Is any of this real?

[nietsdoen]

Our beliefs, and further, not just beliefs, but what we see, feel, hear, taste, and smell. Sometimes it doesn't feel real to me, like one day I'm just going to wake up and this will all have been a dream, and I'll either be relieved or incredibly saddened.

I have a lot of spiritual beliefs, but none of them feel real to me unless I've experienced something I can't explain (seeing inexplicably shaped shadows/figures and not being crazy, doing intuitive readings and getting something that turns out to be true that I could never have possibly known). But beyond that.. sometimes I feel I'm fantasizing -- about spirit guides, or reincarnation, or even reality itself. How do I know any of this is real?

I'm not talking about me being the only one who has actual consciousness. I'm talking about all of us, on this planet, living in a universe that isn't even real.

But then, I equate God with the Universe, so if I'm questioning the actual existence of the Universe.. that's getting into agnosticism there.

[VinceG]

What you need is a quest. Seek out the world actively, don't just wait for it to present itself to you.

[Arcanum]

Well, yeah, if in fact it's a dream, anything can happen and none of it can prove it's not a dream. Doing intuitive readings that turn out to be true is just more dream stuff, just as in your nightly dreams you can fly, but you know it's just a dream experience.

The distinction between real and unreal has become meaningless for me, mostly because this experience is all there is. There may be other dimensions and spiritual realms and such, but they're fundamentally the same dream stuff that's going on here. If there isn't a 'more real' reality than this, the terms real and unreal have no meaning.

This is as real as it gets.

[taylor]

It seriously is a dream. No joke. All of it. You won't feel relieved or sad or anything. That's all part of a dream that never existed.

I felt like you did as I began to question reality very conceptually. My favorite movies were things like the matrix, 13th floor, existenz, all those movies that said the world was a dream. Of course I loved Steve's SR stuff. It was all very interesting, but still conceptual.

Then I smoked some Salvia Divinorum and had the most obvious demonstration that the universe isn't there. I watched it disappear and what seemed so real before now seemed like a joke. I had woken up and was amazed I could have ever believed that any of that was real. I recalled having had all these concerns and problems and things I wanted to do, but obviously it was all fantasy and now I was freed.

The drug started wearing off but I thought I was changed, that I could never again believe in the world. As it wore off I watched myself getting sucked back into believing the simulation. I knew it wasn't real, I just watched it disappear, but that didn't matter now. It all came back.

As I'm doing A Course in Miracles more and more the world is dissolving, but it is much much slower and there's more an awareness of the Presence of God. Whereas with Salvia it was more sterile.

I hadn't thought about that experience in a long time. Thanks for the reminder heh.

[ChrisGinsburg]

Originally Posted by taylor

It seriously is a dream. No joke. All of it. You won't feel relieved or sad or anything. That's all part of a dream that never existed.

I felt like you did as I began to question reality very conceptually. My favorite movies were things like the matrix, 13th floor, existenz, all those movies that said the world was a dream. Of course I loved Steve's SR stuff. It was all very interesting, but still conceptual.

Then I smoked some Salvia Divinorum and had the most obvious demonstration that the universe isn't there. I watched it disappear and what seemed so real before now seemed like a joke. I had woken up and was amazed I could have ever believed that any of that was real. I recalled having had all these concerns and problems and things I wanted to do, but obviously it was all fantasy and now I was freed.

The drug started wearing off but I thought I was changed, that I could never again believe in the world. As it wore off I watched myself getting sucked back into believing the simulation. I knew it wasn't real, I just watched it disappear, but that didn't matter now. It all came back.

As I'm doing A Course in Miracles more and more the world is dissolving, but it is much much slower and there's more an awareness of the Presence of God. Whereas with Salvia it was more sterile.

I hadn't thought about that experience in a long time. Thanks for the reminder heh.

I did salvia back in college and I must say it really is the craziest drug around. It has a strange way of making you laugh hysterically while having no idea what you're laughing about. I fell on the floor and thought the various peaces of lint on the carpet were people in a small town. I must agree though that real and unreal aren't even relevant terms. This is all we got so in that sense it is as real as you will ever get in this lifetime.

[theuprising]

Originally Posted by taylor

It seriously is a dream. No joke. All of it. You won't feel relieved or sad or anything. That's all part of a dream that never existed.

I felt like you did as I began to question reality very conceptually. My favorite movies were things like the matrix, 13th floor, existenz, all those movies that said the world was a dream. Of course I loved Steve's SR stuff. It was all very interesting, but still conceptual.

Then I smoked some Salvia Divinorum and had the most obvious demonstration that the universe isn't there. I watched it disappear and what seemed so real before now seemed like a joke. I had woken up and was amazed I could have ever believed that any of that was real. I recalled having had all these concerns and problems and things I wanted to do, but obviously it was all fantasy and now I was freed.

The drug started wearing off but I thought I was changed, that I could never again believe in the world. As it wore off I watched myself getting sucked back into believing the simulation. I knew it wasn't real, I just watched it disappear, but that didn't matter now. It all came back.

As I'm doing A Course in Miracles more and more the world is dissolving, but it is much much slower and there's more an awareness of the Presence of God. Whereas with Salvia it was more sterile.

I hadn't thought about that experience in a long time. Thanks for the reminder heh.

If you meet god, can you tell him that I think he's a jack@ss

[cacheborn]

Subjective reality is a fascinating subject. I still have not come to grips with all of the concepts.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by ChrisGinsburg

I did salvia back in college and I must say it really is the craziest drug around. It has a strange way of making you laugh hysterically while having no idea what you're laughing about. I fell on the floor and thought the various peaces of lint on the carpet were people in a small town.

Have you found that ever since then you have a phobia about vacuuming??

[agsags]

If you are ever unsure if ANY of this is real, prick yourself with a needle. The pain you will feel will be very real.

[nietsdoen]

Originally Posted by agsags

If you are ever unsure if ANY of this is real, prick yourself with a needle. The pain you will feel will be very real.

I've felt intense pain before. It feels real, just like the keys on this keyboard feel real. That doesn't make it real, though.

[ButterflyWoman]

Originally Posted by nietsdoen

one day I'm just going to wake up and this will all have been a dream, and I'll either be relieved or incredibly saddened.

Quite possibly both. I was, when it happened to me (not that it happened all at once for me, though it apparently does for some).

Originally Posted by nietsdoen

How do I know any of this is real?

Yeah. Existential angst. Been there, done that, more times than I can count. Short answer is, you don't know know it's real. Keep poking at it and try to find out for yourself. And don't just look at the belief, such as "I have a guardian angel". Look at what's driving that belief. Look at the actual concept/thought/idea. Takes practice to do that, but it's worth cultivating the ability and the habit of examining your own thoughts and beliefs.

Originally Posted by nietsdoen

living in a universe that isn't even real.

Well, it would seem that there are many highly respected physicists and mathematicians who contend that reality is actually a projected one, in the style of a hologram. (You can Google that if you want. I was surprised to learn about it, too. I already knew it experientially, but to see serious physicists talking about the world we perceive as an illusion was an eye opener).

Originally Posted by nietsdoen

I equate God with the Universe, so if I'm questioning the actual existence of the Universe.. that's getting into agnosticism there.

This is only a problem if you see God as being apart from you, or separated in some way.

[agsags]

Originally Posted by nietsdoen

I've felt intense pain before. It feels real, just like the keys on this keyboard feel real. That doesn't make it real, though.

Nietsdoen - that's your over-active mind talking (no offense meant - mine is over-active most of the time). Somehow a lot of philosophizing about what is real steps to the side when real pain comes in as it connect you to you body. The pain is no necessary - just moving your body will get you there.

Btw, keys on your keyboard are real too.

[taylor]

Originally Posted by theuprising

If you meet god, can you tell him that I think he's a jack@ss

You'll have to deliver that message yourself. Although I hear hell is beautiful this time of year.

[inri]

What exactly does the word 'real' mean? "Real" as opposed to what? What I've come to see is that every experience I have has a certain 'reality' within the moment it is occurring..whether I'm dreaming, imagining, or living what appears to be my day to day life. Experience simply IS. The 'isness' denotes existence...real-ness.

The night after my brother's passing, I had a conversation with him where he told me that from his vantage point, his entire physical life now appears as a mere dream...that he was laughing good and hard over how seriously he took it all...and that the realm where he now resided 'felt' like the 'real' place...he also assured me that each realm has its own level of 'reality'....physical life is apparently the most 'real' SEEMING.....as it has a certain density to it compared to other realms....but it is no more or less 'real' than any other.

This past couple of weeks I've been awakening in the morning from very deep immersion within dreams. For about an hour after awakening, I'm wandering around feeling like the dream world is more 'real' than this supposedly physical one I've awoken into.....definitely creates a unique perspective....and serves to provide a further deepening of this blurring between realities.

[Okay]

Originally Posted by taylor

It seriously is a dream. No joke. All of it. You won't feel relieved or sad or anything. That's all part of a dream that never existed.

As I'm doing A Course in Miracles more and more the world is dissolving, but it is much much slower and there's more an awareness of the Presence of God. Whereas with Salvia it was more sterile.

I hadn't thought about that experience in a long time. Thanks for the reminder heh.

Allow me to express that it seems the "not thinking" about that experience in a long time happened for a reason. That's not an easy realization to deal with or continue living with day by day. All the foundations are shaken. So we retreat---back into the fort kids! Course in Miracles, this or that system, a workshop, a method. Looking for the Presence of God. The presence looking for the presence. Rather poetic and sad at the same time. And funny, of course. Or "relieving" as nietsdoen says. We're in a rather strange predicament all of us. Why do you think comedy was invented?

[Sansone]

Originally Posted by VinceG

What you need is a quest. Seek out the world actively, don't just wait for it to present itself to you.

I really like this answer!

that's all I got for now.

[taylor]

Originally Posted by Okay

Why do you think comedy was invented?

The devil made comedy to distract us from reading the Bible!

[nietsdoen]

Originally Posted by inri

This past couple of weeks I've been awakening in the morning from very deep immersion within dreams. For about an hour after awakening, I'm wandering around feeling like the dream world is more 'real' than this supposedly physical one I've awoken into.....definitely creates a unique perspective....and serves to provide a further deepening of this blurring between realities.

I experienced this once before as well, and it was quite disorienting. Thanks for your post.. it helped me feel that things are "real", haha. Reality is really quite subjective, isn't it?

[agsags]

Originally Posted by nietsdoen

I experienced this once before as well, and it was quite disorienting. Thanks for your post.. it helped me feel that things are "real", haha. Reality is really quite subjective, isn't it?

More like objectivity is not that real

[spacedout]

Originally Posted by nietsdoen

I have a lot of spiritual beliefs, but none of them feel real to me unless I've experienced something I can't explain (seeing inexplicably shaped shadows/figures and not being crazy, doing intuitive readings and getting something that turns out to be true that I could never have possibly known). But beyond that.. sometimes I feel I'm fantasizing -- about spirit guides, or reincarnation, or even reality itself. How do I know any of this is real?

Direct experience is one of the best ways of understanding reality because it is your experience and no one else's. What you experience is the truth for you, at that time and in that place whether you think you are dreaming or awake. It is all the same no matter what your state of consciousness. Beyond consciousness is the Absolute truth of what is, but you probably don't want to go there.

[FelineNostalgia]

Hey have you guys ever listened or read Deepak Chopra? He talks about a lot of this stuff

And your dreams have the same processes as your waking ones so it could be argued they' re just as valid an experience.

[Rezzy7]

As far as your human life is concerned, it's real. You could just stop there.

For the other things like reincarnation, guides, or anything that is not "explainable" by science or not consistent with "normal" human experience, first hand experience is your best and only proof (or disproof). If you've experienced seeing a ghost, or Sasquatch, then those things will be more real to you than a person who hasn't.

[theuprising]

Originally Posted by taylor

You'll have to deliver that message yourself. Although I hear hell is beautiful this time of year.

exactly why I think he's a jack@ss

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by theuprising

exactly why I think he's a jack@ss

When I was a teenager, I remember thinking that if there really is a God, the most noble thing I could do as a human would be to dedicate my life to fighting him in whatever futile way possible. "Jack@ass" would be an understatement.