So, today someone told me I'm going to hell.

[Indiana]

Originally Posted by bullard123

To answer your question seeds I think that God is pretty fair when it comes to judging. I dont believe he would send someone to hell who has never heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ

Seems a bit unfair that they would get a get-out-of-hell free pass just because they got born into the right circumstances, whereas simply because I've heard the gospel and I don't find it convincing, then I'm doomed to eternal torture.

Also, based on this principle, isn't it best not to evangelise nations that have never heard the gospel? They get to go straight to heaven if they've never heard it.

[bullard123]

Originally Posted by Mato Kinze

Quoting scripture to prove a point to someone who is not a Christian is very perplexing to me.

A lot of people who read my posts are ex-christians or do have some form of faith. I don't judge anyone. The word of God is able to enlighten any sinner just like it did to me. I wasn't saved all of my life you know. And God's word is very effective in bringing those who don't know Jesus to come to Him. And once people know the truth it makes them free. Im sharing scripture that a lot of people have never read concerning the afterlife from the christian perspective.

[bullard123]

Originally Posted by Indiana

Seems a bit unfair that they would get a get-out-of-hell free pass just because they got born into the right circumstances, whereas simply because I've heard the gospel and I don't find it convincing, then I'm doomed to eternal torture.

Also, based on this principle, isn't it best not to evangelise nations that have never heard the gospel? They get to go straight to heaven if they've never heard it.

Well I dunno, I think that's being fair. If my daughter burned down the house by accident I wouldn't punish her for that. But if I told my daughter not to play with matches/fire and she did it anyway and then burned my house down then yes she would have to take responsibility. I just don't think its right to punish someone who didn't know something out of sincere ignorance

[bullard123]

Originally Posted by moonrambler

Bullard -- Considering this part of the chapter comes directly after two metaphorical stories, why do you decide this is not another metaphorical story, but something to be taken literally?

Moonrambler i see your point here. Yes in the prior two stories Jesus is speaking in parables. He is speaking about his return in the parable of the 10 virgins and being fruitful in the parable of the unprofitable servant. In both of these parables Jesus is trying to make is to be ready for his return. His coming is a physical event that will happen and is something that Christians anticipate.. So he's using story form here to warn us about his return. And these words are in red print which signifies that they are of high importance because they are coming directly from Jesus

[Darky]

you got it wrong as it seems..

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by bullard123

Well I dunno, I think that's being fair. If my daughter burned down the house by accident I wouldn't punish her for that. But if I told my daughter not to play with matches/fire and she did it anyway and then burned my house down then yes she would have to take responsibility. I just don't think its right to punish someone who didn't know something out of sincere ignorance

I suppose I just can't think of anything a Human Being could do that would justify an eternal ANYTHING.

That concept also goes against my personal experiences and my relationship with The Creator.

But, if those words and that concept serves you, then you are welcome to it.

[BillyTheAdult]

Originally Posted by bullard123

Well I dunno, I think that's being fair. If my daughter burned down the house by accident I wouldn't punish her for that. But if I told my daughter not to play with matches/fire and she did it anyway and then burned my house down then yes she would have to take responsibility. I just don't think its right to punish someone who didn't know something out of sincere ignorance

I don't agree with Darky saying all those who search for god on the outside will never find him (ever heard of surrender to god's will darky? I would consider doing it completely and completely genuinely to be a pathway to realizing god consciousness, or in layman's terms, enlightenment.) However the above highlighted quote almost seems like an admission, although inadvertent, that the god you speak of is based on your imagination. How does what you think is fair have any bearing on anything actual about the way that things actually work with god? You are going on (at least in this instance) what feels right (in other words good) to you, pure emotionality, and nothing to do with anything actual or concrete, even in the sense that it relates to talking about an intangible such as god.

[inri]

Originally Posted by BillyTheAdult

I don't agree with Darky saying all those who search for god on the outside will never find him (ever heard of surrender to god's will darky? I would consider doing it completely and completely genuinely to be a pathway to realizing god consciousness, or in layman's terms, enlightenment.) However the above highlighted quote almost seems like an admission, although inadvertent, that the god you speak of is based on your imagination. How does what you think is fair have any bearing on anything actual about the way that things actually work with god? You are going on (at least in this instance) what feels right (in other words good) to you, pure emotionality, and nothing to do with anything actual or concrete, even in the sense that it relates to talking about an intangible such as god.

Great post! Indeed, when humans try to define their God through their own (often very un-evolved/unenlightened) perspective regarding 'normal' emotional responses to perceived wrongdoings, we get a God who possesses emotional traits that are less evolved than many of the humans he supposedly created.

[theuprising]

These threads hurt my head... >.>

This is the "Spirituality, Consciousness, & Awareness" forum, take religion to OT discussions :P

[seeds]

Originally Posted by bullard123

To answer your question seeds I think that God is pretty fair when it comes to judging. I dont believe he would send someone to hell who has never heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ

Now that is a very reasonable and logical answer. Thank you!

So, in light of your statement:

..."I dont believe he would send someone to hell who has never heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ"...

...How do you think God deals with unsaved humans in the afterlife? I am talking about humans who had never heard anything about Jesus while they were alive on earth.

Again, please be honest and speak from your heart (don't use scripture, just your honest opinion of how you think he might handle the situation).

(By the way, is that your daughter with you in your avatar picture?)


seeds

[secrets0stolen]

Originally Posted by Mato Kinze

Quoting scripture to prove a point to someone who is not a Christian is very perplexing to me.

Lol, yes. When I went to what was essentially Jesus Camp aimed at older kids (middle school), the focus was on converting others. And it was always to point to scripture. Even then, when I was totally buying into Christianity, that made me go, 'What the heck? How's that gonna work?"

[inri]

Originally Posted by secrets0stolen

Lol, yes. When I went to what was essentially Jesus Camp aimed at older kids (middle school), the focus was on converting others. And it was always to point to scripture. Even then, when I was totally buying into Christianity, that made me go, 'What the heck? How's that gonna work?"

yes, it's a funny thing isn't it, that when something REALLY resonates with our own truth, we often have a difficult time realizing that it just might not hit others the same way.

I recall when I first stumbled upon the Abraham teachings. I truly felt as though there was not a human on earth who could listen to an Abraham recording and not see and feel the 'truth' of it.

lol...I was genuinely shocked when I sat my parents down to listen to one, and they just kind of sat there in stunned silence. My dad who has a gifted IQ, actually shook his head saying, "What the hell is she talking about..I don't even understand it."

Then I passed some recordings on to close friends of mine. One could not get over the 'fakeness' of the channeling...the other understood the teachings very well but just didn't agree with them....they contradicted her own experience of reality.

It was an important and powerful lesson in individual truth...I had always been quite cognizant of the fact that each of us has a personal truth, however, Never before had 'I' encountered any information that had so resonated...They were saying exactly what I knew to be true about reality and doing it in such a concise and perfect way.... I had wrongly made the assumption that it would have the same impact upon any one who would take the time to listen.

We really all are so very different in terms of what will resonate and it seems to me this uniqueness of vantage point, is by design.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by inri

We really all are so very different in terms of what will resonate and it seems to me this uniqueness of vantage point, is by design.

Whoa now. That's dangerously close to agreeing with ecological diversity as a mechanism for natural selection.

[bullard123]

[QUOTE=seeds;858976]Now that is a very reasonable and logical answer. Thank you!

So, in light of your statement:

..."I dont believe he would send someone to hell who has never heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ"...

...How do you think God deals with unsaved humans in the afterlife? I am talking about humans who had never heard anything about Jesus while they were alive on earth.

Again, please be honest and speak from your heart (don't use scripture, just your honest opinion of how you think he might handle the situation).

(By the way, is that your daughter with you in your avatar picture?)


seeds[/QUOT

Yes that is my daughter, she is growing up all too fast lol I think those unsaved people you speak about here will make heaven. They fall in the same category as kids 12 years and younger. In Jewish tradition they teach that the age of accountability is 12 years of age. So that means they believe children that age are mature enough to make a decision like accepting Jesus or not (or at least believing in something). I think there is a little flexibility with that age though because some kids mature later than 12 years old.

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by bullard123

Yes that is my daughter, she is growing up all too fast lol I think those unsaved people you speak about here will make heaven. They fall in the same category as kids 12 years and younger. In Jewish tradition they teach that the age of accountability is 12 years of age. So that means they believe children that age are mature enough to make a decision like accepting Jesus or not (or at least believing in something). I think there is a little flexibility with that age though because some kids mature later than 12 years old.

You are a blessed man, Bullard. Scripture or not, Jesus or not, God walks in your Heart. I honor you for this.

How God's Truth speaks through you is still a mystery to me, but I am sure you will touch who you need to touch.

[seeds]

Originally Posted by bullard123

Yes that is my daughter, she is growing up all too fast lol

I think those unsaved people you speak about here will make heaven. They fall in the same category as kids 12 years and younger. In Jewish tradition they teach that the age of accountability is 12 years of age. So that means they believe children that age are mature enough to make a decision like accepting Jesus or not (or at least believing in something). I think there is a little flexibility with that age though because some kids mature later than 12 years old.

bullard123,

I can feel the sincerity in your words, and I can sense that you truly believe the things you say about Jesus, hell, and the afterlife.

However, I personally believe that the message God tried to convey to us 2,000 years ago (through Jesus) was meant to raise our consciousness, and to unify us in a spirit of oneness and goodwill.

It was meant to pull humans up and out of the low level of consciousness that had them stuck in archaic beliefs of the need for ritualistic blood sacrifices to appease God, and to introduce the simple truth that we should conduct ourselves in a spirit of love, forgiveness, and mutual concern for each other.

Jesus' message was "medicinal" in nature and meant to heal a very sick level of human consciousness that existed at a time when hanging people on crosses in the town square or stoning them to death for minor offences, etc., etc., was just normal everyday affairs.

It was meant to raise humans onto a higher plateau of spiritual understanding and give them a "glimpse" of God's true and loving nature, taking them one-step closer to the "light" without completely opening the "veil" that separates earth reality from "true reality."

The point I am getting at is that over the years, the "medicine" that was meant to heal us has now been transformed by its "subsequent handlers" into a false doctrine that states if you don't take the medicine and accept its healing properties, then the "Physician" who prescribed the medicine is going to infect you with a sickness a trillion times worse than the affliction he was attempting to heal you from.

In other words, God will remove you from the hell on earth that he was trying to help you escape, and place you in an even greater hell that he created for you because you were too dumb to realize he was trying to save you from the earthly hell.

And that, my dear bullard123, is insane.

Therefore, unless you want to keep implying, right here in a public forum, that you think God is insane , then I suggest that you stop insisting that he sends humans to a place called hell.

I am not trying to steal your hell-fire "thunder" that you use to scare people into loving Jesus (because I know you do it from a sincere heart).

However, in truth, thunder is nothing more than hot and cold air coming together and making loud noises that frightens those who do not understand what it really is.

We should love Jesus as our human brother who loved God so much that he was "willing" to give his life (in a painful and dramatic fashion) in service to God who, in turn, (I believe) was attempting to show all of his children how we should conduct ourselves on earth – again, with love, forgiveness, and mutual concern for each other (the essence of Jesus' message).

(It's 2,000 years later and we still can't seem to get that right )


seeds

[inri]

Originally Posted by seeds

bullard123,

I can feel the sincerity in your words, and I can sense that you truly believe the things you say about Jesus, hell, and the afterlife.

However, I personally believe that the message God tried to convey to us 2000 years ago (through Jesus) was meant to raise our consciousness, and to unify us in a spirit of oneness and goodwill.

It was meant to pull humans up and out of the low level of consciousness that had them stuck in archaic beliefs of the need for ritualistic blood sacrifices to appease God, and to introduce the simple truth that we should conduct ourselves in a spirit of love, forgiveness, and mutual concern for each other.

Jesus' message was "medicinal" in nature and meant to heal a very sick level of human consciousness that existed at a time when hanging people on crosses in the town square or stoning them to death for minor offences, etc., etc., was just normal everyday affairs.

It was meant to raise humans onto a higher plateau of spiritual understanding and give them a "glimpse" of God's true and loving nature, taking them one-step closer to the "light" without completely opening the "veil" that separates earth reality from "true reality."

The point I am getting at is that over the years, the "medicine" that was meant to heal us has now been transformed by its "subsequent handlers" into a false doctrine that states if you don't take the medicine and accept its healing properties, then the "Physician" who prescribed the medicine is going infect you with a sickness a trillion times worse than the affliction he was attempting to heal you from.

In other words, God will remove you from the hell on earth that he was trying to help you escape, and place you in an even greater hell that he created for you because you were too dumb to realize he was trying to save you from the earthly hell.

And that, my dear bullard123, is insane.

Therefore, unless you want to keep implying, right here in a public forum, that you think God is insane , then I suggest that you stop insisting that he sends humans to a place called hell.

I am not trying to steal your hell-fire "thunder" that you use to scare people into loving Jesus (because I know you do it from a sincere heart).

However, in truth, thunder is nothing more than hot and cold air coming together and making loud noises that frightens those who do not understand what it really is.

We should love Jesus as our human brother who loved God so much that he was "willing" to give his life (in a painful and dramatic fashion) in service to God who, in turn, (I believe) was attempting to show all of his children how we should conduct ourselves on earth – again, with love, forgiveness, and mutual concern for each other (the essence of Jesus' message).

(It's 2000 years later and we still can't seem to get that right )


seeds

Amen.

That was amazing! Thanks so much for that Seeds!!

[Steph4n1e]

Have any of you ever played the game telephone?

Where you sit in a circle with a bunch of people and one person whispers a sentence in one persons ear, then that person whispers in the next ones ear, until it goes all the way around. Then the last person says the sentence out loud.

It is never the same because everyone heard and inturpreted the original sentence differently. By the end, pink elephants eat shoes, ends up becoming pink elements enter shackles, or something equally stupid and ridiculous. Everyone laughs and has a good time, but nobody will admit, changing or hearing the sentence wrong.

The bible is like this, one, in this case more, wrote it and it got passed around the circle of life. Guess what happened we all heard, and read something completely different. The only thing different is, we aren't laughing and having a good time.

[brendannz]

You should say "you're already in hell"

[bullard123]

Originally Posted by Mato Kinze

You are a blessed man, Bullard. Scripture or not, Jesus or not, God walks in your Heart. I honor you for this.

How God's Truth speaks through you is still a mystery to me, but I am sure you will touch who you need to touch.

Thank You Mato Kinze

[bullard123]

Originally Posted by seeds

bullard123,


In other words, God will remove you from the hell on earth that he was trying to help you escape, and place you in an even greater hell that he created for you because you were too dumb to realize he was trying to save you from the earthly hell.

And that, my dear bullard123, is insane.

Therefore, unless you want to keep implying, right here in a public forum, that you think God is insane , then I suggest that you stop insisting that he sends humans to a place called hell.

I am not trying to steal your hell-fire "thunder" that you use to scare people into loving Jesus (because I know you do it from a sincere heart).

However, in truth, thunder is nothing more than hot and cold air coming together and making loud noises that frightens those who do not understand what it really is.

We should love Jesus as our human brother who loved God so much that he was "willing" to give his life (in a painful and dramatic fashion) in service to God who, in turn, (I believe) was attempting to show all of his children how we should conduct ourselves on earth – again, with love, forgiveness, and mutual concern for each other (the essence of Jesus' message).

(It's 2000 years later and we still can't seem to get that right )


seeds

So do you believe that Jesus died to save mankind?

[joelr]

Originally Posted by bullard123

Ok so for you guys who dont beleive in hell, here is a pretty direct scripture that not only talks about hell but also about it being for eternity



41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Two verses? Ok so for you guys who don't believe in hell here is direct scripture that talks of NO hell for sinners.

Obadiah 16
They shall be as though they had not been.

Proverbs 10:25
As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more.

Romans 6:21
The end of those things is death.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life.


But seriously, how can you attempt to prove the existence of hell to people who do not believe in Christianity by quoting scripture????

If one doesn't believe in Xianity then it doesn't matter what scripture says!!

I can prove that Mormonism is totally true, I mean, it SAYS it's true right in the Mormon bible! It actually says that!!
Who knew?!

Have you considered that people who are non-Christian or non- literal Christians do not care what ridiculous demonology is referenced in some ancient Roman book?

You don't even care about much of the text in that book. I'm sure I could find dozens of verses that you choose to ignore in the new testament alone. Why do you get to pick and choose what you follow and then insist others take the passages you decide are literal as gospel?

[seeds]

Originally Posted by bullard123

So do you believe that Jesus died to save mankind?

Save mankind from what?


seeds

[seeds]

Originally Posted by inri

Amen.

That was amazing! Thanks so much for that Seeds!!

Thank you inri.

I am trying to learn from you and Orca, how to be nicer in my posts.


seeds