What happens AFTER enlightenment?

[DaveTyler]

I know I've had a lot of questions about enlightenment lately and it's probably boring some people. I'm sorry for that.

I just wonder if it's what I'm going through, I've gone from complete panic states, to dissociating states, unstopable laughing attacks(like the first times you smoke marijuana), depression and ************ that can't even be described.
I feel like I have fever, but I don't, sometimes I can laugh about things that's completely wrong morally.
Sometimes I feel like I'm losing my personality, other times I don't.
I feel like I understand too much and too little at the same time.
I can somehow "feel my chakras" if I concentrate on them, I get energy flowing through body sometimes, I feel almost electric.
I've had episodes where I could "see the future" or I always knew what a person was going to do, or say, or what was going to happen before it happened.
Sometimes I feel like fantasies seem true in reality, even though some part of me knows it's just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. (though this could be my OCD).

Is this symptoms of enlightenment, and if so, will it end good?
After it's enlightenment, does the person die? Will he be normal again but more happy? or will he just go cray?

[Adam]

"Before enlightenment; chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment; chop wood, carry water."

In other words, before we become enlightened, we are busy our entire lives taking care of our physical needs, with barely any time to worry about the spiritual... I've seen this all too often, and even in myself, that when a person wants to feel 'enlightened' that they will either seek it within their own mind, or seek it outside of themselves.

The answer is to seek it in both the internal and external worlds.

If we don't take care of our bodies before we seek enlightenment, then pain, hunger, and the flabbiness of an undisciplined body will all work against that enlightenment. If we only work with our bodies, until it is a finely tuned engine, ignoring our minds, then the mush between our ears will work against that enlightenment.

Once enlightenment is found, though, we can delight in chopping wood, which helps us to build our muscles so that we can always be ready to seek enlightenment. We can also delight in carrying water, which nourishes the mind, and helps it to be clear so that we can go back and seek enlightenment again.

As the quote goes, before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. It becomes much less futile the second time around.

[DaveTyler]

but does my symptoms seem like enlightenment or something else?
The problem is that my physical shape has been very messedup after my panic disorder started.
I barely eat, I've lost like 40pounds and is badly underweight.
The worst thing is my TMJD which I managed to cure somehow miracly with visualisation, and now after all this returned, it has returned, just 1000times as bad

So you suggest I stop worrying about enlightenment for a while and take care of my body before returning to it?

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

Sometimes I feel like fantasies seem true in reality, even though some part of me knows it's just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. (though this could be my OCD).

Is this symptoms of enlightenment, and if so, will it end good?
After it's enlightenment, does the person die? Will he be normal again but more happy? or will he just go cray?

1. Are you sure you're not bipolar?

2. Look, people don't die upon becoming enlightened. Osho was enlightened in 1953 and lived for another 37 years, before passing away in 1990. Gautama Buddha lived till he was 80 and died from eating poisonous mushrooms, not because of enlightenment. Eckhart Tolle had some kind of enlightenment experience too, look, he's still very much alive and kicking today.

3. I really don't think you're enlightened. If you were, you should be providing the answers to MY questions, not the other way around. With enlightenment comes automatic knowledge & wisdom, and sorry to say this, you're not exactly exhibiting those qualities right now.

[DaveTyler]

Okey, that make's sense.

Ask me some questions a enlightened person would know and I'll see if I can even come close to give a logical explaination:P

I hope I'm not Bipolar, i think it's just depersonalziation/derealization combined with extreme OCD and panic

[DoAnyOfYouExist]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

Okey, that make's sense.

Ask me some questions a enlightened person would know and I'll see if I can even come close to give a logical explaination:P

I hope I'm not Bipolar, i think it's just depersonalziation/derealization combined with extreme OCD and panic

You would be able to answer all the questions YOU are asking. You are not enlightened. YOU ARE ON THE PATH. Don't know how many times I can say that. I would also suggest if you still smoking marijuana and it is making things worse you need to stop. I smoke weed daily but during the period when I was experiencing these intense peaks at enlightenment I would get panic attacks, it would be TOO much to handle. That was a cue to me that I needed to get my head straight and chill out on the weed for awhile as it was making everything more difficult and harder to understand. I chilled for awhile and feel much better and am more able to handle toking it again. Just relax and take it easy. Your brain needs a rest.

Acting like Godot, did the Buddah really die from mushrooms?! I never knew the Buddah shroomed it, knew shrooms were one of the oldest cheats in the game.

[DaveTyler]

I quit smokeing weed 14months ago, it got better, but got bad again =/
How do you make your brain stop OVER ANALYZE, OVER THINK, and just OVER ACTIVE constantly?

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by DoAnyOfYouExist

Acting like Godot, did the Buddah really die from mushrooms?! I never knew the Buddah shroomed it, knew shrooms were one of the oldest cheats in the game.

Yeah. It is said that mushrooms had something to do with it.

Mettanando - How the Buddha died

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

How do you make your brain stop OVER ANALYZE, OVER THINK, and just OVER ACTIVE constantly?

Ummm .... if that is your problem, then you're definitely not enlightened.

It's too much for me to explain right now. But if an over-active, runaway brain is your problem, try any combination of the following if they are feasible or practical for you:

Firstly, stop the weed, the alcohol, the coffee and any other stimulant.

Secondly, do regular exercise. The kind that will eat up your excess nervous energy. Long-distance running; swimming; cycling is good.

Thirdly, spend some regular time in a quiet, peaceful place. I like mountain resorts and exotic island paradises. If that's not possible, wake up early and go for a long walk / jog in the hours when few people are up & about.

4th, do some active journalling, a few times a week. Just keep writing out all the things that are on your mind. Let everything spill out. At first you will have a lot to say, because your mind is in an overactive state. Keep going. Don't pause to analyse or think too much - just keep going, let it all come out, whether positive or negative. (When your mind is more steady, you can graduate to positive journalling).

5th, just keep busy. At work, or school, or whatever. Stay focused on one thing at a time. If you have many things to do, write them all down and carry that list with you wherever you go. Whenever something new occurs to you, quickly jot it down on your list. Sounds too simple to be effective, but trust me, this is one of the most simple AND effective things you'll ever know. You can start with this: "Go to the library and borrow books about enlightenment." There. Then do it.

The really good way to fix your problem is actually meditation, but I don't think you're really in the frame of mind to start learning it now. If you want to give it a shot, here is a basic meditation exercise from my blog that is good for starters.

You may wish to consider taking a yoga class. You see - the thing about yoga is that you're always going for the next more-challenging asana that will demand all your concentration.

If you keep doing yoga regularly, you'll find that your mind will become more steady, even when you're not doing yoga. Increasingly, it will go only where you want it to go, instead of running loose all over the place as it currently is. In other words, you concentrate better.

Now, I will leave you with one more suggestion. Do this one immediately, right after you finish reading. Trust me.

1. Close your eyes. Sit comfortably, then be still.

2. Prepare to pay attention to your breath - specifically just the way your breath feels, as it passes in and out through your nostrils.

3. Inhale ..... VERY, VERY SLOWLY.

4. Pause for a moment when your lungs are full. This is an important moment. Think to yourself, "I ... am .... calm ....".

5. Exhale ..... VERY, VERY SLOWLY. Make sure your exhalation is longer than your inhalation.

6. When your lungs are as empty as they can be, pause for a moment. This is and important moment. Think to yourself, "... and .... very ... very ... still."

Then go back to Step 3 and repeat for 10 breaths. "I ... am ... calm ... and ... very ... very ... still .... "I ... am ... calm ... and ... very ... very ... still .... I ... am ... calm ... and ... very ... very ... still .... I ... am ... calm ... and ... very ... very ... still ...."

It's a mini self-hypnosis thing. Go on, try it now.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

Ask me some questions a enlightened person would know and I'll see if I can even come close to give a logical explaination:P

1. Who were you in your most recent past life?

2. What lies beyond the inner, deathless void?

3. What is disturbing your mind now?

[DaveTyler]

Thanks man, GREAT GREAT tips you gave me there.
I tried the breathing exercise and it actually helped a bit, but can I use it to identify myself with my EGO, MY BODY?
Cause I'm definately NOT in my body, I feel like I identify myself with reality, and not my individual self.

[DaveTyler]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

1. Who were you in your most recent past life?

I got no clue, an enlightened person would automatically know this, right?

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

2. What lies beyond the inner, deathless void?

After what I've read, nothing?

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

3. What is disturbing your mind now?

Feeling NOT like myself and thinking that reality is me =/

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

After what I've read, nothing?

Noooo .... Beyond the void, lies the bliss. Remember to pick up Eckhart Tolle's "The Power of Now" when you're at the library. There's a description on the 3rd or 4th page.

[DoAnyOfYouExist]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Noooo .... Beyond the void, lies the bliss. Remember to pick up Eckhart Tolle's "The Power of Now" when you're at the library. There's a description on the 3rd or 4th page.

Oh man the bliss. I been there, it is the most amazing feeling to be there...to BE the bliss...not feel the bliss...you become the bliss. I never stay in the bliss for long out of fear I cannot come back, but of course I can, I can do whatever I want.

[DaveTyler]

wooot, what is this bliss, I haven't felt ANY bliss, I have just felt complete Peace inside, no bliss.
I can cry, out of mental desperation, but I can stop at anytime and not be sad at all...


On Steve's blogg on coniousness it says: "Peace - Total transcendence. Hawkins claims this level is reached only by one person in 10 million." is this the peace I've managed to gain?

[DoAnyOfYouExist]

The bliss was at my core. I closed my eyes, saw a fractal and I zoomed into the core of this fractal and the closer I got the more blissed out I became until I WAS the center of this fractal and it was complete bliss that I can never put into words because words are cheap. Lets just say that, that was the best experience of my life and I cannot wait to have it again.

Nope you do not have the peace hawkins talks about... Peace/total transcendence does not include having doubts about things, being afraid of reality etc etc. If you had these things you wouldn't be in the shape you are in.

[DaveTyler]

Okey, so maybe I'm not on my path to enlightenment at all and all I have experienced is confusion from panic and obsessive thoughts?

Do you believe in Steve Pavlina's explaination of Enlightenment though?
That YOUR conciousness is the only one in the world, and reality started the day you were born and noone else exist except for you in the whole wide universe?

[DaveTyler]

This is what a saint says about enlightenment, I found on a website:

You wanted to know my own experience. When I plunge into that Vastness, that Wholeness, that Entirety, that Totality of Existence, that Cosmic Universal Being, that Supreme Being, I once I plunge my self into that ocean of ecstasy and bliss and try to lose my identity, I immediately come out, and come down. It is a blissful state. If I stay there longer, I snap my connections from my body and I leave my body in this world, my body will die and I will merge with the Whole, I will merge with the Existence. But I don't want to merge at this moment A saint can, at will, live and at will die.

What you think of this?
It scares me a little bit, I'm only 18, I don't really feel ready to emerge and die, is there a middle way where you can start to achieve enlightenment and still live a normal life?

Also does enlightened persons have Obsessive thoughts? or have they managed to silence their mind completely?

[DoAnyOfYouExist]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

This is what a saint says about enlightenment, I found on a website:

You wanted to know my own experience. When I plunge into that Vastness, that Wholeness, that Entirety, that Totality of Existence, that Cosmic Universal Being, that Supreme Being, I once I plunge my self into that ocean of ecstasy and bliss and try to lose my identity, I immediately come out, and come down. It is a blissful state. If I stay there longer, I snap my connections from my body and I leave my body in this world, my body will die and I will merge with the Whole, I will merge with the Existence. But I don't want to merge at this moment A saint can, at will, live and at will die.

What you think of this?
It scares me a little bit, I'm only 18, I don't really feel ready to emerge and die, is there a middle way where you can start to achieve enlightenment and still live a normal life?

Also does enlightened persons have Obsessive thoughts? or have they managed to silence their mind completely?

Wow that saints quote is verbatim my experience and my decision.

[mysterygal]

Hi Dave Tyler,

You could have a mood disorder, or it could be panic and anxiety. Either way, you should seek medical advice.

All the best,

mystery

[pictokid]

mysterygal, i would agree wit u 200%

[AndyMartin]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

Okey, so maybe I'm not on my path to enlightenment at all and all I have experienced is confusion from panic and obsessive thoughts?

Do you believe in Steve Pavlina's explaination of Enlightenment though?
That YOUR conciousness is the only one in the world, and reality started the day you were born and noone else exist except for you in the whole wide universe?

Two points here:

That consciousness is one does not mean that your consciousness is the only one in the world. It means your experience is the experience of consciousness -- it is universal in nature -- and your individuation in the way you perceive it is ultimately an illusion. When you experience that vast oneness, it does not tell anything about you. It tells you about the absolute nature of pure consciousness, which is the absolute self of which you are an expression, just like stars are expressions of the absolute form of the universe.

Neurosis comes from the ego. Ego is the relative self that stands in opposition to the absolute self. With ego there is no absolute, so it constructs an interpretation of your circumstances that position it at the center of the relative universe. Ego and the self absolute do not meet. Ever. So growth occurs by developing the non-egoic self, not by dwelling on the creations and impulses of the ego.

The challenge is to put your energy and intention into developing that self absolute -- into developing consciousness. Not developing your consciousness, into developing consciousness. The value of meditation is that it teaches you to distinguish between pure consciousness and ego. Quieting your mind and remaining unattached to all thought forms, you can begin to see what arises from ego and what arises from consciousness and begin to choose between the two in the way you live your life.

Now, the only symptom of enlightenment is the way you live your life. Your thoughts and feelings simply don't have anything to do with it.

However, it is common that, when someone begins to awaken to consciousness, that the ego tries to assert itself. Ego does not want us to develop consciousness; ego likes things as they are. Change scares ego and it will do everything it can to put a stop to it. Freak outs are very effective among modern westerners who judge everything according to their feelings. The challenge is to live your life as though you were enlightened, whether you are or not, whether you feel like it or not, because only then will you be.

[DaveTyler]

Thanks,

So everyone is concious?
Everyone is real? I shouldn't start acting like I'm God and all of you should treat me like it?
Steve Pavlina's theory on subjective reality is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥?
I think it's ridiculous how he want everyone to believe in it when he doesn't himself, if he did, he wouldnt bother writing articles on in for others who doesn't exist, right?
I mean I want to KNOW, not believe, that everyone is real, not that my girl friend is me, like she got no personality and no individual soul.

I've always believed. I like to pray to some higher power, not pray to my self like I'm god.
WE ARE ALL GOD, I'm just a LITTTLE part of it.

I've always believed this concept:
Conciousness(god, source) - > individual conciousness(unique soul, that we all got) -> personality - > ego

Am I wrong?

[SecretSeven]

Right. However, no one has proven that we all come from one consciousness. My question is this: If consciousness is the container of the universe, then what about the fact that the world and universe existed billions of years before humans ever entered the picture? No life existed in the universe for a long time, atleast that not that we can prove.

[AndyMartin]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

Right. However, no one has proven that we all come from one consciousness. My question is this: If consciousness is the container of the universe, then what about the fact that the world and universe existed billions of years before humans ever entered the picture? No life existed in the universe for a long time, atleast that not that we can prove.

Two thoughts: First, define "one consciousness." Is it one in number or one in nature? And what's the difference?

Second, I think that any explanation of consciousness that ignores the 15 billion years of evolution that we now know about is insufficient for our present day. Anybody who truly believes in the ongoing development of consciousness needs to be honest enough to acknowledge that 2,000 year old stories that predate all rational learning cannot possibly be adequate for our current level of development.

So we have to consider the possibility that defies all of the mythic traditions that the universe gave rise to consciousness and in fact, that the development of consciousness is the same as the evolution of the universe rather than one being the byproduct of another.

We have to consider the real possibility that once there was nothing. Not Nothing+God. Nothing. Not a speck of dust, a ray of life. Nothing. And from that nothing arose an impulse to become. And that impulse that triggered the big bang and guided evolution for fifteen billion years before we appeared on the scene is the same spiritual impulse that we are now discussing.

We have to consider the possibility the the development of consciousness and humanity is in our hands because our consciousness represents the universe becoming aware of the evolutionary process. And just like our own personal development, when we become aware of a process, we have to take responsibility for it -- now it is up to us to take responsibility for the ongoing development of consciousness. The evolutionary directive is now self-aware.

From that perspective, questions of the meaning of individuation fade away into the backdrop of an infinitely expanding and evolving universe. The question becomes: what does taking responsibility for the evolution of consciousness mean in terms of how the individuated being lives in the universe? From that perspective, meaning is not derived from what we are, but from what we do to further the development of consciousness, whether it is one in nature or one in number.

[SecretSeven]

I didn't believe in God until about year ago. I accepted the evolution standpoint and believed consciousness arose from matter. 'After life' in my mind was just a delusion people believed to make themselves feel better. I suscribed to this belief, because I could not see how consciousness could live on after the death of our brains. Once I learned about the "unified or one consciousness belief," I felt a renewed sense of faith. As you all know very well, this belief states that matter and the world came from consciousness. Finally, I felt some hope that maybe there is more than what we are taught in history books. This idea seems much more practical. I still believe in evolution, I think it is impossible to deny the proof that scientists and archeologists have found.

I'm still questioning my belief in God, but am feeling more and more confident that someone exists "up there." Another reason I've had trouble believing in God and afterlife is because what happens to animals? Regardless of what people say, animals are conscious. And we humans are no more than highly evolved animals (whether we like to admit it or not.) So, if we went to the after life, then it would make sense that animals would too. And if animals went to afterlife than it would make sense that bugs went to the afterlife as aswell. A lot of people say that bugs are too small, too insignifcant. But isn't it true that we are no more than "bugs" in the grandscheme of things? I think that a belief in afterlife, would require us to have sense of superiority. What makes us think we are special enough to live on after death? Why are we any more special than animals?

[Groundless]

"up there."

God is there but sideways from you.