Godless Happiness

[nightdiamond]

I have seen some atheists and materialists actually attempt to give a consuling message concerning the issues of life and death and the meaning of life...

Like one atheist for example who compared life and death with the current that runs inside a light bulb; as long as the current runs through it and the filament is in tact, the light bulb shines light; when the current stops running and the filament is broken, the light is extinguished forever.....

His attempt at comfort or tackling the issue of life was that like the light bulb with no current or filament, once life leaves the body, consciousness is extinguished forever, and therefore there is no longer any awareness of suffering or pain.... and by living a good life one can experience meaning and purpose... and...that's about it... nothing more...

One can appreciate the attempt, but this probably why science and atheism seems so lacking to many people when it comes to this...

Having science just say we're here and we evolved and we're here, but no why, how comes and how wills, seems too stale and weak for many of us...
Who wants to hear something like that if one lives in Dafur?
I tend to agree with Mark on this..


What does anyone else think?

[mercuryrising]

For many religious believers, it is a state of perfection that can only be achieved in the afterlife, when they will receive eternal reward for their good deeds on Earth.

Most religious people I've met don't seem to be waiting until the end of their lives in order to be happy somewhere else. Nor are they performing good deeds in order to afford this happiness. A weekend study of theology would clear up a lot of arguments between atheists and the religious (and probably create some new ones).

I think that religious people understand that happiness is freedom from the worship of the created and, at the same time, communion with the Creator. Many people look outsides themselves for happiness. They find it in fleeting glimpses and become addicted. Instead of being happy, they spend their lives searching for it. And even in the moments that they have it, they are thinking about the next moment when it won't be there and they'll be searching again.

It's like going after reflections of light in a pool and not realizing that you hold the flashlight creating the reflections.

So I think happiness is about turning back towards that Source that we all come from, connecting with that and helping others to do the same. Then it doesn't really matter what you do or don't have.

As far as a "Godless" happiness, I would say that you can define God however you want. The definition isn't as important as the connection. That is what flow means to me. It is a state of connectivity.

[jaideepv1234]

just to continue the discussion ahead...
being spiritual means what .do u believe that spiritual person has to follow very strict rules ,like he could no ttalk to a female..he should not eat non-veg food.cause it increases the tamsik ,the cruelty in human (as stated by the india highest rishi called vyas maharaj...

but in non-duality(in which i believe) state ,there no rule evere.u r the supreme self,which pervades every where,in everyplace,then for whom should i do this rules.

everything is within me......
just want to know on this forum .people belive in the non-duality...in it no idiol worship is there.
in this state of highest maditation ,does brain ,mind functions?

what do u think guys?.........

( i know ,this topic,is different,what i currently discussing on this forum

[supertom]

I think this is where buddhism beats the rest, if you look generally at people buddhists look the most happiest.

[bellemeadows]

Originally Posted by jaideepv1234

just to continue the discussion ahead...
being spiritual means what .do u believe that spiritual person has to follow very strict rules ,like he could no ttalk to a female..he should not eat non-veg food.cause it increases the tamsik ,the cruelty in human (as stated by the india highest rishi called vyas maharaj...

but in non-duality(in which i believe) state ,there no rule evere.u r the supreme self,which pervades every where,in everyplace,then for whom should i do this rules.

everything is within me......
just want to know on this forum .people belive in the non-duality...in it no idiol worship is there.
in this state of highest maditation ,does brain ,mind functions?

what do u think guys?.........

( i know ,this topic,is different,what i currently discussing on this forum

Well, here is what I think. There is a vast difference between spirituality and religious doctrine. What you are talking about in terms of rules and regulations are rules based upon specific religious doctrine and theology. One of the beliefs proposed by most traditional religions (Hinduism is the primary exception; plus Buddhism, an offshoot of Hinduism) is that you must follow the rules and regs laid down by God to be one of the 'in crowd'. As a member of the 'in crowd', you have a covenant with God in which you work to please God, follow the rules and go to heaven. Those who are not members of the 'in crowd' are out -- destined for hell, or some other non-preferred status in this world or the next. This makes it easy to agress on others, since it creates an us vs. them mindset.

However, if you listen to the people who show up as truly spiritual, generally they don't care so much about specific rules and regulations. e.g., Jesus kept the woman taken in adultery from being stoned. Rather, it looks to me like they find God everywhere; and are compassionate and empathetic. Look at Mother Theresa -- she spent her entire life caring for others; primarily Hindus.

As for idol worship; the Hindu religion looks like idol worship from the outside (and even often I'm sure from the inside), however if you dig deeper the Hindu's have a basis of nonduality underlying their belief system. The idols that are worshipped, are different perspectives or different 'aspects' of God.

I like the way the Buddhists see their Buddha statues. Within Buddhist belief systems, the Buddha is an emination of perfect Buddha nature (some would call this another term for Christ consciousness), a nature which is available to all of us, and which is our true state of being when we are not asleep in samsara. Buddhists believe that in every statue of the Buddha is an essence of the Buddha nature. So when Buddhists look at the statues of Buddha, they do not worship the statue; they honor and reach out to the Buddha emination to feel it and make it real in their consciousness. So that they too can connect with their own Buddha nature.

The symbol of the sleeping Buddha, actualy stands for us. We each are asleep to our Buddha nature, but one day, one moment we will wake up just as that first Buddha did.

Within my belief system, idol worship is the practice of putting something, anything out there in the world of maya, ahead of God in our life; wanting something out there more than the experience of oneness with God. Using this definition, probably only the enlightened are not idol worshippers. Some folks worship having money, others worship having a perfect body, perfect marriage, having great cars, following their religious laws to the nth degree, -- all of these desires, by this definition, are desires for 'idols'.

To me, the idol worship that seems like it might be the most helpful, is looking at a statue and trying to talk to God through it. Yet it is the one so often cited as a problem.

In just about every religion there is room for the spiritual provided they follow the rules and don't make too many waves with their radical perspective (like realization of God being more important than rules, and compassion more important than following rules.) This can be an issue, since the truly spiritual seem to have a different view on what is important and what is not, what is valuable and what is not. Look what happened to Jesus. St. Francis was ruled a heretic by the Catholic Church in his lifetime, and narrowly avoided a bad end. Then there is Rumi. . . the list goes on and on.

I am really not any kind of authority; but I have experienced moments of nonduality of oneness. So these are my thoughts; hope this is helpful.

Blessings from Belle,

[teacher]

I believe faith and spirituality, as long as they are positive in nature and add to our personal growth is healthy. I am a big fan of sending positive and healing energies to one and all. I do pray and send energies...sometimes simultaneously. If you study Buddhism, you'll see that a lot of what you mentioned in your message is Buddhist....and very much like Confucius taught.

[mercuryrising]

Originally Posted by jaideepv1234

just to continue the discussion ahead...
being spiritual means what .do u believe that spiritual person has to follow very strict rules ,like he could no ttalk to a female..he should not eat non-veg food.cause it increases the tamsik ,the cruelty in human (as stated by the india highest rishi called vyas maharaj...

but in non-duality(in which i believe) state ,there no rule evere.u r the supreme self,which pervades every where,in everyplace,then for whom should i do this rules.

everything is within me......
just want to know on this forum .people belive in the non-duality...in it no idiol worship is there.
in this state of highest maditation ,does brain ,mind functions?

what do u think guys?.........

( i know ,this topic,is different,what i currently discussing on this forum

The brain and body continue to function. The mystics say there is a silver cord that connects the soul to the body. At the time of death, the cord is cut. In the highest level of meditation, the body remains alive as the soul goes back to God or the Origin.

this non-dual state, IMO, is love. If you act from a position of love for God and all of his creation, you will automatically follow any rules given by a religion. Love is the highest consciousness.