The One and the Many

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by Arcanum

Yes, awareness in a spiritual context refers to a fundamental presence rather than a mental process. There can be awareness present without any content, which is the case in deep sleep or any time consciousness or mind is absent.

It's a new distinction since it's not commonly accepted that there is 'something' prior to the 'awareness of' something, so the word is used in a new way.

It isn't using it in a new way, it's incorrect use. Why don't you say "fundamental presence" instead of confusing things using a word that means something else? What do you imagine is the something prior to 'awareness of' something?

[Arcanum]

[QUOTE=Maguru;1001349]It isn't using it in a new way, it's incorrect use. Why don't you say "fundamental presence" instead of confusing things using a word that means something else?

Because awareness is both the subject and the apparent object. The object appears in/as awareness itself. The term 'fundamental presence' would no doubt encourage the notion that this fundamental presence can have awareness while what's being said is that it IS awareness.

I didn't invent the term, so i'm not the only one who got it wrong. The use of the term may have value for some as it makes it more difficult for mind to objectify everything.

What do you imagine is the something prior to 'awareness of' something?

Awareness.

[Arz Sra]

Awareness as a process and awareness as a presence needs to be differentiated :|

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Arz Sra

Awareness as a process and awareness as a presence needs to be differentiated :|

The awareness that you are and the awareness that you have are the same. The objects appearing to you are you.

[Maguru]

[QUOTE=Arcanum;1001374]

Originally Posted by Maguru

It isn't using it in a new way, it's incorrect use. Why don't you say "fundamental presence" instead of confusing things using a word that means something else?

Because awareness is both the subject and the apparent object. The object appears in/as awareness itself.

Don't you become aware of an object? Prior to this awareness of an object, there is no awareness of the object but suddenly 'ding' something occurs that brings awareness of the object?

The term 'fundamental presence' would no doubt encourage the notion that this fundamental presence can have awareness while what's being said is that it IS awareness.

Yes this is the problem of language. We have to associate the words with others in order to understand the meaning. Maybe we can just use the word 'Ding"?

I didn't invent the term, so i'm not the only one who got it wrong. The use of the term may have value for some as it makes it more difficult for mind to objectify everything.

Well the 'spiritual terms' need re-defining in a language we can all comprehend.

Originally Posted by maguru

What do you imagine is the something prior to 'awareness of' something?

Originally Posted by arcanum

Awareness.

Or 'Ding'.

[Arcanum]

[QUOTE=Maguru;1001413]

Originally Posted by Arcanum

Don't you become aware of an object? Prior to this awareness of an object, there is no awareness of the object but suddenly 'ding' something occurs that brings awareness of the object?

Yeah, so?

Yes this is the problem of language. We have to associate the words with others in order to understand the meaning. Maybe we can just use the word 'Ding"?

Well the 'spiritual terms' need re-defining in a language we can all comprehend.

What is being talked about can't be conveyed conceptually, so using common language as commonly defined won't work. It also won't work to use new words that have no definition. There's no use us complaining that we don't have the right words or that we should be using different words. The words aren't the problem. The problem is the absence of a commonly shared realization.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by Arcanum

Yeah, so?

So it's not awareness is it? It something prior.

What is being talked about can't be conveyed conceptually, so using common language as commonly defined won't work. It also won't work to use new words that have no definition. There's no use us complaining that we don't have the right words or that we should be using different words. The words aren't the problem. The problem is the absence of a commonly shared realization.

Yeah right! If we don't have the same realization as you then what?

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Maguru

So it's not awareness is it? It something prior.

Yeah, that fundamental presence. I'm not gonna argue semantics with you. Call it 'ding' or whatever you like. It doesn't matter. What DOES matter got lost in the words long ago.

Yeah right! If we don't have the same realization as you then what?

Then I guess yer screwed. Hehe.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by Arcanum

Yeah, that fundamental presence. I'm not gonna argue semantics with you. Call it 'ding' or whatever you like. It doesn't matter. What DOES matter got lost in the words long ago.



Then I guess yer screwed. Hehe.

'Ding' doesn't have the same appeal though does it? Let's say it's 'when an angel gets their wings'.

I guess so. hehhehehe

[raykilleen]

Originally Posted by Maguru

I know it isn't a literal meaning but I haven't a clue if it is a spiritual one. Is it?

Spiritual in the sense that it’s beyond the mind, scientific in the sense that one can experience it directly.