Does time exist?

[DaveTyler]

Does time exist or is it just a perception?

Are we all in the same "now"?

If it exist, is time travel possible, and if so would only THAT person travel time or would ALL time be changed?

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

Does time exist or is it just a perception?

Are we all in the same "now"?

If it exist, is time travel possible, and if so would only THAT person travel time or would ALL time be changed?

No Dave, time is an illusion, there is no past, no future, only now.

Your past only exists when you think of it, same with your future.

But present (awareness) is always now.

You make everything exist now, you are such a mighty constructor of reality, you build everything in the moment, people, places, arguments, love, Max Power and all the other crud in your life.

Time is an illusion of ever present awareness.

Time travel is another illusion, of ever present awareness.

Power to the Max

[Erki]

But what about consequences of my past actions? Shouldn't the not matter if the only thing there is is now?

[DaveTyler]

no man, I am not, you are consciouss and I am consciouss, stop saying im the creator of my reality, I'm suicidal from it, I need to get out of it, butI cant...
I look at people as not alive, not real souls


Another thing, time must exist some form, your always in the now, but the now is moving constantly towards future, cause if not, you'd never be born, you'd never die in this physical reality...

[ZHereford]

Time only exists because of how we are constructed (our 5 senses). We can only perceive and experience events in a linear fashion (i.e. one by one; past, present, future).

Our brains can only process events in a linear mode. I imagine there's a good reason for that.

So time is a consequence of our perceptions not an existing condition in and of itself.

[Takuin Minamoto]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

Another thing, time must exist some form, your always in the now, but the now is moving constantly towards future, cause if not, you'd never be born, you'd never die in this physical reality...

We grow old and, as a part of chronological time or aging or whatever you want to call it, we will cease to be. But the now cannot move toward anything in that sense. For some reason, we see the passing of time around us, and somehow adopt that into our psyche. Time has no place in the now. Once time comes into it, thought is there, along with our prejudices, shoulds, and beliefs that take us out of the present moment.

Time is not involved in direct perception. It is easy to be confused. But it is interesting to think about this strange, but useless, mechanism we embrace and fear to release. If we can call it "psychological time," that might help. There can be no future if one is in the moment. Certainly, one can make plans and set goals, decide to go to the movies later or call your mom, and that has nothing to do with anything. Why should we hang on to time and put such importance onto it? If I want to drive from here in Toyama to Tokyo, it takes time, but that is all. That same time doesn't need to invade my mind driving me crazy and keeping me from seeing the beauty of life.

When one meets with reality, seeing what is really there in front of them, psychological time ceases to be (and vice-versa). Pain and suffereing and whatever else we bring into our minds are thrown out with it. It is a most wondrous thing.

I do not know if I have made myself clear here. I apologize in advance.

[Jacobm]

Hi Dave,

Here is a quote from an article by Jamie Andreas:

Infants don't live in time. It doesn't exist. Their experience of time is one big "forever", and remains so until the child begins to grow and becomes increasingly aware of the phenomenon of motion around them. All of us became aware of the repetitious nature of our experience. It's light, it's dark, over and over. Mommy wakes us up, mommy puts us to sleep. Movement. Repetition. Rhythm. But no matter what is happening, no matter what "time" it is, to the child it is always "NOW". And that is why the child is capable of being intensely alive.

I highly recommend that you read the whole article; it really helped me to understand this concept (scroll down to "Lost in Time").

Hope this helps,
Jacob

[SecretSeven]

Time does exist. Atleast in the world it does. Look at the cycle of the moon, the sun,and our very own bodies. The whole world is one giant clock. Maybe time doesn't exist in some other Universe, but there is no denying it in this one.

[DaveTyler]

Well, time is no problem, I couldn't careless if it existed or not, I just wanted to starta discussion.
These crazy delusional people and their subjective reality is what I don't like...

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

no man, I am not, you are consciouss and I am consciouss, stop saying im the creator of my reality, I'm suicidal from it, I need to get out of it, but I cant...
I look at people as not alive, not real souls

In order to preserve your sanity, I wouldn't look at people as "not alive" or not having real souls, by which I think you mean consciousness. In my opinion, it would be more accurate to say they are just as real as you are. So, if you wish to consider your own self as real, they are too. From a different perspective/state of consciousness, your ego and everyone else's ego are constructed illusions (the word illusion simply meaning they are not what they appear to be). But don't get hung up on confusing terminology involving different perspectives of reality, like subjective-reality, or what have you. Especially if it is causing insanity. Trust your intuition. What "feels" right to you? Look inside yourself. The world is information. Consciousness is the "space" or container that holds that information, and this stuff called consciousness doesn't end at the tip of your nose by the way, but spreads through the immensity of space, and all probable/imaginal realities. Maybe there isn't an objective world out there. But then, maybe there is. But understand I say that with the caveat that we only ever see it through the lense of our subjectivity. Therfore, objectivity is the effort on the part of the observer to leave prejudice at the door. Objectivity is just a concept, because without consciousness, there is no subjective or objective.

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

Another thing, time must exist some form, your always in the now, but the now is moving constantly towards future, cause if not, you'd never be born, you'd never die in this physical reality...

Alot of channeled personalities say time does not exist, that everything exists in the eternal "NOW". They also say that the past is not over with and that the future is already happening. But what do they actually mean? How do we explain this apparent paradox? Clearly, as human beings, we perceive a series of causal events, one after the other, in logical sequencial order. However, I think the paradox can be resolved if we take a different perspective on the nature of time in general. What we call "time" would better be termed "change". If there were no change, there would be no time. If you had a rock, floating in empty space, and I mean EMPTY space, what frame of reference could you possibly use to justify the passage of time? The reason time appears to exist for us is because we have SO MANY frames of reference to relate to. We have the change called orbit, involving the sun and the earth, we have the change called deteriorating cells (physical aging), we even have devices called watches that change relative to many of these other changes so we can keep track of change even better. Ever go through a phase of life where you feel mentally older than you actually are, or perhaps somewhat younger? This is caused by either alot of change happening or very little change, respectively, and relative to these more normal changes.

One conundrum created by conceptualizing time as change is when you wonder why change/time happens in the first place. The word "change" or "happening" is kind of defining in that it presumes a beginning and an end to some event which presumes a perhaps long or near infinite series of events, maybe with a "first-cause" to be discovered. I don't think that line of thought is particularly accurate -- it doesn't really grasp the whole picture. Reality, in my opinion, is more akin to a slide projector. All the images (states of existence) are there to begin with, inside the slide projector, but most choose to go through them in a certain logical order. Not everybody mind you, but most. The part of the projector with the currently displayed image could be termed your conscious mind. The part holding the vast array of images is your sub-conscious mind.

Understand that all possible/conceivable images (states of existence/change) exist in the slide projector. The only thing that is actually changing (and in effect, creating the illusion of the passage of time) on this slide projector is the image that is being dsplayed. The conscious mind is the only thing that feels this passage of time, because it is the one filtering through the various images. The subconscious/higher self are helping out too, to make sure you percieve the optimal series of images in order to fully appreciate the bigger and better images. Eventually we look at ALL the slide-projector images. So just because we are looking at one image, it doesn't mean that the other ones have stopped existing, it just means we have changed our focus. Much like people do when they relive an event in the past through something like, say, regressive hypnosis for example.

This analogy helps, but still falls short of the magnificence and complexity of the actual concept I'm trying to relay. If I come up with a better one, I will try and relate it.

[DaveTyler]

Yeah thanks man, great explaination.
My mind is just VERY creative and I can make myself believe ANYTHING.
And the ************ with our individual perception is that it makes it feel TOTALLY real.
Believing your thoughts can alter reality is just bullshit though.
It's like a person who's terrifyed of dogs, everytime he see's one he believe it'll kill him, when in REALITY it's just a nice dog who wants some love.
It's so ************edup, cause I've been in search for spirituality and enlightenment and after reading Subjective reality I have to quit it, cause everytime I think about reality, consciousness, awareness, subjective reality pops into my head and ************s me up for weeks :/

[Lychee]

Consequences of your past happen in the now. Accumulated energy from the past find ways to express themselves when the opportunity arises in the present.

Time is valid in Newtonian physics, but theoretically and philosophically it can be debated. Time is convenient when it comes to dealing with matters relating to physicality but time itself is not tangible. But what is done in time is not erased in time.

Subjective reality exists just as objective reality. Things are relative to you, but you are not the the absolute relative factor. Thoughts do alter reality - anything that has come into existence from the human mind comes from the psychic plane into the physical plane, thus altering the current state.

[DaveTyler]

So that means by THINKING your a elephant you'll become one?:P
Or believing your the only person in the world will just kill everyone else instantly?

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

So that means by THINKING your a elephant you'll become one?:P
Or believing your the only person in the world will just kill everyone else instantly?

No, that's what I mean when I say we are not absolute.

[machine]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

Time does exist. Atleast in the world it does. Look at the cycle of the moon, the sun,and our very own bodies. The whole world is one giant clock. Maybe time doesn't exist in some other Universe, but there is no denying it in this one.

SecretSeven,

The cycle of the moon , the sun, and our very own bodies don't indicate the presence of time. They are just motions and changes in position. The whole world isn't a giant clock, it's just the whole world. Time is like an inch. They are both used for measurement, but they don't actually exist. Hand me an inch or a unit of time. If you got rid of all the clocks and removed the idea of time from people's minds, where would time be?

Even a sun dial is just a measurement of the position of the sun relative to the earth. It is our thinking that relates that to time. Before there were clocks the conversation went something like this: "Meet me at the apple tree when the moon rises over the top ridge of the mountain." Where is time there? It is positions of physical bodies. Then when man invented the concept of time, he said, "When the moon rises over the top ridge of the mounatin, it is 10 pm".

Five years doesn't pass. The earth rotates around the sun five times. No time necessary. But we call each cycle a year. We could have just as easily called 5 cycles a year. It's all conceptually based and non-existent.

If you want to use aging as an example - we don't age. Our bodies just change. It has nothing to do with time because it happens in the Now.

An example I like to use is there is a disease that inflicts a number of children. Children with a certain disease called Hutchinson-Gilford Progeria syndrome(Progeria) go through physical changes that resemble greatly accelerated aging. So what do you make of that? Is the time passing at an accelerated rate and causing their body to age? No. Their bodies are changing in the Now just like yours and mine is.

The problem is we are so conditioned to make everything time-based that we have a hard time removing ourselves from the concept to see what is really going on. If it is always now, and the now has no beginning and no end, where does that leave room for time?

machine

[machine]

Originally Posted by Jacobm

Hi Dave,

Here is a quote from an article by Jamie Andreas:



I highly recommend that you read the whole article; it really helped me to understand this concept (scroll down to "Lost in Time").

Hope this helps,
Jacob

That link doesn't take you there. You should change it to http://www.guitarprinciples.com/Philosophy/philo5.htm

That's the article you are referring to. And thanks. I googled the text you pasted and found it. It was a good read.

[Jacobm]

Thanks Machine - my original link was only temporarily linking to the correct article - I've now corrected it! Glad you found the article helpful - it is aimed at guitarists but really it is relevant to anybody, and can be applied to any field. The same could be said of all of Jamie Andreas' philosophical articles if you are interested in having a look. I find them very clear and easily understood...

[WanderingOak]

"Time keeps everything from hapening all at once"

It is a bit of a thick read, but you might want to take a look at A World Without Time: The Forgotten Legacy of Godel And Einstein. It is on my 'must read' list. I might get around to is in a few years...

[Emilee Leopard]

Time is just a consequence of our sense-perception, as is space...

At A quantum level we are a unified whole....There is no time...we see this with electrons and the 'quantum leap' where electrons literally teleport themselves, crossing neither distance or time

At a quantum level I am no different from my kitchen table haha

[ken nubo]

Eh, time is a human construct to measure event.

In a way, it exist in the abstract. But in my reality, true reality, time doesn't exist because we're timeless