Is it possible to "shut down" the mind?

[spacedout]

Is it possible to "shut down" the mind completely and have no thoughts at all, while still alive of course?

[nothuman]

Originally Posted by spacedout

Is it possible to "shut down" the mind completely and have no thoughts at all, while still alive of course?

Sure, alcohol and drugs will reduce you to the state of being below thought or sub thought but I don't recommend it.
You can also achieve stillness through meditation for short periods. What I have come to is abiding with the mind rather than resisting it. Let it do its thing, its going to anyway just stand to one side.
If you find a way to shut it down completely....let me know

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by spacedout

Is it possible to "shut down" the mind completely and have no thoughts at all, while still alive of course?

hello, how you goin? Where are you now on your journey I wonder? Have you had a change of mind, are you looking for more clarity or are you still going to point to pure awareness but from a different direction? Just my thoughts though, no offense intended. I'm just curious, regards Paula

[ButterflyWoman]

Originally Posted by spacedout

Is it possible to "shut down" the mind completely and have no thoughts at all, while still alive of course?

It depends on how we're defining "thoughts", I suspect. I do, indeed, have periods where there are no particular thoughts as I generally think of them, but only observation. First time it happened, I was both surprised and a little freaked out, because the inside of my head has always been such a noisy place! Unfortunately, the moment I realised "Hey, I'm not thinking!" I started thinking again....

Is it possible to be in that state permanently? Honestly, I don't know. I'd like to think so. (Ha. Think. *sigh* So hard to escape that... )

[taylor]

Yes.

Underlying thoughts there is an energy of the desire to think. You surrender this energy directly which will cause your thoughts to dissolve more and more quickly until only a formless energy, the energy of desire to think is left.

Keep surrendering this and it will bring up the terror of dying, because thoughts keep ego identity in place. If you can keep surrendering and not give in to the terror, you will experience your death as ego and afterwards your mind will be silent, I'm told permanently.

I personally got to the pure energy stage, met with the intense terror and chickened out. Don't yet have the courage to try again. YMMV but I've gone to the terror stage twice so I know it works at least to that point. Both times it took me a couple of hours of doing nothing but surrendering thought energy to reach the terror.

Consult Eye of the I - Chapter 7: THE MIND for more info.

[VinceG]

I saw this article of this guy who got brain-damaged and lost the ability to use language. His loss wasn't total, he had a short period of time every day where he could speak and write. He described his condition as being completely free of thought. He just acted without thinking. Eventually his condition became total.

[Moriarty]

Originally Posted by spacedout

Is it possible to "shut down" the mind completely and have no thoughts at all, while still alive of course?

Is there are reason you don't want to be in this world, or is this just a question of curiosity?

[taylor]

Originally Posted by Moriarty

Is there are reason you don't want to be in this world, or is this just a question of curiosity?

Ever read Zen Buddhism, advaita, etc? The whole goal is to transcend the world and enter the Void / Buddha-Mind / Non-duality.

[Moriarty]

Originally Posted by taylor

Ever read Zen Buddhism, advaita, etc? The whole goal is to transcend the world and enter the Void / Buddha-Mind / Non-duality.

I dont agree with some of those ideas. The idea is not to be 'in' the world, but 'of' it. Which to me suggests living life to its fullest while in the state of acknowledging what its truly all about.

To me, its a pointless exercise to be here, now, yet feverishly work your butt off towards not wanting to be here. If you want to stay in the Void, then why bother experiencing the human state in the first place...just so you can mind-escape it?

[taylor]

Originally Posted by Moriarty

I dont agree with some of those ideas. The idea is not to be 'in' the world, but 'of' it. Which to me suggests living life to its fullest while in the state of acknowledging what its truly all about.

Fair enough to disagree. The phrase is actually the reverse of what you quoted, maybe an accident. It's "In the world but not of it".

Originally Posted by Moriarty

To me, its a pointless exercise to be here, now, yet feverishly work your butt off towards not wanting to be here. If you want to stay in the Void, then why bother experiencing the human state in the first place...just so you can mind-escape it?

You're not here now. That's an illusion called "naive realism" in modern philosophy.

I don't subscribe to the new age notion that we were infinite before our birth and then decided to become a human to experience it like a fun trip. That's something that sounds nice on the surface but can't stand up to scrutiny. I think if you examine the notion of you being infinite and choosing something linear and specific, they're mutually exclusive. Meaning if you are infinite, there's nothing to choose, no "one" to choose "it", and no motive to do so.

I'm a nondualist and believe that the void is simply the underlying truth and duality is a mental fantasy loop propped up by its own desire for itself. When I examine my mind at its limits I find this to be the case.

If you've ever caught glimpses of high states, you'll know why someone would work feverishly for them, even though the process doesn't have to be uncomfortable and can instead give you lots of joy and peace. Even a high state that isn't enlightenment is better than anything you could ever hope to get in this world. Plus there's really not a whole lot of other options. Mental/Emotional/Physical goals have so many limitations they're certainly not worth making part of your "life's purpose" or anything. All that is just passing scenery that you can't hold on to.

[nothuman]

Evil Moriarty and the British Bulldog sorry just an observation...please continue

[Moriarty]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by taylor

Fair enough to disagree. The phrase is actually the reverse of what you quoted, maybe an accident. It's "In the world but not of it".

Pardon..my misquote fault. Thanks for picking that up.

I don't subscribe to the new age notion that we were infinite before our birth and then decided to become a human to experience it like a fun trip.

...and neither do i! I was referring to the notion of escapism through the mind. As for new-agey stuff...Ive seen a few of your posts about astral planes. So how do you excuse this as being more truthful then the idea that we are not here now? I never said it was an illusion. The only illusion is to believe in illusion.

That's something that sounds nice on the surface but can't stand up to scrutiny. I think if you examine the notion of you being infinite and choosing something linear and specific, they're mutually exclusive. Meaning if you are infinite, there's nothing to choose, no "one" to choose "it", and no motive to do so.

So then whats your argument towards those believing that enlightenment is something to be sought after? That we dont already have it? That those who seek to zen into some void they believe is the only hang-out to nirvana is any different to your hanging out in astral planes?

If you've ever caught glimpses of high states, you'll know why someone would work feverishly for them, even though the process doesn't have to be uncomfortable and can instead give you lots of joy and peace.

Ive been there and back and dont choose to talk about it because its poo-pooed till experienced. When you get there all this blah blah is dropped and means nought...the only thing you're left with is a belly-laugh.

[taylor]

Originally Posted by Moriarty

...and neither do i! I was referring to the notion of escapism through the mind. As for new-agey stuff...Ive seen a few of your posts about astral planes. So how do you excuse this as being more truthful then the idea that we are not here now? I never said it was an illusion. The only illusion is to believe in illusion.

Good catch. The astral plane stuff is referring to material illusions as well and it's just as false. You're correct. That's all practical talk which isn't true. But that was a conversation about the afterlife, not enlightenment or absolute truth.

Originally Posted by Moriarty

So then whats your argument towards those believing that enlightenment is something to be sought after? That we dont already have it? That those who seek to zen into some void they believe is the only hang-out to nirvana is any different to your hanging out in astral planes?

The descriptions of enlightenment I've read are remarkably similar in quality and clear so it's quite easy for me to tell if my mind is there or not. One good indicator is if I'm asking the question "Am I enlightened?" I'm not. Even the beginning non-dual states present themselves as complete, with nothing lacking. Heck even some emotional states seem like that if we're not paying much attention.

Our True Nature is of course already perfect with nothing more to be done, that's true. Maybe that's what you're talking about us already being enlightened. However, our minds are still stuck on relative illusions (thoughts/images/duality) and therefore can't see this Truth underneath. Until the mind sees past relativity, "I'm enlightened" remains just another thought, just another relative illusion blocking our mind from Truth.

Originally Posted by Moriarty

Ive been there and back and dont choose to talk about it because its poo-pooed till experienced. When you get there all this blah blah is dropped and means nought...the only thing you're left with is a belly-laugh.

I don't know what you experienced. There are all sorts of states and I've only scratched the surface. For myself, after going deep with this, nothing external or superficial could ever satisfy me again -- It could never reach that deep or go that far. Perhaps I overstated it earlier because I'm sure everyone is different, but I'm irresistibly drawn to this endeavor. To each his own.

[Moriarty]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by taylor

Good catch. The astral plane stuff is referring to material illusions as well and it's just as false. You're correct. That's all practical talk which isn't true. But that was a conversation about the afterlife, not enlightenment or absolute truth.

okay..thats cool then.

The descriptions of enlightenment I've read are remarkably similar in quality and clear so it's quite easy for me to tell if my mind is there or not. One good indicator is if I'm asking the question "Am I enlightened?" I'm not. Even the beginning non-dual states present themselves as complete, with nothing lacking. Heck even some emotional states seem like that if we're not paying much attention.

mmm...i dont do stages of if that's what your meaning here? My point is..we never left enlightenment (gees i hate that term) but then i see you address it under this.

Our True Nature is of course already perfect with nothing more to be done, that's true. Maybe that's what you're talking about us already being enlightened.

On the same page here.

However, our minds are still stuck on relative illusions (thoughts/images/duality) and therefore can't see this Truth underneath. Until the mind sees past relativity, "I'm enlightened" remains just another thought, just another relative illusion blocking our mind from Truth.

To me enlightenment is a man-made gold-mine to be sought after. Yes, i agree its an illusion. Have you ever seen a Buddha Monk sit silently with a permanent smile and spurting forth a little belly laugh here and there? There's a good reason for that and its not about his believing he's enlightened hehe

I don't know what you experienced. There are all sorts of states and I've only scratched the surface. For myself, after going deep with this, nothing external or superficial could ever satisfy me again -- It could never reach that deep or go that far. Perhaps I overstated it earlier because I'm sure everyone is different, but I'm irresistibly drawn to this endeavor. To each his own.

Ill just say here...the moment you think you have it, is the moment you realise you have nothing.

Cheers

[RonSouther]

The other day I woke up from sleep and felt like I couldn't get my mind in gear, then I realized that I need to enjoy this moment where my thoughts were shut down, and not moving like rush hour traffic. So I looked into that relative silence (some thoughts were there) and enjoyed the paralysis.

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by spacedout

Is it possible to "shut down" the mind completely and have no thoughts at all, while still alive of course?

In all honesty, I don't think so. Perhaps true enlightenment might be a completely mindless state, but even then, I doubt it.

This is not to say that mind can't, at times, be quiet, nor that we don't have the capacity to quiet the mind through meditation, or contemplation. But to shut it down completely, once and for all? No.

Just about every one of the sages and authors I've read has discussed being a "witness" to thought, through non-identification. This, to me, means that the mind cannot help but be active, it's just that we don't have to pay attention to it.

[ChrisGinsburg]

Who is it that wants to shut down the mind?

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by ChrisGinsburg

Who is it that wants to shut down the mind?

Who wants to know? hehehe

[taylor]

Originally Posted by Maguru

Who wants to know? hehehe

lol.

[evolutionarypathways]

Originally Posted by spacedout

Is it possible to "shut down" the mind completely and have no thoughts at all, while still alive of course?

Yes, definitely possible. Although you can't actually shut it down yourself; it needs to happen to you. This is a temporary condition though, at least as far as I know.

If you are talking about a permanent shutting down of the mind then I don't think it's likely. I think that so long as you have a body and you need to function in the world, you will need a mind to go along with it.

[superfoodist]

Not only is it possible, it's actually not that hard to begin putting "thought stopping" into action.

Read "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle to figure out how to do this. It's a very easy read. He basically explains a method of *observing* your thoughts instead of identifying with your mind, and seeing your mind as *you*. You have to be the *watcher* of the mind instead.

It's hard for me to explain, but he does it perfectly. I highly recommend checking it out. It will solve your problem without doubt.

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by spacedout

Is it possible to "shut down" the mind completely
and have no thoughts at all, while still alive of course?

Yes, either
1. Hypnosis... you gotta be 'taught' by another how... while you are in that state
or
2. POISONing both via Alcohol, or
Anesthesia gets you there faster/instantaneously.


Personally, I prefer having both my mind-resources fully Accessible to me, at all times.

[Arz Sra]

Originally Posted by spacedout

Is it possible to "shut down" the mind completely and have no thoughts at all, while still alive of course?

No.

Even During sleep, we cannot be sure if the mind does shut down.. May be its just that we are unable to retrieve memories of it later on.. so, most probably you cannot shut the mind off and still be alive...

[taylor]

Originally Posted by Arz Sra

No.

Even During sleep, we cannot be sure if the mind does shut down.. May be its just that we are unable to retrieve memories of it later on.. so, most probably you cannot shut the mind off and still be alive...

The famous mystic Nisargadatta Maharaj when asked about the state of deep sleep, he would say that he was still aware, but that he was aware of oblivion. That while we who are identified with the contents of consciousness go into deep sleep we think we are totally "gone," he claims that he identifies with awareness itself which is present all the time without interruption. This would also be consistent with modern science which can measure brain activity during deep sleep.

But, the OP was talking about just not thinking thoughts, which is something else.

[ChrisGinsburg]

Originally Posted by superfoodist

Not only is it possible, it's actually not that hard to begin putting "thought stopping" into action.

Read "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle to figure out how to do this. It's a very easy read. He basically explains a method of *observing* your thoughts instead of identifying with your mind, and seeing your mind as *you*. You have to be the *watcher* of the mind instead.

It's hard for me to explain, but he does it perfectly. I highly recommend checking it out. It will solve your problem without doubt.

He isn't actually showing you a method so much as poking you to take a deeper look. The difficulty with having a method to observe your thoughts is that you have to continually remember to observe them. Thoughts are not inherently a problem. You wouldn't try to stop the thought that reminds you to be the observer would you?

[taylor]

Originally Posted by ChrisGinsburg

He isn't actually showing you a method so much as poking you to take a deeper look. The difficulty with having a method to observe your thoughts is that you have to continually remember to observe them. Thoughts are not inherently a problem. You wouldn't try to stop the thought that reminds you to be the observer would you?

When I was doing the process listed above anyway a large % of the thoughts that I surrendered the energy of were along the lines of "surrender the energy. give up thoughts. that's not you. that's a distraction." They might be nice Buddhisty thoughts but they're still bogus because they're of a dualistic structure.

[ChrisGinsburg]

Originally Posted by taylor

When I was doing the process listed above anyway a large % of the thoughts that I surrendered the energy of were along the lines of "surrender the energy. give up thoughts. that's not you. that's a distraction." They might be nice Buddhisty thoughts but they're still bogus because they're of a dualistic structure.

Yep. It's merely more authority being given to some thoughts and not others. The thoughts that are occurring to prompt you to be the observer are ignored or even encouraged while you claim victory over the thoughts you don't like. It's mind dividing up mind and saying one part is not mind watching mind.

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by ChrisGinsburg

It's mind dividing up mind and saying one part is not mind watching mind.

Chris,

That is something I wanted to say in the past a few days.

If the mind cannot be stopped and the mind creates all sorts of illusions, you cannot but live with your illusions. What is your take on this?

[ChrisGinsburg]

Originally Posted by Thunder

Chris,

That is something I wanted to say in the past a few days.

If the mind cannot be stopped and the mind creates all sorts of illusions, you cannot but live with your illusions. What is your take on this?

Mind isn't an entity to be stopped in the first place. Thoughts are arising and falling all the time. Some of them you seem to like, some you don't. Thoughts don't have any power until you connect and identify with them. If you had the thought that perhaps you are actually a dung beetle, it would simply seem ridiculous and disappear as fast as it arose without ever seeming to be a problem. The thoughts you deem as more important and possibly true are the ones that tend to stick around and torture you. Ultimately, they're all just thoughts, nothing more. The illusion of trying to organize, control and suppress thoughts is what keeps the illusions from being seen clearly in the first place. In the end it's all about just seeing things clearly and not about trying to beat down or control illusions.

[BillieAnn]

Originally Posted by spacedout

Is it possible to "shut down" the mind completely and have no thoughts at all, while still alive of course?

It is possible only to make with one the part of your mind to think that you has shut down your mind!