Beauty and Being in the Moment

[Takuin Minamoto]

This is the first thread I have posted to this forum. There are such wonderful people here, from all over the world, and I am happy to be a part of this. A big thanks go to Steve for setting this whole thing up.

I thought it might be nice to get to know each other a little better here, so I have a question to ask to all of you. Two questions, I guess.

#1. What does it mean to be in the moment?

and

#2. What is beauty to you?

I am not asking to receive an answer to implement some action; I just want to get to know the wonderful people that frequent this forum. With so many deep minds present, this could be a thread that goes on for quite awhile.

To be in the moment is to be new constantly. I just finished a post relating to these questions on my blog. It is a wonderful topic to consider for yourselves.

I hope to read many interesting answers soon.

Takuin Minamoto

[Takuin Minamoto]

Originally Posted by LoveWisdom

#1 I don't know

#2 I don't know

Alright! Honesty is welcome here.

[Takuin Minamoto]

Originally Posted by LoveWisdom

I don't really feel personal development is correct. How come your here? Are you another enlightened person?

I don't quite understand. Do you mean to say that the idea or concept of personal development is wrong? Or do you mean that I should have put this thread in another category?

Why am I here, meaning at this website? Where should I be?

And what do you mean by "another" enlightened person?

Actually, the answers are outside of the subject of this thread. Maybe we should P.M. if we want to continue this?

But, I am glad you are here. Maybe everyone else is sleeping right now?

[Michael Chui]

Re: "What is beauty to you?"

I'm a generalist, so I'll give a general answer. I think that beauty is concordance: it's a descriptor of how much something matches up to an ideal.

[Takuin Minamoto]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

Re: "What is beauty to you?"

I'm a generalist, so I'll give a general answer. I think that beauty is concordance: it's a descriptor of how much something matches up to an ideal.

I see, I see. Nice answer. And the ideal is the thing with which you are seeing beauty; if it matches, it is beauty, and if not, it isn't. Is that right?

If you didn't have the ideal at all, how would you see things? What would then be beautiful?

How is our ideal generated in the first place? What is the thing that creates it?

[Freelancer]

#1. What does it mean to be in the moment?

and

#2. What is beauty to you?

#1 Logically it would be "not being in the future/past".
#2 Everything is beautifull in one way or another, although I must admit that our female counterparts sure look really amazing.

[Takuin Minamoto]

Originally Posted by Freelancer

#1 Logically it would be "not being in the future/past".
#2 Everything is beautifull in one way or another, although I must admit that our female counterparts sure look really amazing.

Ha ha! I like that one.

Logically, you are correct. To be present would be to function without the past or the future (they are really the same things, anyway). In that moment, you are greeted by everything immediately. Time or thought has no place in there.

So, what is it that can bring us into the present and keep us there?

[Takuin Minamoto]

Originally Posted by LoveWisdom

Conditioning mostly. But sometimes not.

It may seem that others condition us, but I question that. Could it be that we allow ourselves to believe the conditions set upon us, and feeling safe in there, we adopt it as the truth?

But what is it that creates the ideal? Can it come from outside of us? I do not see how it can. It certainly seems that way. But can something outside of us be the cause? We have to accept it, either through reasoning, or fear (are those the same thing?).

I guess I should have asked, what is the mechanism that creates the ideals within us?

I ask too many questions? (even that was a question! Ha)

[Takuin Minamoto]

Originally Posted by LoveWisdom

God I guess. Stop thinking.

Haha.

(you now what is coming...)

But what is God? Is it something that someone else has taught me?

(I couldn't resist!)

I'll be quiet for a bit, and let others do some talking.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Takuin Minamoto

If you didn't have the ideal at all, how would you see things? What would then be beautiful?

Either everything, or more likely, nothing.

Originally Posted by Takuin Minamoto

How is our ideal generated in the first place? What is the thing that creates it?

Yourself. It's a component of one's perspective: an ideal is that which we desire, but do not have, nor expect. So, when one encounters something beautiful, they are surprised to see so much of what they desire. Even when you anticipate beauty, what actually invokes the experience of it is the astonishment that it exists at all.

[Takuin Minamoto]

I wish to see everyone extraordinarily beautiful. I hear it's possible.

It is possible. Keep questioning or inquiring and it could show up.

It seems to be the trigger.

"Seems" is the right word here, isn't it. It seems to be, but is it?

Accept what? I've never considered reasoning as fear.

Sorry about that, I wasn't very clear. I meant to say that we have to accept the conditioning. We have to accept that the conditions being set upon us are true.

You mean where do ideas come from?

YES! Where do our ideals come from.

No

Nice of you to say that!

I am really liking the interactivity of this thing.

[Takuin Minamoto]

I don't like that word "could" ha! ha! I hear it's though Gods Grace, and God Grace is a promise. So how could it be "could?"

Oops! I didn't see how that could got snuck in there! I don't like to use that word, but sometimes, it comes out. Bad habits, right? Anyway, through questioning or inquiring, whatever you want to call it, it is possible. Beauty, for me, is when there is no thought coming between you and whatever it is you are seeing. Otherwise, we are always comparing or seeing it against our ideas and ideals; comparing it to something else tells us that it is beautiful. For me, that is not seeing anything at all. We just see our idea of it.

You know, this can be difficult to talk about because of the language. I mean, if I talk about love or beauty, how do I know that we are even talking about the same thing? That is one reason why I ask so many questions. I want to know what these words mean for others. It helps to eliminate some of the confusion that might normally follow around a subject like this.

Yes, we have to accept that. But some of our conditioning seems to have been perverted.

Like the Tao says: "Untie your knots"

Quite true. We are perverted!

Our ideas seem to come from "nowhere" through the mechanism of inspiration.

My bad again. I meant to say ideals and not ideas.

Me too!

Well, it appears we are the only two awake here. But I am in Japan so it is only 6:30 pm. I guess it is still too early for others to chime in effectively, eh?

[Takuin Minamoto]

Here's my concept of beautiful. Something beautiful seems to "inspire." Be it music, nature, people, truth, art. It seems to evoke a feeling of inspiration or reverence or aw. The intensity of this feeling seems to very according to the "amount" of beauty that is perceived.

Is that clear? Is that correct?

I got it. Quite right. I know what you mean by the intensity, and that is where I was stuck, in that superficial perception of beauty. Kind of the "see only the outside" type of looking, i.e., he/she is hot, he/she is not. This car is cool, but that one is just weird looking. Those things persisted. Whenever I saw a Scion, I used to think they had just a terrible design. I would think, why the heck would anyone want to drive such an un-aerodynamic car? But now, when I see one, there is great beauty there, because I do not see the thing with my thoughts; just with the physical eyes. And besides, machines are marvelous, aren't they? Just imagine, someone knows how to build something like that. Their knowledge and skill becomes a physical reality. Quite amazing.

I am still not sure if I would buy one though

Yes, but then we have to consider how to define "write" and "wrong," where in reality there is only perfection. Perfection doesnt seem to mean everything is "good." How do you determine what is chosen as "write' or "wrong?" Does this not come from our conditioning?

Perfection is reality, you are quite right. I mean, in reality, you find perfection. When one is in the moment, the question of right and wrong disappears. There is only (and how can I say this) whatever physical sensations happen to be there. I don't quite have the words yet. That is one reason I write my blog. I want to know the words to use. It is difficult for me to express, even though it is here.

No problem! Please explain the difference?

I use the word idea to mean a formulated thought. Not necessarily, "My name is Takuin," but more like, "Since the highway is jammed, let's take the next exit and sneak around on a back road."

That last sentence could be prefaced with, "I have an idea!"

An ideal, however, is a standard we try to attain or live up to, even though it doesn't match reality. Think about it; if our ideals matched reality, we would not need the ideal. We wouldn't even think about it. We only notice the ideal when we are in conflict with reality.

It can get really touchy here. Someone might say that we need an ideal to attain any goal. I don't see that as true, although I understand what they mean. If someone wants to lose weight, they might visualize their ideal body. But that is not how I am using the word.

Damn that Samuel Johnson!!

What does it matter? I'm finding value in our conversation.

Same here.

[Lallymac]

For me
#1 To be in the moment, Those moments when life opens up, expands and I can feel a part of myself in every living thing around me. I can feel people's feelings, hear their thoughts, be aware of their gestures without judgement. When I can feel myself as vast as the sky above, as deep as the earth beneath me, in the trees, the grass and the air itself. When I feel connected to life itself and feel the sheer joy of existance.

#2 Beauty is the smile on a babies face, the soft grey hairs that spring from my fathers ears, a tui hanging upside down on the fragile tip off the bottle brush outside my window, rain on the roof, wind in the sail, honesty, family, friends, genuine laughter/tears. Beauty is wherever life reveals more of itself to us.
Lallymac

[Takuin Minamoto]

Originally Posted by Lallymac

For me
#1 To be in the moment, Those moments when life opens up, expands and I can feel a part of myself in every living thing around me. I can feel people's feelings, hear their thoughts, be aware of their gestures without judgement. When I can feel myself as vast as the sky above, as deep as the earth beneath me, in the trees, the grass and the air itself. When I feel connected to life itself and feel the sheer joy of existance.

#2 Beauty is the smile on a babies face, the soft grey hairs that spring from my fathers ears, a tui hanging upside down on the fragile tip off the bottle brush outside my window, rain on the roof, wind in the sail, honesty, family, friends, genuine laughter/tears. Beauty is wherever life reveals more of itself to us.
Lallymac

That is quite beautiful. And life reveals itself to us, because we are life. We are the entirety of this world.

What a lovely post.

[Takuin Minamoto]

This is where I start getting upset. For one thing I bet you anything I could piss you off. ha! ha!

Not sure what brought that on, but it is fine with me. Not fine that you are upset, but fine that you feel that way. I wouldn't want to change you or anything. Hmm...maybe it was my comment about the Scion?

For another thing there is nothing practical in what you are saying here.

I certainly understand that you feel that way. You see no value in seeing things as they are? In living your life without the prejudices and comparisons that tear humanity apart? I don't want to put words in your mouth, if that is not what you are saying. I am sure that it is my inadequate way of communicating it. Like I said before, the reason I started my blog is to figure out what I mean to say (if that makes any sense).

Another thing is there is someone I trust very much who says enlightenment is a form of specialness.

Well, that is something. But have you seen it for yourself?

Plus, I need time to consider what your saying. I'm very sleepy as I've been up all night.

You are right. I always have too many questions.

But I do thank you for your time and hope we do it agian.

Same here. Nice to have met you.

[Freelancer]

I got it. Quite right. I know what you mean by the intensity, and that is where I was stuck, in that superficial perception of beauty. Kind of the "see only the outside" type of looking, i.e., he/she is hot, he/she is not. This car is cool, but that one is just weird looking. Those things persisted. Whenever I saw a Scion, I used to think they had just a terrible design. I would think, why the heck would anyone want to drive such an un-aerodynamic car? But now, when I see one, there is great beauty there, because I do not see the thing with my thoughts; just with the physical eyes. And besides, machines are marvelous, aren't they? Just imagine, someone knows how to build something like that. Their knowledge and skill becomes a physical reality. Quite amazing.

I am still not sure if I would buy one though

If you can expand that view to not only cars but to everything you will notice that there's beauty everywhere. Just look at your hands and the way the muscle's contract, imagine the complexity behind those simple moves. If you start to understand this than your awe struck, atleast it is for me. That kind of awe at the world and the way it functions is slowly returning to me, look at a child and the way it views the world. A child see's beauty everywhere, to bad they can't speak yet...

Ha ha! I like that one.

Logically, you are correct. To be present would be to function without the past or the future (they are really the same things, anyway). In that moment, you are greeted by everything immediately. Time or thought has no place in there.

So, what is it that can bring us into the present and keep us there?

Now it gets interesting, the first question was rather easy but this one is several times tougher. I'd say your in the present if your thoughts about the future/past are not 'polluting' your mind. After all the future and past are only really 'real' in our thoughts so if you eliminate the thoughts than your in the present. Which is coincidentally also the goal of most meditation practices.

[Takuin Minamoto]

Now it gets interesting, the first question was rather easy but this one is several times tougher.

Exactly. As we progress through this inquiry of ourselves, the questions have to go deeper. We can't just stay on that outer "level". It is surprising sometimes, that very few people go any deeper than certain superficial levels.

Good post, btw!

[Freelancer]

Originally Posted by Takuin Minamoto

Exactly. As we progress through this inquiry of ourselves, the questions have to go deeper. We can't just stay on that outer "level". It is surprising sometimes, that very few people go any deeper than certain superficial levels.

Good post, btw!

haha thanks, kinda expected more questions.

[ZHereford]

I hate to use this cliche but it holds true:

"Beauty is altogether in the eye of the beholder."

Also to be in the moment means to not be distracted by anything else.

It means to appreciate and participate in what is happening now. It means not to get stuck in the past or be worried about the future.

[CFPurpose]

#1. What does it mean to be in the moment?

For me it is where you are accepting all that is within your life for the moment at hand. It is knowing that each and every thought, problem, situation and stance is being handled and guided as it should be. It is not contemplating on future problems but truly surrending all fears and worries to the universe and accepting everything right then and there just as it is. Being in the moment actually offers great peace regardless of the circumstances or situation surrounding that particular moment.

and

#2. What is beauty to you?

Yeesh. Such a simple question with such an extensive multi-direction answer. Let me try to test myself and bunch this into something simple. (long break)

Beauty to me is anything (person, place, thing, thought, emotion, sense) that resognates within us and brings us joy.

[Simmiah]

Originally Posted by Takuin Minamoto

This is the first thread I have posted to this forum. There are such wonderful people here, from all over the world, and I am happy to be a part of this. A big thanks go to Steve for setting this whole thing up.

I thought it might be nice to get to know each other a little better here, so I have a question to ask to all of you. Two questions, I guess.

#1. What does it mean to be in the moment?

and

#2. What is beauty to you?

I am not asking to receive an answer to implement some action; I just want to get to know the wonderful people that frequent this forum. With so many deep minds present, this could be a thread that goes on for quite awhile.

Hello & welcome! I am also glad to see you here & hope we can learn from one another.

#1: I think it is as Hawkins describes it. There comes a point where the absolute splendor of everything/allness becomes so overwhelming your mind shuts up in awe. Heh. I'm not there but I am starting to see the beauty in things.

#2: Heh. The 2nd question I think for me is tied to the first. For me beauty is something that I am joyfully partaking in because of God/Allah/Source/Creator/Allness/whatever you wanna call it.. & it is a reflection of the presence of God in all things. It is easier for me to see it in nature but I am starting to see it even in things that don't seem of God initially to my mind.

That's where I'm at!

[ethereal]

1) Being in the present has a distinct "feel" to it that you can actually experience, it is not just a state of mind or mental concept. It's where time seems to slow down, everything goes in slow-motion, where thoughts stop and there is this deafening stillness all around, where every leaf that moves seems to be following some intelligent pattern, doing its individual dance within the universal dance, where every tiny little thing suddenly has profound meaning and significance, where self-consciousness temporarily disappears and the joy of existence shines forth. "Intensely happy to be alive" summarizes it pretty well

2) Beauty is the recognition of Divinity as it manifests in physical existence. Due to conditioning, karmic propensity, environment, upbringing, etc., people will find beauty in different things -- for example, the mathematician finding beauty in elegant theorems and proofs, the astronomer finding beauty in the stars, the poet in words, the composer in music, etc. But no matter the form, it is still the same beauty they are recognizing within their own awareness, that Divinity exists in all things and thus it is possible to be recognized by those who can. This Divinity is more apparent in certain things than others, which makes it more easily recognizible and thus accepted by all of society to be "beautiful" -- great art paintings, holy/sacred buildings, operas, classical music compositions, etc.

I want to make the distinction between glamour and beauty. Glamour is a projection of value in people's minds, in which desireability inflates expected worth. There is this special, edgy type of energy of wantingness and desire associated with glamour, and it actually exists as a kind of energy-field that affects the collective human consciousness. That's why certain things are wanted and desired by large populations, sometimes beyond rationality. Fads are a common example of this. Money is another good example, one that affects the entire world. It's just paper, when you think about it -- but people are willing to die for it.

People and physical beauty is another example. More often than not, physical beauty is tainted by glamour and desire -- that's where obsession and infatuation comes from. Physical beauty can be a manifestation of Divine beauty, but it is something you have reference for and worship for its own sake, and not something you want to take and hoard -- that's how I tell the difference.

You've probably had the experience of wanting something, but once you get it you don't want it anymore -- that's glamour. You ascertain its true worth when you get it, and realize that it didn't match your expectations of projected value. True beauty on the other hand, is permanent because it is recognition of Divine Essence inherent in all things, not a projection of value.

As Dr. Hawkins says, beauty is one of the pathways to God. You know you're getting close to enlightenment when you start crying at everything, because everything becomes beautiful when you see Divinity everywhere.

[Takuin Minamoto]

Originally Posted by Freelancer

haha thanks, kinda expected more questions.

Well, we all have to sleep sometime.

[Simmiah]

Originally Posted by Takuin Minamoto

"Has anyone actually seen another person, even in a thirty year relationship? Any image destroys the ability to see. Drop the image, and the person will appear."

Thought I'd comment here. Your quote is dead-on from what I can understand right now. Hmm & I read your blog. Interesting This is exactly what I am working on right now. Not projecting my internal stuff onto this world & not seeing what "is" but rather seeing what "is" & letting it all be.

[Groundless]

1) Being in the present has a distinct "feel" to it that you can actually experience, it is not just a state of mind or mental concept. It's where time seems to slow down, everything goes in slow-motion, where thoughts stop and there is this deafening stillness all around, where every leaf that moves seems to be following some intelligent pattern, doing its individual dance within the universal dance, where every tiny little thing suddenly has profound meaning and significance, where self-consciousness temporarily disappears and the joy of existence shines forth. "Intensely happy to be alive" summarizes it pretty well

I agree. this description is what I experience also. I am enjoying this.

2) I am. Here, there, up, down, you, that, are all me. I am. I am perfect as I am. I am a spiritual being among spiritual beings which are all one. How could anything be ugly - it is all beautiful.

[Michael Chui]

And to answer this question, I shamelessly steal a koan:

Originally Posted by Takuin Minamoto

#1. What does it mean to be in the moment?

Zen students are with their masters at least ten years before they presume to teach others. Nan-in was visited by Tenno, who, having passed his apprenticeship, had become a teacher. The day happened to be rainy, so Tenno wore wooden clogs and carried an umbrella. After greeting him Nan-in remarked: "I suppose you left your wodden clogs in the vestibule. I want to know if your umbrella is on the right or left side of the clogs."

Tenno, confused, had no instant answer. He realized that he was unable to carry his Zen every minute. He became Nan-in's pupil, and he studied six more years to accomplish his every-minute Zen.

Koan : Every-Minute Zen

[Takuin Minamoto]

Originally Posted by Simmiah

Thought I'd comment here. Your quote is dead-on from what I can understand right now. Hmm & I read your blog. Interesting This is exactly what I am working on right now. Not projecting my internal stuff onto this world & not seeing what "is" but rather seeing what "is" & letting it all be.

Thanks. That is the reason for my blog. I wanted to find out how to talk about it. I tried to talk about it before, but I couldn't speak. Literally, I would just sit there, waiting. Made for a few akward moments.

Some people think that seeing "what is and letting it all be," means you are a zombie and indifferent to whatever happens. That isn't the case. Once you are in the moment, there is so much energy there because you are not wasting it anymore. All of those old patterns cease, and all of that newly released energy comes to the front. From there, everything becomes pure or right action or whatever you want to call it. It isn't even like it is "right" action; it is the ONLY action.

Am I making any sense? Perhaps I should go back to work at my blog.

[Bruce Achterberg]

Originally Posted by Takuin Minamoto

I thought it might be nice to get to know each other a little better here, so I have a question to ask to all of you. Two questions, I guess.

#1. What does it mean to be in the moment?

and

#2. What is beauty to you?

Firstly I’ll say that those questions were extremely difficult to answer. It took me a while to come up with something I was satisfied with, but I’m please to say I’ve come up with something that I feel does both questions justice.

I'll answer both questions with a singular answer. I could go into A LOT more detail, but I think my answer will say more then my endless rambling ever could. I’m sure my answer won’t be understood by everyone, but hopefully their will be a few who can appreciate it (or you can just call me insane... your choice ).

This is my answer:

[Freelancer]

Originally Posted by Bruce Achterberg

Firstly I’ll say that those questions were extremely difficult to answer. It took me a while to come up with something I was satisfied with, but I’m please to say I’ve come up with something that I feel does both questions justice.

I'll answer both questions with a singular answer. I could go into A LOT more detail, but I think my answer will say more then my endless rambling ever could. I’m sure my answer won’t be understood by everyone, but hopefully their will be a few who can appreciate it (or you can just call me insane... your choice ).

This is my answer:

I'd say that sums it up.