How can you be both aware & passionate?

[Perspective]

How do you keep passion in your life when you realize reasoning behind what you've felt passionate about is illusional?
IE: Romantic relationships at first seemed so incredible because we were focusing on the good & ignoring the bad. Then, I realized more of everything, life got stressful, & passion is lacking.
IE: Religous beliefs & involvement used to inspire me, but now that I realize more about it, it doesn't inspire me anymore, & I miss connecting with others.

I realize now, that whenever I feel inspired, it's not so much the object of inspiration that is doing it, but my appreciation or resonating with it. I want to feel that more often... yet it seems to be illusive. Maybe I'm too aware & not passionate enough.
How do you fool yourself after you know you're fooling yourself?
I read, "Functional illusions are priceless."
What are (functional illusions) higher reasons to be passionate... that won't let me down?
Or is being let down part of passion?

[ChrisGinsburg]

Originally Posted by Perspective

How do you keep passion in your life when you realize reasoning behind what you've felt passionate about is illusional?
IE: Romantic relationships at first seemed so incredible because we were focusing on the good & ignoring the bad. Then, I realized more of everything, life got stressful, & passion is lacking.
IE: Religous beliefs & involvement used to inspire me, but now that I realize more about it, it doesn't inspire me anymore, & I miss connecting with others.

I realize now, that whenever I feel inspired, it's not so much the object of inspiration that is doing it, but my appreciation or resonating with it. I want to feel that more often... yet it seems to be illusive. Maybe I'm too aware & not passionate enough.
How do you fool yourself after you know you're fooling yourself?
I read, "Functional illusions are priceless."
What are (functional illusions) higher reasons to be passionate... that won't let me down?
Or is being let down part of passion?

Too much complexity going on here. It sounds like you're grasping at previous experiences which will always be sorely disappointing and elusive. If you can stop grasping long enough to notice what is and always has been there you may be surprised what you find.

[wstein]

Perspective, I also notice that lack of much to be passionate about. Not much of any real interest happens on this little planet. I understand it’s a side effect of taking a much wider view. Even a planet does not dominate the view. If one were to take a more ‘local’ view, the local things would seem more important, but that is an illusion of perspective. Illusions of any size are equally nothing to get stirred up about. No answers for you, just saying I feel the same way.

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by wstein

Perspective, I also notice that lack of much to be passionate about. Not much of any real interest happens on this little planet. I understand it’s a side effect of taking a much wider view. Even a planet does not dominate the view. If one were to take a more ‘local’ view, the local things would seem more important, but that is an illusion of perspective. Illusions of any size are equally nothing to get stirred up about. No answers for you, just saying I feel the same way.

It's a question of focus, specific or general focus. The more specifically focused the more is going on. The more general, the more things seem to slow down or become irrelevant. Because there is not much to tell a story about. Your story gets boring.

But if you don't feel the need to tell a story, then the focus doesn't matter because what you are looking at is not influencing your state of being. Just being is enough, doesn't matter if you are sitting in an overcrowded train or in a cave in the Himalayas. What happens or doesn't happen does not affect your state of being.

[zeitgeist]

Perhaps you can give the Bhagavad Gita a try if you haven't already. The Gita argues that the transition from passion into serenity is a sign of spiritual maturity. I too have experienced a lot of back and forth; Previous passions turned much less meaningful. Experiment with these concepts, what else can you do ...


All the best,

Zeitgeist

[Arcanum]

Interest in the illusions fuels the horizontal movement of life that we generally call seeking. We can be passionate about love, fame, fortune, self improvement, fixing the world, whatever, and the interest will continue as long as the illusions are believed to be real, and then the interest will subside. Passion for that movement will wane and the things that excite, entertain and drive others will be of little interest to you.

It's not a problem to be solved but just the natural evolution of consciousness toward transcendence of the illusion. There is a transition from the horizontal movement along the surface of life, to a vertical movement into the depth of life, and as the forward movement slows, it can seem as though something is wrong; that something has been lost.

If there is a hesitation to enter into that depth, there can be a stagnation that feels quite empty. Life has lost it's imagined meaning formulated on the basis of our delusions, but it has not yet been replaced by the sense of the sacred, the opening of the heart to the miracle that presents itself in this moment as the movement of Love itself.

The difficulty is that the horizontal movement is very personal. Passion is derived from the potential of accomplishing a personal goal, but the vertical movement is not personal, and so to bring mind and heart into the depths of life is actually to dissolve into that ocean. The person clings to his personal raft that had always promised fulfillment but every island turned out to be a cloud on the horizon and every passing ship just a sea bird. There is no place a human can be that is more empty than clinging to a useless raft, no longer passionate about reaching the shore, but unwilling to drown in the heart of God. This is the point of deep depression for many spiritual seekers.

There is a Love that permeates all of existence. There is a Peace more stable than granite. There is an unspeakable depth of feeling, power, mystery and wonder. Joy without reason, contentment without cause, Love with no mistress, Being without a self.

[MariconesUnited]

Originally Posted by Arcanum

Interest in the illusions fuels the horizontal movement of life that we generally call seeking. We can be passionate about love, fame, fortune, self improvement, fixing the world, whatever, and the interest will continue as long as the illusions are believed to be real, and then the interest will subside. Passion for that movement will wane and the things that excite, entertain and drive others will be of little interest to you.

It's not a problem to be solved but just the natural evolution of consciousness toward transcendence of the illusion. There is a transition from the horizontal movement along the surface of life, to a vertical movement into the depth of life, and as the forward movement slows, it can seem as though something is wrong; that something has been lost.

If there is a hesitation to enter into that depth, there can be a stagnation that feels quite empty. Life has lost it's imagined meaning formulated on the basis of our delusions, but it has not yet been replaced by the sense of the sacred, the opening of the heart to the miracle that presents itself in this moment as the movement of Love itself.

The difficulty is that the horizontal movement is very personal. Passion is derived from the potential of accomplishing a personal goal, but the vertical movement is not personal, and so to bring mind and heart into the depths of life is actually to dissolve into that ocean. The person clings to his personal raft that had always promised fulfillment but every island turned out to be a cloud on the horizon and every passing ship just a sea bird. There is no place a human can be that is more empty than clinging to a useless raft, no longer passionate about reaching the shore, but unwilling to drown in the heart of God. This is the point of deep depression for many spiritual seekers.

There is a Love that permeates all of existence. There is a Peace more stable than granite. There is an unspeakable depth of feeling, power, mystery and wonder. Joy without reason, contentment without cause, Love with no mistress, Being without a self.

That was beautiful and touching. Some of it echoes my personal experience. But I'm curious, what makes you think Love permeates existence itself?

My own personal answer to the question of finding passion in a world of illusion? I don't think illusion is the right word. I think the universe we perceive is quite real, but it's only the tip of the iceberg. I think the material affects the immaterial and vice versa. And our perceptions are distorted by the limits of our own senses and minds. Pierce the veil. I think there's plenty to be passionate about with this perspective.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by MariconesUnited

That was beautiful and touching. Some of it echoes my personal experience. But I'm curious, what makes you think Love permeates existence itself?

Love is impersonal and it move in/as the unfolding of life itself. This becomes apparent only when the personal concept of love is seen through and released. Love as a dualistic concept/feeling seems to be in opposition to non-love such that it is dependent upon conditions in our experience. Love is then treated as a kind of quantity that can be found, lost, given, and rejected.

When the conditions that define this concept are seen to be illusory extensions of the personal self, these conditions fall away, and there is ONLY Love, moving as it will, in everything. This renders Love as nodualistic because it is unopposed, and therefore cannot be absent. It's presence is not dependent upon any conditions and is therefore foundational to existence itself. Love is existence, which is what you are beyond the person. This is unconditional Love, which cannot be under the jurisdiction of a person.

[Perspective]

Thanks for your thoughtful comments.
You're helping me figure this out more & I appreciate it.

ChrisGinsburg,
You nailed it. I am grasping for past experiences (that were not very functional I might add) that just don't cut it anymore. I know that essentially, all of my experiences are filtered through my mind & soul, so I need to quiet my superficial "ego" drives, so I can feel the depth of my soul's peace & drive.

WStein,
Thanks for empathizing with me. It's good to know I'm not the only one who's dealt with this.

Reefs,
Struggling with co-dependency, I find it challenging to balance not being overly affected by anybody or anything, with having a open heart to influences.

Zeitgeist,
It would be nice to have a sort-of mental well, to dip into to find serenity (esp. in times of trauma) or passion - that gives us a drive to give more even long after we feel like quiting.

Arcanum,
Maybe that's it - to explore the depth of life itself... to appreciate the amazing mathematical geometry in creation, sunsets that are beyond any painting you've ever seen, what a certain look or gesture might mean...
Maybe it's not just 1 thing that gives passion, but many little things...
I don't know.
I'm realizing for most of my life, my god was guys... romance. It was a concrete (well more cushiony than that lol) way of resonating with LOVE (which I think God is). Yet, infatuation tends to be very superficial, conditional & selfish (obsessed with how the image of another makes us feel). Still, it's so much easier loving (passionately worshiping) another person, than the abyss... especially when it's been such a habit for most of my life to look externally, not internally.
I want to always strive for what's best, but maybe that's not always in my control & I need to just be part of the flow... to go with life (love/what's best for me & others), not be stubborn about my own agenda. Yet, goals are part of passion.
(Sigh - complexity is right. lol)

MariconesUnited,
I agree, that we only see the tip of the iceberg.
Would you expand more on piercing the veil of our perceptions?
Or maybe it's not anything you could put in words - just experience?
Are you referring to serenity (acceptance/appreciation) or passion (that makes you want to do something)?

[lilarose]

Originally Posted by Arcanum

.

If there is a hesitation to enter into that depth, there can be a stagnation that feels quite empty. Life has lost it's imagined meaning formulated on the basis of our delusions, but it has not yet been replaced by the sense of the sacred, the opening of the heart to the miracle that presents itself in this moment as the movement of Love itself.

The difficulty is that the horizontal movement is very personal. Passion is derived from the potential of accomplishing a personal goal, but the vertical movement is not personal, and so to bring mind and heart into the depths of life is actually to dissolve into that ocean. The person clings to his personal raft that had always promised fulfillment but every island turned out to be a cloud on the horizon and every passing ship just a sea bird. There is no place a human can be that is more empty than clinging to a useless raft, no longer passionate about reaching the shore, but unwilling to drown in the heart of God. This is the point of deep depression for many spiritual seekers.

There is a Love that permeates all of existence. There is a Peace more stable than granite. There is an unspeakable depth of feeling, power, mystery and wonder. Joy without reason, contentment without cause, Love with no mistress, Being without a self.

Arcanum,

All that you've said was beautiful!

Though there seems to be a loss, something much bigger happens...every movement in life feels like a miracle, so perfect and magical...even a paper tumbling in the wind. To judge someone feels like removing them from beauty itself, like shutting my eyes to the entirety of whom they are, and I am.

Perspective, yes it's the little things that leave you in amazement.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by lilarose

Arcanum,

All that you've said was beautiful!

Though there seems to be a loss, something much bigger happens...every movement in life feels like a miracle, so perfect and magical...even a paper tumbling in the wind. To judge someone feels like removing them from beauty itself, like shutting my eyes to the entirety of whom they are, and I am.

Yes, the judgment is the introduction of the person into the experience, along with his ideas of how life should be, which effectively obscures what it actually is.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by Reefs

But if you don't feel the need to tell a story, then the focus doesn't matter because what you are looking at is not influencing your state of being.

That's me, I have no interest in story.

[MariconesUnited]

Originally Posted by Perspective

Thanks for your thoughtful comments.
You're helping me figure this out more & I appreciate it.

Zeitgeist,
It would be nice to have a sort-of mental well, to dip into to find serenity (esp. in times of trauma) or passion - that gives us a drive to give more even long after we feel like quiting.

This well exists and it is possible to deepen its impact. Meditation and yoga help me personally in this respect.

Originally Posted by Perspective

Arcanum,
Maybe that's it - to explore the depth of life itself... to appreciate the amazing mathematical geometry in creation, sunsets that are beyond any painting you've ever seen, what a certain look or gesture might mean...
Maybe it's not just 1 thing that gives passion, but many little things...
I don't know.
I'm realizing for most of my life, my god was guys... romance. It was a concrete (well more cushiony than that lol) way of resonating with LOVE (which I think God is). Yet, infatuation tends to be very superficial, conditional & selfish (obsessed with how the image of another makes us feel). Still, it's so much easier loving (passionately worshiping) another person, than the abyss... especially when it's been such a habit for most of my life to look externally, not internally.
I want to always strive for what's best, but maybe that's not always in my control & I need to just be part of the flow... to go with life (love/what's best for me & others), not be stubborn about my own agenda. Yet, goals are part of passion.
(Sigh - complexity is right. lol)

If it means anything I can totally relate to what you're saying here. I've grown to appreciate my own solitude but now...I'm lonely

I suppose the challenge is in finding the way of the middle, as the Buddha put it!

Originally Posted by Perspective

MariconesUnited,
I agree, that we only see the tip of the iceberg.
Would you expand more on piercing the veil of our perceptions?
Or maybe it's not anything you could put in words - just experience?
Are you referring to serenity (acceptance/appreciation) or passion (that makes you want to do something)?

What I mean by "piercing the veil" is to expand knowledge and awareness of what is. There's many ways to work towards that end. Spiritual, philosophical, rational and scientific. That's all I can think of for now. Science helps dispel ignorance. Maybe using the most clichéd example in history I think Galileo showed that our perception that the Earth is flat is flat wrong. Teehee.

Spiritually, one can make inroads into understanding the deeper nature of reality through meditation or yoga. Feeling the depth of reality and increasing our latent skills and senses can go a long way into understanding.

I wasn't touching upon the question of passion vs. serenity but since you did I thought it was a good idea to do so! I think different situations call for different reactions. Sometimes passion is necessary. Sometimes it will cloud your judgement. The key is in knowing which moment is which. This is where meditation comes in. I think ideally one is serene about the present moment while being conscious of current problems and looking for long-term solutions. The way of the middle. Again. Easier said than done, I know!

[MariconesUnited]

Originally Posted by Arcanum

Love is impersonal and it move in/as the unfolding of life itself. This becomes apparent only when the personal concept of love is seen through and released. Love as a dualistic concept/feeling seems to be in opposition to non-love such that it is dependent upon conditions in our experience. Love is then treated as a kind of quantity that can be found, lost, given, and rejected.

When the conditions that define this concept are seen to be illusory extensions of the personal self, these conditions fall away, and there is ONLY Love, moving as it will, in everything. This renders Love as nodualistic because it is unopposed, and therefore cannot be absent. It's presence is not dependent upon any conditions and is therefore foundational to existence itself. Love is existence, which is what you are beyond the person. This is unconditional Love, which cannot be under the jurisdiction of a person.

I'm a big fan of Eckhart Tolle's works. I don't know if he was your inspiration for this but I see a lot of concepts in common. It's a beautiful thought for sure. Is it true? That is my conundrum! I suppose I have a hard time accepting it as I feel like I know this conditional love so well...Unconditional love...I have a hard time coming up with examples. All I can think of is that the conditions are much deeper. I suppose there would be no life if there was no love. But that doesn't make it foundational to existence. Life maybe, but not existence itself. And maybe there's other foundations to existence. Maybe the other foundations are just as strong or not stronger. How do we know Love is the only foundation? What observations allow us to make this assertion?

As a mental exercise I tried replacing your post to see if everything would fit. I switched the word "Love" with "Fear" and everything made just as much sense. I can accept unconditional love as an ideal, but a foundation to existence itself? Wouldn't there be more of it if it was? Wouldn't the Universe be thriving with life if it was? Seems like there's a lot of empty space and uninhabited planets out there. And there's tons of death, fear, hatred and suffering on this planet. If it was a foundation then it's a very weak foundation.

I don't want to come across as being contrarian. I realize I'm playing devil's advocate here but honestly, it's all done with the idea of furthering our collective understanding

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by MariconesUnited

I'm a big fan of Eckhart Tolle's works. I don't know if he was your inspiration for this but I see a lot of concepts in common. It's a beautiful thought for sure. Is it true? That is my conundrum! I suppose I have a hard time accepting it as I feel like I know this conditional love so well...Unconditional love...I have a hard time coming up with examples. All I can think of is that the conditions are much deeper. I suppose there would be no life if there was no love. But that doesn't make it foundational to existence. Life maybe, but not existence itself. And maybe there's other foundations to existence. Maybe the other foundations are just as strong or not stronger. How do we know Love is the only foundation? What observations allow us to make this assertion?

As a mental exercise I tried replacing your post to see if everything would fit. I switched the word "Love" with "Fear" and everything made just as much sense. I can accept unconditional love as an ideal, but a foundation to existence itself? Wouldn't there be more of it if it was? Wouldn't the Universe be thriving with life if it was? Seems like there's a lot of empty space and uninhabited planets out there. And there's tons of death, fear, hatred and suffering on this planet. If it was a foundation then it's a very weak foundation.

I don't want to come across as being contrarian. I realize I'm playing devil's advocate here but honestly, it's all done with the idea of furthering our collective understanding

What I mean by foundational is the fundamental expression of existence. This doesn't mean that various other expressions and interpretations cannot occur as well. Again, this Love has no opposition and isn't trying to defeat fear or hate or suffering or some such. Such expressions are based on imaginary perceptions. Death is not a problem in any way. Life is a movement between birth and death. Life does not fear death as it rebirths itself endlessly.

Love as a foundation would mean more life packed into the same space? I don't think that has anything to do with it, really.

With the understanding that it's just an idea, maybe unconditional Love can be imagined if there is only you expressing as everything you see. Fear, death, opposition and suffering would be impossible. Deception, competition and selfishness would be unthinkable. Lack, need and loss would not be part of manifested experience. The absence of all of this is the absence of conditions. What this absence of conditions is called isn't important, but it clearly would be innocent, intimate and harmonious.

[MariconesUnited]

Originally Posted by Arcanum

What I mean by foundational is the fundamental expression of existence. This doesn't mean that various other expressions and interpretations cannot occur as well. Again, this Love has no opposition and isn't trying to defeat fear or hate or suffering or some such. Such expressions are based on imaginary perceptions. Death is not a problem in any way. Life is a movement between birth and death. Life does not fear death as it rebirths itself endlessly.

Love as a foundation would mean more life packed into the same space? I don't think that has anything to do with it, really.

With the understanding that it's just an idea, maybe unconditional Love can be imagined if there is only you expressing as everything you see. Fear, death, opposition and suffering would be impossible. Deception, competition and selfishness would be unthinkable. Lack, need and loss would not be part of manifested experience. The absence of all of this is the absence of conditions. What this absence of conditions is called isn't important, but it clearly would be innocent, intimate and harmonious.

You're trying to help and I really appreciate that. Beautiful words. Call me stubborn if you will but I'm still not satisfied

I suppose my mind is more in "skeptic" or "scientific" mode. My comment on the scarcity of life was based on the assumption that Love is the foundation to existence and life itself. Is that the way it is? And I'm sorry but I'm a little confused. Now you're saying Unconditional is just an idea. I thought it was the foundation of existence? Which is it?

I can accept Unconditional Love as an idea/ideal, but I'm struggling with Love as the foundation to existence itself. I wish I could just accept it as truth but I'm not convinced. I have a feeling the Law of Attraction might work much better if I did but...Skepticism again.

I'm more open to science or meditation at the moment FYI

[Michael Chui]

MariconesUnited,

I realize this is not a simple or forum-post-length answer, but I'd suggest that you read the Hyperion Cantos (four hefty novels) by Dan Simmons. It draws the same conclusion... in a way... without reference to any Tolle or other New Age gurus.

If you can't handle science fiction or the time and attention it would take to read four sizable books, I'd suggest this essay's summary:

The Void and the Word: Dan Simmons' Complete Hyperion Cantos

It does not carry the weight or power of Simmons original writing, but it conveys enough snatches.

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by MariconesUnited

What I mean by "piercing the veil" is to expand knowledge and awareness of what is. There's many ways to work towards that end. Spiritual, philosophical, rational and scientific. That's all I can think of for now.

If there are ways to work towards awareness of what is, then it's not awareness of what is but awareness of what will be. Which means you are only interested in becoming and not just being which means you are playing mind games only. Philosophical, spiritual, rational or scientific are just different names for different clowns of the same circus.

If you would notice what is right now, then you would only be aware of the present moment which means loosing your identity as a person. The music would suddenly stop and the chiggy-wiggy dance of mind with it. And that has to be avoided at all costs. Mind has to make sure that the music never stops. So being aware of what is will be postponed and turned into a goal you can work towards. The show must go on.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by MariconesUnited

You're trying to help and I really appreciate that. Beautiful words. Call me stubborn if you will but I'm still not satisfied

I suppose my mind is more in "skeptic" or "scientific" mode. My comment on the scarcity of life was based on the assumption that Love is the foundation to existence and life itself. Is that the way it is? And I'm sorry but I'm a little confused. Now you're saying Unconditional is just an idea. I thought it was the foundation of existence? Which is it?

I can accept Unconditional Love as an idea/ideal, but I'm struggling with Love as the foundation to existence itself. I wish I could just accept it as truth but I'm not convinced. I have a feeling the Law of Attraction might work much better if I did but...Skepticism again.

I'm more open to science or meditation at the moment FYI

Love is the essence of life, yeah.
I meant that the concept of unconditional Love and the story I suggested imagining is just words and mind images and I wanted to say the concepts/story isn't the real thing, just a description. I guess I added confusion. Convincing really isn't on the agenda, since that would be more concepts/beliefs.

LOA falls apart completely in this realization we're talking about, since there isn't a manifestor separate from the manifestation. You ARE one of the manifestations already.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Reefs

If there are ways to work towards awareness of what is, then it's not awareness of what is but awareness of what will be. Which means you are only interested in becoming and not just being which means you are playing mind games only. Philosophical, spiritual, rational or scientific are just different names for different clowns of the same circus.

If you would notice what is right now, then you would only be aware of the present moment which means loosing your identity as a person. The music would suddenly stop and the chiggy-wiggy dance of mind with it. And that has to be avoided at all costs. Mind has to make sure that the music never stops. So being aware of what is will be postponed and turned into a goal you can work towards. The show must go on.

Or as PT Barnum said, "There's a sucker born every minute".

[Perspective]

Originally Posted by MariconesUnited

This well exists and it is possible to deepen its impact. Meditation and yoga help me personally in this respect.

I agree - & meditation & yoga have helped me too.
I need to learn to meditate anywhere... not just in nature.
Sometimes, during a party or where I get overwhelmed by people, I'll slip into the bathroom & just take a break. Maybe that's why they're called, "rest" rooms.

If it means anything I can totally relate to what you're saying here. I've grown to appreciate my own solitude but now...I'm lonely

Me too - even though I'm very rarely alone. That's part of my issue - is finding ways to resonate with people in my life who think differently than I do. I grew up with this life-encompassing religion & now I just can't fool myself into buying it anymore. It's left me feeling less connected with most of the people in my life.

I suppose the challenge is in finding the way of the middle, as the Buddha put it!

You know what's funny - is that there's even a middle way within the middle way. Or so it seems.
You know how Jesus taught not to be "luke warm" or else you'll be spit out?
And Buddha taught to stick with your religion of youth because it tends to be how you resonate best.
So... harmonize passion with intellect... but don't let logic or fear hold you back either.
I can see why the middle way is the "road less travelled."

What I mean by "piercing the veil" is to expand knowledge and awareness of what is. There's many ways to work towards that end. Spiritual, philosophical, rational and scientific. That's all I can think of for now. Science helps dispel ignorance. Maybe using the most clichéd example in history I think Galileo showed that our perception that the Earth is flat is flat wrong. Teehee.

Spiritually, one can make inroads into understanding the deeper nature of reality through meditation or yoga. Feeling the depth of reality and increasing our latent skills and senses can go a long way into understanding.

Yeah... ok, I think I know what you mean. It's realizing where we are emotionally & physically... sensing it.
I like what you mentioned about expanding awarness of what is.
Sometimes it's only after the fact, I think back & realize someone was reaching out to me & I was too absorbed in something else.

I wasn't touching upon the question of passion vs. serenity but since you did I thought it was a good idea to do so! I think different situations call for different reactions. Sometimes passion is necessary. Sometimes it will cloud your judgement. The key is in knowing which moment is which. This is where meditation comes in. I think ideally one is serene about the present moment while being conscious of current problems and looking for long-term solutions. The way of the middle. Again. Easier said than done, I know!

Well put!

[Perspective]

Originally Posted by MariconesUnited

I'm a big fan of Eckhart Tolle's works. I don't know if he was your inspiration for this but I see a lot of concepts in common. It's a beautiful thought for sure. Is it true? That is my conundrum! I suppose I have a hard time accepting it as I feel like I know this conditional love so well...Unconditional love...I have a hard time coming up with examples. All I can think of is that the conditions are much deeper. I suppose there would be no life if there was no love. But that doesn't make it foundational to existence. Life maybe, but not existence itself. And maybe there's other foundations to existence. Maybe the other foundations are just as strong or not stronger. How do we know Love is the only foundation? What observations allow us to make this assertion?

As a mental exercise I tried replacing your post to see if everything would fit. I switched the word "Love" with "Fear" and everything made just as much sense. I can accept unconditional love as an ideal, but a foundation to existence itself? Wouldn't there be more of it if it was? Wouldn't the Universe be thriving with life if it was? Seems like there's a lot of empty space and uninhabited planets out there. And there's tons of death, fear, hatred and suffering on this planet. If it was a foundation then it's a very weak foundation.

I don't want to come across as being contrarian. I realize I'm playing devil's advocate here but honestly, it's all done with the idea of furthering our collective understanding

I really liked Tolle's book, "The Power of Now."
Yet, I saw a lot of impractical issues in it... like dismissing the importance of planning for the future, learning from the past.

I try to love without conditions, but I know I don't & believe we're not really capable of it - too survival-oriented. I won't claim to understand how unconditional love relates to our existence as spiritual beings. Yet, I've considered...

Pure love (God) is the absolute best of all possibilities.
Life & death are based on our imperfect human best shot at love... striving for what we think is best in each circumstance...
learning as we go by trial & error.

In NDEs, & in examples like "Jonathan Livingston Seagull" - in spirit - we are transmitted to that which we resonate with.
Like energy attracts like energy.
I don't understand the math or metaphysical details... but I've heard that the subatomic particles consist of the 10th dimension
(infinite possibilites of infinite universes). Also, 95% of the universe is considered to be made up of dark energy/matter - invisible, but known by it's influence. So maybe this is the basis of our spiritual existence.

What puzzles me is that energy isn't necessarily based on "factual evidence" but on motivation (Passion!) - either fear or love based.
Yet, fear, or a lack of love is often based on a lack of perspective (or awareness/evidence etc.)
So, we need to reason things out to increase passion... but too much reasoning squelches passion.

[sonde]

Originally Posted by MariconesUnited

I can accept Unconditional Love as an idea/ideal, but I'm struggling with Love as the foundation to existence itself.

As seen here, unconditional love is not so much the foundation of existence, it is existence itself.

Unconditional love, aka awareness, is the seeing/knowing/openness that is the 'space' in which all arises. All that comes and goes does not really exist, but arises/appears for a while and then departs, whereas existence/awareness/unconditional-love remains seeing/knowing/open-to all that arises/appears without exception.

[sonde]

Originally Posted by Perspective

What puzzles me is that energy isn't necessarily based on "factual evidence" but on motivation (Passion!) - either fear or love based.
Yet, fear, or a lack of love is often based on a lack of perspective (or awareness/evidence etc.)
So, we need to reason things out to increase passion... but too much reasoning squelches passion.

Isn't to "reason things out" the very act of creating a reasoner and the things reasoned out or about...

Isn't the reason the reasoner reasons, to keep his/her thought-to-be-self motivated, ie, reasonable, in the sense of continuing to create and be involved in reason...

Isn't reasoning, the loss of perspective, or awareness, the creation of cause/effect, the motive to avoid pain and prolong pleasure, ie fear and desire...

Seems we can 'wind ourselves up' via thought constructs...

...but it is only a thought construct that wants to do that... be wound up... isn't it....

[Perspective]

Originally Posted by sonde

Isn't to "reason things out" the very act of creating a reasoner and the things reasoned out or about...

Isn't the reason the reasoner reasons, to keep his/her thought-to-be-self motivated, ie, reasonable, in the sense of continuing to create and be involved in reason...

Isn't reasoning, the loss of perspective, or awareness, the creation of cause/effect, the motive to avoid pain and prolong pleasure, ie fear and desire...

Seems we can 'wind ourselves up' via thought constructs...

...but it is only a thought construct that wants to do that... be wound up... isn't it....

This reminds me of... "Did you remember to forget or forget to remember?"

I know what you mean about getting too "in our head" & less in our heart.
But the truth is, is that our brains never stop, thank Goodness.
Our thoughts are constantly going - yeah, we can kindof turn down the volume, but a part of us is always on alert... which is good for survival purposes etc.

Still, as you mentioned, some reasoning, can be the ego (or "stupid selfishness") part of us trying to justify what we want now, to the exclusion of what we really want in the long run.

It just seems like a harmony or balance... between subconscious & conscious, intuition & intellect, focused passion & expanded awareness.

[MariconesUnited]

Originally Posted by sonde

As seen here, unconditional love is not so much the foundation of existence, it is existence itself.

Unconditional love, aka awareness, is the seeing/knowing/openness that is the 'space' in which all arises. All that comes and goes does not really exist, but arises/appears for a while and then departs, whereas existence/awareness/unconditional-love remains seeing/knowing/open-to all that arises/appears without exception.

And it would exist regardless of whatever damage we do to ourselves, each other or the environment. It exists regardless. Unconditionally.

Epiphany. *DOOONG*