Suicide - A Problem, A Solution.

[Arz Sra]

Here is a thought-provoking article one of my friends shared with me on FB. Wanted to discuss it with you....

"SUICIDE – A PROBLEM, A SOLUTION, OR A ROADMAP TO SPIRITUALITY

People commit suicide to get rid of their problems. Human societies however reject suicides and see it as a problem. Is suicide a problem or a solution to a problem and how it relates to spirituality?

Spirituality has long since held that life lived in human societies: chasing ambitions, amassing wealth etc. is futile. The greater goal of spirituality is to break free of the cycle of births and deaths. There have been instances when spiritual seekers ended their life on attaining enlightenment. If spirituality accepts suicides, why human societies discourage it?

Ordinarily, life tends to preserve itself. We see our wounds healed up, our vital bodily needs replenished and our body protecting itself through its defense mechanism? Taking a cue from Mother Nature, human societies considered it important to preserve and sustain life. It has medical science that tries to ensure continuity of life in the eventuality of disease and casualty. It has technology and economics that tend to ensure comfortable, easy life. Every individual is important to society and therefore death of an individual is seen by it as its failure in preserving life. Society mourns deaths. This is truer in the case of death by suicide, which the society considers most unfortunate.

Ironically, the very means human societies adopt to preserve and sustain life often lead individuals to commit suicides. Governments promote economies helping people with resources for a better living but people fail to earn enough or get burdened under debt or fear law catching up with their ill-gotten money and commit suicides. Governments introduce education and competition to enable people acquire higher skills and attain higher standards of life but the stress of the competition and the fear of backlash on failure drive many to commit suicide.

If we observe closely, road accident and aviation deaths constitute suicides too because dangers of using these facilities are quite apparent and yet the governments build these death traps in the name of infrastructure development for an easier life. Many people commit suicide out of physical distress or unable to bear the pain of incurable diseases suffered from communal living.

The most common suicides result from emotional disturbances. People fall in love, fail to turn love into approved relationships, get disturbed and commit suicides. Then there are people committing suicides on prestige or conscience issues; emotive expressions again.

There would hardly be a person who would not have considered committing suicide at some point in life for some reason or the other. Individuals therefore see suicide as a possible way out of their troubles.

Could life problems that tend to force people into committing suicide draw people to spirituality, to discover the truth of life?

The way human societies are organised, it would never occur to any members that truth of life would be different from the truths the societies uphold. From cradle to casket, people are influenced to live in a particular way and that is the only truth for people. Indeed if someone passes his/her entire lifetime smoothly in a society, s/he would never know if a different reality existed out there. Spiritual masters see this as life of a fish in a pond who would never know she lived in water (to know water, fish has to get out of water).

The only time a person could come closer to discovering the falseness in materialistic life is when faced with acute problems and considering suicide. Here, a spiritual master could help one in discovering the truth of life, freeing oneself of all bonds.

Suicide therefore is considered a problem by the society and a solution to the problems by an individual, but a person considering suicide has the opportunity to enter spirituality too, finding a one-touch solution to all earthly problems.

- Subhash Sharma

"

Whats your view on suicide?

[Arz Sra]

Suicide is certainly a solution. But something is unique about it. Suicide is not a conformation to the problem, Instead it ends the very problem itself. Its like, the problem itself becomes kamikaze. Problem and solution collapse altogether.

Indeed society sows thorns in the first place and then this whole madness is justified in the name of improvement. The whole madness is being further carried on in the name of solution. Its the individual that is suffering. Its the individual that is being driven to suicide. Society survives at the cost of the individual. Seems as if all is going towards a robotic-mechanical future . And if one looks closely, even presently there are more robots than humans. This race in the name of development is the cause of all the misery and it justifies its stance as being the solution to it.

[Bonadea]

I believe if you run away from your problems in any which way weather it be ignoring it, drowning it out, suicide or whatever, at some point in your existence you're going to have to deal with those problems/lessons.

[wolfgang]

suicidal individuals do not want to actually kill themselves.

they want to kill what is bothering them.

if a suicidal individual can see what they actually want to kill, they will continue living and yes, have opportunities to listen to the bothersome parts of self hood and let go of that such that it could be said to be spiritual or finding wholeness in being.

I don't think suicide solves anything, just wipes out the problem, tossing the baby out with the bath water. Suicide forever leaves whatever the issue is unresolved. Although there is no one to suffer, it was never resolved either.

[Andras]

My yoga teacher and his guru held the view that suicide is not an answer as certain karmic burden is put on you to learn and repay negative karmic debt you incurred. While this might seem extreme it is also my view. When you commit suicide to avoid certain life's burden you are just avoid the inevitable and will be forced to repeat the circumstance upon reincarnation by getting into similar life situation as before. Having said this; it is entirely possible the for the second time you will be bestowed upon more strength and ability to cope. I do not think suicide is bad or a sin - it simply IS.

Originally Posted by Arz Sra

Here is a thought-provoking article one of my friends shared with me on FB. Wanted to discuss it with you....

"SUICIDE – A PROBLEM, A SOLUTION, OR A ROADMAP TO SPIRITUALITY

People commit suicide to get rid of their problems. Human societies however reject suicides and see it as a problem. Is suicide a problem or a solution to a problem and how it relates to spirituality?

...
Ordinarily, life tends to preserve itself. We see our wounds healed up, our vital bodily needs replenished and our body protecting itself through its defense mechanism? Taking a cue from Mother Nature, human societies considered it important to preserve and sustain life. It has medical science that tries to ensure continuity of life in the eventuality of disease and casualty. It has technology and economics that tend to ensure comfortable, easy life. Every individual is important to society and therefore death of an individual is seen by it as its failure in preserving life. Society mourns deaths. This is truer in the case of death by suicide, which the society considers most unfortunate.

...
Could life problems that tend to force people into committing suicide draw people to spirituality, to discover the truth of life?

The way human societies are organised, it would never occur to any members that truth of life would be different from the truths the societies uphold. From cradle to casket, people are influenced to live in a particular way and that is the only truth for people. Indeed if someone passes his/her entire lifetime smoothly in a society, s/he would never know if a different reality existed out there. Spiritual masters see this as life of a fish in a pond who would never know she lived in water (to know water, fish has to get out of water).

The only time a person could come closer to discovering the falseness in materialistic life is when faced with acute problems and considering suicide. Here, a spiritual master could help one in discovering the truth of life, freeing oneself of all bonds.

Suicide therefore is considered a problem by the society and a solution to the problems by an individual, but a person considering suicide has the opportunity to enter spirituality too, finding a one-touch solution to all earthly problems.

- Subhash Sharma

"

Whats your view on suicide?

[nothuman]

Will we come back as a gnat? If we whack ourselves is there a comsic price to pay. Pure speculation & many schools of thought.
I am reluctant to give an opinion but at the same time strangly drawn to do so.
If I was to speculate I would say that suicide is 'time out.' No cosmic or moral judgement just simply a break. I might even go so far to say that a spirit may enter this life with the view of experiencing suicide.

[Luciddd]

In my opinion "suicide" is not a solution, your consiousness will be VERY focused on the problem it led you to kill yourself and will possibly hover towards a similar or equal situation and repeat it again, even if you dont somehow I think the Karma caused by your suicide would take place.

Now I am not about absolutism, so I think there may be some people who commit suicide and detatch their consiousness from the cause and get out of the karma but guess its like .001% of the cases. If you were capable of simply switching your consiousness from your physical existence like it is supposed some Sages have done, is the only "right" way I see of getting out willingly, as in such a state possibly the physical would be but a mirage to you anyway.

[Luciddd]

Originally Posted by nothuman

Will we come back as a gnat? If we whack ourselves is there a comsic price to pay. Pure speculation & many schools of thought.
I am reluctant to give an opinion but at the same time strangly drawn to do so.
If I was to speculate I would say that suicide is 'time out.' No cosmic or moral judgement just simply a break. I might even go so far to say that a spirit may enter this life with the view of experiencing suicide.

From what I undestand the 2 main issues with this is that your consiousness will be very attached to the problem, just like when you go to sleep with an issue, possibly you will be reborn into a reality with the problem.

Now even if you didnt you will leave a lot of Karma behind your suicide which you must one way or another pay, the karma is at the end illusory too, but still its very difficult to reach the state where you can simply dipose of it.

Again I dont deal with absolutisms, so there may be people whose consiousness is completely detached from the problem at the time and somehow avoided their karma like their Consiousness simply ignored it or disolved it or something but it would be the minority of the cases.

Now, if you were able to willingly take away your consiousness from the physical existence, not by brutally terminating your bodily functions but actually withdrawing it consiouslly and willingly separating the physical vessel and consiousness, then I am not sure and I may be wrong, but I think you could safely get out because you in full awareness and through the "correct method" of ending your life you simply jumped into another existence or non-existence or both.

[nothuman]

Originally Posted by Luciddd

From what I undestand the 2 main issues with this is that your consiousness will be very attached to the problem, just like when you go to sleep with an issue, possibly you will be reborn into a reality with the problem.

Now even if you didnt you will leave a lot of Karma behind your suicide which you must one way or another pay, the karma is at the end illusory too, but still its very difficult to reach the state where you can simply dipose of it.

Again I dont deal with absolutisms, so there may be people whose consiousness is completely detached from the problem at the time and somehow avoided their karma like their Consiousness simply ignored it or disolved it or something but it would be the minority of the cases.

Now, if you were able to willingly take away your consiousness from the physical existence, not by brutally terminating your bodily functions but actually withdrawing it consiouslly and willingly separating the physical vessel and consiousness, then I am not sure and I may be wrong, but I think you could safely get out because you in full awareness and through the "correct method" of ending your life you simply jumped into another existence or non-existence or both.

I have spoken to people from well adjusted & nurturing family backgrounds who have barely ever entertained the thought of suicide in their lives. Others suffering from traumatic upbringings have lived with thoughts of suicide & self harm constantly. After a dodgy upbringing I tried suicide on two ocassions first at 8 yo & second at 25 yo.
I have to tell you that the only thing I took from that was ' my time was not yet up'. Sounds crazy doesn't it...no remorse...no guilt, just a knowledge that my life still had places to go and that any attempt of ending it would end in failure. As a result I never tried it again and over time learnt to accept myself and my perceived damaged life.
As the OP pointed out this can lead to a motivated spiritual reach into life, it certainly did for me.
There is a feeling with me though that there is a symbiotic nature to our lives that will take us down some dark alleyways if that is where our learning lies including suicide.....where this leaves karma is a good question.

[SkylightMT]

I think suicide is a perfectly acceptable solution. I don't think there is any "karmic price" or negative consequences or retribution for killing yourself. Sometimes it is the best solution to a life in impossible and painful circumstances. Each of us has the right to choose to live or to die, and to have that choice honored.

Every death is probably a suicide. I guess it depends on what you believe. Not every death is a conscious, ego-driven suicide, but on some level, a choice is being made in every death.

[Andras]

No, I do not think we ever come back as an animal. Always human. The concept of hell is on earth, as we cycle through incarnations, it is precisely for a learning and spiritual advancement. We can only learn and purify ourselves by trial and error. All evil deeds and wrongdoings will come back to us in the future and we all have to pay the price. No ifs and buts. All good deeds work against the bad deeds and nullify them. This is commonsense and a just system. Whether you choose to believe it or not is irrelevant to me but ask yourself what is sensible, balanced and just? The Bible's heaven/hell or this?
A suicide in itself is an attempt of escaping Karma and all it's ramifications hence it is not POSSIBLE as we never really die, only on one physical level. In a future, reincarnated life you will just repeat the one you attempted to run away from, again and again until you get the message and learn. By the way this is not the subject of your belief system as so many other "laws". Some laws are universal and some are subjective, hence malleable by our mind.

Originally Posted by nothuman

Will we come back as a gnat? If we whack ourselves is there a comsic price to pay. Pure speculation & many schools of thought.
I am reluctant to give an opinion but at the same time strangly drawn to do so.
If I was to speculate I would say that suicide is 'time out.' No cosmic or moral judgement just simply a break. I might even go so far to say that a spirit may enter this life with the view of experiencing suicide.

[Bonadea]

I don't feel you get "punished" for it, but if you're doing it to run away from lessons, I think you choose to re-learn those lessons at another time.

I often look at life like college.... We come here to learn. In order to get that degree, you might have to take classes you don't like, you might have to pick teachers you don't get a long with, you might have to take classes earlier or later than you would have preferred, but that's the price you have to pay if you want to get that particular degree.

So say you choose not to do one of those, but you still want that degree, at some point you have to do it again. Maybe you wait and take the course with a different teacher.

[Sekret Weapon]

Suicide is starting over. But you are leaving with only the amount of Karma accrued to that point. Part of your togo Karma package will include the sentiment and beliefs that you most recently have been ingraining on your consciousness. The sadness, despair, anxiety, depression that is inherent in people who are suicidal IS their INTENTION. Intention (and action) is the vehicle that imprints Karma.

Everybody says "when you die you cant take it (whatever it is) with you". BS, when you die, you will be leaving with your karmic constitution. Karma comes with. So make sure you leave on good terms with yourself.

[nothuman]

Originally Posted by Andras

No, I do not think we ever come back as an animal. Always human. The concept of hell is on earth, as we cycle through incarnations, it is precisely for a learning and spiritual advancement. We can only learn and purify ourselves by trial and error. All evil deeds and wrongdoings will come back to us in the future and we all have to pay the price. No ifs and buts. All good deeds work against the bad deeds and nullify them. This is commonsense and a just system. Whether you choose to believe it or not is irrelevant to me but ask yourself what is sensible, balanced and just? The Bible's heaven/hell or this?
A suicide in itself is an attempt of escaping Karma and all it's ramifications hence it is not POSSIBLE as we never really die, only on one physical level. In a future, reincarnated life you will just repeat the one you attempted to run away from, again and again until you get the message and learn. By the way this is not the subject of your belief system as so many other "laws". Some laws are universal and some are subjective, hence malleable by our mind.

Karma is a condition of mind. It is way too dual in its structure to be anything other. When you hear of one who has transcended karma, means they have liberated from the mind and its cycles.
If I knew intuitively that my path in this life was to experience death at my own hand then I would simply follow that. Karma is a self serving condition of mind & though we very well may be in effect of its judgements our overriding need to fullfill our human reach into this life will prevail.

[nothuman]

Originally Posted by Andras

No, I do not think we ever come back as an animal. Always human. The concept of hell is on earth, as we cycle through incarnations, it is precisely for a learning and spiritual advancement. We can only learn and purify ourselves by trial and error. All evil deeds and wrongdoings will come back to us in the future and we all have to pay the price. No ifs and buts. All good deeds work against the bad deeds and nullify them. This is commonsense and a just system. Whether you choose to believe it or not is irrelevant to me but ask yourself what is sensible, balanced and just? The Bible's heaven/hell or this?
A suicide in itself is an attempt of escaping Karma and all it's ramifications hence it is not POSSIBLE as we never really die, only on one physical level. In a future, reincarnated life you will just repeat the one you attempted to run away from, again and again until you get the message and learn. By the way this is not the subject of your belief system as so many other "laws". Some laws are universal and some are subjective, hence malleable by our mind.

Karma is a condition of mind. It is way too dual in its structure to be anything other. When you hear of one who has transcended karma, means they have liberated from the mind and its cycles.
If I knew intuitively that my path in this life was to experience death at my own hand then I would simply follow that. Karma is a self serving condition of mind & though we very well may be in effect of its judgements our overriding need to fullfill our human reach into this life will prevail.

[VinceG]

I think it's foolish to commit suicide because you're enlightened, and pretty much means you're not really enlightened. These people will probably end up in another body atoning for the negative karma they engendered because of their suicide. Now, some people end up shedding their mortal coil upon becoming enlightened, that's different because it wasn't really their conscious decision to leave their bodies.

If you have a family and friends that depend on you, you're depriving them of very real spiritual advancement by cutting yourself out of your life. For your parents, the grief of burying their child may well halt their advancement for that lifetime as well.

Now some people commit suicide because they can't see a way out of their current situation. The growth they would need is more painful than death. These suicides are unavoidable and we're stuck with them until we can create a society that doesn't make certain kinds of growth so painful on people.

[Andras]

-nothuman;
Karma is a derivation of the Universal law of cause->effect and it is unavoidable and undeniable - even if you post about it twice

[nothuman]

Originally Posted by Andras

-nothuman;
Karma is a derivation of the Universal law of cause->effect and it is unavoidable and undeniable - even if you post about it twice

m

haha imposing my will... I question the written in stone concept of karma being a
manditory and undeniable force being bought
into being by cosmic law...... my own
observations show it to be a state of mind
impinging so called justice upon the
perceived wrong doer.
Karma is judgement based where as cause and effect is not. Karma is the minds ugly twin brother of cause and effect.

[DarkTears]

not everyone who wants to do suicide.........................I forgot...........anyways oh yea, ........................you know what........nvm......im not going to talk about this...................

[truthbebold]

I don't view suicide as right or wrong, it just is as someone stated above

Originally Posted by nothuman

Will we come back as a gnat? If we whack ourselves is there a comsic price to pay. Pure speculation & many schools of thought.
I am reluctant to give an opinion but at the same time strangly drawn to do so.
If I was to speculate I would say that suicide is 'time out.' No cosmic or moral judgement just simply a break. I might even go so far to say that a spirit may enter this life with the view of experiencing suicide.

I've been wondering about this

what if taking your own life was part of your plan, and people in your entourage have to learn to cope with that sort of pain (for their own growth) ?

it's hard to believe each case of suicide has to do w/ trying to suppress the pain or make someone else feel bad/guilty as an intent

what if you're fed up with watching people live for appearances & chase after illusions ? what if you're genuinely bored with the 3D realm ?

do you have to patiently wait for death ?

[RonSouther]

My mother committed suicide....

The morning of the suicide, my neighbor said my mom was outside in the backyard, smiling, at peace.

It was her solution to a mind that wouldn't rest...she never found herself, her own joy. She needed situations and people around her to be her happiness and kept failing and failing. Her mind logically came up with "kill yourself and no more problems". Her mind didn't come up with "know yourself and no more problems" because the mind can't see the self. It's just a logical biocomputer and a memory bank.

So the body followed the mind's orders and she died.

[qwertyportne]

Thanks everyone, I think you all have made some very valid points.

For me, grief was the catalyst for thoughts about suicide. When my wife died, I entertained the idea of checking out, permanently, and researched ways to do it. What was the point of going on? Despite the things I did without her, and versa vice, my life had been 40 years of this wonderful togetherness. She had provided a kind of context, a home base, a playing field for everything we did together and apart. The disconnect was overwhelming.

But one morning I woke up with an ephipany: she is dead but I am alive. A no-brainer, of course, for anybody NOT walking through that long dark tunnel called grief. With that mindset, I saw suicide as a shortcut, and that led me to become curious about what might happen that day and the next. So I let grief have its way with me, because it became obvious that avoiding that long dark tunnel was also a shortcut and not a good one. When I came out the other end, saw the light so to speak, I kept on keeping on, and life has surprised me again and again with reasons to avoid shortcuts, to see the spiritual advantage of going through life and all its ups and downs, not around them. Perhaps some of you will find my mindset beneficial to yours...

Bill