Awareness, "being in the body" while speaking to people

[OstapBender]

When I am trying to be aware of my breathing and try to "be in my body", as Tolle says it, I find it very difficult to communicate with other people. Either I cannot focus on the communication or I loose focus on my "inner body" or whatever you may call it. When I am alone or with others but not talking to them, I dont have problems to do that (at least, for some periods of time).

I think there are two possibilities: either it can come with practice or I have "wrong" idea what it means to "be in the body". What do you think?

I imagine, if I would do it right, the communication would flow more easily, but right now it doesnt feel that way.

[pianoperformer]

I think it comes with time. Honestly, sometimes there are times when I am present and aware when I am just reflective and don't want to communicate. My wife's come to notice this now so she leaves me alone or doesn't question it when I'm like this. Other times, I'm still aware but very outgoing. Neither of them are wrong, so I just say go with whatever feels natural.

[Arcanum]

To be fully present is actually to be empty rather than focused on either the conversation or the body. One is simply present, alert and still, meaning fully aware as awareness and not caught up in thoughts.

The difficulty may be a conceptual misunderstanding. Hearing and responding happen spontaneously and effortlessly, as does being present. The practice of attending to breathing and body sensations is intended to bring one out of mind and into the present where the body always is. There's an irony in being so distracted by trying to be present to the body and the conversation that one is actually absent to both. A relaxed attention to the hearing, and the allowing of a spontaneous response, IS being present.

Everything is a relationship, whether with the body sensations or another person. The challenge is simply to be present to those relationships, attending to the actually of whatever is happening NOW. When there is an 'other' in your presence, forget the body and attend to the other. The other is as present as your body. Give your full attention and be still. You may find that in this stillness, Love also moves.

[Arz Sra]

Originally Posted by OstapBender

When I am trying to be aware of my breathing and try to "be in my body", as Tolle says it, I find it very difficult to communicate with other people. Either I cannot focus on the communication or I loose focus on my "inner body" or whatever you may call it. When I am alone or with others but not talking to them, I dont have problems to do that (at least, for some periods of time).

I think there are two possibilities: either it can come with practice or I have "wrong" idea what it means to "be in the body". What do you think?

I imagine, if I would do it right, the communication would flow more easily, but right now it doesnt feel that way.

Though I haven't read Tolle but still I can understand what it is.

The problem arises due to dis-orientation between body and the mind. Body wants to react to the situation in a different way, the mind thinks otherwise. To be in body means to accept the body. This brings a synchronicity , a trust between body mind. The gap between impulse and thought is bridged.

As Pianoperformer said, it will come with time. You have to be in your body. Normally intellectualization ( living in the mind ) occurs as an escape from the primitive responses of the body. Soon this results in body reacting in awkward ways, making you uneasy when you are just conversing normally. Due to our 'fleeing away' from the body , body launches some sort of a survival mechanism. It feels a constant danger even when there is not.

Being in your body releases all the trapped patterns of reacting. Initially this causes a lot of obstruction in the way you converse with others. If the discussion is important, you may even consider not being in the body. That is OK. But try , for most of the times, to keep owning your body while you talk. This will cause you problems in expressing yourself the way you want but with time all will come into rhythm. There are no shortcuts here. You are doing it right when you feel pushed out of body and into the mind.

1. Try focusing on your abdominal region every night for 20 to 30 minutes. Just move your awareness around the area. This is the place where Abdominal brain resides. (http://www.albanyqigong.com/images/solar_plexus_ex.pdf)

2. Try energy work. I'll recommend Robert Bruce's NEW energy ways ( its free )

3. Try some grounding exercises ( search the net for that).

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Arz Sra

Though I haven't read Tolle but still I can understand what it is.

The problem arises due to dis-orientation between body and the mind. Body wants to react to the situation in a different way, the mind thinks otherwise.

The body wants to do one thing and the brain wants to do another? Can you give an example?

Normally intellectualization ( living in the mind ) occurs as an escape from the primitive responses of the body.

Interesting. What sort of primitive responses is your body inclined toward?

But try , for most of the times, to keep owning your body while you talk.

You experience a desire to disown your body?

You are doing it right when you feel pushed out of body and into the mind.

So the idea is to be in mind all the time, or..........?

[nothuman]

The trouble with Tolle IMO is that he puts the chicken before the egg. He describes a state of presense bought about by a liberation from mind. Thats fine but he continues to market techniques to achieve presense through a mental approach. Now obviously you fake it to you make it.... but how many actually make it???
I would personally bypass these methods and look at mindfullness... which is simply paying attention.
I totally relate to Tolle's awakening experience but find a lot of these awakened teachers feel rhey need to dangle a carrot in order to capture an audience.

[Arz Sra]

The body wants to do one thing and the brain wants to do another? Can you give an example?

Shy bladder is a good example.

Interesting. What sort of primitive responses is your body inclined toward?

This is a topic on which a whole book can be written. It relates to impulse and thought. May be i'll start a separate thread for that. I have written a little about it somewhere. I'll have to search. This will give you a little idea about the Gap created between body and mind -

I would now like to start from a somewhat tangent point and accompany you back to 'identification of perception'. When the struggle for survival among species was at its peak, various species were using various tactics to survive. Most were relying highly upon physical force stimulated by primal instincts of fighting for survival ( Fight resopnse). Some species used the same physical force for another response which is commonly known as the flight response. All in all the specise were relying compraitively more upon physical force. Mind was merely serving the body in fighting or running away. An interesting thing that came into existence at some point during this struggle was the rapid development of the neural systems of some species. This development was about to change the future of the planet. Humans, which were probably the earliest to dive intoach, developed mental tactics to escape. Not physical escaping but building basic-level concepts that would somehow soothe the pain. These helped to deal with the stress and trauma of the struggle which was a key factor as well a avoidance of unnecessary figting.. The rest is history.



Developing tactics to escape at the mental level ( soothing, suppressing, imagination) was among the most _____ causes that lead us to be the 'KIng' of all species. But with it came a problem also. Importance of thoughts in survival lead to extreme level of identification with the thoughts themselves. The survival that earlier was consciously for the physical body turned into a survival game for the mental body among who else but groups and tribes of human themselves. Thoughts gained the status that once body did. Its no surprise that 5000 wars, most of which were over ideologies and concepts , have been fought in the last 3000 years.

You experience a desire to disown your body?

Not desire. But it happens automatically when your awareness is in mind.

So the idea is to be in mind all the time, or..........?

its to be in the body so that the gap be closed. "You are doing it right when you feel pushed out of body and into the mind " .. With the status we give to thoughts, we are always pushed out of the body ( the awareness). To feel it is to get back on track. Its happening whether or not you are aware of it.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Arz Sra

Shy bladder is a good example.

Shy bladder is just an expression. It doesn't mean the bladder gets all red faced and embarassed and stuff. Hehe. The shyness is in the mind, isn't it? It's thoughts and fear that bring about this condition. The body doesn't know or care where it urinates, but will become progressively more insistent that it does, not because it thinks about it but because that's how the mechanism operates. The body merely expresses what is in the mind. The fact that the mind is split might make it seem like there are two, but it's just mind fearing and wishing it could get over it's fear at the same time.

Mind was merely serving the body in fighting or running away.

The body serves the mind in either fighting or running. It's mind that perceives one of those actions is needed, and mind that decides which one.(at least in this context) If mind is sufficiently distracted (or drugged) such that it doesn't notice the danger, the body will just sit there and be eaten. The body doesn't care.

[OstapBender]

Lot of valuable input. Thank you!

[Arz Sra]

Arcanum,

Let me give you a perspective from where I come. I do not differentiate between body and the mind. I see mindbody as a single stream from subtle to gross. When I use the words body and mind I am referring to certain depths of the same operating entity. Unfortunately , due to labeling process, there has occurred a crack in mindbody. This thing can be perfectly understood from evolutionary perspective.

Keep in mind that body and mind differ in depth and are not a separate entity. The body opens towards biology, the mind towards society. Body is the impulse part of the entity we are and mind is the ego part. One is shaped by the specie past and the other by individual past. The present environment that an individual faces has shooted off like a rocked from the primitive environment. Society and biology; thought and impulse are in constant conflict Too much awareness in subtle part mindbody leads the gross part of the mindbody to react abruptly. Shy bladder clearly depicts this phenomenon where the gross mind ( instinct- impulse) and subtle mind ( thoughts) are in conflict. And this dis orentation, you will see, will get more and more worse unless we accept the impulse and come back to our body/. The intelligence of body has been ignored.

Mind was merely serving the body in fighting or running away.

Think again on this from my perspective for a moment. The subtle part always serves the gross. So was the case with us. The subtle part is now escaping at a rapid pace. What we call civilization is taking its toll on the gross part.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Arz Sra

Arcanum,

Let me give you a perspective from where I come. I do not differentiate between body and the mind. I see mindbody as a single stream from subtle to gross. When I use the words body and mind I am referring to certain depths of the same operating entity. Unfortunately , due to labeling process, there has occurred a crack in mindbody. This thing can be perfectly understood from evolutionary perspective.
Keep in mind that body and mind differ in depth and are not a separate entity. The body opens towards biology, the mind towards society. Body is the impulse part of the entity we are and mind is the ego part. One is shaped by the specie past and the other by individual past. The present environment that an individual faces has shooted off like a rocked from the primitive environment. Society and biology; thought and impulse are in constant conflict Too much awareness in subtle part mindbody leads the gross part of the mindbody to react abruptly. Shy bladder clearly depicts this phenomenon where the gross mind ( instinct- impulse) and subtle mind ( thoughts) are in conflict. And this dis orentation, you will see, will get more and more worse unless we accept the impulse and come back to our body/. The intelligence of body has been ignored.

I agree mind and body are not separate, but once you conceptually divide them (which you did) it would then be erroneous to conclude that the body wants to do something separately from what the mind wants. "Impulse" is a more subtle level of mind and so it is mind in conflict with mind rather than mind with body. Mind has a strong tendency to split, which is why it's your tendency to create two minds, each having it's own intelligence.

The distinction is important because mind has falsely divided itself and is trying to reify this split with the thought vs body idea. This opens the door to the idea of the body doing all sorts of things that the mind has no involvement in, which is not the case. If the mind is split, heal the split in the mind and leave the body mechanism alone to function as it needs to.

Think again on this from my perspective for a moment. The subtle part always serves the gross. So was the case with us. The subtle part is now escaping at a rapid pace. What we call civilization is taking its toll on the gross part.

The gross always serves the subtle. The body doesn't serve the shovel, mind doesn't serve the body and consciousness doesn't serve the mind. Shovel is a tool for body, body is a tool for mind, mind is a tool of consciousness. The hierarchy is conceptual, but the subtle is at the top.