Does animals have souls?

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

How can Infinity have words?

How can Infinity have a name?

A name implies personality, does it not?

"Yahweh" is the name of Infinity?

Things to think about..........

I was referring back to MindReality's post and was doing so "tongue-in-cheek".

Personally, I prefer The Great Mystery or Nagual.

[bellemeadows]

I believe they reincarnate as well.

John Randolph Price has writings about his dog, Maggie, who is now I believe in her third incarnation with he and his wife. He had dreams that led him to that first litter where Maggie was for sale. She recognized them immediately and came over. The dreams told him where she would be advertised for sale, when the advertisement would be in the paper -- what day, and what her markings would be. When they showed up to see the puppies, she had the markings, but it didn't matter, that pup was Maggie. She came right to them and acted like Maggie, greeted them as Maggie always had -- same personality, same being.

I've had a dream about a horse that I had known -- I'd had her put down for health reasons about a year earlier. She was lying down all folded up in the dream, with really long legs and really distinctive markings. It was such an odd dream, I woke up wondering why she was lying down with such long legs. . . then upon waking when I thought about it, I knew -- she was in the womb.

She was born a few months later with those very markings to a friend of mine as a stud colt; no longer a female.

I think animals have souls in the same way we do; which is to say that their soul emination may be, as in my opinion ours are, not entirely separate and distinct at the deepest level -- more a consistent perspective than a separate being.

As for Christians not believing animals have souls, well Jesus comes back riding a white horse; and in the old testament, God breathed the breath of life into the animals as well as the humans. But the animals did not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, lucky them. I agree that most Christians today do believe animals don't have souls, but it isn't addressed in the Bible. Just isn't there, so it would not be unChristian, IMHO, to believe they do. Just the opposite of popular theology and Christian belief -- which is NOT the same as being dictated or addressed in the Bible.

Of note: In early Christianity, there are stories of the lion who converted to Christianity, and it changed his life. There were miracles, etc. That story is in one of the books that was rejected for the Bible. But it shows that early Christians didn't feel the same about animals as current Christians.

It suits some religous organizations to perpetuate the idea that animals don't have souls; keeps people treating them badly. Keeps the religious organizations in control. Keeps people from thinking outside that little teeny, weeny box. The Shakers believed that one would know a truly spiritual person by how they treated their animals.

Do animals have souls. Well, most people just believe what they believe. Obviously the Hindus think they do, and there are hundreds of millions of Hindus out there. There is really no authority here to rely on, just a lot of theory, opinions and popular theology. No real evidence that can be quoted either way. Although I know I had that dream; and then he was born with the same markings as in my dream. So my beliefs are probably different from most people's beliefs.

I know what I believe. You know what you believe. Opinions, opinions, opinions; everyone has one. How do you know what is true and what is not? Believe what you will, but be sure to be kind and compassionate to the animals. Because you really don't know, do you?

Blessings from Belle,

[bellemeadows]

Only Man and Angel have true volition and freewill.

I have to disagree, based upon my own experience.

If I were to tell my horses they don't have free will, they would laugh at me, in that odd way horses have of laughing. Their will is as free as mine, in their opinion.

And having been around them, frankly, I would have to agree.

Blessings from Belle,

[JoeGoldfarb]

Originally Posted by Mato Kinze

It is Mankind that separates himself from God by these thoughts and beliefs. Animals are closer to god because they haven't separated themselves. Therefore, there is much to be learned from them.

We are the fallen angels. This is our hell. Can you see the blood on my back?


*edit* drama drama!

[m18pak]

Animals don't have individual souls, which is why they do not possess imagination, self-consciousness, free will etc...

Animals have group souls.

[Plato]

The existence of a soul in humans entails all animals having souls.

The only distinction between humans and the other animals is language a.k.a. rationality. A superior intelligence. What I am implying is that our complexity is not an argument for us being superior or the grand possessors of "souls"- whatever you happen to define as a soul.

Once again that seems to be a product of the bizarre christian desire to make humans the center of the universe, chrystallized with the ridiculous concept of a God with human thought processes. Let's be clear- man created God in man's image with that one!

As Belle rightly points out, the Hindu faith holds that all sentient beings have souls. This is a completely rational belief within a subjective world view in which everything is one consciousness.

Within an objective reality it is impossible to prove the existence of a soul- certainly an immortal soul anyway. The mind-body duality seems perfectly reasonable but to call it a soul seems dubious though.


On Free Will-

The best definition I have found of free will is the ability to act against your nature. As rational beings and therefore able to act against our nature, humans are the only beings with free will. This also provides an explanation for a God creating a world with evil. Without the ability to choose between a good and bad result there is no distinction between free will and mere existence.

Belle- are you sure you aren't talking about freedom rather than free will?

[bellemeadows]

The existence of a soul in humans entails all animals having souls.

The only distinction between humans and the other animals is language a.k.a. rationality. A superior intelligence. . . .As Belle rightly points out, the Hindu faith holds that all sentient beings have souls. This is a completely rational belief within a subjective world view in which everything is one consciousness.

Within an objective reality it is impossible to prove the existence of a soul- certainly an immortal soul anyway. The mind-body duality seems perfectly reasonable but to call it a soul seems dubious though.


On Free Will-

The best definition I have found of free will is the ability to act against your nature. As rational beings and therefore able to act against our nature, humans are the only beings with free will. This also provides an explanation for a God creating a world with evil. Without the ability to choose between a good and bad result there is no distinction between free will and mere existence.

Belle- are you sure you aren't talking about freedom rather than free will?

Wow, Plato -- awesome post. Well, just a couple of responses.

The existence of a soul in humans entails all animals having souls.

Beautifully stated -- I agree completely.

In terms of

language a.k.a. rationality. A superior intelligence

Every concept we have of animals being less intelligent, less rational can be proven to be untrue in specific species and instances; animals learn to use tools on their own, use them, and teach other animals to use them, animals have incredible memories, animals can learn our language, and do use it when they learn it, some animals have a language of their own -- none of them have a written language (the evidence is that humans didn't either until quite recently, historically speaking) but they can be taught to read writing and to write back (when the opposible thumb issue is addressed) -- not all animals can do it all, there are different variations.

On Free will, what about birds that pick out their own feathers? Wouldn't that be like what you are describing as the ability to go against their own nature? I'm very willing to not disagree on this. It sounds like you could very well be right. But one thing I've experienced in my lifetime, is that every preconception I've ever had about animals have been shown to be untrue; so I hesitate to make assumptions about their limitations any more. I find that when I look for the evidence that animals are more than what popular culture dictates, I find it. What about the animal that bonds with an animal outside its species, and will give its life to save that animal?. . . . I just don't know. . . . but thank you for asking the Q. Well done!

Really an awesome post -- and much food for thought. Thank you -- and blessings from Belle