Law of Attraction and its relevance

[Reefs]

I see the Law of Attraction (LOA) mentioned in almost every thread. It seems that LOA has an answer to everything and for some it is THE answer to everything.

Abraham say that there is not a shred of evidence in the whole universe to the contrary of LOA, that you can't disprove it. Yeah, could be right that mind can't disprove itself, but it seems that you can't prove it either.

My take on it is that as long as one approaches life in a personal, conceptual way, LOA matters very much. But when this structure of concepts that gives life its personal touch collapses and is seen for what it is, there's suddenly nothing left LOA could refer to.

So, who truly benefits (or at least seems to benefit) from something like LOA and how relevant is it after all? My observation is that those who don't get what they want ditch it very quickly and call it a scam. But those who do get what they want and know the laws of the universe inside out and practice them religiously ultimately get bored with it sooner or later. So in either case it's not THE answer.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by Reefs

I see the Law of Attraction (LOA) mentioned in almost every thread. It seems that LOA has an answer to everything and for some it is THE answer to everything.

Abraham say that there is not a shred of evidence in the whole universe to the contrary of LOA, that you can't disprove it. Yeah, could be right that mind can't disprove itself, but it seems that you can't prove it either.

My take on it is that as long as one approaches life in a personal, conceptual way, LOA matters very much. But when this structure of concepts that gives life its personal touch collapses and is seen for what it is, there's suddenly nothing left LOA could refer to.

So, who truly benefits (or at least seems to benefit) from something like LOA and how relevant is it after all? My observation is that those who don't get what they want ditch it very quickly and call it a scam. But those who do get what they want and know the laws of the universe inside out and practice them religiously ultimately get bored with it sooner or later. So in either case it's not THE answer.

If LoA works with some thoughts, some desires and some intentions, what happens with all the rest of our thoughts, desires and intentions?

[zeitgeist]

What is your purpose in life? If it is about getting things, than the LoA is your way. If it is about creating things then the LoA is your way. If it is about merging with the One, then it is about getting ever purer in intention, thought and deed, and then the LoA is also your Way.

To Maguru question, if thought and deed do not match, your thoughts will probably create something somewhere. And given that this creation merges with the stuff so many others dream up, it is likely quite powerful in the aggregate.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Reefs

It seems that LOA has an answer to everything and for some it is THE answer to everything.

Spiritual principles have that curious quality.

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Maguru

If LoA works with some thoughts, some desires and some intentions, what happens with all the rest of our thoughts, desires and intentions?

You could assume that it also works with the rest of your thoughts that way or you could assume that it only SEEMS to work with some thoughts but actually isn't working like all the rest of your thoughts show you. In either case it would be just speculation.

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by zeitgeist

What is your purpose in life? If it is about getting things, than the LoA is your way. If it is about creating things then the LoA is your way. If it is about merging with the One, then it is about getting ever purer in intention, thought and deed, and then the LoA is also your Way.

How do you merge with the One? Would there still be a sense of individuality or would that mean the end of you as an individual?

Is the One the universe or is it prior to the universe?

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by VinceG

Spiritual principles have that curious quality.

Well, is LOA a spiritual principle?

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by Reefs

So, who truly benefits (or at least seems to benefit) from something like LOA and how relevant is it after all?

From what I can tell, the relevance of the LoA to an individual is directly proportional to the magnitude of their ego. i.e.,
Big ego = "Everything I want just comes to me, as I am so proficient in the use of LoA techniques."
Not so Big ego = "Meh. Whatever."

My observation is that those who don't get what they want ditch it very quickly and call it a scam. But those who do get what they want and know the laws of the universe inside out and practice them religiously ultimately get bored with it sooner or later. So in either case it's not THE answer.

Ulitmately, I agree with you, Reefs, in that it is not THE answer, but I didn't know there were some who got bored with it.

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by Reefs

How do you merge with the One? Would there still be a sense of individuality or would that mean the end of you as an individual?

Is the One the universe or is it prior to the universe?

Reefs, why are you asking these questions? I thought you were an LoAer?

... but now that you mention it ...

I don't understand how it is that one even needs to "merge with the One." As I understand it, we're already "merged" with the One, merely in our Being. Or, rather, there is no need to "merge," as we already are the One. "Merging" implies separation.

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Beingist

From what I can tell, the relevance of the LoA to an individual is directly proportional to the magnitude of their ego. i.e.,
Big ego = "Everything I want just comes to me, as I am so proficient in the use of LoA techniques."
Not so Big ego = "Meh. Whatever."

There's also a negative kind of big ego, extremely unsuccessful types have that. But they usually call it karma and not LOA.

Ulitmately, I agree with you, Reefs, in that it is not THE answer, but I didn't know there were some who got bored with it.

Everyone will get bored with one's own manifestations over time. So there always have to be new manifestation coming in or at least anticipated to come in.

There always were and are a lot of very successful and very bored people who are following any kind of gurus all over the world. Just hafta take a closer look at the Osho crowd.

[Irisha]

Originally Posted by Beingist

I don't understand how it is that one even needs to "merge with the One." As I understand it, we're already "merged" with the One, merely in our Being. Or, rather, there is no need to "merge," as we already are the One. "Merging" implies separation.

In our Being we are separated from the One. Only by this separation we ARE. When we merge with the One fully and ultimately we die. The One is where we come to when we die. All other states of " merging" with the One are still incomplete merging.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Reefs

Well, is LOA a spiritual principle?

It's all spiritual when you dig deep enough.

[Arz Sra]

Originally Posted by Reefs

There's also a negative kind of big ego, extremely unsuccessful types have that. But they usually call it karma and not LOA.

No, the extremely unsuccessful types do not manage to crawl upto LOA or Karma.. They just lie moaning and groaning about life..

By attributing the cause of something to something , one gets a model to work with something to make it something better.

The extreme ones do not get upto there.. Only those who have something left in them do.

Everyone will get bored with one's own manifestations over time. So there always have to be new manifestation coming in or at least anticipated to come in.

hmmm.. The evidence stand otherwise.. I've never seen anyone grow tired of LOA.

[Irisha]

Originally Posted by Arz Sra

hmmm.. The evidence stand otherwise.. I've never seen anyone grow tired of LOA.

What Reefs means by "tired of LOA" is being tired with the manifestations already made. More and more new manifestations will be needed not to feel bored.

[VinceG]

In order for LoA to be relevant to you you have to want something. In order to want something, you have to not be over-invested in this Eastern-infected place where mind tricks itself into believing it doesn't exist, and so doesn't want anything and is one with everything. If your thinking is addled in such a way, then LoA will indeed seem pointless, as will everything else.

If instead you live in the regular world with everyone else, with desires and ideas and conceptions and beliefs, you'll find in the LoA a wonderful spiritual lesson and tool. The lesson comes from using the tool. The lesson is simply in how to order one's thoughts in a sufficient fashion to bring about a desired manifestation. Thought is really the only thing that exists, so therefore anything that is accomplished is done so with use of the LoA.

If you fail to bring about a desired outcome, that simply means that you haven't sufficiently ordered your thoughts enough. Perhaps you don't believe the outcome is possible. I've manifested parking spaces, pretty reliably. I do this through a trick of belief. I believe that it's possible to switch timelines seamlessly and effortlessly.

So when I want a parking space to open up, I think to the universe, "I'd like to switch to a timeline where a close space opens up so I can park there." Now, while I believe that timeline switching is possible, I don't have the direct experience of doing so. But I believe that spirit guides can and often do such things for their charges.

So instead of doing it directly, I ask my spirit guides. Now, sometimes they don't play ball. I believe now that this is because I either a) haven't made my desire clear enough for my intelligent spirit guides to understand or b) they're tired, and need some energy to perk back up. Well, with parking spaces, a) is covered, so I believe it's b). So whenever I do such a manifestation, I raise my energy level, and offer it up to my guides to feed off of so as to power the manifestation. Being an energetic powerhouse means I don't even feel this leeching process.

Once I made these refinements to my I/M process, my ability to manifest parking spaces has been vastly increased. I've also used it to make it so a particular person was working when I showed up. (she told me she didn't normally work that shift but was asked to by a coworker)

Does it matter if you believe in switching timelines, spirit guides, energy level requirements? No, I think you could probably just believe it works, and the belief will be enough. But my skeptic's mind wouldn't accept such a jump.

Now, 5 years ago, I didn't believe in I/M, spirit guides, switching timelines, or any of this stuff. So if you'd have handed me a bunch of visualization guides, my ability to manifest would have been quite low. I would have had to start where I could believe, or at least trick myself into believing, that a magical manifestation had taken place.

And indeed, when I first started reading accounts of I/M, Steve's accounts, I explained it away with the survivorship bias, that he was only taking into account his successes and not his failures. And so my manifestations remained within the province of blind luck. At the time I took the train to work. I wanted the train doors to stop in front of me rather than me having to wait. It happened, slightly more than luck would account for.

It wasn't until I could force myself to believe that a magical I/M process was possible that I could start to really manipulate the LoA in such a fashion. And it wound up being much easier than I could imagine. The manifestations were stilted at first, where I had to learn how to define and clarify a desire into something that could be manifested. Abstract desires without a way to concretely manifest tend to remain abstract, though there are exceptions.

In the end, it turned out that I/M is the way in which humans act as Creators, effortlessly creating existence just as God created the world. Gross material manipulations, I've heard are possible. I've read stories of how people have built entire structures with no labor, by themselves. The more I witness of the universe, the less implausible that seems.

[taylor]

Originally Posted by Reefs

Abraham say that there is not a shred of evidence in the whole universe to the contrary of LOA, that you can't disprove it.

Sure there is. They're called delusional disorders. That's pretty solid evidence that beliefs aren't going to arrange the world in a magical way without limitation. Of course, when you add in SR to LOA like Steve does, then yes you can't disprove it.

I guess I'm missing the point of your post though. The LOA stuff is never going to fill you up. As long as you have an ego you are suffering and discontented on some level, even if it is subtle and hidden from awareness. Ego IS suffering and discontent. Even if you got LOA working perfectly and could manifest instantly, would it really fulfill you long-term? It's like turning on God mode in a video game. You quickly get bored and ask "What's the point?"

Thus the phrase:
"There are two tragedies in life. One is not getting what you want and the other is getting it."

[alphamind]

Though I'm not an intentional manifestor, I can see what manifests in my reality, and it is usually my soul's desires for the greater good that manifest. IMO a person can egoistically want to be rich all they want, but if that desire isn't in alignment with the soul's desire - if the soul isn't ready to experience prosperity at that level - it isn't going to manifest simply because the ego thinks that's what it needs. The higher self always knows best and always brings into our reality what's needed for the greater good.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by zeitgeist

What is your purpose in life? If it is about getting things, than the LoA is your way. If it is about creating things then the LoA is your way. If it is about merging with the One, then it is about getting ever purer in intention, thought and deed, and then the LoA is also your Way.

To Maguru question, if thought and deed do not match,

I don't understand what you mean by this. If you take action arising from your thought where does LOA fit in?

your thoughts will probably create something somewhere. And given that this creation merges with the stuff so many others dream up, it is likely quite powerful in the aggregate.

Exactly, and not running according to set intentions only. There are many more factors to it. However, I do use it but not in acquisition of anything, or the creation of anything, outside of myself. It's purely personal and it works every time.

[nothuman]

Originally Posted by Reefs

My take on it is that as long as one approaches life in a personal, conceptual way, LOA matters very much. But when this structure of concepts that gives life its personal touch collapses and is seen for what it is, there's suddenly nothing left LOA could refer to.

That is my experience. When illusions fall away, and inveribly they do, there is not one cell left that would wish to involve itself at the level of LOA.
That is not a put down of LOA, just an observation that once beyond the point of decorating or fixing up ones life there is a realization that it is simply the mind self serving itself. At least this is what I have found.

[Frisky]

Originally Posted by zeitgeist

What is your purpose in life? If it is about getting things, than the LoA is your way. If it is about creating things then the LoA is your way. If it is about merging with the One, then it is about getting ever purer in intention, thought and deed, and then the LoA is also your Way.

To Maguru question, if thought and deed do not match, your thoughts will probably create something somewhere. And given that this creation merges with the stuff so many others dream up, it is likely quite powerful in the aggregate

This ^

[Acting Like Godot]

To ask "What is the point of LOA?" is like asking "What is the point of God" or "What is the point of the universe?" or "What is the point of reality?".

It is just what it is.

Any point you see in it must come from yourself. There are all kinds of different ways that people can treat "God", "the universe" or "reality" - so it is, with the LOA.

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

To ask "What is the point of LOA?" is like asking "What is the point of God" or "What is the point of the universe?" or "What is the point of reality?".

It is just what it is.

Any point you see in it must come from yourself. There are all kinds of different ways that people can treat "God", "the universe" or "reality" - so it is, with the LOA.

If you are referring to the OP then let me clarify that if you ask what's the point of LOA you will get answers that show you what it can do for you or you can do with it. That wasn't the question. The question was about how relevant is it, which is more asking about who sees a point in it than what the point really is.

And my take on it was that only for content obsessed entities it can be relevant. If content matters to you, then LOA matters to you.

[Acting Like Godot]

What exactly is a not-content-obsessed entity? Do my garden plants count as such entities?

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

What exactly is a not-content-obsessed entity? Do my garden plants count as such entities?

Do they intentionally practice IM/LOA?

[Acting Like Godot]

I suspect that they have desires. Sometimes they want more sun, sometimes they want more water.

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

I suspect that they have desires. Sometimes they want more sun, sometimes they want more water.

What do you see them do?

[Acting Like Godot]

Oh, there are many subtle aspects to their behaviour. A good gardener knows.

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Oh, there are many subtle aspects to their behaviour. A good gardener knows.

OK, what I see them do is turning towards a light source.

I see the plant, I see where they turn to, I see the light source is where they turn to. That's it for me.

For you it probably doesn't stop there. You need a reason. So what do you conclude? That they want light?

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

I suspect that they have desires. Sometimes they want more sun, sometimes they want more water.

Even the wabbit that eats your carrots doesn't want in the way you do. Life moves more simply in it's essence.

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by Arcanum

Even the wabbit that eats your carrots doesn't want in the way you do. Life moves more simply in it's essence.

I suspect my cat spends a lot of time trying to figure out how to make me give him more Party Mix.