is there a soul/spirit ?

[Sammino]

is there a soul/spirit ?
or its all just in our heads?

lets say someone very religious and spiritual could get a hit on their head and loses sanity/ get a brain disorder. then he would act all crazy and weird and all their wisdom and common sense will completely lost.

I started to think that its all in our heads folks
that we dont have "souls" and when we die its all gone and nothing will happen.

I started to think that people made that idea of; good people go to heaven, bad people go to hell, to serve as social disciplines and peaceful living. this idea was around since ancient civilizations. the judgment day in ancient Egypt where they have been told that a divine crocodile will eat the bad ones up while the good folks will meet the pharaohs or something.
same idea was in ancient Greece, then Christianity and Islam took hold of it until modern day.

im born in a christian family and im baptized.

I just do not have complete faith because i want to understand more and i want to make sure that a soul truly exists and its not just the reasoning that happens in the brain and the physical emotions/reactions that follows.

[nube]

hmmm, I cannot give you an answer just some thoughts. I have discussed this a lot lately.

Closest to my belief is that there is some core; energy; light; love, something underneath the thoughts - feelings etc, and we share this with all beings. If you manage to quiet your mind for a little while you might get a glimpse of it. It is blissful and very peaceful.

At the same time many things dont make sense to me, like feeling like someone you meet for the first time is very familiar, feeling like you know a certain place you have not been to before, and feeling very drawn to different things in general. Also, astral projection is interesting, seeing your body from the outside. Some people I know have reached this "obejctivity" in yoga etc. I opened myself up to reincarnation last year, but I still can't get my head around it, which is maybe not even the point. I feel the connection to all people more and more, like there is no "other people" we are all the same. But I guess we have some kind of individual "souls" to, because it is practical I guess.
It does not really matter to me, whether it is true or not, but what I do know is the peaceful state you can reach whenever you want if you manage to stop your thoughts and just learn to be, then you will feel the connection too.

[Mato Kinze]

I went through a similar process of questioning when I was younger.

I'll share with you the process I went through and the conclusion I reached. I'm not saying it is correct or incorrect. It just happens to be the very simplistic approach I took to set a foundation for my future beliefs.

For me, it started with the theory that neither matter nor energy are ever created or destroyed; they simply change their state.

That got me to thinking that if neither matter NOR energy were destroyed, and we, as physical beings, were both matter AND energy, then the physical stuff of which we were made was never "gone." We just simply became "something else."

I then applied that concept to what I thought of as "me", that is some abstract concept of "consciousness". It seemed to me that if matter and energy were "infinite" (in the sense that they continued in some form or other perpetually) then "consciousness" or "self" should likely follow the same "law." That consciousness would continue - albeit in a different and probably unrecognizable state - after the death of the body.

That led me to the thought that perhaps this "something that continues" is what people call the "soul" or the "spirit".

Since I allowed myself to not have to have a definition of what that continuance something was, I didn't require detailed "scientific analysis" of what it may be. I simply allowed that there was most likely "something" and that we were - at this point - unable to fully qualify, quantify or in any other way "measure" what that something was.

That's not to say that we won't be able to develop the technology or understanding to do so in the future, but for now, I simply allowed myself to accept that there was "something".

Now, the disclaimer: My initial reasoning was based on a simplistic and ultimately wrong understanding of physics. Based on new evidence, it appears that matter "may" actually be "destroyed" within black holes. Therefore, the foundation of my theory goes right out the window.

The disclaimer to my disclaimer: Regardless of the reasons for allowing myself to believe in the possible existance of a "soul", the simple fact of the matter is that after having allowed myself that belief, I have since had MANY more experiences that support my original hypothesis and have helped me to better define and refine it.

It's not science. It falls prey to just about every bias out there. But the simple fact is that I have "faith" that there is something about who we are that has NOTHING to do with this world; something that continues to exist, to learn, to grow, to experience after our heart stops pumping blood, after our lungs stop processing air and even after the very last of our synapses fire off.

I don't really know what that is. I can't prove it in a way that would be satisfactory to someone who doesn't want to believe. But I DO believe and that's enough for me.

I'm sure you'll find your own answer at some point. Life is all about the pursuit of these questions after all. Not the answers we arrive at.

[RevDella]

Mato Kinze is correct - scientists have proven that nothing in the universe is created or destroyed, it just changes form. Scientists have also proven that there is a thinker behind the thought. Therefore, we are more than our brains and bodies.

I believe that we are all as aspects of the Divine, each having a human experience. We are ALL spirits. I also believe that life is eternal. When we die, we don't just cease to exist. I don't know what that next realm is like, but we do take our consciousness with us. Therefore, whatever levle of spiritual awareness (or lack of it), we have achieved, it moves with us to the next level of existence.

[Sammino]

hey guys, I read your posts and i wanna thank you for your time and your contribution

one thing though, about that consciousness, isn't it all inside the brain? its all memory and self concepts and beliefs that might be all wrong anyway, programmed through social conditioning and stuff, how come what we know about life and ourselves will keep its hold anywhere else?

if we have a spirit of some kind, im thinking its free of any consciousness. its probably just energy flow. if it exists anyway

like when a human dies on a young age. their soul be so immature and would know nothing about heaven and wisdom and self consciousness.

[bullard123]

Man is a " Tripart being". We and made up of body, soul, and spirit. Your spirit is the part of you that is made in the image and likeness of God. Whatever God create's cannot die. Death only means 'seperation"..You are dead when your spirit seperates from your body but your spirit lives on forever and cannot be destroyed. That's why heaven and hell are both eternal places

[bullard123]

Originally Posted by RevDella

Mato Kinze is correct - scientists have proven that nothing in the universe is created or destroyed, it just changes form. Scientists have also proven that there is a thinker behind the thought. Therefore, we are more than our brains and bodies.

I believe that we are all as aspects of the Divine, each having a human experience. We are ALL spirits. I also believe that life is eternal. When we die, we don't just cease to exist. I don't know what that next realm is like, but we do take our consciousness with us. Therefore, whatever levle of spiritual awareness (or lack of it), we have achieved, it moves with us to the next level of existence.

Nice to Meet you Della...My name is Charles. I'm a liscened Minister/Assistant Pastor as well. God Bless you. And your answer is exactly right! People who have departed from this world remember everything from their past life....

[zeitgeist]

Personally, I wouldn't sign up for religions that include and exclude, because this is a very human think to do. In my experience there is a point when you suddenly observe that you are on a path to somewhere. It is hard to define, but you cannot help realizing that it is there. You will still question your sanity a lot, but at one point it just becomes fun to explore what is real and what is fiction. Personally, I think a scientist can be on a spiritual path as long as he/she is not on a mission to prove this force to the rest of the world. This force is very personal and doesn't like to be broadcasted.

Hope this helps,

Zeitgeist

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by bullard123

Man is a " Tripart being". We and made up of body, soul, and spirit.

Some would say "four-part being." I would add a fourth: Heart.

I would also combine Soul and Spirit as the same thing (or so closely related as to be inseparable) and add "Mind".

Mind is that part of you which you use to gather, sort and catalog information. It is that part of you which makes meaning out of chaos.

Body is, welll... body. Fairly self-evident I would think?

Heart is that which is our internal compass; the "receiver" for the Messages of The Creator.

Spirit is that part of us which is also a part of all other things; the thread of connection, the "life" that is within and without at the same time.

For a person to be healthy, all four things must be equally balanced. One must not care for one aspect more or less than the others - in my humble opinoin, of course.

[Sammino]

hmmmmmm...

[Melchior]

I've been exposed to this idea of a soul/spirit for a while now, and so far, nothing really has conclusively led me to believe of it, some 'versions' anyway. Sure, there are some things that I've read, or have had other people share with me that may be indicative of a more eternal component existing temporarily with a body (composed of regular everyday matter). But none of it really gave me an explanation further into what exactly might be the case, beyond that of a generic soul/spirit labeling. Not even the stuff on reincarnation. Digging deeper into the 'how' as opposed to the 'what' (which is quite remarkable by the way), the term soul/spirit kinda just crops up assuming it's the final explanation, assuming I know what a soul/spirit is to begin with.

I have come across the work of William Tiller as well, which provides a somewhat integrated framework to work on that involves what could be called the soul at our core 'layer'. I'm not too well read on the stuff that he is studying, but at a glance, it seems consistent, but also leads in to more questions that are still left to be answered. Maybe when a breakthrough hits then.

In any case, what little 'evidence' I've come across has been rather weak evidence, if it is even valid, of the existence of a soul/spirit, whatever that may be. If I were, right now to be asked if there were some eternal expression/container of self/personality that may grow as our bodies do, only over multiple lifetimes, I'd have to say that either the evidence I've seen is weak. On the other hand, if what I've read on reincarnation and similar things is factual, I certainly think that there may very well be some lesser known information medium. Maybe ask around for what other forum members know of the Akashic records. Something of note though is that what I've described here about this particular 'version' of a soul/spirit is different than that of those describing a soul as the entire fully functioning mind, or a soul as something 'indestructible' and 'indivisible'. At that point, I must ask if what is there is actually a soul/spirit on the terms I set out to find, or if it would be better to call it something else, maybe less vague.

[Carlos Portillo]

The dilemma of the understanding and the construction of ideas generated by the finite mind is a dead end.
It is impossible to understand our time-less existent from the perspective of a finite view, to understand we must learn to quiet the mind and enter into the silence.
I understand that our existent is a space time event beginning, middle and end and this will lead into a new event in the eternal dance of life.
I am that, that is that and that's all there is.

Peace and Love.

Confuse Carlos

[jeena]

I don't think there is a soul which continues to exist after we died. I think if we die it will be exactly like before we were born, nothing more nothing less. I have not seen any evidence which would point in any different direction.

That said I have to add that I find it an extreme privilege that I was chosen to wake up for (about) 80 years as a bonus as a human who in this age who is able to reason about himself and the universe.

Everything is so extremely exciting about the world that I don't feel I have to invent any Gods or eternal souls to feel satisfied, I just open a science book about what ever field I feel to read about, biology, astrology, physics, everything is so magnificent mysterious and beautiful.

I don't understand why anyone would waste their time with stuff like Gods, hell or angels, there is not a shred of evidence which would even make someone curious to investigate.

[taylor]

Plenty of empirical evidence, just not external material evidence, but then there wouldn't be would there? Read about OBE, NDE, astral projection if you're curious.

[thelightwithin]

one thing though, about that consciousness, isn't it all inside the brain?

That is the question isn't it?

[ChrisGinsburg]

I don't actually have a problem acknowledging that all sorts of wacky stuff is possible. I do however think that people use the word 'soul' like they use the word God. Without perhaps having a clue what they are actually referring to and if it exists when they stop imagining about it.

[Keiju]

Originally Posted by taylor

plenty of empirical evidence, just not external material evidence, but then there wouldn't be would there? Read about obe, nde, astral projection if you're curious.

THIS

seeing is believing


If you have not experienced any of the above, then I imagine it would be tough to acknowledge a soul, the part of us that continues after death.

If you have not put in serious effort to experience any of the above, then I would stay very quite on the subject matter of whether you think a soul exist's or not.

If you can not experience any of the above, even with serious effort, then you can logically deduce the existence of a soul, through implications of your existence

These implcations include:

• Our existence is too significant to end after this one lifetime.

• The kind of things we learn whilst existing is suitable for things we are supposed to learn for contuining life after death

• Life is far too short with too many questions to really accomplish much of anything, it only makes sense that we experience much longer periods of time, an infinite amount

• Given the significance of our existence, it only makes sense that there is a much bigger plan for us, that God, the one who started it all, cares about us, and we're worth too much to simply end here.

• God is aware of our system of reasoning, having been the one to allow it to exist at all in the first place, and given its accurate nature, it only makes sense that it is a lower form of the reasoning process that God would go through.
  Thus we think like God but just much much worse

After understanding some implications, then you would also understand that your confusion is also intended, and very much expected. Given that its expected then the only deduction one could make is we merely do our best with the options that are available to us.
Everything within existence is very much intended, more so than you could imgine.

[Sekret Weapon]

I do detective work to definitively answer all our nagging inquiries.., even such questions as "is there a soul/spirit?"


1) OBLIDERATE the words "soul" and "spirit" form you vocab.
2) Insert the word ESSENCE in place of soul/spirit.
3) Now you have a word which you can contemplate your better half.
4) PM me if you would like to hear the rest, my guess is that I will probably say something about entheogens.

If you want to see your Essence, you just PM me and I will tell you how to do this with 100% success rate. I am selling nothing. I am offering you an insight into the core of your very being.

What year is it?
It is 2011
The claims I make are true and now entirely within our reach.

If your path does not go the distance.., change paths!

[DarkTears]

A thought just came to me..............that our soul, when we die, it is released and then recycled with other souls, and then they make a new soul, while the remaining return and collect with other souls, to create new ones..........

yes it sounds confusing........

[Madhavi dd]

"Know that which pervades the entire body is indestructible. NO one is able to destroy the imperishable soul." Chapter 2, Text 17

"For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." Text 20

"As a person puts on new garments, giving up old ones, similarly, the soul accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones." Text 22

Just a few verses from the second chapter of the Bhagavad Gita As It Is translated from the sanskrit by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami (McMillan 1972). Answers all these queries (and a whole lot more!) in very concise, easily understood, logical fashion. We can't know everything by mere speculation; we are very teeny living entities with similarly teeny, limited capacities. We have to get knowledge from authorities and ultimately from the Person Who put all this (creation) into motion. Just like you would consult the "User's Manual" for some machine or electronic device to understand how it is constructed, what it needs for maintenance, what it's proper uses are, etc., the Creator has provided authoritative handbooks to understand His creation, what it's for, why we're here, where we go from here, etc. It's just that most "scriptures" have been meddled with by self-interested parties, added to, deleted from and so they are not as authoritative as they were originally. This edition of Bhagavad Gita is authoritative, the teachings therein being carefully preserved through the ages. I guarantee that anyone who gives it a read will come away with a VAST amount of knowledge they never thought was available! It's a mind-blower! Make sure you get the 1972 edition! Here's a link to purchase, if you're interested: Bhagavad gita

[Madhavi dd]

Originally Posted by Mato Kinze

Some would say "four-part being." I would add a fourth: Heart.

I would also combine Soul and Spirit as the same thing (or so closely related as to be inseparable) and add "Mind".

Mind is that part of you which you use to gather, sort and catalog information. It is that part of you which makes meaning out of chaos.

Body is, welll... body. Fairly self-evident I would think?

Heart is that which is our internal compass; the "receiver" for the Messages of The Creator.

Spirit is that part of us which is also a part of all other things; the thread of connection, the "life" that is within and without at the same time.

For a person to be healthy, all four things must be equally balanced. One must not care for one aspect more or less than the others - in my humble opinoin, of course.

Very astute, sanguine contribution! : If you don't mind, I can expand on what you've contributed by referring to the Bhagavad Gita As It Is, a 5000 year old text on Spiritual Science:

The Bhagavad Gita (which means, in sanskrit "Song of God") gives us the information that we ARE the soul, which is composed of "eternity, knowledge and bliss". (Now that's the start of a whole new conversation!)

The soul can be detected in our present state, by the presence of consciousness...very simple to understand: the difference between a live body and a dead body is simply the presence or absence (departure if you will) of the soul. (And, yes, "spirit" and "soul" are here, interchangeable words). The soul IS the "real" ego of the individual; the body is the gross covering of the individual living entity (whether in the body of a human being, an animal, an insect) and is the activating principal of the body, mind, intelligence and false ego (the person that we identify ourselves with in this temporary setting of material life..."born" on a certain date, into a certain family, with certain skills, likes, dislikes, etc, etc.). When the soul "departs" the body dies. Where does the soul go then and why the "travelling"? All a part of a much bigger discussion!

Let's see where we can go from here...

[Keiju]

Originally Posted by Madhavi dd

Very astute, sanguine contribution! : If you don't mind, I can expand on what you've contributed by referring to the Bhagavad Gita As It Is, a 5000 year old text on Spiritual Science:

The Bhagavad Gita (which means, in sanskrit "Song of God") gives us the information that we ARE the soul, which is composed of "eternity, knowledge and bliss". (Now that's the start of a whole new conversation!)

The soul can be detected in our present state, by the presence of consciousness...very simple to understand: the difference between a live body and a dead body is simply the presence or absence (departure if you will) of the soul. (And, yes, "spirit" and "soul" are here, interchangeable words). The soul IS the "real" ego of the individual; the body is the gross covering of the individual living entity (whether in the body of a human being, an animal, an insect) and is the activating principal of the body, mind, intelligence and false ego (the person that we identify ourselves with in this temporary setting of material life..."born" on a certain date, into a certain family, with certain skills, likes, dislikes, etc, etc.). When the soul "departs" the body dies. Where does the soul go then and why the "travelling"? All a part of a much bigger discussion!

Let's see where we can go from here...

You say the soul is visible due to observation of the difference between something that is alive and dead.

However, when something dies, this is a direct result of the failure of the body. When the body becomes disfunctional it breaks down and can no longer operate.

If the only time we die is when the body is no longer functional, then the difference between something that is alive and dead is not proof of a soul.


Something that is alive is the result of a healthy body.
Something that is dead is the result of a brocken body.


What do you say to that

[SlicK]

Try to find a Creator rather than your soul. Works faster.

[JDuff]

I personally think we are our brains, and that our sense of "I" comes from the interconnectedness of our neural circuits. For example, when you sleep, or when under the influence of psychoactive drugs that create various altered states, the different parts of the brain stop functioning as a coherent whole.

Personally I don't believe in a soul. I used to though.

[Apopohis Reject]

Originally Posted by JDuff

I personally think we are our brains, and that our sense of "I" comes from the interconnectedness of our neural circuits. For example, when you sleep, or when under the influence of psychoactive drugs that create various altered states, the different parts of the brain stop functioning as a coherent whole.

Personally I don't believe in a soul. I used to though.

Well sad to say; by the most valid definition, if you don't believe in a soul, by extension you don't believe in yourself.

[Apopohis Reject]

Originally Posted by DarkTears

A thought just came to me..............that our soul, when we die, it is released and then recycled with other souls, and then they make a new soul, while the remaining return and collect with other souls, to create new ones..........

yes it sounds confusing........

It's also imagination. Try a little authentic investigation instead, would be my advice.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Keiju

THIS

seeing is believing


If you have not experienced any of the above, then I imagine it would be tough to acknowledge a soul, the part of us that continues after death.

If you have not put in serious effort to experience any of the above, then I would stay very quite on the subject matter of whether you think a soul exist's or not.

If you can not experience any of the above, even with serious effort, then you can logically deduce the existence of a soul, through implications of your existence

These implcations include:

• Our existence is too significant to end after this one lifetime.

Spoken like a true human. Has anyone other than a human told you how significant humans are?

• The kind of things we learn whilst existing is suitable for things we are supposed to learn for contuining life after death

Circular logic, like saying the Bible is true because it says so in the Bible.

• Life is far too short with too many questions to really accomplish much of anything, it only makes sense that we experience much longer periods of time, an infinite amount

You assume you are here to accomplish something.

• Given the significance of our existence, it only makes sense that there is a much bigger plan for us, that God, the one who started it all, cares about us, and we're worth too much to simply end here.

You assume we're significant, assume there's a master plan, assume there's a God who cares about us.

• God is aware of our system of reasoning, having been the one to allow it to exist at all in the first place, and given its accurate nature, it only makes sense that it is a lower form of the reasoning process that God would go through.
  Thus we think like God but just much much worse

You assume there's a God who created reasoning and declares it accurate and that God and man go through a similar reasoning process.

Everything within existence is very much intended, more so than you could imgine.

Assumed.
In terms of logical deduction I would say stay very quite on the subject matter of whether you think a soul exist's or not.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Madhavi dd

"Know that which pervades the entire body is indestructible. NO one is able to destroy the imperishable soul." Chapter 2, Text 17

"For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." Text 20

"As a person puts on new garments, giving up old ones, similarly, the soul accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones." Text 22

Just a few verses from the second chapter of the Bhagavad Gita As It Is translated from the sanskrit by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami (McMillan 1972). Answers all these queries (and a whole lot more!) in very concise, easily understood, logical fashion. We can't know everything by mere speculation; we are very teeny living entities with similarly teeny, limited capacities. We have to get knowledge from authorities and ultimately from the Person Who put all this (creation) into motion. Just like you would consult the "User's Manual" for some machine or electronic device to understand how it is constructed, what it needs for maintenance, what it's proper uses are, etc., the Creator has provided authoritative handbooks to understand His creation, what it's for, why we're here, where we go from here, etc. It's just that most "scriptures" have been meddled with by self-interested parties, added to, deleted from and so they are not as authoritative as they were originally. This edition of Bhagavad Gita is authoritative, the teachings therein being carefully preserved through the ages. I guarantee that anyone who gives it a read will come away with a VAST amount of knowledge they never thought was available! It's a mind-blower! Make sure you get the 1972 edition! Here's a link to purchase, if you're interested: Bhagavad gita

Does the Gita say there are many souls or one soul?

[Apopohis Reject]

Arcanum, you appear to harbour a weakness to throw the word 'assume' around ad infinitum, whenever you don't resonate with someone's reasoning for whatever floats your boat. However it would be apparent that all your 'assumes' are in themselves nothing more than assumptions - astoundingly on your part, to wit;....

Originally Posted by Arcanum

You assume you are here to accomplish something.

No that is a CONCLUSION based upon personal research. By definition this research is not yet complete, so the CONCLUSION may well change over time. By the by - I reckon it's a pretty safe CONCLUSION at which to arrive.

Originally Posted by Arcanum

You assume we're significant, assume there's a master plan, assume there's a God who cares about us.

No, whether they are valid or not, these are all ACCEPTANCES, a result of investigation and logic. Again these ACCEPTANCES are open for adjustment at any time. Again, these ACCEPTANCES would appear to be close to the core of existence, for mine.

Originally Posted by Arcanum

You assume there's a God who created reasoning and declares it accurate and that God and man go through a similar reasoning process.

Wrong again. These are JUDGEMENTS, and I would determine - whether you like them or not, dangerously close to REALITY.

Originally Posted by Arcanum

Assumed.
In terms of logical deduction I would say stay very quite on the subject matter of whether you think a soul exist's or not.

I think you mean quiet, anyways ... THE soul surely exists, and IS every one of us. You just struggle under misapprehension because you don't appreciate the ultimate, valid definition of this concept.

Oh by the way, it was a CONFIDENCE that was being expressed rather than an assumption.

Perhaps you best invest in a dictionary to broaden your spectrum of terminology a little, my friend.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject

Arcanum, you appear to harbour a weakness to throw the word 'assume' around ad infinitum, whenever you don't resonate with someone's reasoning for whatever floats your boat. However it would be apparent that all your 'assumes' are in themselves nothing more than assumptions - astoundingly on your part, to wit;....

No that is a CONCLUSION based upon personal research. By definition this research is not yet complete, so the CONCLUSION may well change over time. By the by - I reckon it's a pretty safe CONCLUSION at which to arrive.

No, whether they are valid or not, these are all ACCEPTANCES, a result of investigation and logic. Again these ACCEPTANCES are open for adjustment at any time. Again, these ACCEPTANCES would appear to be close to the core of existence, for mine.

Wrong again. These are JUDGEMENTS, and I would determine - whether you like them or not, dangerously close to REALITY.

I think you mean quiet, anyways ... THE soul surely exists, and IS every one of us. You just struggle under misapprehension because you don't appreciate the ultimate, valid definition of this concept.

Oh by the way, it was a CONFIDENCE that was being expressed rather than an assumption.

Perhaps you best invest in a dictionary to broaden your spectrum of terminology a little, my friend.

You hope the CONFIDENCE and varied terminology with which you express might convince me that your assumptions are other than assumptions. I don't need a more convoluted way of calling a spade a spade. If you want to explore honestly you have to be willing to notice your underlying assumptions and stop calling them conclusions, acceptances and judgments. Actual confidence comes from seeing/realizing, not assuming and believing.