Affirmations in Meditation a distraction

[redemption]

Meditation is supposed to be about the present moment. To be part of the now.

However, I have used affirmations in the past to help me with day-to-day situations. But does that not take away from what meditation is supposed to be?

[pianoperformer]

It depends on what you want to meditate for. Affirmations may just not fit with that goal.

However, mantras can certainly be used effectively, as a tool to help focus even more.

[redemption]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

It depends on what you want to meditate for. Affirmations may just not fit with that goal.

However, mantras can certainly be used effectively, as a tool to help focus even more.

What is the difference between mantras and affirmations?

Is the former is a prayer while the latter is a personal statement?

[pianoperformer]

Originally Posted by redemption

What is the difference between mantras and affirmations?

Is the former is a prayer while the latter is a personal statement?

Mantras are an object of focus, similar to focusing on the breath.

I see affirmations more as something to say that represent something that you want in your life.

[redemption]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

Mantras are an object of focus, similar to focusing on the breath.

I see affirmations more as something to say that represent something that you want in your life.

Ah,

Thanks. So Mantra's are focus on the object. Very similar to samatha meditation or part of it, I guess.

Thank you very much for clearing that up.

[Reefs]

Meditation itself is a distraction. Like all other practices. Therefore it doesn't really matter what one does or what happens while practicing.

[redemption]

Originally Posted by Reefs

Meditation itself is a distraction. Like all other practices. Therefore it doesn't really matter what one does or what happens while practicing.

Hey,

How is itself a distraction? Is one distracted by the act of meditation itself?

I thought meditation was about being present in the moment. Would love it if you could elaborate.

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by redemption

Hey,

How is itself a distraction? Is one distracted by the act of meditation itself?

I thought meditation was about being present in the moment. Would love it if you could elaborate.

If it would be all about just being in the NOW, then why not just BE in the NOW right now? Why do you need meditation for it? Can being in the now not stand by itself?

[Dallaz]

Originally Posted by Reefs

If it would be all about just being in the NOW, then why not just BE in the NOW right now? Why do you need meditation for it? Can being in the now not stand by itself?

Incorrect. Meditation is not a distraction its a label. using the word is how we communicate being in the "NOW" to each other so to speak, basically the same thing.

Edit:
However meditation is not just used for that:
Presence/being(Doing/thinking nothing)=meditation
focus on a certain thought for extended period=meditation
focus on a mental image for extended period of time=meditation

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Dallaz

Incorrect. Meditation is not a distraction its a label. using the word is how we communicate being in the "NOW" to each other so to speak, basically the same thing.

Edit:
However meditation is not just used for that:
Presence/being(Doing/thinking nothing)=meditation
focus on a certain thought for extended period=meditation
focus on a mental image for extended period of time=meditation

Dear Senior Member,

with the word NOW (in capital letters) I'm referring to something that is prior/beyond the conceptual setting of time. Within the conceptual framework of time there is past, present (now) and future.

If someone wants to be in the NOW, he usually means now, the conceptual present moment. Since the OP is mentioning meditation in combination with affirmations, the now of the OP is clearly within the conceptual framework of time, it's trying to get somewhere. It's within the conceptual realm, the mental loop. Therefore it's a distraction from NOW. NOW has nothing to do with time. It's prior to time.

[Midnite]

Originally Posted by Reefs

Dear Senior Member,

with the word NOW (in capital letters) I'm referring to something that is prior/beyond the conceptual setting of time. Within the conceptual framework of time there is past, present (now) and future.

If someone wants to be in the NOW, he usually means now, the conceptual present moment. Since the OP is mentioning meditation in combination with affirmations, the now of the OP is clearly within the conceptual framework of time, it's trying to get somewhere. It's within the conceptual realm, the mental loop. Therefore it's a distraction from NOW. NOW has nothing to do with time. It's prior to time.

Do you believe you are in the NOW?

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Midnite

Do you believe you are in the NOW?

I'm the master of NOW! I run that place! Hehe.

The thought of "I am in the NOW" can only refer to the now.
NOW is the absence of "I am this or that".

[Midnite]

Originally Posted by Reefs

I'm the master of NOW! I run that place! Hehe.

The thought of "I am in the NOW" can only refer to the now.
NOW is the absence of "I am this or that".

If NOW is the existence behind the construct, may I ask you how it is possible for somebody to be in the NOW, and yet still have a physical human counter-part progressing through linear time? I just thought it would be kind of unnecessary, don't you think so?

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Midnite

If NOW is the existence behind the construct, may I ask you how it is possible for somebody to be in the NOW, and yet still have a physical human counter-part progressing through linear time?

You cannot drag your identity there. There is only pure functioning in the NOW.

I just thought it would be kind of unnecessary, don't you think so?

Unnecessary implies that there is a purpose. What purpose are you referring to?

[Arz Sra]

Originally Posted by Reefs

Dear Senior Member,

with the word NOW (in capital letters) I'm referring to something that is prior/beyond the conceptual setting of time. Within the conceptual framework of time there is past, present (now) and future.

If someone wants to be in the NOW, he usually means now, the conceptual present moment. Since the OP is mentioning meditation in combination with affirmations, the now of the OP is clearly within the conceptual framework of time, it's trying to get somewhere. It's within the conceptual realm, the mental loop. Therefore it's a distraction from NOW. NOW has nothing to do with time. It's prior to time.

Dear Senior Member

[Midnite]

Originally Posted by Reefs

You cannot drag your identity there. There is only pure functioning in the NOW.

What is the benefit by being in the NOW if it does not help your current human identity?

Unnecessary implies that there is a purpose. What purpose are you referring to?

By unnecessary, I was referring to the human body's almost obsoleteness due to the fact that the NOW is so pure all-encompassing. The purpose would therefore be the continued existence in a much more pure and all-encompassing state. Why would something in the NOW need a human counterpart under such a premise?

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Midnite

What is the benefit by being in the NOW if it does not help your current human identity?

Well, it helps the one that thinks it needs an identity to realize that life goes on very well without it. Identity is limiting. Living in the NOW is unconditional living.

By unnecessary, I was referring to the human body's almost obsoleteness due to the fact that the NOW is so pure all-encompassing. The purpose would therefore be the continued existence in a much more pure and all-encompassing state. Why would something in the NOW need a human counterpart under such a premise?

The NOW is not a state, it's not a state of mind. It's not some other dimension for higher evolved entities. It's not about content. It's not like this: when you are in the now you see a human body and when you are in the NOW you suddenly see rainbows and wave forms where you saw a body before.

In the now you see a tree, in the NOW you also see a tree, but it's not assigned the label 'tree' automatically. That doesn't mean that you could not call it a tree when someone would ask you how that thing is called.

It's just pure functioning, without creating a parallel world of concepts that is put over everything like a layer of dust.

And why do you need that human counterpart? Who cares? It's there. That's enough. But could be the result of more focus, more specific focus.

[Midnite]

Originally Posted by Reefs

Well, it helps the one that thinks it needs an identity to realize that life goes on very well without it.

Life may go on with an identity, life may go on without an identity. Knowing that the other exists does not in itself benefit one another. This is not a justifiable reason as to why anything or anybody should even bother being in the NOW.

The NOW is not a state, it's not a state of mind. It's not some other dimension for higher evolved entities. It's not about content.

It sounds as if your concept of the NOW is just well packaged Nothingness.

And why do you need that human counterpart? Who cares?

Considering that every single person on the planet is existing in one, we should care.

If the OP is suggesting the use of affirmations during meditation, then we can assume there is some aspect of his life that he would like to consciously change. By doing nothing, nothing will change. By committing to the NOW, still nothing will change as the NOW is not part of the human identity.

[bodi]

then why not just BE in the NOW right now?

How does one 'just be in the NOW?

It's just pure functioning, without creating a parallel world of concepts that is put over everything like a layer of dust.

So how does one come to this state?

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by bodi

How does one 'just be in the NOW?



So how does one come to this state?

What is meant by being in the now is just non-abidance in the mind; not thinking. If one wanted to not think, he would simply stop, and so if thinking is happening, one clearly doesn't want to be 'in the now'. No amount of practicing will make one want this, though a very controlled and limited experience of now may be created if that's what's actually desired, which it usually is.

In order to maintain the illusion that effort is required such that mind must be involved in the process, a practice is done and it's pretended that this leads to that effortless state. Mind then adds that ability to it's list of accomplishments, ignoring the fact that mind is what has to get out of the way for the practice to succeed.

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Midnite

Life may go on with an identity, life may go on without an identity. Knowing that the other exists does not in itself benefit one another. This is not a justifiable reason as to why anything or anybody should even bother being in the NOW.

Being in the NOW just happens. All you can bother is the now.

It sounds as if your concept of the NOW is just well packaged Nothingness.

What do you mean with 'nothingness'?

Considering that every single person on the planet is existing in one, we should care.

If the OP is suggesting the use of affirmations during meditation, then we can assume there is some aspect of his life that he would like to consciously change. By doing nothing, nothing will change. By committing to the NOW, still nothing will change as the NOW is not part of the human identity.

You cannot commit to the NOW, only to the now. The NOW will get hold of you, not you of the NOW.

Maybe you should explain 'human identity'.

It's like sleep. Do you get hold of sleep or does sleep get hold of you and your identity? How does sleep affect your human identity? I would say not at all since you start in the morning exactly where you stopped the night before. So since there is no change in your human identity, why should anybody bother about sleep?

[Midnite]

Originally Posted by Reefs

Being in the NOW just happens.

You cannot commit to the NOW, only to the now. The NOW will get hold of you, not you of the NOW.

Since the NOW can in no way be initiated by the practitioner, then what determines the NOW taking a hold of you? What differentiates you from another person currently not experiencing or perceiving anything remotely close to the NOW?

What do you mean with 'nothingness'?

Just about the exact same definition as you described above. It's not an existence, it's not a state, there are no attachments whatsoever, etc.

Maybe you should explain 'human identity'.

From our above conversation the term 'human identity' would refer to our embodiment into a physical vehicle that has somehow distinguished itself as separate from the greater whole.

It's like sleep. Do you get hold of sleep or does sleep get hold of you and your identity?

There are many ways to induce sleep, such as sleeping tablets, deep meditative states, physical exhaustion, mental exhaustion, hypnosis, etc. Your concept of the NOW allows for no viable way to induce anything whatsoever.

How does sleep affect your human identity?

Mental and physical recharge. As humans we become exhausted, the body needs to sleep in order to recharge and get up and running the next day. Without sleep the body would become lethargic and very difficult to handle. It is therefore necessary for the proper functioning. Not to mention that dreams also induce many situations of learning, entertainment, relaxation, and other times absolute crap. But the bottom line is that our subconscious mind moves through an experience that may very well affect our daily lives in some way. Precognitive dreams are an excellent example.

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Midnite

Since the NOW can in no way be initiated by the practitioner, then what determines the NOW taking a hold of you? What differentiates you from another person currently not experiencing or perceiving anything remotely close to the NOW?

You can't drag your identity there. Therefore you can't be a person there. It's nothing a person would be interested in anyway, there is nothing in it for you as a person. Actually the NOW is what a person tries to avoid at all costs. It takes you your reason for being, and with that all your questions.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Reefs

You can't drag your identity there. Therefore you can't be a person there. It's nothing a person would be interested in anyway, there is nothing in it for you as a person. Actually the NOW is what a person tries to avoid at all costs. It takes you your reason for being, and with that all your questions.

As with all spiritual ideas, the person will look for a way to use the experience of 'no me', which is what being present means, to serve the 'me', which requires getting a little creative. It becomes a practice that the person does intermittently, usually for relatively short periods, through which the person can experience the momentary unburdening of personhood, and then claim as a personal accomplishment. There's a level at which mind is aware of the 'danger' of staying present too long (which for mind means staying absent) and so this is monitored carefully so as to minimize the risk.

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Arcanum

As with all spiritual ideas, the person will look for a way to use the experience of 'no me', which is what being present means, to serve the 'me', which requires getting a little creative. It becomes a practice that the person does intermittently, usually for relatively short periods, through which the person can experience the momentary unburdening of personhood, and then claim as a personal accomplishment. There's a level at which mind is aware of the 'danger' of staying present too long (which for mind means staying absent) and so this is monitored carefully so as to minimize the risk.

Maguru/Midnite would say: That's a very nice concept you've smoked yourself here, Arcanum, but how does that help humanity/human identity? Tell us what we can do and not what is useless doing!

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Reefs

Maguru/Midnite would say: That's a very nice concept you've smoked yourself here, Arcanum, but how does that help humanity/human identity? Tell us what we can do and not what is useless doing!

Zaklee. In a way it's all about challenging beliefs; revealing the illusion for what it is, and where we often get stuck is when we try to question one illusion from the perspective of another illusion and find ourselves confronted by an imaginary paradox.

To suggest that there's nothing that can be done seems utterly pointless from within the perspective of the imaginary doer who imagines something is missing and needs to be found. Of course what is being said is that ALL of it is being imagined, and that when this is noticed, nothing needs to be done at all but to stop imagining.

The absence of volition is not a prison sentence for the separate person who can't fulfill his needs, it's an invitation to take a look see at whether there's really a prisoner there at all or if that's just being imagined along with those unfulfilled needs.

Experience doesn't validate belief, but is rather the expression of it. If there is the belief in separation and lack, then this will be the experience. One cannot point to that experience as proof of the truth of the belief. Creation is all encompassing and is happening now with the next thought that arises. The thought isn't nearly as much of a problem as the belief in the ultimate truth of it, which will express itself in the rest of one's personal experience. The unrelenting attention to one's own thought world seems to validate those thoughts, but this is the illusion that can't be revealed by staring at the illusion.

[ChrisGinsburg]

Originally Posted by Arcanum

The absence of volition is not a prison sentence for the separate person who can't fulfill his needs, it's an invitation to take a look see at whether there's really a prisoner there at all or if that's just being imagined along with those unfulfilled needs.

Yes. Most people seem to be able to accept ideas about not being separate (although still holding conflicting beliefs about the matter) but out right refuse the idea that there is no volition. One of the most powerful illusory structures seems to be that of the belief that the person must be constantly making choices and analyzing situations for the best possible outcome.

Out of this structure we get people who claim that realization could be an interesting perspective or new belief system but it's not for them. They still have productive lives to live and such a realization would mean sitting in a cave drooling. The proverbial prison you mention.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by ChrisGinsburg

Yes. Most people seem to be able to accept ideas about not being separate (although still holding conflicting beliefs about the matter) but out right refuse the idea that there is no volition. One of the most powerful illusory structures seems to be that of the belief that the person must be constantly making choices and analyzing situations for the best possible outcome.

Out of this structure we get people who claim that realization could be an interesting perspective or new belief system but it's not for them. They still have productive lives to live and such a realization would mean sitting in a cave drooling. The proverbial prison you mention.

Yeah, it actually takes some cognitive dissonance to be able to accept the idea of no separation, and yet reject the idea of no volition. I guess this is where all the paradoxes start to show up and then they have to be embraced and 'lived'.

[VinceG]

Where I find the supreme cognitive dissonance is in this idea being bandied about that, essentially, experience is meaningless.

Is there anything not illusory, Arcanum?

[Midnite]

Originally Posted by Reefs

Maguru/Midnite would say: That's a very nice concept you've smoked yourself here, Arcanum, but how does that help humanity/human identity? Tell us what we can do and not what is useless doing!

hahaha Exactly.

We are currently embodied into something physical, with a physical life, and physical consequences thereof. Call it illusionary as it may, however it still doesn't change the fact that we are here and we are experiencing this unique form of reality as a result. This concept we muse over here about being in the NOW sounds very good on paper, very intellectual over a forum discussion with like-minded people, and also quite appealing to those who seek to do less, however what it doesn't do is provide meaning or motivation to do anything at all.

Don't pounce on me yet with 'but Midnite all that crap about finding direction, meaning, human identity and whatnot is just illusionary and doesn't really exist. The NOW is the real deal'.

Many people will not achieve something as so pure and so learned as being in the NOW within their current life. It's why the ideals of reincarnation come into place. Continued learning. Not one life and you're a Master. The hard news to hear is that many people would not be able to experience the NOW in their current life due to spiritual inexperience. If you really want to think about this, it's a very advanced spiritual concept, it's not easy to accept, and it's also not mainstreamed in any way. It's actually counter-productive.

It may essentially be classed into a category of unrealistic.

Originally Posted by ChrisGinsburg

Yes. Most people seem to be able to accept ideas about not being separate (although still holding conflicting beliefs about the matter) but out right refuse the idea that there is no volition.

And this is exactly why most people will not accept it for many lives on end. LoA and all the other wonderful spiritual concepts about 'taking control of your life' are all set up to acknowledge the modus of power going into the practitioners hands. Proactive spiritual discovery. Suddenly they must realize all that is essentially crap, and it's really all about complete and utter surrender into something like the NOW. Completely the opposite to what they have been taught in the more earlier and more appealing spiritual concepts that lured them into the field in the first place.

They still have productive lives to live and such a realization would mean sitting in a cave drooling.

This is kind of funny. But also completely true. How many people are willing to accept their physical lives only serves as a complete distraction?