The real creator of earth

[negate7o4]

If we ask thomas edison how he made the lightbulb he could answer us because he created it. as a EX christian why doesnt god ever say how he created the earth. Lets take gods words.

"Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven
to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for
seasons, and for days, and years And let them be for lights in
the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was
so"

he created the stars and moon to give us light. LIE!!!! the moon causes high and low tide in the ocean without it the entire earth would be under water! we only see a few starts if he created it to give us light why dont we see the billions of other starts.
IF god made a moon for light then i ques the guy who made the television only wanted people to hear it not see it! The real creator of earth and the universe could explain the purpose of everything not only that wich we can see! you can see the moon but do you realy no its purpose! the people who wrote the bible didnt know. who knows.

I dont have mush insight on other religions and their view on creation or exsitence. anyone
with any insightfull views or other religions that give good explinations. Your comments would realy be appreciated

so who is the real creator of the universe.

[Mayo]

Primal consciousness or some crazy alien scientist..

And there is not only one universe but multiverse of multiverses of multiverses of universes... something that is too large for closed mind person to even think of...

[negate7o4]

lol, . Why do you think there are parralel universes?. Because of paranormal
stuff? Ghosts can be beings from another universe. if we can create something as big as the internet i think i would be easy for the crazy alien sceintist to create split universes on one existence

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by negate7o4

so who is the real creator of the universe.

From a subjective reality POV, that would be me. I created the universe, but I only create in the moment and in my present awareness. That means I don't need everything and everyone all at once, I create anything and everything as I require it.

I think a better question is who is the creator, for whoever created the universe, must have created everything else. You question is fully loaded and subject to any individual's personal opinion, but it's still an interesting one.

The big problem I personally have with any religion is the reliance on some outside force/source/power that may have a level of control for good or bad that affects and/or infects your existance.

In my SR model, I'm God, but you can call me Sir or Your Royal Majesty



Power to the Max

[negate7o4]

Originally Posted by Max Power

but I only create in the moment and in my present awareness. That means I don't need everything and everyone all at once, I create anything and everything as I require it.
Power to the Max

You create in the moment yet the set of rules where you create your own universe is given. The air you breath the body you inhabbit. the earth you walk on all are set of rules within your moment! How can you then call it subjective reality ? shouldnt it be objective reality. Your moment is based in something else

[Akashic_Librarian]

I agree with Max, I am the creator of my own reality. I am God, the Divine, the Light, the Complete.

[negate7o4]

I understand that everyone is the god of their own reality, so did we as conscious humans create the universe in a sub conscious level in wich we can make our own realities

because if we didnt create the reality in wich we are now are own god
we are nothing more than subjects

[Dragon]

Originally Posted by negate7o4

If we ask thomas edison how he made the lightbulb he could answer us because he created it. as a EX christian why doesnt god ever say how he created the earth. Lets take gods words.

"Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven
to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for
seasons, and for days, and years And let them be for lights in
the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was
so"

he created the stars and moon to give us light. LIE!!!! the moon causes high and low tide in the ocean without it the entire earth would be under water! we only see a few starts if he created it to give us light why dont we see the billions of other starts.
IF god made a moon for light then i ques the guy who made the television only wanted people to hear it not see it! The real creator of earth and the universe could explain the purpose of everything not only that wich we can see! you can see the moon but do you realy no its purpose! the people who wrote the bible didnt know. who knows.

I dont have mush insight on other religions and their view on creation or exsitence. anyone
with any insightfull views or other religions that give good explinations. Your comments would realy be appreciated

so who is the real creator of the universe.

There's something you're not understanding here. You CANNOT use direct causes to analyze anything, the biggest mistake to make. Thomas edison created the light bulb, he didn't create light.

If the moon came from a rupture of the Earth, that in no way, means that God didn't create the moon, It's the combination of his work vs the rejection of his work that causes all of these forces. The moon and the stars do give us light, it gives everything on earth light. By the way, Genesis dosent say that he made the stars on the 4th day in the original text. the original text says, " and God created the moon to rule the sky.......and the stars" meaning that the moon is RULING both the sky and the stars, not that he created the moon and CREATED the stars on the 4th day.

Have you ever created something? by scratch I mean? When you create something, you are creating all aspects of it, everything it's going to do or not do, weathor or not it will grow, how fast, how slow, and everything it will grow into or become, or offspring. When God "created an apple and put it on an apple tree" he didn't do it in the direct cause that it's described as to make sense of it to the people of those times. It Isn't necessary and would make no sense. When God creates the seed, he is DESIGNING the seed to grow into a tree, to produce apples that produce more seeds, and produce more trees to produce more apples. It is all designed form that very seed. When he created the seed, he already created the tree and the apple in it, it is already done. This is how you're suppossed to anlyze these types of things. The greatest reality is that in which you cannot see, and we have to realize this in order to understand that we can't analyze creation by direct causes alone, it makes no sense.

This remids me of a joke I heard: God and a scientist were to have a competition to see who could make a human being the fastest and healthiest. God agreed under one condition, that the human had to be made from the dirt. The scientist agreed, and they got ready to start. The scientist bends down to pick up some dirt, and God says "No wait, get your own dirt."

If you built a car from scratch, try explaining it all to a six year old. God didn't explain it all to us so we "can know", he did it so we can understand how to act, and why it's important to do the right things. So he had to tell us in a way that we would understand. If he just confused us, we wouldn't care and would continue to act in unbeneficial ways for our life. weather we know all forces or just some of them dosen't really matter, It only matters if we're going to use them to form how we're going to act, which is why he told us the way he did in the first place.

[negate7o4]

Originally Posted by Dragon

There's something you're not understanding here. You CANNOT use direct causes to analyze anything, the biggest mistake to make. Thomas edison created the light bulb, he didn't create light.

First of i didnt say he created light i used it as a example he could tell you how he made the lightbulp! because he is in fact the creator of the lightbulp
unlike the christian god who cant tell you how he made the universe/earth because he is not the creator

Genesis 1:16
And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day,
and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

so if god didnt make the moon what lesser light is the bible talking about

And i think you missed the point!! I Quoted directly from the king james bible. If you dont know what is the difference between the king james bible and the one you got your information go read again

God creates light and separates light from
darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet
he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun
and the stars) until the fourth day

Genesis 37:9
And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and
said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and
the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

Made again?

And lest thou lift up
thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and
the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship
them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all
nations under the whole heaven.

again "LORD thy God hath divided unto all
nations under the whole heaven" he constitutes it to his work that was the point
go read your bible again because i dont want to smother you with qoutes where god says he made the moon

Looks clear to me that "god" thinks he created the moon my friend

I only anilized from what the bible said that their god is not the actual creater

"God didn't explain it all to us so we "can know", he did it so we can understand how to act" <-- convenient excuse dont you think!

And the point is to use direct causes if there was no moon(there would be no hight and low tide in the ocean) thus you would not be here so if the "gods" purpose was to create "you" he had to make sure there was a moon aswell

[Dragon]

Originally Posted by negate7o4

First of i didnt say he created light i used it as a example he could tell you how he made the lightbulp! because he is in fact the creator of the lightbulp
unlike the christian god who cant tell you how he made the universe/earth because he is not the creator

Genesis 1:16
And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day,
and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

so if god didnt make the moon what lesser light is the bible talking about

And i think you missed the point!! I Quoted directly from the king james bible. If you dont know what is the difference between the king james bible and the one you got your information go read again

God creates light and separates light from
darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet
he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun
and the stars) until the fourth day

Genesis 37:9
And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and
said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and
the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

Made again?

And lest thou lift up
thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and
the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship
them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all
nations under the whole heaven.

again "LORD thy God hath divided unto all
nations under the whole heaven" he constitutes it to his work that was the point
go read your bible again because i dont want to smother you with qoutes where god says he made the moon

Looks clear to me that "god" thinks he created the moon my friend

I only anilized from what the bible said that their god is not the actual creater

"God didn't explain it all to us so we "can know", he did it so we can understand how to act" <-- convenient excuse dont you think!

And the point is to use direct causes if there was no moon(there would be no hight and low tide in the ocean) thus you would not be here so if the "gods" purpose was to create "you" he had to make sure there was a moon aswell

I'm not trying to insult you or anything like that, you just seem a little hostyle towards my post.


That thing you said about a "convienient excuse" really isn't if you think about it though. The Bible wasn't meant to be a science book, we don't live by our knowledge of the timeline of events.

I have the King James version, as well as many others, have studied it to no end and still am. The part I was talking about in the King James version where he says "and he made the stars also", It dosen't actually say that in the original text, the scriptures, in hebrew. It's almost as if the narration stops in it's tracks and says "Oh by the way, he made the stars too"

I know alot about Astrology, but I don't want to make a long and dramatic post about that, my appleseed analogy applies to it as well. I do believe that God created the moon, my friend. I believe that he created everything. I paint pictures as one of the things that I do for a living. If a gave you a painting, and I told you that I created that painting, you would have to believe it. If you did a scientific study on it, you would infact find that the painting is the direct cause of the paintbrush. But It's like saying that I didn't raelly create the painting because it's been found out that the paint brush really did it. I could tell you that just because the paint brush is the direct cause dosen't mean that I still wasn['t the one doing it, but you can also tell me that it's just another convienent excuse. In the end You can either believe it or not, skepticism is normal.

Long post short, things in the Bible that seem like they were made again, are really re-tellings, but with a different purpose in mind.

Again, I never said that God never said that he made the moon, the point I was trying to make was that when you create something, the end result is created by you, no matter WHAT is inbetween. If the Orion nebula shot out beams of light which struck the surface of Pluto, and broke off a piece of Ice which then traveled 30 million years and struck a giant asteroid in space, and then that piece of asteroid then struck Earth causing a Piece to be removed and orbit the Earth, creating the moon, I would say that It's ultimately God's work. That's all I was saying. I believe in God.

I don't need to be smothered with Bible verses, as I've read a few different versions of them. I read them because many people will try to quote just certain phrases that will apply to their agenda, but I just wanted to read from cover to cover. I still have a few different Bibles. I also believe alot of the true maening behind most of the "poular" passages, as not the words, but the meanings mean different things for their times.

The paintbrush was just an example of what I meant by "direct cause". The VERY next thing in line. I used the paint brush to create that picture, but I am not God, I believe that God can use thousands of different works to create things, so I believe it when he says he did it.

The thing with Genesis, in recent years, is actually found to be very consistent. Especially light, it's been found that the sun, moon and stars are not the light causing bearers at all, that other, stronger forces of light existed before them, and currently without them. We can't see all of this type of light though, as a matter of fact, dark matter is only as dark to us as we see it, and isn't quite as dark through the eyes of other spieces, like flys for example. It's said that fly's see the true reality, and I guess that there's more "red" in life, and in light and dark, than what we see. I'm not saying this as an explanation to genesis or not, as there are many acurate explanations already available, but It's really just up to belief. I would only be a detractor of the Bible if I just simply didn't believe it.

I would like to talk about the Moon and the effect on the ocean ties for another topic in another thread though, I think it's an interesting topic, as well as all of Astrology as a matter of fact.

[negate7o4]

I understand. I meant no disrespect, It issint just that, i found 5 instances where "god" makes a conclusion that the earth is flat and that he stopped the sun from moving so that a war can finish. The sun never moved and that just lets me think more and more that christian god is not the real creator because he doesnt even know how everything works

I also believe in a God A bigger thing but for me personally i dont think i will find in a book. Can you Really define a God that created all the wonderous things in a book?

[Lychee]

Uh, did you totally miss that the sun is what is giving us light right now? Did you also miss that the moon reflects light off of the sun and does give light during the night time? (That isn't to say that I am Christian or believe in the Bible.)

Dragon is correct- explain building a car to a child. Why not walk into an elementary school and begin teaching multivariable calculus? You wouldn't because the child wouldn't understand it. Our knowledge is limited. If it wasn't limited, wouldn't have figured stuff out by now?

If you were God, why would you be subject to Law if you are the one who created the law to begin with? The idea of God having to go through puberty is ridiculous and absurd. Humans did not create the earth, humans didn't create the universe, and humans can't be God.

[Dragon]

Originally Posted by negate7o4

I understand. I meant no disrespect, It issint just that, i found 5 instances where "god" makes a conclusion that the earth is flat and that he stopped the sun from moving so that a war can finish. The sun never moved and that just lets me think more and more that christian god is not the real creator because he doesnt even know how everything works

I also believe in a God A bigger thing but for me personally i dont think i will find in a book. Can you Really define a God that created all the wonderous things in a book?

About tyring to define God in all his glory in a book, It can't, won't, and shouldn't happen. That's a point I was also trying to make actually. God, in his true ways, is simply too much for us to understand, which I accept.

The people in the Bible simply are not representors of God, except for Jesus anyway, who taught the people the right things. We're suppossed to look for God in our own soul, not in a book. The things said in the Bible are applying to those people and isn't meant to be scientifically acurate, when he talks about God saying this or God saying that, It's his understanding, not God's.

I do remember reading in the New testament somewhere (I'll have to dig it out later) That it was said that "God hangs the circle of the Earth in the middle of an empty void" among other similar passages. But we cannot take the Bible word for word today. For example, the word Circle in hebrew 2000 years ago meant a circle or a sphere, they shared the same name, so It's really just our pick what we want to believe.

I don't think It's really even about that though, I think that the important thing that we were suppossed to pay attention to all along, are the messages that are sent.

I think that If the Bible was made up by man, in those times, It would be WAY off compared to what it is. They didn't even know what the planet Earth was. Whenever the Bible speaks "Earth" they are NOT talking about the planet Earth, they knew no planets. They were talking about the ground, the dust, the soil. If they made it up, they could have sqaid that giant Elephants were holding up the Earth or something. It wouldn't have lasted for this long, that's for sure.

[negate7o4]

Originally Posted by Lychee

Uh, did you totally miss that the sun is what is giving us light right now? Did you also miss that the moon reflects light off of the sun and does give light during the night time? (That isn't to say that I am Christian or believe in the Bible.)

Did you miss the point! im not a morron off course the sun gives light and its obvious the people who wrote the bible also saw that!!! but that is all they saw. They only wrote and contributed functions of the sun and moon to that wich they could see! They didnt see that moon had more of a purpose.
just as a tv's purpose is not only to listen at it but to look at it aswell!!

And i know you cant explain to a child how a car is made but you dont go out at blatenly lie to a child and say the car is made out of plastic not metal?
its just a convenient excuse!

thats the point i was trying to make! the bible is telling you "the car is made out of plastic" If a god existed and he could not explain to as puny humans how he made the universe he would have said so right?

or would he have let it to our own imaginations(knowing our creativity since he is the creator) Not a smart move. "the child will grow up and notice the car is not made of plastic and he was lied to"

[valis]

one is faith, the other science. Never the twain shall meet. We've got proof of the big bang, so the question isn't DID the big bang happen, it's more along the lines of WHAT caused it to happen. The multiverse theory that Mayo mentioned is pretty much a mathematical certainty, especially when one gets to the quantum level. Once we answer one question regarding our origins, the next one will automatically pop up in the form of 'well, what created THAT?'.

Human nature.

[Lychee]

Firstly, I don't believe that the Bible is the unadulterated word of God. That said, you cannot base your disbelief in God solely on a the examination of one religion.

Let's go off the Bible altogether. You tell a child that a line on the graph is a "U" and the proper word for it is "parabola." If you tell the child that you can still call it a "U" since the child better understands it, is it still a lie? It is a U and it is a parabola, but to the child the U is more understandable. The equation which represents the parabola sets the standard, not you. Likewise, the Being who dictates the universe sets the standard, not us.

The Big Bang did occur but the Big Bang did not occur just out of nowhere. It's just like saying you're going to throw some stuff from a tool box in a random pile and out comes a car. Anyone who has taken biology can see that there is a force which is guiding development and sustaining it as well. What is that force? God.

[negate7o4]

Originally Posted by Dragon

The people in the Bible simply are not representors of God, except for Jesus anyway, who taught the people the right things. We're suppossed to look for God in our own soul, not in a book. The things said in the Bible are applying to those people and isn't meant to be scientifically acurate, when he talks about God saying this or God saying that, It's his understanding, not God's.

I do remember reading in the New testament somewhere (I'll have to dig it out later) That it was said that "God hangs the circle of the Earth in the middle of an empty void" among other similar passages. But we cannot take the Bible word for word today. For example, the word Circle in hebrew 2000 years ago meant a circle or a sphere, they shared the same name, so It's really just our pick what we want to believe.

I don't think It's really even about that though, I think that the important thing that we were suppossed to pay attention to all along, are the messages that are sent.

I think that If the Bible was made up by man, in those times, It would be WAY off compared to what it is. They didn't even know what the planet Earth was. Whenever the Bible speaks "Earth" they are NOT talking about the planet Earth, they knew no planets. They were talking about the ground, the dust, the soil. If they made it up, they could have sqaid that giant Elephants were holding up the Earth or something. It wouldn't have lasted for this long, that's for sure.

Ecclesiastes

"40:21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you
from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the
earth? 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and
the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the
heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
40:23 That bringeth the princes to nothing; he maketh the judges of
the earth as vanity." There is the versus you wanted

if its the word of god you should take it word for word but you cant these days because as you said the bible doesnt live up to science anymore and off course because of translation problems. Thats why i only quote from king james bible since it has only been translated once from the original hebrew text. so the king james bible is the closest you wil get to minimize translation problems

So now only that witch fits peoples description of Christianity is in context and that witch disproves the word of god are not in context and should be read word for word! again its just to make the most convenient excuse to prove absolute nothing!

Christianity is based on a jewish relegion just as mormans religion is now based on christianity. christianity was declared a religion only in 1300 by a frence ambassador i think. Before that it was seen as a cult

It is said the bible is the word of god in the odl testament god inspired the people what to wright and in the new testament jesus! in the old testament it was explained that god was in the head of the writers! the bible wanted to make it clear its the word of god not humans, so why now do you say "It's his understanding, not God's." your making a convenient excuse

But its the lessons as you said that is important! what lessons! the lessons that god makes war and killes thousands of people because they are differant! go read the old testament carefully this god is one of the most cruelist things ever existed. He wanted to kill children just because they werent surcomsized! And then suddenly he had a massive attitude change in the new testement! there are two gods in the bible. One according to moses the other according to jesus

[negate7o4]

Originally Posted by valis

one is faith, the other science. Never the twain shall meet. We've got proof of the big bang, so the question isn't DID the big bang happen, it's more along the lines of WHAT caused it to happen. The multiverse theory that Mayo mentioned is pretty much a mathematical certainty, especially when one gets to the quantum level. Once we answer one question regarding our origins, the next one will automatically pop up in the form of 'well, what created THAT?'.

Human nature.

what prove of the big bang its a theory. Have you ever heard of a term called absolute truth!
Please paste a link i want to see prove or reccomend a book or something i can see. It would be appreciated

[negate7o4]

Originally Posted by Lychee

Firstly, I don't believe that the Bible is the unadulterated word of God. That said, you cannot base your disbelief in God solely on a the examination of one religion.

if you read my posts you would see i said i believed in a God but not a false one the bible wants to flash around!

"The equation which represents the parabola sets the standard, not you"

are you just trying to bash me i set no stantard i only mentioned what doesnt make sense in the bible

for neither you nor i sets a standard

[valis]

Originally Posted by Lychee

Firstly, I don't believe that the Bible is the unadulterated word of God. That said, you cannot base your disbelief in God solely on a the examination of one religion.

Let's go off the Bible altogether. You tell a child that a line on the graph is a "U" and the proper word for it is "parabola." If you tell the child that you can still call it a "U" since the child better understands it, is it still a lie? It is a U and it is a parabola, but to the child the U is more understandable. The equation which represents the parabola sets the standard, not you. Likewise, the Being who dictates the universe sets the standard, not us.

The Big Bang did occur but the Big Bang did not occur just out of nowhere. It's just like saying you're going to throw some stuff from a tool box in a random pile and out comes a car. Anyone who has taken biology can see that there is a force which is guiding development and sustaining it as well. What is that force? God.

Agreed, for the most part. I never stated that I disbelieved in God, and I certainly didn't base anything on just one religion. I've studied many, and taken what *I* feel to be the most helpful to me from several.

I sense a strong creationistic tendency in you, and that is something I disagree with strongly, but am not going to look at you differently for believing it. My mother and sister (especially my sis) are both creationists, and while I have fun debating with them, that is there. The big bang simply provided the cosmos with buttloads of hydrogen, which eventually clumped together enough to form starts, which in turn began nuclear fusion, which in turn began tossing off other elements, as the nuclear fusion carries more than enough energy required to move protons around (and that's really all transmutation is; the manipulation of protons; heck, we've done it with lead to gold here on earth).

I tend to believe that the big bang is responsible for this universe, but am more curious as to what created the big bang. As for biology, there are simply too many visible proofs of evolution for me to think that intelligent design was at work.

[negate7o4]

Originally Posted by valis

I tend to believe that the big bang is responsible for this universe, but am more curious as to what created the big bang. As for biology, there are simply too many visible proofs of evolution for me to think that intelligent design was at work.

the only proof of evolution is in micro organisms. Or did you see a half man monkey walk around that i didnt? hehehe only a joke! I believe it is called the missing links?
evolution is a long process but yet for more that thousands of years that we have kept records we see nothing of half ape men and why do we only see evolution in micro organisms! did the process that caused ape to evolve in man dissapear?

[valis]

not in the least. Look at it this way; whales have, or had, feet. Birds are considered living fossils. Do you think that poodles spontaneously burst on the scene during the paleolithic age?

Evolution is all around. homo sap descended from a common ancestor, along with most primates. We evolved differently, grew a bigger brain, etc. There is little doubt about that.

As one looks back into earth's geology, at first, there are no fossils whatsoever. Then there were invertebrates.....those lasted many millions of years. Then vertebrates, vastly more complex organisms, began to appear. Then all hades broke lose, with dinos, mammals, you name it, being found in more recent layers of rocks.

There is proof of evolution all around; all one has to do is look. Again, I choose not to criticize creationism, as I realize that that is one's belief, and I fail to see any reason to criticize anyone's belief as long as it doesn't harm innocents, but evolution is a fact, friend, and thinking otherwise is thinking without all the facts present.

[Dragon]

Originally Posted by negate7o4

Ecclesiastes

"40:21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you
from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the
earth? 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and
the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the
heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
40:23 That bringeth the princes to nothing; he maketh the judges of
the earth as vanity." There is the versus you wanted

if its the word of god you should take it word for word but you cant these days because as you said the bible doesnt live up to science anymore and off course because of translation problems. Thats why i only quote from king james bible since it has only been translated once from the original hebrew text. so the king james bible is the closest you wil get to minimize translation problems

So now only that witch fits peoples description of Christianity is in context and that witch disproves the word of god are not in context and should be read word for word! again its just to make the most convenient excuse to prove absolute nothing!

Christianity is based on a jewish relegion just as mormans religion is now based on christianity. christianity was declared a religion only in 1300 by a frence ambassador i think. Before that it was seen as a cult

It is said the bible is the word of god in the odl testament god inspired the people what to wright and in the new testament jesus! in the old testament it was explained that god was in the head of the writers! the bible wanted to make it clear its the word of god not humans, so why now do you say "It's his understanding, not God's." your making a convenient excuse

But its the lessons as you said that is important! what lessons! the lessons that god makes war and killes thousands of people because they are differant! go read the old testament carefully this god is one of the most cruelist things ever existed. He wanted to kill children just because they werent surcomsized! And then suddenly he had a massive attitude change in the new testement! there are two gods in the bible. One according to moses the other according to jesus

I've read It, many times, have had it read to me, have had Many Bible scholors themselves read it to me, have had astronomers and professional scientists that where also Bible scholors help me understand it as well, so Yes, i've read it. I hope you were'nt just trying to be smart just because I disagree with you.

Actually, although I understand, I don't think that's the quote I was talking about, not really sure. But, nothing I'm saying is a convenient excuse, many people, including in Biblical times, will speak God in ways that is covenient foe their agenda, trying to fear others and what not, just like many churches do today. This isn't to say that the Bible is or isn't the unadulterated word of God, I don't know, but the lessons I speak of are everywhere today. I really don't even want to get into that, you can pick and choose what is in the Bible as "lessons" and abide by that and use them as examples, but I'm not going to say that you're just using a convienient excuse just because you don't agree with me, and neither is anything I say. Most of what is in the old testament applies to people living in the times of the old testament, and most of what is in the new testament applies to the people living in the age of the new testament. Some may be stories, some may have actually happened, we don't know, but we can apply all of it to our lives in some way, an there's nothing wrong with that.

We live how we live, and God won't change that altogether, he will just show us the right way based off the things that we know. More people kill in the name of God than many other things, that dosen't mean that's what God wants. If people believe that, Biblical times or not, then they're the ones with the problem, not God. We don't live in those times, so It's impossible to know. Just because we can't figure out some things dosen't mean it's all wrong, then I would just be looking for a reason not to believe.

There's a HECK of alot more to this though than what I'm mentiong, You'll just have to trust me on that. The coversations I had with those above mentioned people were extremely long, lasted weeks. I've been down this road many times already, and I've always studied Science as well as God throughout my life, and I've always reguarded the Bible as something that was full of errors and inconcistencies untill recently, when It all came together. It's not my job to try to make sense of it for other people. Sometimes, we just have to go on our own spiritual journeys. And yes, before you accuse me of it again, it does sound like I'm making a convenient excuse, I'm not fully elaborating on what's in my head. Sorry you feel that way about what I say, but I won't let it bother me.

We either believe or we don't, bottom line.




EDIT- I will thank you though for trying to dig out the passage for me. JOB 26:7 is the one I was looking for reguarding the "void".

[negate7o4]

Originally Posted by valis

not in the least. Look at it this way; whales have, or had, feet. Birds are considered living fossils. Do you think that poodles spontaneously burst on the scene during the paleolithic age?

Evolution is all around. homo sap descended from a common ancestor, along with most primates. We evolved differently, grew a bigger brain, etc. There is little doubt about that.

As one looks back into earth's geology, at first, there are no fossils whatsoever. Then there were invertebrates.....those lasted many millions of years. Then vertebrates, vastly more complex organisms, began to appear. Then all hades broke lose, with dinos, mammals, you name it, being found in more recent layers of rocks.

There is proof of evolution all around; all one has to do is look. Again, I choose not to criticize creationism, as I realize that that is one's belief, and I fail to see any reason to criticize anyone's belief as long as it doesn't harm innocents, but evolution is a fact, friend, and thinking otherwise is thinking without all the facts present.

Very interessting. But what bugs me you say more complex organisms appeared. For example if you look at the cellphone it was in the beginnig as big as a brick and now look how small it is. Then if you had a god that created life would he also start at the bigger not so complex organisms like dino's.

I can see the facts in what you say
its just hard for me to crasp the concept evolution is alot like adaption to changing enviroment! and to think that your brain evolved to bigger size is saying that intelegence and not consiousness plays a part in our existance here on earth! so if we die, there will be nothing(positive point on that is we wont remember lol,)

but in the end its facts you should look at not delusioned claimes of truth
you seem to know alot about evolution could you maybe post some interesting reading or video material that i could have a gander at

[Lychee]

OP:

if you read my posts you would see i said i believed in a God but not a false one the bible wants to flash around!

You said you believed which is past tense. It sounded like you don't believe in God altogether and if that idea is false, then it was a misunderstanding.

are you just trying to bash me i set no stantard i only mentioned what doesnt make sense in the bible

I'm not trying to bash you. I meant to say that if God wanted to explain something, He will to what He believes is best not because we should have any expectations of what He should disclose.

valis:

The last part of my previous post was written to the general audience and not you in particular.

Everyone has their own beliefs and I surely wasn't trying to enforce mine on anyone - I was just speaking about my own. And regarding evolution...it is still a theory, not a fact. There is a missing piece to the puzzle which prevents scientists from declaring evolution to be true. Why is that if there is overwhelming evidence to support it? Evolution cannot explain many things in this life.

Would you say there are chances in life? Every minute experience happens for a reason and there is no denying that. Many mutations are detrimental to a person's health, yet somehow mutations and changes in DNA structure allowed for millions of years of progress just because? Fossils do not show the actual transitional forms of an animal's structure - how can you connect the dots when the most essential is missing? How did consciousness form from evolution, the soul? Evolution only answers for the "practical" or physical changes that it undergoes but nothing of the soul.

Just fun things to debate about lol

[negate7o4]

Originally Posted by Lychee

OP:


Would you say there are chances in life? Every minute experience happens for a reason and there is no denying that. Many mutations are detrimental to a person's health, yet somehow mutations and changes in DNA structure allowed for millions of years of progress just because? Fossils do not show the actual transitional forms of an animal's structure - how can you connect the dots when the most essential is missing? How did consciousness form from evolution, the soul? Evolution only answers for the "practical" or physical changes that it undergoes but nothing of the soul.

Just fun things to debate about lol

Good point but the physical is based on facts as pointed out, the soul and consiousness is assumptions that we make. The brain has alot of little things that control you mentaly and physicly Like for example The RAS is a small section in your brain that filters information for you, so that you only get what is important to you based on you situation, beliefs and culture ex ex.
for example if you are starving your brain wont allow you to think about having a OBE it would filter information so that you only focus on getting food.

Maybe other parts of the brain give you the feeling of having consiouness or a delusioned consiouness
its easy to make assumptions so is my assumption, or the assumption that we have a soul or seperate consiouness or global consiousness correct

(The RAS also brings your body in a state of being awake)
And new studies on the brain was done in germany where people are asked multichoice questions about feelings and math questions. They are hooked up to a computer and everytime the computer predicted what the answer of the multichoice question before the person even put in his answer

[valis]

Originally Posted by negate7o4

Very interessting. But what bugs me you say more complex organisms appeared. For example if you look at the cellphone it was in the beginnig as big as a brick and now look how small it is. Then if you had a god that created life would he also start at the bigger not so complex organisms like dino's.

I can see the facts in what you say
its just hard for me to crasp the concept evolution is alot like adaption to changing enviroment! and to think that your brain evolved to bigger size is saying that intelegence and not consiousness plays a part in our existance here on earth! so if we die, there will be nothing(positive point on that is we wont remember lol,)

but in the end its facts you should look at not delusioned claimes of truth
you seem to know alot about evolution could you maybe post some interesting reading or video material that i could have a gander at

bigger but no so complex? Bigger is ALWAYS more complex. In everything. The least complex thing is a unicellular organism. The greater the size, the greater the intake, the more reasoning for foraging for food, all the extra stuff that must go along with keeping something that size alive.

Evolution is literally all around us. I read something useful in Scientific American the other day about how we share a common genetic chunk with a worm and a fly, and it deploys itself differently in each aspect. In us, it helps build a throat. In the fly, the thorax. In the worm, some worm part. I dunno.

But evolution is literally all around. All one has to do is look for it. Look at how fish have evolved over the years, compared to fossil records and the coelecanth. Look at how hominids themselves have evolved, going from the stone age to the bronze age to where we are now. We are different people than we were 20k years ago, when we were hunter/gatherers, as we hadn't mastered the agrarian sciences yet. We are taller, less dense, and less suited to cold weather than we were back then. Yet it's still homo sap.

Every dog has wolf dna in him. Imagine that. Granted, that's selective breeding, but selective breeding isn't all THAT different from evolution. There a lot of facts out there; google "proof of evolution" and read up on some of the hits; be sure to include the quotation marks, as that will narrow it down to those sites that contain only that phrase.

v

[Gene]

Originally Posted by negate7o4

If we ask thomas edison how he made the lightbulb he could answer us because he created it. as a EX christian why doesnt god ever say how he created the earth.

Even if God told me how, that is the mechanics of creating the universe would I be able to understand?

To use the example of Edison and the invention of the light bulb would someone living in the world of the dark ages have been able to understand Edison's explanation? I suspect the person of that other era would hear it was created by magic.

Arthur C. Clarke said, "Magic is any sufficiently advanced technology." If God explained his method(s) to me I might well mentally translate his narrative to "magic" inside my mind.

[negate7o4]

first of you took my point out of context!(seems to be my fault since i suck at explaining and english is not my first language)

its obvious that the wondrous universe cannot be explained in a book or it can't be explained at all witch is just a excuse.

i didnt ask you or god to explain to me how the earth was made did I? i asked who really created it? and the point that you took out of context was only to explain that in a sense god blatantly lied about his reason for creating stuff! read the entire thing.

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by negate7o4

its obvious that the wondrous universe cannot be explained in a book or it can't be explained at all witch is just a excuse.

i didnt ask you or god to explain to me how the earth was made did I? i asked who really created it? and the point that you took out of context was only to explain that in a sense god blatantly lied about his reason for creating stuff! read the entire thing.

What other books did you look in?