Originally Posted by Anagogy  Personally, I don't think you have anything to worry about revealing these "ramifications". If anything, this persona that I see put on by people claiming some sort of egoic "liberation" has caused more "mind grasping", as you refer to it, than anything else. In reality, there may have been some dis-identification with a limited self-image for some of you, but no-where near what is claimed. It is not a binary situation where you are either dis-identified with self, or you’re not. The truth is, from my perspective, that the sense of self is still there, it’s just found an even more subtle home in the idea of no self, rather than actual no self (which doesn't exist btw, with the caveat that what I call self and what you call self are probably still different definitions somehow).
I don't doubt your sincerity when you say that you experienced some clarity with this realization. And I appreciate the calm and lucid way you respond to my questions (unlike many others, who get all sorts of riled up -- which is just indicative of the filters they still wear despite claiming otherwise).
But, I can tell you this without a shadow of a doubt: you are not haze free yet. You are still seeing things through filters. You and everyone else. You have let go of some illusion, but there is still more there. I'm not saying this out of some sort of pseudo moral superiority, or malice, or whatever else. I honestly don't care one way or the other. This is just a friendly observation. A dispassionate sharing of perspective. You may not see it today, or tomorrow, or the next day. But you will see it in time.
The world I see is very simple. But like many simple ineffable insights, it looks complex when you put it in words or conceptual description.
All there is is Consciousness. It is always a first person perspective (which I call a self or witness). It has a whole in every part nature. It can focus on forms, or it can remain undifferentiated. We might call them thoughts. A thought is simply the shape (focus) that consciousness has assumed at any given time. A belief is a consistent offering of the same thoughts over and over.
Mind is not separate from consciousness. Mind is just consciousness that interprets and analyzes. It is not the boogey man. Again, it is part and parcel of consciousness. It is natural for consciousness to turn in on itself in this way. Mind is necessary to explore ideas. Almost anything consciousness can be aware of, it can too, because they are made up of the same stuff. Mind is just a process where consciousness reflects upon, or interprets, what its awareness is placed on. It is a more specific form of awareness than plain Jane consciousness. That is all. It can come to illusory conclusions, yes, but it can also come to accurate ones through intuition tempered logic. Concepts are also not the boogey man. Concepts are collections of thoughts. They are a useful platform for the creative evolution of ideas.
It is *not* a robot with no free will. I cannot stress this enough. Everything is predicated on free will. I absolutely promise you. Free will has nothing to do with being separate from anything else. As you, and others, have noticed, that is an illusion. Even though a person feels separate, they are still connected to the whole. The interesting thing is that denying the quality of free will to this first person perspective is actually inherently building separation into the picture. Consciousness has free will. All things focused into being do too, within the frameworks of their initial conditions (which can also be dissolved if that is their sincere choice).
I won't go into this in too much detail because I don't have the time or space, but the first person witness/self is the microcosm of the macrocosm. The whole in every part nature plays into this very deeply. I'm not saying this because I have some sort of inability to accept a world with no free will. I don't have a vested interest in what the truth of things is going to be, I've only ever intended to know it, whatever it is. That has always been my intent. And that intent has been confirmed and reconfirmed and reaffirmed a thousand times over. Our intent is that incredibly strong life-line that we can engage universal resources with. As a result of this intent many, many, many, many filters have fallen away from my consciousness over time. I'm not boasting, I'm making a point about this.
Of course, if you're watching Mooji videos on youtube 24/7 then of course you will think his ramblings are the definitive word on transcending illusion. Sorry to say, but he, and other teachers like him, have only scratched the surface of realization. That's not to belittle him, or other teachers, we are all in this together after-all. And not all these filters fall away in some specific predefined order.
What I've just described to you seems like a series of concepts. I freely acknowledge that. However, they are based on inner sight that becomes more and more clear as the filters are discarded. I still have a long ways to go. Everybody does. Another thing that becomes very apparent in a visceral intuitive way when many of these filters fall away is the knowledge that anyone who claims to be completely devoid of ANY filters is either confused or lying. It simply doesn't work that way. If there was no filter, there would not be any need to communicate it whatsoever. Hell, there would not only be no need, there simply would be no communication. Unless you would describe oneness as a constant state of communication. That concept is close, but not the reality. But then, splitting hairs is what makes most of these discussions frustrating in the first place. That's why I'm not much a hair splitter.
Much like you, I have no way of proving or convincing you of any of this. Nor do I feel any pressing need to. And in this way, I can appreciate the reluctance to even share conceptions of universal consciousness (as the concepts are just interpretations). But the concepts can be helpful stepping stones to deeper realizations (actual seeing). I know, hard to believe right? Still, it will become apparent in time. It is as inevitable as the rising sun. Of course, you will say the same to me in regards to your realization which seems to you to be beyond all other realizations. Its unthinkable that I could legitimately look inside, and see something different than you've seen, and it be legitimately valuable and real. It is a dangerous trap, indeed, when you have convinced yourself of that.
This will most likely be the last post that I will seriously engage the topic of ego transcendence for a long while. I simply don't feel the need anymore. I'm not here to proselytize or anything. I've probed you all enough in the last few days to satisfy my curiosity in regards to it. It's become very apparent to me that I went through this realization you speak of (what I consider to be but a phase of deeper realizations) a long time ago. It is but a step along the way. I know, you’ll say realizing your no-selfness is all there is to it. True nature, yada, yada, all that jazz. Everything else is a mind story. But take it from me, there are further realizations to be had beyond this. Even more falsity falls away. And all the while the conceptions that form in your mind become less and less distorted. After-all, they are only as distorted as the consciousness that is forming them. I know, its blasphemy to suggest such an absurd idea.
Anyhow, I've appreciated this interaction greatly, and wish you all the best. You have a good head on your shoulders. I think very highly of you.
Best regards. |
10-15-2011, 06:27 AM
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