Religion & God. To believe or not to believe?

[TimmyG]

Long story short, I lost my faith in God and not religious. I don't believe in a Super Being or a Heaven and Hell. I am supposed to be Roman Catholic, but I don't agree with a lot that the RC church teaches.

After doing some research, I discovered that Christianity would be a bit more suitable for some of my beliefs. But I have a hard time in believing a lot of the things that any religion teaches. Such as an after-life, Heaven or Hell, God's plan, teachings from the Bible, and so many more. And I don't understand the quote: "All Catholics are Christians, but not all Christians are Catholics."

When I was younger, I always used to believe and would try to convince non-believers, but now I'm one of them. I don't understand why so many people believe in things that don't exist or in things that there's no proof of existence. They put so much faith in something that may not even be true.

Sometimes I sort of feel like going back, but why? He hasn't done anything good for me when I prayed every night. I mean, I wouldn't go to bed until I prayed at least a decade. Now I don't even waste my time and hate church. Ever since I stopped believing, I feel that my life has improved and is better than when I would pray.

I was brought up in a Catholic church and family. I don't share the same thoughts and beliefs as they do. I don't understand why I don't believe any more, but I believe in what I want and could do what I want. I don't need any comfort or support from anyone. I'm not going to fail at life or be a bad person.

At this point I don't know what to do. About 5% of my mind says to go back and the other 95% says to stay. I feel great to be able to make my own choices and not having to worry about pleasing Him or do what He wants. I want to live my life the way I want to without Him telling me anything, but I don't get why something inside is arguing with me. I should be able to think and do as I want.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks for all the responses.

[wstein]

There are lots of us recovering Catholics out here. That guilt and indoctrination will fade with time (though never completely disappear). Don’t worry about your ‘disadvantaged’ youth, everyone has their childhood issues.

[Orator]

In fact belief is so ingrained in us that we cannot easily do away with it. When I was a little child my parents were great believers and everything was attributed to God. To do anything against some religious doctrines was to fuel the wrath of God and not to pray too was to infuriate God. We prayed every morning and evening and had so many Gods in our home. Being a Hindu we are polytheistic. There are different types of Gods and sages who are by nature always angry and if anything done contrary to the laid down principles it was against God.

However in the course of education and my exposures to science and philosophy I have been rather skeptical. Now I am not religious and yet I believe in spirituality. I do not believe everything written in theology or scriptures are God’s words as most believers conceive this. I enjoy reading the Vedas and the Bible together. I read a variety of religious books but I read them detachedly and disinterestedly.
But some scriptures are full of wisdom and great thoughts. For instance the Upanishads are some of the books that have no match at all universally.

I believe that spirituality is paramount in our life and it integrates humanity whereas religious thought suffers obsolesce

[ButterflyWoman]

Originally Posted by TimmyG

And I don't understand the quote: "All Catholics are Christians, but not all Christians are Catholics."

What's not to understand? All women are human, but not all humans are women. All Germans are European, but not all Europeans are German. Same kind of logical statements.

In other words, Catholicism is Christian. In fact, for centuries, it was the only kind of Christianity going, at least in the western part of the known world (there is also Eastern Orthodox christianity). Now, of course, there are many, many branches of Christianity. It's very diverse.

I don't have a lot to say about the rest of your post. I understand the struggle very well, and millions of people have gone through it. Usually, it's something personal that you have to work out.

I was not raised Catholic, but I was raised in Christianity and I held to that, more or less, throughout my early adulthood. Eventually, I started to strip away, piece by piece, the bits of dogma that seemed ridiculous, and I went to the (supposed) source - the Bible - and really dug into it and read and learned until I got to a point where I saw quite clearly that I didn't actually need any organised religion in order to have a relationship with God, and in time, my view of God changed profoundly. I eventually got to the point where I can't comfortably wear the label "Christian" at all, though I'm still quite interested in early Christian literature and related topics (only the very early stuff; the things written prior to Emperor Constantine taking Christianity to use it as a means of controlling and uniting his empire, something that it was never designed to do and so it had to be rather blatantly adapted for that purpose).

Other people, of course, go other routes. I went the scholarly route because that's just the way I roll.

[taylor]

Like you said in your post on hell, you are in control. If you want to go back you can, if you want to stay you can, and if you want to explore religion and spirituality anew, then you can. For me I found studying astral projection and the different spiritual mystical states people can attain to be the most fascinating subjects. Realizing that you can indeed experience other dimensions rather than a purely material physical universe can be quite exciting.

Church politics and whether a god exists or not are debates I think most of us here have outgrown. People who are interested in personal growth see spirituality as another avenue for expansion rather than as a religious structure that holds you back.

I wish you luck on your quest Timmy.

[zeitgeist]

Every hero always goes away from home, slays the dragons, gets lost, but eventually finds the holy grail. This is what a spiritual journey is all about. We have grown up and we have certainly outgrown the notion that there is a hierarchy amongst men. So good luck with your idiosyncratic journey, you cannot make a mistake. Your journey is necessary to reach the next level of commitment independent of what your personal choices might be.

All the best,

Zeitgeist

[arpee]

TimmyG, What do YOU believe? You spent a lot of time talking about the bible, heaven, hell, and god but you never actually told us about YOUR views of life. Do you believe in karma? The soul?

[ZephyrusX]

I am an atheist. I never invested too much stock in religions as I never derived any value out of the notion of life after death, God and so on. Having said that, I think atheism is a belief; a leap of faith. I don't know factually whether there is a God or not. All I can do is muster together my own understanding of the world, identify my own needs and desires and then make a leap of faith. I could be wrong, but its impossible to know for certain about many things, and if you choose doubt as a way of life, I don't think you are going to derive much satisfaction. At some point, you have to choose your own path, walk out into the unknown, bear the responsibilities of your choices and learn from your mistakes.

Personally, I think I would find it rather funny if I were to die and meet God face-to-face. The idea of someone having so much conviction and faith and being so wrong is just... humorous. 'Hi God! Hows it going?'

Anyway, I like this quote from Yan Martel:

If Christ spent an anguished night in prayer, if He burst out from the Cross, 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?' then surely we are also permitted doubt. But we must move on. To choose doubt as a philosophy of life is akin to choosing immobility as a means of transportation.

Originally Posted by TimmyG

When I was younger, I always used to believe and would try to convince non-believers, but now I'm one of them. I don't understand why so many people believe in things that don't exist or in things that there's no proof of existence. They put so much faith in something that may not even be true.

[desertrat]

You can believe in God but maby not the image presented in Christan churches. You will need to put things togher for your self as most of us here have done. I see God as the creative life force of the cosmos. I think we are all a part of God, little pices of God. We all create our own reality in this life and in the after life , the astral plane or a new life. It takes time to change your view of things. You will need to create for your self a belief system that works for you. desert rat

[Yunique]

Originally Posted by taylor

Church politics and whether a god exists or not are debates I think most of us here have outgrown.

From the amount of topics on the same, I think you'll find a lot of members haven't outgrown the subject! Remember we are all at different stages of personal development.
There is always likely to be a debate surrounding this subject, taking part in it though is optional

[taylor]

Originally Posted by Yunique

From the amount of topics on the same, I think you'll find a lot of members haven't outgrown the subject! Remember we are all at different stages of personal development.
There is always likely to be a debate surrounding this subject, taking part in it though is optional

I don't mean to tell anyone what to do because I'm not them and don't know what they need right now. Like I acknowledge, we're all at different stages, exploring different things. I only offer another option. Please feel free to think religion over, debate it all you want. How else will you consider the issue in a new light. I just mean eventually in the course of your spiritual travels the whole issue will likely get "out-framed" so don't worry if it seems unsolvable right now.

[smartai]

in fact i really don't know why most of us want to see something before they believe. i am a christian and will talk from that perspective. do u see the force of gravity? what brings about low and high tide? u don't see it but u see the result of it. have u ever thought or seen 'LOVE' . how would u describe it. u believe but u haven't seen it. God cannot be seen in the labs or anywhere but in the heart. the five senses bring to us what we can see, feel,taste and so on.
God cannot be found there. If only u open your heart u will begin to see the existence of this God. Christ is real, He brings meaning to life. He makes one feels reborn; everything becomes new

[zeitgeist]

Originally Posted by smartai

If only u open your heart u will begin to see the existence of this God. Christ is real, He brings meaning to life. He makes one feels reborn; everything becomes new

I understand your point, but I also understand the 'scientific minds' who do not trust this leap of faith. What I have found along my path that you can be led into the spiritual world you are describing with the help of synchronicities and all kind of little experiments that you can be running for yourself. As a matter of fact, I am currently writing a book on this process just because I feel that we can outgrow the entire fact versus faith debate.

Zeitgeist

[dream]

I can tell as a christian you were not reading. When I went to church I doubted God, church, humanity, family myself and even prosperity coming my way.

I think as a christian you need to read the scriptures and inspiring books about hope, faith and love. Spend time around nature as well. It will sooth your spirit. These are all food for Christians.

I suggest the book of John, 1st John and 2nd John. Also the book of Luke (the medical doctor). Let me know if you need inspiring relatable stories from the scriptures as well. I know a host of them.

[reformstorm]

I'd say 'not to believe' but then again it is not that I don't believe...I know for sure that there is no God, and that religions prey on the fearful through fear-based doctrines.

The first thing to realize is that the entire atheist vs. theist story has no winners or losers, as everyone is right in their own mind. In order to win an argument you must step outside the argument and see it as a witness. Through a witness point of view, I believe that both atheists and theists are wrong in their approach, because theists belittle their intelligence by using cause and effect, simply stating that everything that is built must have a creator. Yet whether god or an explosion created the universe and world is irrelevant as to the present moment. On the other side, atheists tend to imply that since they do not believe in god they deny spirituality and tend to view the world in a scientific, 'matter-based' point of view. Scientists tend to take the atheistic approach to their research and studies.

Yet, I believe there is no God, but you can have godliness, as a form of attaining a higher level of consciousness...which is not seen in either atheists or theists.

[Totallycool]

Catholics are christians, i know protestant politics say otherwise in fundamental churches. I used to be protestant but God seemed really cruel vengeful sexist and egotistical according to the the mainstream texts. I feel much more secure now with the spiritualism of universal oneness/ conscienceness.two of the few things i carry with me from the bible are Jesus is in everything "look under a rock and you will find me" or something like that. It was in a book outside of the kjb, look for truth and your shall find it. Treat others as you wish to be treated. Forgive. These are universal rules found on every continent traditionally. I say if you want to find the truth research and. Learn more. Do better with love and appreciation Not fear of hell.

If you are willing to look back at the bible in a myth-oriented way i highly reccomend the game of life and how to play it.

[Andras]

What if you think and replace the word g-d (that is actually a palindrome of dog...) with the CONCEPT of infinite space. Infinity = g-d plus you sprinkle some Laws of Nature and Universal order then baba-bing you got yourself an abstract, non-personal god that few can argue with. After all can you deny infinity? Ok, you said yes. Then what is the largest number?
This g-d is not an "actor" in human affairs, there are laws of karma and reincarnation of the soul. This god does not love you nor it hates you, it has no sex - it is neither male or female, it is in everything and everywhere and most importantly it is in you and all beings are part of it. All the Biblical version of a personal god that gets angry or pleased are for the simpletons who cannot fathom an abstract idea. Indeed our limited mind cannot fully comprehend something infinite. (but we can at least try)

Originally Posted by TimmyG

Long story short, I lost my faith in God and not religious. I don't believe in a Super Being or a Heaven and Hell. I am supposed to be Roman Catholic, but I don't agree with a lot that the RC church teaches.

After doing some research, I discovered that Christianity would be a bit more suitable for some of my beliefs. But I have a hard time in believing a lot of the things that any religion teaches. Such as an after-life, Heaven or Hell, God's plan, teachings from the Bible, and so many more. And I don't understand the quote: "All Catholics are Christians, but not all Christians are Catholics."

When I was younger, I always used to believe and would try to convince non-believers, but now I'm one of them. I don't understand why so many people believe in things that don't exist or in things that there's no proof of existence. They put so much faith in something that may not even be true.

Sometimes I sort of feel like going back, but why? He hasn't done anything good for me when I prayed every night. I mean, I wouldn't go to bed until I prayed at least a decade. Now I don't even waste my time and hate church. Ever since I stopped believing, I feel that my life has improved and is better than when I would pray.

I was brought up in a Catholic church and family. I don't share the same thoughts and beliefs as they do. I don't understand why I don't believe any more, but I believe in what I want and could do what I want. I don't need any comfort or support from anyone. I'm not going to fail at life or be a bad person.

At this point I don't know what to do. About 5% of my mind says to go back and the other 95% says to stay. I feel great to be able to make my own choices and not having to worry about pleasing Him or do what He wants. I want to live my life the way I want to without Him telling me anything, but I don't get why something inside is arguing with me. I should be able to think and do as I want.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks for all the responses.

[Totallycool]

Originally Posted by Andras

What if you think and replace the word g-d (that is actually a palindrome of dog...) with the CONCEPT of infinite space. Infinity = g-d plus you sprinkle some Laws of Nature and Universal order then baba-bing you got yourself an abstract, non-personal god that few can argue with. After all can you deny infinity? Ok, you said yes. Then what is the largest number?
This g-d is not an "actor" in human affairs, there are laws of karma and reincarnation of the soul. This god does not love you nor it hates you, it has no sex - it is neither male or female, it is in everything and everywhere and most importantly it is in you and all beings are part of it. All the Biblical version of a personal god that gets angry or pleased are for the simpletons who cannot fathom an abstract idea. Indeed our limited mind cannot fully comprehend something infinite. (but we can at least try)

I agree with your view of God but, I know from experience that taking peoples words on that kind of a view when you are so used to being fed that God is a man in heaven is a far stretch. Most religions have universal truths and alot of polythiest know that their gods are just the different parts of one. If a person does some research they will find that archtypes of Gods, man being born from earth/dirt/clay, flood/fire myths, trinities, etc are repeated cross culturally as expressions of human conciousness. These cultures existed before and without Christianity. Many influenced early gnostics therefore obviously influencing Catholics and Protestants today. Many people refuse to look outside of their Bible because they fear "straying and going to hell" (pretty effective strategy for keeping people in hell on earth right now). But, researching for self and interpreting things using critical thinking skills and focusing on what FEELS TRUE is powerful and freeing.

IN MY OPINION The reason why alot of educated Protestants and Catholic leaders are creating alot of fear around "New Age" movements (which are actually based on old knowledge and just new to each generation) is because at the heart of it, people gain courage to stand on their own two feet. They stop eating all the fearful excuses as to why they have to settle for less than a GLORIOUS LIFE.

It could cause uprisings and alot of institutions would lose money and power over others. Interestingly enough, to keep people in the system, I've noticed quite a few Protestant pastors teaching of abundance, now but they still teach in a fear/hate based way.

Religion has been a huge premise on many wars and robbery ( ex: manifest destiny and the promise land). Just Imagine if people were to wake up and realize that war is insanity and that the people who start them don't fight! Because we would all beable to look INSIDE OURSELVES to find God. Find your own inner Christ because everyone and everything is an aspect of God.
And if everyone found their inner Christ, then everyone would beable to heal. All imbalances could be healed by the individual or a more skilled individual. Thats billions of dollars down the drain that alot of governments invest in because of the Pharmecutical industry and insurance.

I could go on with my opnions and theories but Im already off topic. The point: research for yourself.

[StuardMarshal]

Every one must have belief on God.It is very necessary for a happy life.The frustration and anxiety which is found in ourselves is due to this reason that we do not have trust on God and we do not have trust on our self too.So for a happy and successful life you must have faith on God and his supreme ness.

[ButterflyWoman]

Originally Posted by StuardMarshal

Every one must have belief on God.It is very necessary for a happy life.

You don't have a lot of varied life experience or a diverse range of acquaintances, I take it.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by StuardMarshal

Every one must have belief on God. It is very necessary for a happy life. The frustration and anxiety which is found in ourselves is due to this reason that we do not have trust on God and we do not have trust on our self too. So for a happy and successful life you must have faith on God and his supreme ness.

Seems to me you are projecting on others. Making God responsible for your happiness is not the only way to be. Perhaps you can see this in another way if you experience that God is already in you. No faith or belief is required.