There is no afterlife!

[Interesting Ian]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

My response would be: How do we self-determine our own essence?

By exercising our free will and choosing the sort of people we want to be.

Sorry I don't wish to discuss Newcomb's paradox at this juncture. That's worth a thread in its own right. An extremely long thread to boot!

[Michael Chui]

Mmkay. So we have free will by its own exercise. True enough. But I suppose that's where we'll stop, as you wish, since there seems to be nothing to be said beyond motivational guru hype. Best wishes, and I hope your beliefs are never tested.

[Interesting Ian]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

Mmkay. So we have free will by its own exercise. True enough. But I suppose that's where we'll stop, as you wish, since there seems to be nothing to be said beyond motivational guru hype. Best wishes, and I hope your beliefs are never tested.

Free will is an intrinsic attribute of selves as much as consciousness is.

We choose our own essence. We choose the type of people we are. We have no-one to blame but ourselves for our essence. We can't blame God, the physical laws of nature, nor our environment. All those may alter our personality but not our essence.

[DoAnyOfYouExist]

Originally Posted by Interesting Ian

Free will is an intrinsic attribute of selves as much as consciousness is.

We choose our own essence. We choose the type of people we are. We have no-one to blame but ourselves for our essence. We can't blame God, the physical laws of nature, nor our environment. All those may alter our personality but not our essence.

Beautiful, thank you.

[Erock]

I didn't read all 4 pages of this huge debate, but the way I see it right now is that consciousness is everywhere, and the brain is what contains personality, intellect, and the ability to perceive the world through the senses. When consciousness hits (or creates) the brain, the brain turns on and starts perceiving and thinking, and the brain is what creates the ego using the consciousness that moves through it. Obviously this is an illusion, because the brain is just a tool that consciousness created to perceive itself. When we die, get knocked out, exc, consciousness just does not move through the brain, so the ego does not function. Consciousness remains unharmed.

Awareness might be something seperate from consciousness though, I'm not sure.

Still haven't figured this stuff out, and who knows if I ever will, but I love discussing it.

Erock

[Luciddd]

Op I will introduce you to the concept of soul and spirit.

As I see it "we" the beign that changes is like an actor in a living movie you may change the personality of the actor who is interpreting the paper of the author in person. Imagine a game where you have bullets and stuff, cut the leg of the actor and the actor will change for the entirely of the movie (lifetime) unless you introduce mystical and divine elements to the movie itself (like the leg beign restored). You see you can change the actor in the living movie but you cant change WHO is interpreting the actor this is the soul. The soul is ever peaceful and is part of the spirit which is ever bliss (God) the soul when it has individiality is called soul and can operates in the I though much more less limited than the actor the soul is pure awareness, but when it has lost its individuality it merges with the bliss God. You cant destroy a soul, you can make it dirty and full of filfth and slime or get it to be sooooooo attuned with the paper it is acting that it forgets who it is, but you cant destroy a soul because everything is the same, God. Why do you think the soul can see the future (probable events) and such? Because the soul know it is only acting and thus never mess with the paper it is acting unless you know how to become it, relinquish the paper and become soul and eventually Spirit (God).

So you can harm my personality with the silly physical toys you have, you may make me forget everything but you can never harm the ever joyous and playfull beign that is intepreting this actor named Bernard F.

Thats why beigns that are aware and know in all aspects they are Spirit are humble despite they can do anything, they know reality as an illusion as a movie and thus dont give a **** about what the movie offer for them but rather want to help people to wake up.

[Interesting Ian]

I can't remember contributing to this thread. I vaguely remember joining this discussion board a few years back. Oh well.

I know this thread is about 3.5 years old and the original poster is unlikely to still be reading this thread (unless she got an email alert like I did). But I now have a somewhat more comprehensive response than my original contributions.

mysterygal said:

Why do people believe in an afterlife? How could our consciousness survive after death? Our brain is what makes up our personality. For example, if a person suffers brain damage they will become a different person. They may not be able to talk, they may become delayed. So, which version of the person goes to heaven? The person prior to the accident, or the person after? You see we never stay they same person. We are constantly changing. There is NO possible way human beings so called "souls" could move on to the after life. No brain = no person. Once our brain dies, what is their to sustain our personalities? We are the sum of our personality. Once our personalities die, so do we. So, how could you go to the afterlife if you are no long you anymore. Exactly you can't. What makes me "me" is my personality. If you get rid of my personality what is left? Nothing. Can someone explain to me how they can believe they go on to the after life if their brains die.

I wrote an essay which addresses precisely this problem. Best not paste here as it is fairly long. Just follow the link!

Is a "life after death" conceivable?

[Experience]

Why do people believe in an afterlife?

That's called a question. Usually a answer follows. Here is a answer.

Because they CHOOSE to believe in afterlife.

Why do they choose to believe in a afterlife?

Maybe they just want to piss you of and have argument with you.
Maybe they want to profit by telling everyone there is a afterlife so if you follow their orders and give them 10% of your income you will be blessed with a afterlife.
Maybe they like the idea of afterlife because they don't want to die and like to live longer.

Do you dislike the idea of a afterlife?
Do you need to be correct? that no afterlife exists. does everyone else have to belief what you belief?

all questions require a yes or no answer generally. although you could ignore or write a pile of ****.

if you answer yes or no what is the point of it?
what is the point of me asking the questions?
me to judge you? whats wrong with judgment?

could be right or wrong or neither.
I asked the questions to waste time. no you didn't. well ok. anyways food.

love

experience

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by Interesting Ian

I can't remember contributing to this thread.

It's kind of freaky when these three-year-old threads get revived, isn't it?

[electricthot]

12-05-2010 My great granddaughter, Chloe Wadel, is about to find out firsthand if there is Life after Death. Not yet a year and a half old, they just a few days ago sent her home with no hope, after several brain surgeries and a futile attempt at chemo. (you can get Baby Chloe's story, as well as follow her daily progress, at: CaringBridge / chloewadel / Welcome
I've never met Baby Chloe, and I barely know her mother, Tiffany. But the Grandma of the Baby is one of my precious step-daughters. And the pain my family is experiencing right now is so great, that it leaves me feeling helpless before Death's wicked victory that is slamming all the Love we have for this innocent little child in the dust.
Life after Death takes on new dimension in such circumstances. Please join me and my family in quiet awe, as a precious Baby is ripped from our midst in the coming days. As this Child dies, let us all learn from death's darkness revealed so dramatically before our eyes, and come back here quickly with our own personal responses to this event.
I walked a mile with Pleasure,
she chattered all the way;
but left me none the wiser,
for all she had to say.
I walked a mile with Sorrow,
and ne'er a word said she;
but oohh the things I learned from her,
when Sorrow walked with me!
unknown

Originally Posted by Interesting Ian

I can't remember contributing to this thread. I vaguely remember joining this discussion board a few years back. Oh well.

I know this thread is about 3.5 years old and the original poster is unlikely to still be reading this thread (unless she got an email alert like I did). But I now have a somewhat more comprehensive response than my original contributions.

mysterygal said:



I wrote an essay which addresses precisely this problem. Best not paste here as it is fairly long. Just follow the link!

Is a "life after death" conceivable?

Everyone who Love's Chloe Wadel will make sure she never dies. She'll not only be born into the new self she created for herself while she was here, but our Love for her in this realm will forever keep her Alive here. So, she'll have two Lives when she leaves here. As such, she will be an Angel between Heaven and Earth to Shine Love on those of us here yet to leave.

[Kumera]

There is plenty of actual evidence for an afterlife. I have summarised some of it, and included many links to other websites that go more deeply into it, on a website at Afterlife Survival: What Does the Actual Evidence Say? / Rose and Lotus. If you want evidence that the consciousness is not dependent on the brain, just stop concentrating on the brain, and look at the other evidence for consciousness that exists.

[James81]

It's funny to me that this discussion originally ended on 5/12 and was revived on 12/5 date-wise.

It's even funnier to think that in another part of the world, thus discission ended in12/5 and was revived on 5/12.

[Arcturus]

Here is how I see it:

Life after death cannot be proved but then again, it cannot be disproved. I would argue that the only thing those who disbelieve in life after death have to go on is the fact that (to them) life after death seems too incredible to be true.
On the other hand, those who believe in life after death (such as myself) can have as a basis for their belief such things as the countless cases of Near Death Experience, After Death Communications and spirit contact through mediums to name just a few.
This is looking at the subject in a matter of fact way. Even without these things to go on I would still believe in the afterlife because, to me, the afterlife and the continuation of the soul/spirit is as real and as natural as the here and now. Only the physical body dies - not the conciousness inside it.

Here is one of many interesting web sites on the subject. Link.

[stealth87]

I don't know.

But one thing is for certain, if the brain stops functioning the 'self' dies. For a patient with alzheimer's disease, the 'self' eventually dies, but there is still a life force that coordinates simple motor reactions. Like blinking or the squeezing of hands when touched.

The 'self' is a product of the brain. Like it was argued before, it is not above brain damage. Otherwise a sense of 'self' would be evident for patients with amnesia, in commas, or other brain related traumas.

So, if the brain dies, will my 'self' continue to exist?

All that is certain is that whether I die, life goes on. It is also clear that a sense of 'self' isn't the cornerstone to life, as life exists with or without a 'self'.

I do like to entertain the notion of an afterlife, because I think it's a cool topic. But, I am not going to believe or hold as reality accounts of near death experience, nor naysayers of the afterlife. There is evidence for both ways. Whether I believe one way or the other, doesn't affect reality as it is now, which is most important.

[supertom]

Originally Posted by James81

It's funny to me that this discussion originally ended on 5/12 and was revived on 12/5 date-wise.

It's even funnier to think that in another part of the world, thus discission ended in12/5 and was revived on 5/12.

Pretty much the whole world except north america and Palau

I'm actually surprised this site isn't called moc.anilvapevets.www

[timebomb]

Well, I don't know. Just hope nothing exists though. I mean, if anything goes on, what should go on? Will death change our lack of knowledge, weaknesses and limitations? Will we become super human after death. I just hope death is a nice black out.

[supertom]

To me death isn't about a afterlife, its about returning from where I came, weather you look at it as the ether, spiritual plane, pure awareness or even atheist nothingness.

Worst case is its nothingness but doesn't scare me one bit, because its really my true self from nothingness I come to nothingness I return.

[Interesting Ian]

Originally Posted by stealth87

I don't know.

But one thing is for certain, if the brain stops functioning the 'self' dies. For a patient with alzheimer's disease, the 'self' eventually dies, but there is still a life force that coordinates simple motor reactions. Like blinking or the squeezing of hands when touched.

The self apparently dies in deep sleep too. But that says nothing about it coming back into being.

Did you read my essay?

The 'self' is a product of the brain. Like it was argued before, it is not above brain damage. Otherwise a sense of 'self' would be evident for patients with amnesia, in commas, or other brain related traumas.

This is very confused. A materialist does not assign the same meaning to self that everyone else does. He believes in the sense of a self only, but no real self corresponding to this sense of self (or at least this is what he is obliged to believe even if he fails to realise this!). The sense of self is not one and the same thing as the self (compare to putting on some virtual reality goggles and sensing a table. Obviously here the sensing of a table cannot be one and the same thing as a real table since there is no real table there).

It follows then that we cannot regard ourselves as not being selves if we don't have a sense of a self. (compare the situation where a table is in front of me but I have my eyes closed. Thus I do not sense a table even though it exists).

[James81]

Originally Posted by supertom

Pretty much the whole world except north america and Palau

I'm actually surprised this site isn't called moc.anilvapevets.www

Yeah, well I've heard the whole date argument thing before, and I still think it's silly to put the day first.

When someone asks me what date it is, I don't say "10 November 2010". I say "November 10, 2010".

So it makes sense if I'm going to abbreviate it as such, you put it in the order that you say it.

[Diandra25]

i didnt read any of the replies so i´ll only state my opinion here

afterlife just means that you passed onto a different level of existence.a higher one.not one of 3rd like in this one where you were led to believe that you are your personality. or brain or whatever. you are not your brain.

even people in coma continue to exist,and its known that many who have awakened from coma states say they have heard everything around them.and even see everything around it.

but as i believe in reincarnation and many other things for me is only natural that an afterlife exists....not me nor even death exists in the way you think about it. for me death is an akakening to the real deal. and this what you re living now....only the experience is true.the rest is an illusion.

so....for me, before we actually encarnate we are already existing. on a different and higher plane. we make the decision to come here again to experience certain themes in life,and only then after we make our 1st breath,we forget all that was behind.all our past lifes..but the memories are in the sub-concious and can easily be acesssed by ones who know.

and then its all a cycle. you come and you go several times till your process of evolution is finished and you become one with God again forever.

but hey again...this is just my perspective.

[wolfgang]

there is no before life either

[machoman]

I haven't read the thread fully but just thought of informing about this book in which author gives a scientific evidence that there is life after death:

The Case for Life After Death

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by AidanMatthews216

Why is it that memory, personality traits, and even facets of our consciousness can be lost due to brain damage? If those things reside outside of our brains, wouldn't they be immune to physical damage?

Ha! That's a cool one. But how about this:

Why is it that music, talks and even facets of any kind of sound can be lost due to damage of my radio. If those things reside outside of my radio, wouldn't they be immune to physical damage?

[taylor]

I don't know about all this afterlife stuff, but apparently dead threads do indeed get reincarnated.

[electricthot]

Belief in an afterlife suggests a higher power that will hold us accountable for our thoughts and actions while here. Rejecting this belief lowers accountability issues to just each other. We can put on a face and fool each other, and we all do it to some extent. But an all seeing God cannot be hidden from, not either in thought or motives. Whether they want to admit it or not, most people who reject the idea of an afterlife do so out of an unwillingness to be held accountable for themselves. Thus, they can cheat their fellow human and if they are clever enough, no one but them will be the wiser.