Can you be spiritual without believing in GOD

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject

Those are just assumptions, based upon your assumed definition of the distinctly NON-PHYSICAL aspect of our consciousness, termed 'knowing'.

In dreamless deep sleep, if that is your parameter of discussion; you are most certainly there - just ask the guy bustling in your hedgerow, secretly clicking images of your semi-naked physicality with his panamoric lens.

Secondly, please explain how, whilst your weren't there, you actually became aware of the tinkle issuing from your alarm clock (which was there) at the designated moment of arousal?


Is that another assumption I hear a-bustling in your hedgerow? Or perhaps you'd care to elucidate your definition of ‘knowing’ a little further?

If you put back you light saber I'd be glad to answer your questions. And if you could ask questions that do not treat the physical as an established fact all the betterer.

[Apopohis Reject]

Originally Posted by Reefs

If you put back you light saber I'd be glad to answer your questions. And if you could ask questions that do not treat the physical as an established fact all the betterer.

I have no light saber or anything like it, and if I did I wouldn't have any interest in weilding it around my friends.

Secondly, may I enquire how anyone can possibly ask questions as if the physical is less than an established fact?

We all live our entire lives - every second of it, as locked into a physical portion of a physical planet, which is in turn locked into the physical environment of that planet, as we generally term 'earth'. As far as I can tell; although not the entire definition of existence, these are not assumptions. Yet if it helps you to assume they are; perhaps you'd care to enlighten a more than willing reject, as to such peculiar definition?

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject

We all live our entire lives - every second of it, as locked into a physical portion of a physical planet, which is in turn locked into the physical environment of that planet, as we generally term 'earth'. As far as I can tell;

That's exactly what I am questioning and why I brought up that dreamless deep sleep matter. In dreamless deep sleep you don't know who you are, what you are or where you are. So this earth existence can't be all there is to your existence. And you are not locked into it. Sleep sets you free.

What happens in the waking state seems to be stable. When you fall asleep and wake up again it seems that you return to where you've just left. Therefore the impression that this physical existence is so solid and real and undeniable.

But what happens in your dream state also seems to be stable as long as you are still dreaming. There suddenly appears a whole world in your dream state and it seems as if that's all there is and always was and always will be. But when you wake up, you know it was just an appearance. And when you fall asleep again and start dreaming, your waking state world becomes the status of appearance also.

And in dreamless deep sleep both waking state and dream state are gone. So neither physical nor non-physical are stable. They come and go. They are appearances only. They don't stand in their own right.

[GoingUnder]

Of course you can. Good grief. What has god to do with anything?

[cassiopeia]

I am very spiritual. I don't believe in a God as such - that is, I don't believe that there is a God that exists separately from any of us. God doesn't exist - God is existance itself.

[DonJuan]

Originally Posted by ButterflyWoman

The question I would ponder is this: What is this god-thing you either "believe in" or "don't believe in", and what does "believe in" even mean in this context?

Thats my point of view too. Its all a thing of definition. Some people say they are spiritual but not believe in god, because by god they mean something religious. For others its the other way around.

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by SkylightMT

I guess it comes down to how one defines god.

Originally Posted by ButterflyWoman

Well, yes. That's what it comes down to, I think.

This.

I frequently get the Jehovah's Witnesses knocking at my door to simply go away, after I tell them that I don't believe in an anthropomorphic God. The very term gets some very confused looks, but in the end, they just assume I'm an atheist, and go away.

And, I'm okay with that.

Originally Posted by Reefs

Looks like you were reading Carlos Castaneda.

Reading Don Juan is like taking an acid trip without taking the acid. Seriously.

[Apopohis Reject]

Originally Posted by Beingist

This.

I frequently get the Jehovah's Witnesses knocking at my door to simply go away, after I tell them that I don't believe in an anthropomorphic God. The very term gets some very confused looks, but in the end, they just assume I'm an atheist, and go away.

And, I'm okay with that.

Well Beingist, I'm not a JW nor going away, so I'm asking the question - exactly what are you referring to, when you say that you don't believe in an anthropormorphic god? I mean; statements of negativity generally leave the door unlocked for a peek into the positive, so please; rather than what you've reasoned against, please explore re. this context; in what do you believe?

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject

Well Beingist, I'm not a JW nor going away, so I'm asking the question - exactly what are you referring to, when you say that you don't believe in an anthropormorphic god? I mean; statements of negativity generally leave the door unlocked for a peek into the positive, so please; rather than what you've reasoned against, please explore re. this context; in what do you believe?

Good question, and one that deserves an answer. (If you were a JW, I'd answer, also )

To me, God Is What Is (as in, "I Am Who Am"). It's not that God exists, but that God is, as the Catholic Theologians put it, the "essence of existence". I exist, therefore God is my essence (but, of course, since God is the essence of all existence, then God is your essence, too ) Ask any further questions you'd like, but bear in mind, I will always come back to that.

Otherwise, I don't really even like to use the term, God. Reality works better for me. That, or, as my username suggests, Being.

[Apopohis Reject]

Originally Posted by Beingist

To me, God Is What Is (as in, "I Am Who Am"). It's not that God exists, but that God is, as the Catholic Theologians put it, the "essence of existence". I exist, therefore God is my essence (but, of course, since God is the essence of all existence, then God is your essence, too ) Ask any further questions you'd like, but bear in mind, I will always come back to that.

Otherwise, I don't really even like to use the term, God. Reality works better for me. That, or, as my username suggests, Being

Thank you Beingist - I very much like your site name, BTW.

I also like the sound of "the essence of existence", and even though I've never heard any Catholic theologian using these words, I'd still be required to look behind the reasoning of the person saying them - which as far as the theologian would be concerned, I'd expect to be in reference to some anthropomorphic combination being - an indeterminate blend of a physical 'human, man' somewhere in the sky, enjoying some non-human quality called 'spiritual/ity'.

Of course, this source of underlying deference, is where the theologian and I have a distinct, irreconcilable divergence. For I also steer clear of the term 'god', and far more appreciate your "reality works better for me", so if you please; explore how this works for you?

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject

Of course, this source of underlying deference, is where the theologian and I have a distinct, irreconcilable divergence. For I also steer clear of the term 'god', and far more appreciate your "reality works better for me", so if you please; explore how this works for you?

How this "works for me" is the result of syllogism that, despite all my efforts, I could not refute:

Truth is that which is so.
That which is not Truth is not so.
Therefore, Truth is all there is.

Later, I came to understand the Truth=Reality=Love=God=All.

I ran this across an old work buddy some years ago, and he said, "yep. What Is, Is." To which I responded, "yep. Works for me."

[DonJuan]

Originally Posted by cassiopeia

I am very spiritual. I don't believe in a God as such - that is, I don't believe that there is a God that exists separately from any of us. God doesn't exist - God is existance itself.

Yeah, I totally agree

[DonJuan]

One more thing: I don't believe much in believing itself. I don't say there is something wrong with believing, but I prefer experiencing and through that there comes knowing. Then there is no question anymore if you should believe or not, you just know. This is what i really like at the Buddhist religion. And if somebody would force me to choose a religion I would choose Buddhism for exactly that reason.

(Of course they have believsystems as well, but nobody is perfect)