Hell

[Manuel]

Hell
A big round ball, filled with big egos

Wandering to nowhere

tramping on the little guy

And inflating themselves



It´s all about money

It´s all about importance

It´s all about sex

It´s all about nothing



Are you afraid to go to hell?

Don´t worry

You´re already there!

[desertrat]

That is a "hell " of a thing to say . As you said we all create our own "hell" , or heaven also . desert rat

[Manuel]

Originally Posted by desertrat

That is a "hell " of a thing to say . As you said we all create our own "hell" , or heaven also . desert rat

I never said we create our own hell or heaven. I was talking about the state of the whole planet, of humanity in general. You may believe that it's completely in your power to determine whether your life will be hell or heaven, but if you look at the majority of people around you, can you honestly say that most people lead happy lives? If you look past the facade that most people put up in their daily lives I think you will find that true happiness is extremely rare! I have certainly never met anyone who convinced me that he/she was. Sure, lots of people will TELL you that they are, but that is no proof whatsoever. It's easy to say ANYTHING.

[Beingist]

The hell you say!

[zeitgeist]

Let's take it one step at a time. If you are able to avoid the traps of lust, money and fame in a proactive way, that is, without simply repressing these desires, humanity will already have taken a giant step forward. What do you think?

[Manuel]

Originally Posted by zeitgeist

Let's take it one step at a time. If you are able to avoid the traps of lust, money and fame in a proactive way, that is, without simply repressing these desires, humanity will already have taken a giant step forward. What do you think?

I think you are right. But how many people do you know who can actually DO this?

[zeitgeist]

Originally Posted by Manuel

I think you are right. But how many people do you know who can actually DO this?

I am working on my spiritual path,and I'm sure I am in good company

[Apopohis Reject]

Originally Posted by Manuel

I never said we create our own hell or heaven.... can you honestly say that most people lead happy lives?

Originally Posted by zeitgeist

I am working on my spiritual path,and I'm sure I am in good company

Who said that leading a 'happy life' ... is not (itself) 'Hell'?

What is your definition of 'Hell' and/or 'Heaven'? what is your definition of 'spiritual'? What is your definition of 'happy'? Indeed, what is your definition of 'life'?

There seems to be a great many points made on this forum that are based upon little more than an intrinsic list of subjective, mismatched, illogical, indeed nebulous definitions, yet such indeterminate mindlessness really shouldn't be acceptable on a forum "for smart people".

What I mean is - such a chaotic, asanine, short-cut approach to communication and supposedly 'getting on with each other', may appear to be the norm in today's world where self-inflation of the ego seems to be the only reason to converse, yet I would have expected it a worthy pursuit to - as much as possible, remedy such self-serving negligence within a forum such as this.

I'm not aiming this post to single out anyone in particular here, and certainly not manuel or Zeitgeist, but please let's make an effort to generally employ a few more neurons than we might see exhibited around lesser arenas.

For general consideration, is all.

[desertrat]

We all create our reality , most do it unconsciously . Its all that crap that is traped in there subconscious mind that creates the "hell" . If one wants to live in more of a heaven , then they should do the work to reslove all that repressed crap. desert rat

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by desertrat

We all create our reality , most do it unconsciously . Its all that crap that is traped in there subconscious mind that creates the "hell" . If one wants to live in more of a heaven , then they should do the work to reslove all that repressed crap. desert rat

+ 1

"truth at all costs"

[DarkTears]

I was gonna post something earlier but I forgot, but I think it was that isnt earth hell already,........I think I might have remembered, anyways I think that Heaven is actually a peaceful life and hell to be a bad life.......and I just confused myself yet again...... -w-'

[desertrat]

Many years ago I read this book on the astral realms . The book said there is an area on the astral plane where people have created for them selfs to live after death a hell . They believed so strongly in hell and knew they would go there after death . It also said people had created for them selfs a place where they had schools , churches , banks , stores , ect, the same as they had when alive . LIving in denial as it were . desert rat

[irfan]

Bp Muhammad Subuh Sumohadiwidjojo, the founder of Subud, claimed to have descended into Hell on his spiritual explorations. He noted that there were a lot of devout people there, and most of them seemed to believe that they were actually in Heaven.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Manuel

If you look past the facade that most people put up in their daily lives I think you will find that true happiness is extremely rare!

Nevertheless, I think that there is a very big space, between true happiness and hell.

[DarkTears]

What is true happiness?....................

[Manuel]

Originally Posted by DarkTears

What is true happiness?....................

True happiness is getting up each morning and feeling like you can't wait to do it all over again. To live another day and experience your life as a human being.

It doesn't mean that you won't experience any pain but that you are excited about LIVING and EXPERIENCING it all. And I don't anymore. Everywhere I look any option I see ahead of me only shows me pain so I no longer look forward to getting up each day and having to go through whatever lies ahead.

[pianoperformer]

Originally Posted by Manuel

I never said we create our own hell or heaven. I was talking about the state of the whole planet, of humanity in general. You may believe that it's completely in your power to determine whether your life will be hell or heaven, but if you look at the majority of people around you, can you honestly say that most people lead happy lives? If you look past the facade that most people put up in their daily lives I think you will find that true happiness is extremely rare! I have certainly never met anyone who convinced me that he/she was. Sure, lots of people will TELL you that they are, but that is no proof whatsoever. It's easy to say ANYTHING.

I don't know, I'm pretty happy. Sure there are things that I'd like to be different, but my life is fulfilling overall. Every day is exciting for me, and I can't wait to get up in the morning. Sometimes I'm so excited, I don't want to have to sleep.

[pianoperformer]

Originally Posted by Manuel

True happiness is getting up each morning and feeling like you can't wait to do it all over again. To live another day and experience your life as a human being.

It doesn't mean that you won't experience any pain but that you are excited about LIVING and EXPERIENCING it all. And I don't anymore. Everywhere I look any option I see ahead of me only shows me pain so I no longer look forward to getting up each day and having to go through whatever lies ahead.

Well now we found the secret. You see the world as hell, because you're creating your own hell.

Do you know that you don't have to do that anymore?

[Manuel]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

Well now we found the secret. You see the world as hell, because you're creating your own hell.

Do you know that you don't have to do that anymore?

If you read my previous entry correctly you would have seen that I said I see nothing but pain everywhere I look! Don't you think I've TRIED to find a path that will give me pleasure? I have been trying to improve my life for the past 15 years and it has only made things worse. So I am sick and tired of people insinuating that it's all my own doing! I DID take responsibility! I am not blaming anyone else, I am just saying that I have been trying to figure out how to feel better and nothing has worked. So how in God's name am I supposed to have any faith if my life is only getting worse every year? What am I supposed to base this faith ON?

People that say "just be patient, things will work out in the end" are just reciting platitudes because they have nothing better to say! Things do NOT always work out well in the end. What about all the people in the world who die homeless, broke, sad and lonely? I do not believe God is some cosmic babysitter who will fix our lives if we just sit and don't DO anything to improve it ourselves. But I have so many problems that I don't know HOW to fix! I have been trying everything I can think of and nothing is working! What am I supposed to do after that? Just have some blind faith that SOMEHOW things will work out? I cannot have faith in anything if I have nothing to BASE it on.

[pianoperformer]

Originally Posted by Manuel

If you read my previous entry correctly you would have seen that I said I see nothing but pain everywhere I look! Don't you think I've TRIED to find a path that will give me pleasure? I have been trying to improve my life for the past 15 years and it has only made things worse. So I am sick and tired of people insinuating that it's all my own doing! I DID take responsibility! I am not blaming anyone else, I am just saying that I have been trying to figure out how to feel better and nothing has worked. So how in God's name am I supposed to have any faith if my life is only getting worse every year? What am I supposed to base this faith ON?

People that say "just be patient, things will work out in the end" are just reciting platitudes because they have nothing better to say! Things do NOT always work out well in the end. What about all the people in the world who die homeless, broke, sad and lonely? I do not believe God is some cosmic babysitter who will fix our lives if we just sit and don't DO anything to improve it ourselves. But I have so many problems that I don't know HOW to fix! I have been trying everything I can think of and nothing is working! What am I supposed to do after that? Just have some blind faith that SOMEHOW things will work out? I cannot have faith in anything if I have nothing to BASE it on.

I know it is hard to see, but you did create the problems you are experiencing in your life, and you can choose to stop creating them at any time. Just because you don't see a way out doesn't mean that there isn't a way.

It is not about feeling better. It's about letting go and just being. Nothing can make you suffer unless you give it permission to.

[Manuel]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

I know it is hard to see, but you did create the problems you are experiencing in your life, and you can choose to stop creating them at any time. Just because you don't see a way out doesn't mean that there isn't a way.

It is not about feeling better. It's about letting go and just being. Nothing can make you suffer unless you give it permission to.

This is incredibly paternalizing because you don't even know what my problems ARE! This is exactly the kind of attitude I was referring to that seems to abound in this forum. Almost everyone here has an immediate opinion on everything, even when they even don't know what the person's problem is!

Don't bother responding to this thread anymore, I won't read it.

[pianoperformer]

Originally Posted by Manuel

This is incredibly paternalizing because you don't even know what my problems ARE! This is exactly the kind of attitude I was referring to that seems to abound in this forum. Almost everyone here has an immediate opinion on everything, even when they even don't know what the person's problem is!

All problems are the same. They are all self-created. I've seen no evidence to the contrary in all the healing work I have done.

Of course sometimes we want to pretend that we didn't create the problems, and even that someone else created them. We take reality seriously, instead of allowing it to turn us back onto ourselves to reflect.

Originally Posted by Manuel

Don't bother responding to this thread anymore, I won't read it.

If that's what you want, that's fine.

[Manuel]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

All problems are the same. They are all self-created. I've seen no evidence to the contrary in all the healing work I have done.

Of course sometimes we want to pretend that we didn't create the problems, and even that someone else created them. We take reality seriously, instead of allowing it to turn us back onto ourselves to reflect.



If that's what you want, that's fine.

why do you respond to this thread when I just said I wouldn't read it? I know I am responding to it now, but that is because I KNEW you would ignore my previous comment! Please enlighten me, for entertainment sake.

[pianoperformer]

Originally Posted by Manuel

why do you respond to this thread when I just said I wouldn't read it? I know I am responding to it now, but that is because I KNEW you would ignore my previous comment! Please enlighten me, for entertainment sake.

I figured you had an element of interest, even if you hate what I'm saying. If it didn't strike a chord so close to you, you would not react in the way you have.

[Manuel]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

I figured you had an element of interest, even if you hate what I'm saying. If it didn't strike a chord so close to you, you would not react in the way you have.

I don't hate what you're saying, I just think it's stupid.

[pianoperformer]

Originally Posted by Manuel

I don't hate what you're saying, I just think it's stupid.

Exactly.

[Manuel]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

Exactly.

Why do you need to have the last word? Just leave this thread alone and go preach somewhere else. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

[Manuel]

Oh, by the way. If this behavior warrants a ban, feel free.

[Apopohis Reject]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

I don't know, I'm pretty happy. Sure there are things that I'd like to be different, but my life is fulfilling overall. Every day is exciting for me, and I can't wait to get up in the morning. Sometimes I'm so excited, I don't want to have to sleep.

Well pp, have look at that - you've just (perhaps inadvertently) provided your definition (albeit a short version) of 'happy'. You might appreciate how others (such as myself) now have an idea about what you're referencing in future, when for some reason you post the term 'happy'.

See how it works? Definitions are NOT the work of the devil, after all!

[Apopohis Reject]

Originally Posted by Manuel

Oh, by the way. If this behavior warrants a ban, feel free.

I doubt you will need to be banned. Secondly, I've heard it said in the past that oil and water do not mix, and I've witnessed this to be accurate on many occasions.

What this has to do with this discussion, is also an observation I've been a part of many times, such; emotions; an emotionally charged perspective on one side, and Intelligence; argument based upon intellectual discernment on the other - as with oil and water, do not, can not mix.

Generally speaking, when we try to mix the two, things can become heated - when the emotions get excited, and we all know what happens to a heated pot of oil and water, right? It doesn't blend as hoped, but rather boils over and can result in disaster.

I'm no arbiter here and I'm not at all saying that you (Manuel) are invalidated, however pianoperformer, whilst from quite an elevated posture, has been relatively accurate with his observations - as far I can tell. The only individual in the entire world that we can make choices to change, strengthen, improve - our our self.