The Hitler in us.

[Arz Sra]

Jiddu Says -

"“Hitler and Mussolini were only the primary spokesmen for the attitude of domination and craving for power that are in the heart of almost everyone. Until the source is cleared, there will always be confusion and hate, wars and class antagonisms.”

1. Craving for power for dominance is in each one of us. Only that it manifest in subtle ways in some of us. Right?

2. What is the source being talked about here? May be its social conditioning To Become something.

3. How has this source been responsible for wars and antagonisms?

4. How does one clear the source at personal level?

5. How does one clear this source at a world level?

[Fred Tracy]

I definitely agree that the craving for power and dominance is inherent in us as human beings.

I'm not so sure that I want to nullify mine though. I just like to be able to manage it. When it gets to a huge, blown up, crazy Hitler level – you've gone too far.

But a little craving for power now and then isn't so bad.

It's when we NEED that power to feel complete that it becomes a problem.

[nothuman]

The can of worms that is the mind / ego will continue to create conflict. The most obvious answer is to live more consciously. Anything else to do with rehabillitating the source of the conflict would be akin to putting a bandaid on a chainsaw wound.

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Arz Sra

Jiddu Says -

"“Hitler and Mussolini were only the primary spokesmen for the attitude of domination and craving for power that are in the heart of almost everyone. Until the source is cleared, there will always be confusion and hate, wars and class antagonisms.”

What's wrong with that? Maybe the only thing that's wrong with that is calling it wrong.

1. Craving for power for dominance is in each one of us. Only that it manifest in subtle ways in some of us. Right?

2. What is the source being talked about here? May be its social conditioning To Become something.

3. How has this source been responsible for wars and antagonisms?

4. How does one clear the source at personal level?

5. How does one clear this source at a world level?

Who sees problems everywhere and things in need of change? Who is unsatisfied? Who wants to clear something? Who would benefit?

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by Arz Sra

for the attitude
of domination and craving for power that are in the heart of almost everyone.

4. How does one clear the source at personal level?

Good! that you acknowledge, that (attitude
of domination and craving for power) are absent in some of our hearts.
How?
1. Know the Best ... in you, & nurture all peace loving attitudes.

2. Control yourself.

3. Empower yourself.

4. Help others peacefully empower themselves as well.

[Arz Sra]

But a little craving for power now and then isn't so bad.

It's when we NEED that power to feel complete that it becomes a problem

On a certain level I agree. But one has to see that the the mind holds on to the same fears. Only the way to hold becomes more and more subtle. And subtle is very easy to justify. I read another discourse of Jiddu where someone raised the same point that its right to keep it a little. The answer he gave was - the little we keep is enough to turn into a much bigger evil once it gets the spark of power. This is what he is saying exactly.

Another thing, Fear has a tremendous role in craving for power at any level. An I am talking from personal experience. I myself had long been justifying this subtle need to be in control which a honest look inside will tell you is a manifestation of fear. But then something happened - a spiritual experience. After that I feel no particular urge to respond to my fears. It feels as if there is nothing to be afraid of. And I have seen many of my core beliefs crumble after the experience; and also the diminishing of the need to assert or to dominate or to prove anything. Doing anything is more like a dance than something intended.

[Arz Sra]

Originally Posted by nothuman

The can of worms that is the mind / ego will continue to create conflict. The most obvious answer is to live more consciously. Anything else to do with rehabillitating the source of the conflict would be akin to putting a bandaid on a chainsaw wound.

May be You are right, thought a bit gory in your description

I do not intend to insult you in any way but I see a particular attachment towards the concept of ego there. Whether one praises or one condemns - both are signs of subtle dependence.

[Arz Sra]

Originally Posted by Reefs

What's wrong with that? Maybe the only thing that's wrong with that is calling it wrong.



Who sees problems everywhere and things in need of change? Who is unsatisfied? Who wants to clear something? Who would benefit?

What's wrong with that? Maybe the only thing that's wrong with that is calling it wrong.

I knew you would come with your under-the-current pointers . First, Take it a bit easily. I know where you are coming from.

Ok. There is nothing wrong with anything (really). But there is nothing right either But there is no inherent quality in anything. Here, We are seeing it all from a humanistic perspective which rides on the waves of fears.

Who sees problems everywhere and things in need of change? Who is unsatisfied? Who wants to clear something? Who would benefit?

No one will. I am perfectly at peace . Or at least I think so. Both ways I am.

Would you ask the same questions regarding actions such as eating, drinking, urinating etc etc ?

[Arz Sra]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

Good! that you acknowledge, that (attitude
of domination and craving for power) are absent in some of our hearts.
How?
1. Know the Best ... in you, & nurture all peace loving attitudes.

2. Control yourself.

3. Empower yourself.

4. Help others peacefully empower themselves as well.

Thanks

[nothuman]

Originally Posted by Arz Sra

May be You are right, thought a bit gory in your description

I do not intend to insult you in any way but I see a particular attachment towards the concept of ego there. Whether one praises or one condemns - both are signs of subtle dependence.

No offence taken however I don't understand how ego attachment relates to my comment as it was clearly directed towards living consciously as opposed to living reactively

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

Good! that you acknowledge, that (attitude
of domination and craving for power) are absent in some of our hearts.
How?
1. Know the Best ... in you, & nurture all peace loving attitudes.

2. Control yourself.

3. Empower yourself.

4. Help others peacefully empower themselves as well.

Just to be clear, the way to deal with the craving for domination and power is to dominate and empower yourself?

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Arz Sra

May be You are right, thought a bit gory in your description

I do not intend to insult you in any way but I see a particular attachment towards the concept of ego there. Whether one praises or one condemns - both are signs of subtle dependence.

I don't see how stating the problem clearly denotes dependence. I also don't see condemnation, which makes me wonder why you DO see these things. (No intention to insult in any way)

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by nothuman

No offence taken however I don't understand how ego attachment relates to my comment as it was clearly directed towards living consciously as opposed to living reactively

It was just a 'reaction' to your comments.

[raykilleen]

Everything is perfect and we are part of the perfection anything less is a condition of the individual mind, obviously political systems and religions have historically proven ineffective for human suffering of the mind, expansion of individual consciousness is required.

[nothuman]

Originally Posted by Arcanum

It was just a 'reaction' to your comments.

Hahahaha I wasn't conscious of that

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by raykilleen

Everything is perfect and we are part of the perfection anything less is a condition of the individual mind, obviously political systems and religions have historically proven ineffective for human suffering of the mind, expansion of individual consciousness is required.

Seeing things as 'perfect' is not a condition of the individual mind?

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Arz Sra

I knew you would come with your under-the-current pointers .

OMG, Reefs has become predictable.

Maybe it's time to retire...

Would you ask the same questions regarding actions such as eating, drinking, urinating etc etc ?

How are those actions different from what you are talking about? Of all what is happening, is there something of more or less importance?

'Clearing the source' makes it sound as if there is an ideal state of being. Is there?

[raykilleen]

Originally Posted by Reefs

Seeing things as 'perfect' is not a condition of the individual mind?

Experience from beyond the mind, macrocosm.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by Arz Sra

Jiddu Says -

"“Hitler and Mussolini were only the primary spokesmen for the attitude of domination and craving for power that are in the heart of almost everyone. Until the source is cleared, there will always be confusion and hate, wars and class antagonisms.”

1. Craving for power for dominance is in each one of us. Only that it manifest in subtle ways in some of us. Right?

2. What is the source being talked about here? May be its social conditioning To Become something.

3. How has this source been responsible for wars and antagonisms?

4. How does one clear the source at personal level?

5. How does one clear this source at a world level?

The destruction done by ego is simply a matter of degree. An ego can be in one individual or in a collectively in a society or religious group. Hilter used the mass media to create the German ego into his war machine for world dominance.

The one source is not knowing "who am I?" Without that knowing of self, the ego is present as a cheap substitute that is easily exploiting, developed, and manipulated.

And how are we going to recreate the world away form evil when with every newborn baby comes the indoctrination of religion, culture, and patriotism into that baby? It's futile.

I can save me, but even then it's an accidental process because until my ego collapses, until in some way I've got a glimpse of the real me that makes me hunger for another moment of just being me, then easily I can live my live pursuing the next ego enhancement and for Hitler is was world domination. For most the rest of us, its merely staying ahead of our neighbors.

[hamix]

Why should the "source" be cleared? Hitler was "evil", yes. But I would say the entire Third Reich period just shows a different side of humanity, and a side that is just as part of our nature as any other.

[Arz Sra]

Originally Posted by Reefs

OMG, Reefs has become predictable.

Maybe it's time to retire...



How are those actions different from what you are talking about? Of all what is happening, is there something of more or less importance?

'Clearing the source' makes it sound as if there is an ideal state of being. Is there?

Yes, Reefs is always very much predictable to me. :|

How are those actions different from what you are talking about? Of all what is happening, is there something of more or less importance?

From your reasoning here - nothing is different?

Clearing the source' makes it sound as if there is an ideal state of being. Is there?

Does it sound like that?

[Arz Sra]

Originally Posted by RonSouther

The destruction done by ego is simply a matter of degree. An ego can be in one individual or in a collectively in a society or religious group. Hilter used the mass media to create the German ego into his war machine for world dominance.

The one source is not knowing "who am I?" Without that knowing of self, the ego is present as a cheap substitute that is easily exploiting, developed, and manipulated.

And how are we going to recreate the world away form evil when with every newborn baby comes the indoctrination of religion, culture, and patriotism into that baby? It's futile.

I can save me, but even then it's an accidental process because until my ego collapses, until in some way I've got a glimpse of the real me that makes me hunger for another moment of just being me, then easily I can live my live pursuing the next ego enhancement and for Hitler is was world domination. For most the rest of us, its merely staying ahead of our neighbors.

I can save me, but even then it's an accidental process because until my ego collapses, until in some way I've got a glimpse of the real me that makes me hunger for another moment of just being me, then easily I can live my live pursuing the next ego enhancement and for Hitler is was world domination. For most the rest of us, its merely staying ahead of our neighbors.

Its rather about your inclination. If its there , all it needs is the spark of power.

[Arz Sra]

Originally Posted by hamix

Why should the "source" be cleared? Hitler was "evil", yes. But I would say the entire Third Reich period just shows a different side of humanity, and a side that is just as part of our nature as any other.

An often used justification is to say " its human nature" . This justification stands only as long as one assumes that it cannot be transcended. But this is not true.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by hamix

Why should the "source" be cleared? Hitler was "evil", yes. But I would say the entire Third Reich period just shows a different side of humanity, and a side that is just as part of our nature as any other.

Evil isnt part of our nature...its a consequence of not knowing self which leads to a mind centered life which is not natural because its not harmonious with nature.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Arcanum

Just to be clear, the way to deal with the craving for domination and power is to dominate and empower yourself?

Dominate or have mastery of?

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by hamix

Hitler was "evil", yes.

How can you be so sure? Did you know him personally and followed him around 24/7/365? Or did you only read books published after 1939?

Don't forget that he was Time Magazine's person of the year for 1938!

That 'evil' word needs some clarification. The person of the year for 1930 was Gandhi, for 1939 Stalin and for 2008 Obama.

But I would say the entire Third Reich period just shows a different side of humanity, and a side that is just as part of our nature as any other.

Who is 'we' that has a 'nature'? Tom, Dick and Harry?

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Dominate or have mastery of?

The craving for self mastery comes from the same place as the craving for mastery of others. The point is that self mastery and self empowerment is not the solution to the craving for mastery of others and power over others. It's feeding the same wolf.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Arcanum

The craving for self mastery comes from the same place as the craving for mastery of others. The point is that self mastery and self empowerment is not the solution to the craving for mastery of others and power over others. It's feeding the same wolf.

I don't think that is true at all, but anyway.

Clearly the desire to have mastery over ones Self comes from a place of desiring to improve and unleash ones own potential on the world and live in a more super conscious way, which seems more aligned with inner power.

The desire for having power over others comes from a more fear-based illusionary place that the Ego likes to encourage.

I also don't agree that self-mastery and self-empowerment is not the solution to the craving for power over others.

Once a person is on the path towards attaining true power within themselves and mastery over their emotions and ego, there is no need to have control over others, and more so, that person would want to encourage self- empowerment in others as they have experienced first hand the benefits and harmony and wholeness that comes with this attainment. In short, they are more likely to want to lift others up than see them become enslaved to the whims of their ego.

It is definitely not feeding the same wolf. They are different creatures all together.

[truant]

Originally Posted by Reefs

OMG, Reefs has become predictable.

Maybe it's time to retire...

Reefs, you are predictable like sunlight. People need big flashy neon lights to stay entertained.

If it helps, don't think of it as being predictable, think of it as being consistent.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I don't think that is true at all, but anyway.

Clearly the desire to have mastery over ones Self comes from a place of desiring to improve and unleash ones own potential on the world and live in a more super conscious way, which seems more aligned with inner power.

The desire for having power over others comes from a more fear-based illusionary place that the Ego likes to encourage.

I also don't agree that self-mastery and self-empowerment is not the solution to the craving for power over others.

Once a person is on the path towards attaining true power within themselves and mastery over their emotions and ego, there is no need to have control over others, and more so, that person would want to encourage self- empowerment in others as they have experienced first hand the benefits and harmony and wholeness that comes with this attainment. In short, they are more likely to want to lift others up than see them become enslaved to the whims of their ego.

It is definitely not feeding the same wolf. They are different creatures all together.

Whatever the focus of need, it is projected onto the rest of the world. If one sees oneself as lacking power and self control, others will be seen as too powerful, too weak, too self controlled or not enough. Others will be elevated, denigrated, pitied, used according to that perspective, and so the focus on self control and empowerment is not the solution to the abuse of power and control in the world. It IS the same wolf.

Likewise, the focus on being more loving and kind and humble generally results in perceiving others as not loving, kind or humble enough. To be genuinely humble is the disinterest in either humility or arrogance, and in the same way, Love moves in the absence of the need to love or be loved.

We cannot say the same for self control and personal empowerment because these are illusions, which is another reason not to focus on them, though there is value in understanding oneself and living consciously. In that case there is just the alignment with the natural flow of life, which IS power.