Does animals have souls?

[DaveTyler]

Do animals have the sense of "I" in them, free will and overall a soul?
Could a cat become enlightened?

[soccer7]

lol an enlighten cat, hahaha, thats gave me a funny image.

Wondering streets in search of higher self, refusing to eat meat, and meditating under a tree. i dont think animals, have a concous, they are probably not develpoed enough intelligently to be aware of the true nature of reality, and hence cannot be enlightened.

but then i could be wrong, just my opion, perhaps Erin can enlighten us abit on this one, its great how she is able to communicate with higher self and ask any question, and get wise answers. I'm gona go work on that.

[Carezza7]

Great thread!

Animals, being sentient beings, in my opinion, would have to have souls. It is too often, sadly, the case that humans, thinking themselves "advanced" or "enlightened" or "Masters of the Universe" due to physical size of the brain, just assume that animals don't have thoughts or feelings or emotions...therefore we can do whatever we want to them. Admittedly, their thoughts, feelings and emotions MAY not be like ours (or they may be...).

The fact is....We don't know for a fact that they don't think or feel.

So I believe that we have to act as if our animal friends have thoughts, feelings, emotions and, yes indeed, souls.

[Dharma]

Animals know more about you than you know about you.
Yes, they are quite conscious. Everything has consciousness though it might be expressed differently from form to form.

We're all enlightened, we're just pretending we're not.

[Ryualyn]

Animals do not posses "souls" in the form of going to a heaven or paradise upon death. According to Christianity at least.

I beleive most animals operate on a series of instincts and pre-determined actions. What form of free-will can any animal express? If free will is making a rational choice then all animals have free will, they choose to eat, feed and procreate.

However, free will as displayed by humans is realising the rational choice, and having identified what is rational and irrational then being able to choose to do the irrational thing.

[Groundless]

Do animals have the sense of "I" in them, free will and overall a soul?
Could a cat become enlightened?

The animal is I also.

You have no soul. The cat has no soul.
(Soul: something mysterious and separate from you - there is no separateness it is all indivisible)

Animals know more about you than you know about you.
Yes, they are quite conscious. Everything has consciousness though it might be expressed differently from form to form.

We're all enlightened, we're just pretending we're not.

This resonates as very true. I believe we're = everything. But it is not a "soul".

[MindReality]

The only two beings in the universe that are of higher consciousness are Man and Angel. Only Man and Angel have true volition and freewill.

Therefore only Man and Angel are spirits that have permanant individuation. They will retain individuality even when they merge with the source.

All other forms of consciousness like minerals, plants and animals will return to non individuation with the source when they "die".

Animals have souls, everything has soul because everything has some form of "mind". But their souls are different from ours.

[DaveTyler]

Thanks, yeah animals must have souls, otherwise they'd all be the same, and every animal has their own personality.
Though it would be nice with a enlightened cat

[Lychee]

I believe so.

[DoAnyOfYouExist]

I believe that people who "mess up" in this life and never reach a higher ground, living only to survive and procreate end up being reborn as animals. They never reached enlightenment in their life and they fell too far. Their animal desires caused them to reincarnate as an animal. I do believe animals are conscious and have "souls" though.

[DaveTyler]

but they must be given a second chance?:P

[Anagogy]

I think that animals have souls/consciousness/minds, but they only have temporary individuation for the span of their physically incarnate states. The reason for this being that, in most animals, the only chakras in activation (to any great degree) are generally the first two. Their consciousness is of the struggle for survival and the struggle towards directed purposeful growth (genetic reproduction/evolution). Consciousness does not become individuated in a long term way till the 3rd yellow chakra becomes "seated" in activation rather than potentiation. This eventually does happen to animals after enough experience is gained and the energy is refined over aeons of recycling through the automatic incarnation cycle. After death, the energy of animals merges into a collective consciousness of...um...animalness...for lack of better word. There is a general division between land, air, and sea creatures' consciousness. Though, in the spirit world, distance is only measured in difference in consciousness, if you get my drift.

For reference on this subject, some books I found to be of illumination are: Journey of Souls, Destiny of Souls (Michael Newton), Law of One: I-V.(Carla Rueckert, Don Elkins, Jim McCarty), Between Death and Life (Dalores Cannon), The Holotropic Mind (Stanislav Grof).

[DoAnyOfYouExist]

Thanks for those book recommendations Anagogy...just ordered all of them and the convoluted universe. 140 dollars well spent I am sure.

[autumn]

Originally Posted by DoAnyOfYouExist

I believe that people who "mess up" in this life and never reach a higher ground, living only to survive and procreate end up being reborn as animals. They never reached enlightenment in their life and they fell too far. Their animal desires caused them to reincarnate as an animal. I do believe animals are conscious and have "souls" though.

Oh I totally believe that too! I think the human form of life is for attaining higher consciousness & if it's not used properly the soul will go to a body that the consciousness fits with better. Burning off karma & such until it can progress up the scale again, which I think we all get multiple chances & the soul is always pure, just covered over a little. I don't think animals get new karma, just burn up old stuff, live out desired patterns & such. I think also, that is what I mean by karma, more just patterns, not so much the duality of 'are you good or are you bad', just more like, 'where are you on your path & what do you actually want to be doing?'

I have also met animals that were definatley higher beings, way more advanced then most regular humans, forsure! They would come into that body to assist the healer/psychic people I have met, that had animals like that, as well as just people in general doing good works as companions. & also assisting in bringing down more energy for the person to work with, when perhaps their human physical vehicles could not hold all that energy needed themselves.

[MindReality]

Animals do not even have the higher chakras that humans have therefore they can never be activated to develop permanent individuation of consciousness.

Humans have higher chakras because their soul metaphysical construct is designed for permanent individuation.

No, humans do not reincarnate as animals if they fail to activate higher chakras in life.

They will either go to heaven or hell after they die. Well this last part is according to the word of Yahweh (The Lord).

[DoAnyOfYouExist]

I don't believe that Mind, but I respect your right to.

[Kerney]

The implications of the idea that animals do no have souls is pretty horrific. What it means s that we can treat this world as if it has no value, and is not worthy of our regard or respect. Everything revolves around us. How long do does it take before we decide that the person beside us is not a real person, and we can masacure them, or put them in an extermination camp, or have contests to see who can chop peoples heads off the fastest. We can rape them or beat them, because they are not "people".

How long until we become self centered morons who think the world really does revolve around us. I say, look at all the self centered people who are catered to during their lives and think it is their due. Notice that many of them.....seem to lack regard or empathy for their fellow humans.

However, if you regard all things as with a soul, you are more likely to treat all things with respect as brothers and sisters, worthy and with an equal place, even when you have to kill it to survive, you are living in a sacred manner.

Consider the mentality of Francis of Assisi, who referred to "Brother Sun, Sister Moon" as compared to the Crusaders, and we know who was holy.

Miyatake Osain (Lakota), It means, we are all related. I have no doubt that all my realitives have souls. I can feel the soul of a mountain, or a stream, and they are sacred. Same with plants, animal, and even people.

To quote a book and claim you know the will of God only shows how little you know.

All the Best,

Kerney

[autumn]

Yes! Nice post Kerney! I agree with all that.

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by Kerney

The implications of the idea that animals do no have souls is pretty horrific. What it means s that we can treat this world as if it has no value, and is not worthy of our regard or respect. Everything revolves around us. How long do does it take before we decide that the person beside us is not a real person, and we can masacure them, or put them in an extermination camp, or have contests to see who can chop peoples heads off the fastest. We can rape them or beat them, because they are not "people".

How long until we become self centered morons who think the world really does revolve around us. I say, look at all the self centered people who are catered to during their lives and think it is their due. Notice that many of them.....seem to lack regard or empathy for their fellow humans.

However, if you regard all things as with a soul, you are more likely to treat all things with respect as brothers and sisters, worthy and with an equal place, even when you have to kill it to survive, you are living in a sacred manner.

Consider the mentality of Francis of Assisi, who referred to "Brother Sun, Sister Moon" as compared to the Crusaders, and we know who was holy.

Miyatake Osain (Lakota), It means, we are all related. I have no doubt that all my realitives have souls. I can feel the soul of a mountain, or a stream, and they are sacred. Same with plants, animal, and even people.

To quote a book and claim you know the will of God only shows how little you know.

All the Best,

Kerney

I don't think MindReality was trying to imply that animals do not have souls, but that they do not have individuation of consciousness. But I'm not sure - it would be good if MR could elaborate.

[DoAnyOfYouExist]

Originally Posted by LoveWisdom

"Do animals have souls?"

Who cares? Does it make a difference?

Apparently not you. I do not understand your question "Does it make a difference?" A difference to what, in what context?

[Kerney]

Originally Posted by LoveWisdom

What I meant is does it make a difference in our lives, in our walk with God, enlightenment or whatever? I don't see any reason to examine this question. That's all. It appears a waste of time.

If you cannot see the soul of god in creation, how can you walk with God. If you do not have compassion for all things, how can you become enlightened.

All the Best,

Kerney

[MindReality]

Originally Posted by Lychee

I don't think MindReality was trying to imply that animals do not have souls, but that they do not have individuation of consciousness. But I'm not sure - it would be good if MR could elaborate.

Yes, I have already stated that animals do have souls.

It is just that their souls have temporary individuation only while they are alive in the physical realm. When animals die, their consciousness becomes unindividuated and one with the source energy.

The soul of humans retain idividuation after physical death and exist at a higher realm with self awareness continuing to function.

[Kerney]

Originally Posted by MindReality

Yes, I have already stated that animals do have souls.

It is just that their souls have temporary individuation only while they are alive in the physical realm. When animals die, their consciousness becomes unindividuated and one with the source energy.

The soul of humans retain idividuation after physical death and exist at a higher realm with self awareness continuing to function.

While I disagree (It will be verified one way or another when we die, so no need to argue). I like how you still have a philosophy which argues that things are worth respecting. That's good.

All the Best,

Kerney

[autumn]

Originally Posted by LoveWisdom

Kerney,



Do you feel it is necessary to examine this question "about dogs having a soul" to be a loving compassionate person?

How is this question relate to becoming enlightened, caring for the animals?

Say it turns out that animals have a soul, or say it turns out they don't have a soul....will it make a difference in your feelings for them?

Thanks

I think it relates to enlightenment because as a society we are so uncompassionate & so far from walking with God that we first torture & then horrendously slaughter 2 billion animals a year like it's nothing. Then we eat that energy.

I'm not against meat eating (although I am a vegetarian/vegan) but I just can't see the compassion in how we treat these animals AND then kill them in SUCH an ugly way, like they are nothing. AND doing this as a society certainly can't lead to enlightenment! It's not loving or wise.

I don't know about dogs so intimately, but I have lived with cows that were really truly loved & had lots of interaction with humans & they are the most expressive, loving creatures I could imagine. Each with their own personalities & REALLY fun to sleep with & cuddle with. Think nurturing Mother! With most of them, if you pet them & then stopped, they would come after you & nudge your hand for more...kind of like a cat does. My husband helped some give birth & he also had a few die with their heads in his lap. I met my husband on a Cow Protection farm where he had been for many years & where I was learning to train oxen nearby.

Be Blessed

[msxena]

Hi Steve,
I forgot that I was a member and usually can't blog at work, but appears I can!!! Hello out there....

To prove that animals have souls/spirits (they are the same as far as I am concerned): "Though all creatures are subject to man's cruelty, God loves all His creation and has made plans for all His children and the lesser creatures to enjoy His eternal Kingdom. Romans 8:19(KJV)". If you watch animals, they are so much more compassionate and smarter than most humans...their souls may be even MORE advanced than ours I believe. We humans are selfish, cruel, and lazy (most people). Pets love from the HEART, unconditionally...most people can't even give you 2 mins. of real compassion without talking about themselves, etc. Anyway, that's my view. I have a 12 yr. old rat terrier who has been my best friend - he will go to Heaven. Treat all your fellow creatures (man & beast) with LOVE everyone!!! :-)

[Plato]

what is a soul

[Mato Kinze]

Yes. Animals have "spirit" just as we have it. ...as do stones, trees, water, air...

All things have and are of Spirit. It is Mankind's folly and vanity to believe they are so superior to the rest of God's creation that they are somehow "above" all else (the words of Yahweh as expressed in the book of Genesis aside).

It is Mankind that separates himself from God by these thoughts and beliefs. Animals are closer to god because they haven't separated themselves. Therefore, there is much to be learned from them.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

Do animals have the sense of "I" in them, free will and overall a soul?
Could a cat become enlightened?

Animals are the ones enlightened, it's "Advanced" Societal man that is lost.

Don't believe me?
Why is a dog mans best friend, for example?

[infinitethoughts]

Further, I don't recall ever seeing a tribe of cats, convening at the local Alley, planning, (key word here) fussing, worrying, setting future meetings, declaring "dead"-lines if temper tantrums are not met, etc, etc, etc.......the overthrow of the next tribe of cats across the street, have you?

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by Mato Kinze

(the words of Yahweh as expressed in the book of Genesis aside).

How can Infinity have words?

How can Infinity have a name?

A name implies personality, does it not?

"Yahweh" is the name of Infinity?

Things to think about..........