| | |||||||
| Spirituality, Consciousness, & Awareness Spirituality, beliefs, the nature of reality, consciousness, awareness, metaphysics, truth, philosophy, religion |
|
Welcome to the Personal Development for Smart People Forums, the place for lively, intelligent discussion of all personal growth issues -- physical, mental, financial, social, emotional, spiritual, and more. You're currently viewing as a guest, which gives you limited read-only access. By joining our free community, you'll be able to post your own messages, access many members-only features, see the new messages posted since your last visit, and of course remove this header message. Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please join today. If you arrived here from a search engine, you may want to explore the main site first, which includes hundreds of deep and insightful articles on a variety of personal development topics. |
| | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
| | #1 (permalink) |
| Senior Member |
I stumbled across this article about achieving happiness without religion, and I believe it also applies to spirituality as a whole. What do you think? Is spirituality a requirement for happiness? Is non-spiritual happiness any more or less rewarding than spiritually-fueled happiness? What is it about spirituality that provides happiness? And when does spirituality lead away from happiness? Madigan answers some of these questions in his essay, but I'd like to hear your opinions. My view is that I've been far happier since leaving behind my Catholic beliefs. Leaving behind fear of eternal damnation was incredibly liberating. I've encountered many spiritual beliefs since then, though none of them have been adopted, but they have reinforced those aspect of my Christian upbringing which I haven't left behind; i.e., compassion, conscientiousness, generosity, etc. None of which are necessarily spiritual in nature. |
| | |
| | #2 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 67
|
Well, how do you define being spirtual? Do you mean accepting gods will? that is all that occurs? Do you have some control over your ego based desires? Buddhists say desire brings suffering, it also brings our natural form of contentment. I dont believe in a spirit, but if you mean spiritual in the sense i have explained above then yes... i do try to apply some spirtual ways in my life. That is i try to balance my desires with how the universe unfolds... i find this brings me optimal contentment. It feels great and liberating to not fear a god or a set of religious beliefs defined by others. |
| | |
| | #3 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Here, Now
Posts: 202
|
It's an interesting concept, but the article seems to be more focussed upon happiness outside religion. I feel that religion is something completely different and separate from spirituality. I believe happiness outside of religion is absolutely possible. Perhaps even more probable because one is living outside the confines of a potentially controlling and limiting paradigm. But can one be truly happy without spirituality? Hmmm... I guess I can't say. I know that I was not entirely happy without some sense of my spirit, but that was only my experience. |
| | |
| | #5 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Here, Now
Posts: 202
| Quote:
My spirit is that which gives me life. It's the (heretofore) unmeasured, unexplained, often unperceived light (or force) that is present in everything. I perceive it kind of like a tether to the rest of the Universe. (My particular belief is that God is everything, and you and I are a part of that everything, and therefore a part of God.) For some reason, I also feel that my spirit includes my consciousness in some significant way. But I cannot explain that feeling, nor can I substantiate it. I just sense it. As I said in my previous post, I cannot say that anyone needs this belief to be happy. In fact, all I really know is that when I did not have this belief, I was not happy. However, it is also true that there were other factors involved with my unhappiness at that time. I do know that my spiritual beliefs are the source of a good deal of my present happiness. It's actually an interesting conundrum. Take a blind person for instance. Like an atheist, they have no sense of something that some others (sighted, or spiritual) claim that they do. If you were to ask a sighted person if they could be happy being blind, could they give you an accurate answer without actual experience? If you were ask a blind person if they were happy being blind, could you be sure that their idea of happiness was of the same measure as the sighted person? Would someone who had experienced both states be able to give an accurate comparison of their before and after happiness? Would the order in which those experiences occurred affect the perception of happiness? | |
| | |
| | #6 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 511
|
Happiness is actually the joy of existence. You would think happiness comes from some kind of external thing, or even some kind of internal state of being for the more advanced, but all it really takes is just the awareness of existence, because that in itself is not different than joy/love/beauty and other qualities of Divinity, i.e. you feel more "alive" when you're in love, or appreciating nature, etc. When you achieve some goal, or you're with someone you love, or eating chocolate So in a way, all happiness is spiritually-oriented, just that it isn't recognized to be so. Which is totally fine -- you don't need gurus or scripture to tell you that love and kindness to others is a good thing |
| | |
| | #7 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member | Quote:
I find myself getting more and more spiritual the more convinced I am that there is not a God. | |
| | |
| | #8 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 224
|
Interesting questions. I do not believe that spirituality is a requirement for happiness, nor do I think being spiritual or not in any way impacts the level or constancy of happiness an individual feels. In my opinion far more important than spirituality in the pursuit of happiness is the development of self-awareness and self-acceptance. The more deeply one understands and accepts themselves the more clarity they gain in identifying just what it is that brings them happiness (and I’d argue that most people are very out of touch with where their happiness comes from) on a consistent basis. I believe that some people confuse spirituality/religion and their teachings with the road to happiness because they do give a set of possible roadmaps to attain happiness. There are other maps though. I think spirituality leads to unhappiness when people confuse the maps they provide with the message. I do understand and believe some people have frequent, or even occasional, feelings of bliss/happiness from their spiritual beliefs/knowledge but this is not the case for all people. For the people who don’t find their happiness primarily from spirituality but try to force themselves spirituality would definitely lead to unhappiness. |
| | |
| | #10 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,108
|
Reading the above posts reminded me of an old, jokey saying that only children and the handicapped are happy. They are innocent, free from worry and are probably not too concerned about self development and the pursuit of happiness (as they are already happy!). It's an interesting topic and there are many nuances and personal definitions about what happiness or joy or contentment is. A lot of it is transitory - we may feel happy after a meal or meeting someone, but it doesn't last long. A lot of people are happy when denying themselves and serving the ones they love, foregoing personal comfort in the hope of achieving something better in the afterlife - union with God, for example. So, in that sense, there can also be happiness in the pursuit of happiness! Sometimes we don't realize we were happy at a particular time, until that time has passed and we find ourselves in some sad, lonely situation. We think back and think how happy we were without realizing it. Does that mean we need the duality of experience, the positive and negative, in order to experience happiness? Are children aware at the time that they are happy? I think often they are. I can clearly remember my own children at very young ages jumping up and down, shrieking 'Happy, happy, happy!'. I have seen many ordinary, simple people, especially those who live in the countryside, who are naturally happy, without having any particular belief system, religious or otherwise, or any particular need for self improvement. In fact, it is often the ones who have a compulsion for self improvement who are the most unhappy, as they are never satisfied with what they have. If I was asked what true happiness was, I would say it was a sense of deep, inner peace and acceptance of self and others. |
| | |
| | #11 (permalink) | ||
| Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Here, Now
Posts: 202
| Quote:
Quote:
| ||
| | |
| | #12 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member | Quote:
I realize there are other concepts or definitions of "God," but in general I have different words to express them. As for spirit, most people mean a sort of conglomeration of the qualities which make us "human": our creative drive, our deepest emotions, our subconscious drives and intentions. I don't believe in a spirit as something separate from the physical or something which can endure apart from our bodies. But I believe in the spirit in the above sense, and I like to live a "spiritual" life in the sense of something more profound than sex and television. For me, physical/mechanical/"mundane" things can hold deep spiritual value. When I do a Calculus problem I often feel as if I'm worshipping. Last edited by AidanMatthews216; 05-01-2007 at 09:51 PM. Reason: clarifying a point | |
| | |
| | #14 (permalink) | ||||||||
| Senior Member |
Excellent replies everyone Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Would it be enough to have experienced states other than happiness before, and recall the contrast? Probably not, there's plenty of evidence of our ability to make any emotional state our "base" state. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Do you think that your beliefs about reality can affect your happiness? And thus your beliefs about God? | ||||||||
| | |
| | #15 (permalink) |
| Senior Member | Well, yes, I do kind of think of "spirit" as being something vital, some kind of force animating life. Since people tend to associate spirits with living things, that only makes sense to me. Also consciousness and the mind--people don't tend to ascribe spirits to things that are not aware.
|
| | |
| | #16 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Here, Now
Posts: 202
| I think it happens all the time. Often there are other things, completely outside the spiritual realm, such as money or other agenda, that drive some religions or religious groups. Haven't you ever met someone who used religion as a weapon? Take the groups who claim that God hates certain groups of people, and commit violent or heartless acts in God's name, for instance. They are religious, but I don't think they are in touch with their Spirit. By my understanding and definition, religion is that which is made by man. Spirituality is that which is made by God. That does not mean that I don't think spirituality can exist within religion. I do believe it can and does in some situations. I just observe that either can exist without the other. Does that clarify? |
| | |
| | #17 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,108
| Quote: Originally Posted by Cantando If I was asked what true happiness was, I would say it was a sense of deep, inner peace and acceptance of self and others. Mark LaPierre: How, if at all, do you think this relates to spirituality? Being at peace with oneself and others is a major part of spirituality. Unless we achieve this, how can we experience the inner joy of being in the present, eternal moment? Whether we achieve this through religion or some belief system, or just happen to have it naturally, depends on the individual and the state of his soul. |
| | |
| | #18 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 224
|
In my understanding religions grow, are maintained and propagated in order to explain and contextualize personal spiritual revelations/experiences within a broader community/society. Religions are primarily communal in nature allowing societies to maintain social order in the face of often widely variable revelations about the divine, they create comfortable borders around these revelations and pull outliers (individuals with deep spiritual revelations) back in to the communal whole solidifying social norms. I would differentiate between religions and spiritual disciplines although I’m not sure others would… I also agree with InJoy as to additional motivations that can fuel religions: Spirituality is very personal in nature, often not translating well to others. I’m not so sure what definition is being used for spirituality, are you including feeling the presence of god/the divine/whatever name you use or are you defining spirituality as the practice of spiritual disciplines (yoga, meditation, prayer) which can exist either inside or outside of formal religions? Last edited by Jenny; 05-02-2007 at 05:34 PM. Reason: added InJoy's name, forgot |
| | |
| | #19 (permalink) | ||
| Senior Member | Quote:
I'm sure many would argue that's not true spirituality, but they still believe they're doing God's work, so I can't dismiss the negative sides of spiritual beliefs so easily. I agree with Jenny's description of the nature of religion. Perhaps the distinction between religion and spirituality would be made clearer by considering religion an organisation of spiritual beliefs. It is possible to have spiritual beliefs, and undertake spiritual practices outside of religion, but I'm not convinced it is possible to truly be religious without some aspect of spirituality (however misguided or misinterpreted that spirituality may have become). Conversely I believe it's possible to undertake spiritual practices outside of both spirituality and religion. Yoga or meditation for example. As I mention in my blog, they were initially spiritual practices, but spirituality isn't a necessary part. Quote:
| ||
| | |
| | #20 (permalink) |
| Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6
|
Our nature is happiness. Regardless of our religion, it is entirely possible to be happy, because it is our nature.
__________________ You are worth it |
| | |
| | #22 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 145
| Quote:
Rhythman | |
| | |
| | #23 (permalink) | ||||||
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,084
| Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I liked this part of the article: Quote:
| ||||||
| | |
| | #24 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Seattle, Washington, USA
Posts: 2,175
| Taking unrelated ideas and forcing them into the same box is a bad practice.
__________________ Currently reading: Job: A Comedy of Justice, Robert Heinlein |
| | |
| | #25 (permalink) | ||
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,084
| Quote:
Do make a clear point please. Are you saying flow and spirit are not related, in your way of thinking? | ||
| | |
| | #26 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Seattle, Washington, USA
Posts: 2,175
|
Let me restate what you said in a different way: I would say that when you are being "one with your spirit", you're in flow.
__________________ Currently reading: Job: A Comedy of Justice, Robert Heinlein |
| | |
| | #27 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: California, Los Angeles County
Posts: 410
|
Hi everyone, I've often heard people describe themselves as " not religious, but spiritual" as if to say they don't believe in any religion or don't belong to one. Implying they have spiritual beliefs, ( such as in the afterlife, chakras, meditation etc.) but that they are completely separate from religion-no religious idealogies, creeds or rules.... Like Mark's feelings, there is a sense of being more free, free to ask more questions where in some religions, one was discouraged from asking certain questions; free to explore new concepts (chakras, afterlife etc.) without being condemned or critisized; Or just being free from rigid rules that may make one feel guilty, limited or confused all the time... I remember one woman caller on a radio show that said she really tried religion, but there was just no feedback from 'upstairs' .... she felt nothing, alone ..so she began to explore buddhism and that made her feel more satisfied because she could get something back...something tangible... With just plain old scientific materialism, I think there is also a limitation, because science is definetly not at a level yet where it can provide an answer to things that would really make us "happy": life after death, issues about injustice and punishment, why are we here, how did we get here etc. Science can help though, it has done alot to improve our quality of life we're living now and made things so much easier us... take away the internet, refridgerator, cars, not alot of happy people But when it comes to what we're talking about now, it's not at that level yet... |
| | |
| | #28 (permalink) | |||
| Senior Member |
I'm afraid you've lost me too Michael. From what I gathered from wolfgang's post, he identifies spirituality with the concept of present moment awareness. That's a key component of Csikszentmihalyi's concept of flow, albeit not sufficient to fully explain the concept. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Daniel Gilbert's "Stumbling on Happiness" also sheds light on the topic; science-based again. Mind you his book is not a guide to happiness; it's about why so many attempts to find happiness go astray.
__________________ Take a stroll down The Winding Path and let me know what you think of the scenery. | |||
| | |
| | #29 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Seattle, Washington, USA
Posts: 2,175
| Quote:
I still disagree with how he expressed his ideas, which I illustrated in my second post, but I withdraw my objection to the actual claim he made, which I have no response to.
__________________ Currently reading: Job: A Comedy of Justice, Robert Heinlein | |
| | |
| | #30 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 634
|
Like most others that have responded to this post, I too see a distinct difference between Religion and Spirituality and echo those that seem to say that the one is merely the Path to the other. Religion is a personally followed formula - whether designed by someone else or self-directed - that leads to an intentful feeling of completeness or connection to Source. That being said, while the two are distinct, you cannot have Spirituality without Religion. You can follow a Religion's practices and never feel spiritually connected (just ask ANYONE who was brought into one religion and then moved to another), but you cannot be INTENTFULLY spiritually connected without SOME formula of action. I do not believe that you can be happy without some form of spirituality as my definition of happy involves feeling whole and connected. I believe one must have balance in the four main areas of their existance - Mind, Spirit, Heart and Body - to enter into a state wherein they gain connectedness and therefore "feel" happy. Without some "method" - again, either developed by someone else (ie. an "established" religion or tutelege by a "master") or self-directed through self-questioning and discovery - one does not experience that connectedness except through random occurrances thus making it nonintentional. Therefore, no "religion" = no "spirituality". Without the spiritual aspect of that equation, there can never be balance, ergo, no happiness. |
| | |
| Bookmarks |
« Previous Thread
|
Next Thread »
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
| |
| | ||||
| Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
| Finding Happiness... | Shamou | Emotional Mastery | 3 | 04-30-2007 04:34 AM |
| Happiness Checklist | Joe826 | Emotional Mastery | 2 | 04-28-2007 02:35 AM |
| Unreasonable Happiness | HumbleBeginnings | Steve Pavlina | 2 | 01-13-2007 08:03 AM |
| Reflective happiness | xnez | Emotional Mastery | 1 | 12-25-2006 07:19 PM |
| The relative worth of happiness | Theobinomy | Business & Financial | 0 | 11-18-2006 05:42 PM |
All times are GMT. The time now is 04:51 AM.






