Can you really change a deep, subconscious belief??

[pinky3]

I just want to know if it's possible. There are some thing I don't even really know I believe, but when situations come up I surprise myself by my reactions to things.

There are some religious beliefs I really want to change, but really don't know how..?

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by pinky3

I just want to know if it's possible. There are some thing I don't even really know I believe, but when situations come up I surprise myself by my reactions to things.

There are some religious beliefs I really want to change, but really don't know how..?

It is very possible.

In my opinion, people make too much of the "subconscious mind". Conceptualizing it in this way, it makes it seem like there is this nefarious alter ego inside us, creating our life for us, while we sit helplessly on the sidelines. In reality, the subconscious is just an amalgamation of conscious patterns of thought you held so long they became "second nature". You got so efficient and practiced at thinking these thoughts, that you didn't have to think about them anymore consciously, in much the same way that you don't really have to think about breathing, or operating the individual muscles in your legs when you walk. It's all become thoughtless, in a sense.

At least, that is what it feels like when you've done it for so long. These "deeper" thoughts are statements about reality. When a statement about reality becomes deeply ingrained, we call it a belief.

So a belief is just a thought you keep thinking. A thought, or focus, that you've returned to so many times that you think it by default. You've become so good at thinking it you don't even realize you are thinking it a good deal of the time.

So how do you create a new belief?

Think a different thought. Make a different statement about reality. Tell a new story.

At first, it won't seem valid or real. But keep telling the new story, and over time, you will practice it into the same state of efficiency that your other "subconscious" belief was at. At some point, you will feel it begin to even feel true. Then success is within earshot.

[zeitgeist]

Originally Posted by pinky3

I just want to know if it's possible. There are some thing I don't even really know I believe, but when situations come up I surprise myself by my reactions to things.

There are some religious beliefs I really want to change, but really don't know how..?

My hunch is that if you always show up for life despite your fears and if you study your surprising reactions, life has a habit of getting these unconscious patterns out in the open. And once you understand where they are coming from, they disappear.

[ButterflyWoman]

Yes. Entirely possible. May take a while.

Intention plus surrender. Intend (decide, choose, etc.) and then let go and let the process work through, whatever it ends up being.

One thing that a lot of people find helpful is to have some alternative belief they prefer, so when they can loosen the old belief enough, they kind of slowly wedge the new one in to where the old one was.

Mind you, the ultimate goal might be to get rid of all beliefs (not just the religious ones), and replace them with what I call "best working hypotheses", which may be changed as necessary.

For a start, though, intention plus surrender. Intend to release these beliefs, and then let the process work.

[Andras]

The subconscious is rarely about religious beliefs. It is about more primal emotions - fears, phobias bad habits or childhood conditioning etc. If you wish to change these primal, instinctive emotions go after your subconscious. If you wish to change your religious beliefs, just contemplate and believe what deep down makes sense to you, voiding all other input from family, friends etc. they do not know any more than you.

Originally Posted by pinky3

I just want to know if it's possible. There are some thing I don't even really know I believe, but when situations come up I surprise myself by my reactions to things.

There are some religious beliefs I really want to change, but really don't know how..?

[desertrat]

You can , do deep breathing until you reach relaxation . Visualize your higher self as a point of white light in deep space ask your higher self to fill a subconscious belief with white light . Keep breathing until the belief is gone. desert rat

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Anagogy

So how do you create a new belief?

Think a different thought. Make a different statement about reality. Tell a new story.

At first, it won't seem valid or real. But keep telling the new story, and over time, you will practice it into the same state of efficiency that your other "subconscious" belief was at. At some point, you will feel it begin to even feel true. Then success is within earshot.

My opinion is that how well this works depends on how unconscious one is. IOW, the more unconscious, the more suggestible, and more likely one is to believe one's own thoughts. The difficulty is that this degree of unconsciousness means one's actual beliefs and motivations are probably not consciously known.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by desertrat

You can , do deep breathing until you reach relaxation . Visualize your higher self as a point of white light in deep space ask your higher self to fill a subconscious belief with white light . Keep breathing until the belief is gone. desert rat

Do you believe that works?

[nothuman]

It sounds like to me that certain thoughts or patterns are starting to become conscious as well. From the point of being aware of the thought / belief intention will see you through. Watch it with intent. An unconscious belief is simply that ...unconscious, when you start being conscious of it then you can act.

[Le Roi]

Yes, you can. I have. With the proper tools. There are many out there. I prefer deep guided angel meditation, but NLP and a number of other tools out there exists to allow you to change your beliefs rather fast so you don't have to spend years at it.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by pinky3

I just want to know if it's possible. There are some thing I don't even really know I believe, but when situations come up I surprise myself by my reactions to things.

There are some religious beliefs I really want to change, but really don't know how..?

You may have a belief which irks you, which you want to change, like 'God created me'.

On one level, you disagree with it (it's illogical, it doesn't make sense) but it still hangs in there.
Perhaps, the reason it persists is because at a deeper level, there is some truth in it.
It is just a matter of re-interpreting it.

No matter what religion or denomination you may be at odds with, it still contains some truth, and you can still derive much fulfillment from re-interpreting apparently silly and preposterous teachings.

So, you could change that belief to, 'There is an unknowable, divine ground from which all life, light, love and truth emanates. The person I truly am emanates from that. That divine ground is my home, it is my birthright, so as of today I reclaim it and embrace it with joy'. It is, basically, the same belief.

In that way, you are integrating the belief at a deeper level, rather than creating an opposing 'force' to believe in, in the hope that will conquer a belief which might be true anyway.

Many personally grating, clashing beliefs can be reconciled in that way, even stuff like, 'I am worthless; I am a failure', etc, can be dealt with in the same way.

Go beyond the words and beyond the 'apparent' meaning which is bothering you and search for a deeper definition.

[pinky3]

Thanks for all of your replies.

There are a lot of useful suggestions.

I think religion and parenting come hand in hand for me. I suppose it's true though that these beliefs and thought are very conscious... I have the power to change them if I truly wish to do so.

@ Caterpillar woman... I like that. Intention plus surrender.

To open up a but about the beliefs. They are based on sexuality and religions warped views on everything. I also grew up with a mom who found a lot of thing "disgusting" that I now feel should be normal. But my gut instinct is to think... "disgusting"...
It's weird. I can't seem to shake it.

Yet... on a different note. I used to believe that homosexuality was wrong. Now that I'm older and have my own opinions, I don't belief anything of the sort. I completely accept any person's sexual preference without a second thought....
That shows me it's possible to change a belief. Just got to try...

[desertrat]

Originally Posted by Arcanum

Do you believe that works?

I dont think this is a one size fits all exercise . Some stuff works for some and not others.A lot depends on personal beliefs . There is only one way to find out . desert rat

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by pinky3

Thanks for all of your replies.

There are a lot of useful suggestions.

I think religion and parenting come hand in hand for me. I suppose it's true though that these beliefs and thought are very conscious... I have the power to change them if I truly wish to do so.

@ Caterpillar woman... I like that. Intention plus surrender.

To open up a but about the beliefs. They are based on sexuality and religions warped views on everything. I also grew up with a mom who found a lot of thing "disgusting" that I now feel should be normal. But my gut instinct is to think... "disgusting"...
It's weird. I can't seem to shake it.

Yet... on a different note. I used to believe that homosexuality was wrong. Now that I'm older and have my own opinions, I don't belief anything of the sort. I completely accept any person's sexual preference without a second thought....
That shows me it's possible to change a belief. Just got to try...

Beliefs are a reflection of our experiences, and ironically also the 'cause' of them. Impressions are 'tested out' in experience by paying attention to what actually seems to be happening with regard to those impressions, and what will happen will generally follow that impression, gradually strengthening the belief, and therefore the experience of the validity of that belief. This is why most beliefs are so intractable; they reflect our actual experience whether they are objectively true in some way or not.

This is why beliefs can't be changed through some kind of method or choice to do so. They aren't the result of choices to begin with. If it seems that a belief has changed, it's the result of gaining a deeper clarity, which is then reflected in our experience just as the old belief was. Beliefs clearly change, but not because we choose to change them.

For some who are relatively unconscious, and therefore highly suggestible, beliefs can sometimes be altered through what amounts to a kind of self hypnosis. However, the unconsciousness implies that there's no real awareness of the structure of one's beliefs/thoughts/feelings/motivations to begin with, and so trying to alter beliefs can be problematic.

[VinceG]

You can't change a belief if you don't know what it is. You have to pull it out of your subconscious first. Then, it's pretty easy. Just change it to something else.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by VinceG

You can't change a belief if you don't know what it is. You have to pull it out of your subconscious first. Then, it's pretty easy. Just change it to something else.

You can't change a belief by choosing to, you can only pretend to do that, or else notice that a belief has changed and then claim that you changed it by choosing something else.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Arcanum

You can't change a belief by choosing to, you can only pretend to do that, or else notice that a belief has changed and then claim that you changed it by choosing something else.

You keep making all these authoritative claims to reality. "You can't do this, you can't do that." I can't decide whether you're just young and have a need to be right or just like to argue about stuff that's ultimately meaningless. Either way, this is why I don't respond to anything you say.

[ChrisGinsburg]

Originally Posted by VinceG

You keep making all these authoritative claims to reality. "You can't do this, you can't do that." I can't decide whether you're just young and have a need to be right or just like to argue about stuff that's ultimately meaningless. Either way, this is why I don't respond to anything you say.

Why is it meaningless and if so, what's your interest in the subject?

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by ChrisGinsburg

Why is it meaningless and if so, what's your interest in the subject?

I'm not interested in discussing whether it's possible to change a belief, because anybody who thinks the negative is just plain wrong. It's meaningless because there's about as much point arguing it as in arguing whether the sky's blue. Sure, you could get into a drawn out debate over the meaning of color, but that's not going to change the sky.

[ChrisGinsburg]

Originally Posted by VinceG

because anybody who thinks the negative is just plain wrong.

Huh?

[ChrisGinsburg]

Originally Posted by VinceG

I'm not interested in discussing whether it's possible to change a belief

Then why in the world are you partaking in a discussion labeled "Can you really change a deep, subconscious belief??"?

[VinceG]

You're wrong if you think you can't change a belief.

Sorry for the confusion.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by ChrisGinsburg

Then why in the world are you partaking in a discussion labeled "Can you really change a deep, subconscious belief??"?

Deep, subconscious belief.

[ChrisGinsburg]

Originally Posted by VinceG

Deep, subconscious belief.

You appeared to give a formula earlier for this no? How does one pull a belief out of their subconscious? Especially if they don't know what it is to begin with since after all, it is subconscious.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by VinceG

You keep making all these authoritative claims to reality. "You can't do this, you can't do that." I can't decide whether you're just young and have a need to be right or just like to argue about stuff that's ultimately meaningless. Either way, this is why I don't respond to anything you say.

I was responding to your 'authoritative claim' that it's easy, just change it to something else. My claim contradicts your claim and that's why you don't like to respond. If I authoritatively declared you're right, you'd likely be happy to respond.

Setting your attempt to distract aside for a moment, take a look at where your beliefs come from and you'll see that it's not subject to your choosing. You believe because you believe. If you 'believe' because you want to, then it's not really a belief, just a superficial pretense of self delusion. You're free to change your mind about your self delusions, but they don't mean anything because you don't really believe them.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by ChrisGinsburg

Then why in the world are you partaking in a discussion labeled "Can you really change a deep, subconscious belief??"?

What he means is that he's not interested in discussing it, only in authoritatively declaring the truth. To him, discussing it would be like discussing whether the sky is blue.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by ChrisGinsburg

How does one pull a belief out of their subconscious?

Introspection. You start with something that doesn't seem right and probe into your mind until you find the subconscious belief causing the errant behavior.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Arcanum

I was responding to your 'authoritative claim' that it's easy, just change it to something else.

The OP asked a question for anyone to answer. I didn't ask you anything.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by VinceG

The OP asked a question for anyone to answer. I didn't ask you anything.

Are you always so childish or is this some new errant subconscious behavior?

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Arcanum

Are you always so childish

Ordinarily I would just ignore you. But this would have been the third or fourth time this exact dynamic happens where you directly address me, and I completely ignore you, for the exact same reason, so I thought it warranted an explanation, which I don't necessarily expect you to understand, but I'll give it anyway because it'd be rude not to. I don't ordinarily ignore people who address me directly.