spirituality and suppression + emotional ownership thread

[LostMyMap]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

However a LOT more people thought *I* was less spiritual because I made a point to express myself and be human hanging around in "spiritual" circles can be suffocating sometimes... my measurestick of the real spiritual advancement of a person has a lot more to do with their sense of humour than their capability to avoid being affected by emotions.

That is a mind-blowing awesome thought!

I'm not Buddhist, but we have a couple small Buddhas at home. The Chinese style Buddhas, the ones where he's a big pot belly guy, always seem to have a huge smile. Like he is in perpetual laughter. I'd like to think if I hung out with him, he would be making me laugh.

[rei]

Originally Posted by Solipsist

Can I go stream-of-consciousness here, rei?

Missed this. I don't see why not? I'd rather you not do it toward another poster since that could slide into territory I'm not sure fits with the goal here but if you want to 'just write' about the topic of this thread I don't see any issue with doing so. Have at it!

[Gracestars]

Originally Posted by rei

Ha I hear you, love. For me I can tell it has already started to shift a bit without any conscious decision on my part. The simple desire to explore suppression gave my inner self permission to let some stuff happen. Approaching head-first doesn't work as well for me since I'm so good at keeping things in check and so good at bracing myself for things... so the indirect act of talking about this topic has loosened things up a bit. Least I think it has... but then again I did have that blah hard-to-think thing happening earlier today. Somehow it started shifting though.

Maybe I'll start trying to track the blah peace thing to see if there's a pattern related to diet or time of day or something.

Funny how this thread keeps blending with two others here... but I think it's working and I think the bits in each thread still fit the topics.

Funny ideed. Keeping track of it is a good idea, and whether or not it is diet related. Certainly, if you're finding it hard to fit meals in, the lack of energy could be affecting your brain power. For me, I'm experiencing the hard-to-think pretty consistently. Makes me feel... well, a bit slow, tbh. ha. I'm wondering if maybe I'm just tired though. Work is pretty intense at the moment, as are things on the home front. I wonder if it is some sort of unconscious effort at containment.

[elucidate]

I'm so like this as well. I hardly find any men attractive...at all. I'm ultra picky as well, and sometimes I've settled just because I've been in conflict with that part of me that is picky, and gone the other way.

Originally Posted by spacecadetglow

Maybe it's more of an alleviate boredom thing. It's also an alleviate loneliness thing. And that thought occurred to me too... maybe it's not so bad or wrong. I mean, it has such a negative connotation, but maybe "using" each other isn't so bad. I use my mom for emotional support. I use other people to meet my social needs.

But this bothers me because it's a conscious thing. I guess I just want to feel close to... people I want to feel close to, not people who just happen to be there. You know? I'm ultra picky, maybe to a fault sometimes. I get "the grossness" with guys I get close to rather easily. I'm telling you man, I've only ever *really* been attracted to one guy in my life. I was okay with keeping my eyes open when we did it; I wanted to, actually.

It seems so rare. There are a ton of potentials, but everyone seems so "blah" to me. Meh. And I don't want to meet a guy at a bar, even though I go often, because I figure if he's at a bar he's looking to pick up women and I don't want the type of guy who does that. Yet I still go out, in the hopes of meeting somebody. Self-sabotage, lmao.

[rei]

Originally Posted by Gracestars

Funny ideed. Keeping track of it is a good idea, and whether or not it is diet related. Certainly, if you're finding it hard to fit meals in, the lack of energy could be affecting your brain power. For me, I'm experiencing the hard-to-think pretty consistently. Makes me feel... well, a bit slow, tbh. ha. I'm wondering if maybe I'm just tired though. Work is pretty intense at the moment, as are things on the home front.

Oh I'm not having trouble fitting meals in now... heh. And even before I found ways to increase intake I was taking vitamins and drinking these nutrient-dense drinks (they were just not for weight gaining). The blank mind stuff started recently, and the diet issue had been going on a bit longer than that.

Maybe we can both find some kind of link... though for me I am more and more convinced it was/has been some kind of mild 'checking out' on my part, as a way to cope with how much I have had going on lately. Not major checking out but mild. Better than getting so stressed I can't do things. I guess. And if I end up finding I need more inner resources to deal with whatever is going on there then I suppose I may just initiate the mild checking out again until the circumstances are more conducive to that kind of work. I did find myself appreciating that conscious experience of tension today... which is odd but maybe you can relate.

[elucidate]

I feel this way too when I read or hear people express that they don't approve of wallowing. I don't see anything wrong with enjoying your emotions as they arise, and even wallowing in them for a while. Maybe if it goes on for months or something then it's not so healthy, but I don't see anything negative about that, though there is definately a lot of societal pressure to NOT wallow or it will be seen and judged by others to be unattractive, or 'weak'. That's crap in my opinion.

A lot of people want to appear tough, and don't let themselves feel to the full extent that they may be capable of, I think...which is fine, they don't HAVE to, I just think they might be missing out on something. For some people, wallowing is a way to fully process whatever they are going through, so they CAN get over it, and move on.

Originally Posted by rei

Some awesome stuff here! Thank you all for participating.

stealth87 I really enjoyed reading your post and think you captured well the interplay of the spiritual mindset and emotion.

Solipsist, you expressed the precise mindset I have seen happening to males as they get conditioned for their gender role. If you have stuff to feel I hope you'll at least consider doing it privately and maybe in written form. I know where you're coming from on the doing it within thing... but at least for me, that's not as cleansing or effective as expressing in some way (it's harder for me to express if I'm keeping it internal). Still waters run deep but they can also benefit from letting the stormy weather pop up on the surface sometimes. Oops I broke the advice rule in a sneaky way, dint I. Apologies.

GalacticWanderer and Sandra - I'm not sure this thread is offered as a place to wallow. I'm not advocating that. I'm just not sure it's helpful in the long run to completely deny our emotive side. You can feel without getting into wallow mode. And really the word, "wallow," sounds to me like a negative judgment against emoting unless it's some 'strong/tough' or 'acceptable' emotion. That means someone could possibly be attached to some kind of stoic approach to things. Speaking as someone who is still trying to unravel a stoic presentation!

spacey, I hear you on the peace thread description... I have started to wonder if it was some kind of suppression. Since starting this thread I feel like I've given myself permission to experience some tension that I wasn't consciously accessing before. Nothing new has happened to lead to it so it just makes sense that it's shadow work triggered by this topic. But as I have had more conscious experience of that tension state, it has ended up addressing some of that peace-or-[?] state stuff.

For me I think it was a bit like.... working on myself... working on myself... I'm kind of tired of working on myself and wanna be in a perfecto place so I will just tell myself I have made leaps and boundso progress so I can just take a break from it all. (With an underlying fear/doubt that I hadn't really made beans of progress.) I may be one of those folks who jumps forward through relating instead of jumping forward in solitude. Idk. But I think something like this spiel had something to do with the peace state.

Plus if you're numb and complacent you don't have to deal with extra intense heavy emotion and if you're anything like me sometimes it's like enough is enough I should be (effortlessly) happy by now. I finally decided to just take each moment as it comes... to stop attaching to joy... and eventually soon hopefully I'll figure out what in the world I even want to do about the main emotionalized thing for me (emotional intimacy). I'd rather have my bleeding heart side express instead of my meh, apathetic, self-involved side express.

Thanks again everyone for sharing your thoughts and feelings in this thread. Glad to see it's gotten some use.

[BluBlossom]

Just sharing my thoughts

I kind of see the mind-set of working on yourself or healing yourself as implying that you think or believe you're broken - "Oh no, I am expressing anger. Anger is unacceptable. I need to fix that and act like this". It's not accepting the experience of it because you're judging it. Or perhaps I should say that if you become fixated on perfecting yourself that can become an even greater issue. So, you only work on yourself when you feel a genuine need to, instead of something rooted in nitpickyness or fear. Life heals, but you have to trust that it does. Generally, I find that issues come up without me having to dig for them. They pop-up into my awareness when it's right and I deal with them accordingly. It's a control issue when you keep persisting and it's also a lack of trust in... source and yourself, I would say.

[Gracestars]

Originally Posted by rei

Oh I'm not having trouble fitting meals in now... heh. And even before I found ways to increase intake I was taking vitamins and drinking these nutrient-dense drinks (they were just not for weight gaining). The blank mind stuff started recently, and the diet issue had been going on a bit longer than that.

Right. Got ya.

Maybe we can both find some kind of link... though for me I am more and more convinced it was/has been some kind of mild 'checking out' on my part, as a way to cope with how much I have had going on lately. Not major checking out but mild. Better than getting so stressed I can't do things. I guess. And if I end up finding I need more inner resources to deal with whatever is going on there then I suppose I may just initiate the mild checking out again until the circumstances are more conducive to that kind of work. I did find myself appreciating that conscious experience of tension today... which is odd but maybe you can relate.

Yes, I can fully relate. It's strange and challenging because I'm so unused to it, and because I know myself well enough to sense that this more about repression than it is a mere absence of strong emotion, or more precisely, the ability to express it.

[rei]

Originally Posted by BluBlossom

Just sharing my thoughts

I kind of see the mind-set of working on yourself or healing yourself as implying that you think or believe you're broken - "Oh no, I am expressing anger. Anger is unacceptable. I need to fix that and act like this". It's not accepting the experience of it because you're judging it. Or perhaps I should say that if you become fixated on perfecting yourself that can become an even greater issue. So, you only work on yourself when you feel a genuine need to, instead of something rooted in nitpickyness or fear. Life heals, but you have to trust that it does. Generally, I find that issues come up without me having to dig for them. They pop-up into my awareness when it's right and I deal with them accordingly. It's a control issue when you keep persisting and it's also a lack of trust in... source, I would say.

+1. Love this. Loved your earlier post here as well, BluBlossom.

As for the latest conversation here, I won't try to speak for others but for me the exploration has been more like... I can almost tell that I have that peacefulness because I'm keeping something (emotive) from conscious view. Which has benefits, but if that state also involves extra effort to think then it could be a flashing sign (in muted tones) that I am inviting myself to own something. And I have noticed there's a great intertwining between shadow work and emotion. Of course, shadow work can happen without looking for it, as you sort of said in your post here.

[stealth87]

Originally Posted by BluBlossom

Just sharing my thoughts

I kind of see the mind-set of working on yourself or healing yourself as implying that you think or believe you're broken - "Oh no, I am expressing anger. Anger is unacceptable. I need to fix that and act like this". It's not accepting the experience of it because you're judging it. Or perhaps I should say that if you become fixated on perfecting yourself that can become an even greater issue. So, you only work on yourself when you feel a genuine need to, instead of something rooted in nitpickyness or fear. Life heals, but you have to trust that it does. Generally, I find that issues come up without me having to dig for them. They pop-up into my awareness when it's right and I deal with them accordingly. It's a control issue when you keep persisting and it's also a lack of trust in... source and yourself, I would say.

Thanks for sharing. Trying to fix or constantly improve yourself can be exhausting. It can become a constant struggle like you said.

[agsags]

Emotional repression is bread and butter for those who engage in spiritual bypass.

[spacecadetglow]

Well, hello mirror friend Rei. I completely can relate--didn't you say something recently about shifting from introvert to extrovert? I feel that shift too, man. I'm constantly talking to people, expressing myself. I get bored if I don't. I'm a pretty boring person on my own sometimes! lmao.

I think there was probably some subtle repression happening for me too? I just let out a lot of it today, partly due to your thread.

Grace, you're not the only one who's creatively constipated. Gah.

But I'm right there with you, Rei. I'm frustrated with my routine a bit, been working too much and sitting at home on the forums too much and not doing enough creative stuff. All my jam buddies are so busy and that kind of fizzled out. But, I'm traveling soon, so I have that to look forward to.

[rei]

Yes ma'am, spacey, I did say something about the possibility of becoming more extroverted. I've been doing my most recent PD through just plain living my life and embracing a variety of new experiences.

Even found myself craving something unpredictable instead of the same-old that only became same-old in the last week or three (and the same-old can be quite hectic in itself).

As for emotion, I'm not trying to force it out. I'm more... giving myself permission to ease into or open to anything that might be there.

One of these days when I have enough time I'm going to dig into my main emotional thing so I can quit stalling on the action piece. I've enjoyed increased connections in my physical life, and I've even enjoyed becoming more comfortable with (and appreciative of) superficiality... but I'd still like to create some strong connections. In my physical life, I mean.

I mean, whew. I deal with death and dying on an almost daily basis. Some of the families get closer to me, emotionally, than is perhaps advisable with the nature of the work (though is also a lovely change, an opportunity to see the rei who feels and expresses it openly... crying in front of them or in front of staff when the situation would make it appropriate to do so). Maybe some mild suppression - aka DOSING - is appropriate in the circumstance.

[spacecadetglow]

Wow, yeah. I'm thinking now it's sun in Scorpio, new moon in Scorpio just recently. No doubt it's an intense time for you right now!

I think I've been trying to integrate a LOT of changes into my life, and it's jarring me a bit. I'm still adjusting. I've made really powerful breakthroughs lately, pretty much after your reading and I started to get more focused, achieving things has come very naturally to me. My productivity and moods have shot up... I felt the distinct need to back up and duck out the other day. And maybe that is why I am spending so much time at home, too. But I've been really connected to people at the same time, through skype and chatting and the forums of course.

Strange times indeed. I trust it's all for the best.

[rei]

Originally Posted by spacecadetglow

Wow, yeah. I'm thinking now it's sun in Scorpio, new moon in Scorpio just recently. No doubt it's an intense time for you right now!

I think I've been trying to integrate a LOT of changes into my life, and it's jarring me a bit. I'm still adjusting. I've made really powerful breakthroughs lately, pretty much after your reading and I started to get more focused, achieving things has come very naturally to me. My productivity and moods have shot up... I felt the distinct need to back up and duck out the other day. And maybe that is why I am spending so much time at home, too. But I've been really connected to people at the same time, through skype and chatting and the forums of course.

Strange times indeed. I trust it's all for the best.

Hey coolio. Glad I got an update as that's pretty much the exact thing you were hoping to get from the reading!

Thank you for the astrological update. I didn't know about the alignment aside from Scorpio coming up in the year's progression, but yeah... that explains some things

I made a few breakthroughs lately myself, though in an indirect way. At some point I may need to let go of the rebelliousness that I believe gets in the way of the direct goal-setting route. But then again, if it ain't broke. Flighty artsy spontaneous types can make progress too, nonlinear though it may be...

[Gracestars]

Originally Posted by rei

I mean, whew. I deal with death and dying on an almost daily basis. Some of the families get closer to me, emotionally, than is perhaps advisable with the nature of the work (though is also a lovely change, an opportunity to see the rei who feels and expresses it openly... crying in front of them or in front of staff when the situation would make it appropriate to do so). Maybe some mild suppression - aka DOSING - is appropriate in the circumstance.

On the same page here too, lady. My role has expanded to work with survivors of other types of violence in addition to the client group with which my expertise lies. Again, containment, possibly in the arena of vicarious trauma - an unavoidable professional hazard.

The dosing makes sense I think, though likely not the whole story, in my case anyway.

EDIT: Re-read the last line of your post... thinking maybe I misundersood you a little?

[Gracestars]

Originally Posted by spacecadetglow

Grace, you're not the only one who's creatively constipated. Gah.

Frustrating, isn't it?! Blah. The worst part is that I know it's all there, I just can't access it.

Oh, and you're into astrology too, I see... nice. It's one of my fave things, except that I haven't felt inspired to play with that lately, either.

God, I sound depressed. I'm not though. Weird. Meh.

[Gracestars]

Originally Posted by agsags

Emotional repression is bread and butter for those who engage in spiritual bypass.

Care to talk more to this?

[rei]

Originally Posted by Gracestars

On the same page here too, lady. My role has expanded to work with survivors of other types of violence in addition to the client group with which my expertise lies. Again, containment, possibly in the arena of vicarious trauma - an unavoidable professional hazard.

The dosing makes sense I think, though likely not the whole story, in my case anyway.

EDIT: Re-read the last line of your post... thinking maybe I misundersood you a little?

I mean... most of the blah effortful thinking on my part is occurring in a work environment where I deal with death/dying and a chaotic staff situation. And I had the social work burnout warning drilled into me so I've tried to avoid overinvolving myself. Which can feel a little blah. But on top of that it could be that the blah experience is a side effect of dosing the emotion from all the various tasks and layers to the experience. Less something I chose with full awareness and more something that my mindbody chose so I could continue doing with the kind of clarity needed. I dunno, typing it out that way it sounds like b.s.

That's what I meant by dosing, though. Like my mindbody is delegating or regulating the conscious emotive experience so I don't have too much emotion to deal with in a single moment. Because I'm focused on doing the things I'm being paid to do. So it would be a form of mild checking out but not necessarily something I could just switch off because it has to do with coping skills and inner resources and I guess maybe I don't really want to mess with my coping pattern if it's working... at least, I don't want to get into that as long as this isn't happening 100% of the time, which it isn't.

And there's also moments where it occurs in other settings. I agree with the line of thinking about just living my life, not looking for problems. It's just with this particular thing (the meh-ness and effortful thinking) it doesn't quite feel congruent to say it's merely trying to find a problem. It's like the blah is a floodgate or something. (There's something stirring inside at the idea of that.)

I guess it might help to trust my ego/conscious mind to work well with my sub/unconscious, and to allow whatever that is about to come say hello when it would be affirming to do so. As in quit trying to force it or figure it out and just trust that -- whatever it is -- it's perfect for where I'm at and what I have going on these days. It hasn't gotten in the way of any major goals... aside from intellectual debate type stuff which isn't a necessity.

So did you misunderstand or...? Love ya.

[rei]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I feel this way too when I read or hear people express that they don't approve of wallowing. I don't see anything wrong with enjoying your emotions as they arise, and even wallowing in them for a while. Maybe if it goes on for months or something then it's not so healthy, but I don't see anything negative about that, though there is definately a lot of societal pressure to NOT wallow or it will be seen and judged by others to be unattractive, or 'weak'. That's crap in my opinion.

A lot of people want to appear tough, and don't let themselves feel to the full extent that they may be capable of, I think...which is fine, they don't HAVE to, I just think they might be missing out on something. For some people, wallowing is a way to fully process whatever they are going through, so they CAN get over it, and move on.

I'm just honestly not keen on the word "wallowing." It seems, to me, to be invalidating of one's own emotive experience. Feeling a feeling can be cleansing or healing or freeing or even centering. None of those words have the connotation of "wallowing."

Now I do think sometimes a person can get attached to sadness or anger or whatever. Then it goes on longer than needed to feel the feeling. But if someone didn't start earlier with emotional ownership then today's sadness could stick to the sadness of yesterday so there may be more to feel then, because we're opening up to the vibration of that emotion - and if we allowed ourselves to let it stick to any other suppression of that vibration then there could be more surfacing.

For me, truly being with the feeling and carrying with it through to completion typically takes minutes. If it goes on for days or weeks ... that isn't quite what I mean by processing feelings. That's more like giving myself permission to be stuck in it for some reason. And if it goes on for days or weeks then I'm not really being present to the feeling, I don't think. Or I'm present to it but it goes on longer less from the feeling itself and more from the thoughts I have about it or on the wavelength of the feeling.

I don't think emotional ownership or being present to emotion is wallowing. I think 'wallowing' can enter the picture if we don't really want to be done feeling that way yet. Nothing wrong with that but I'm not sure it is entirely presence to the initial emotion. Instead of being about tidying up from the last couple days of lazy living in my bedroom, it becomes more like cleaning out the garage - or starts as cleaning the garage and turns into some kind of romanticized dwelling on every piece of junk I'm getting ready to throw out.

[Cochonette]

Originally Posted by LostMyMap

That is a mind-blowing awesome thought!

I'm not Buddhist, but we have a couple small Buddhas at home. The Chinese style Buddhas, the ones where he's a big pot belly guy, always seem to have a huge smile. Like he is in perpetual laughter. I'd like to think if I hung out with him, he would be making me laugh.

Hahaha! I never thought of the happy Buddha that way. Thanks for making that connection!

[agsags]

Originally Posted by Gracestars

Care to talk more to this?

Someone has some repressed unpleasant emotion - let's say anger. Maybe it's towards their parents. They don't know how to deal with it and how to express it. Maybe in the past they tried to expressed it an it came out as hostility. Maybe it came out as aggression and they got scared by their action. So instead of approaching their anger differently, instead of facing something unpleasant, uncomfortable and new, learning how to express this anger cleanly, they choose a spiritual tradition that denounces anger, that recommends one to "just watch as it arises" or "transform your anger into love". They are in deep pain, but the teacher/writing says that "everything is perfect as it is", concentrate on the "NOW", "drop the story", etc.

One doesn't need to be in a spiritual community to see this spiritual bypass. Have you ever shared some "unpleasant" emotion with a friend (grief, sadness) only to hear back "Cheer up! It's all good! Think positive!". That's supressing emotion by the way of spiritual bypass.

P.S. If you want to read more on Spiritual Bypass, read John Welwood (he coined the term) and Robert Augustus Masters - especially his last book on this very topic.

[Cochonette]

Originally Posted by spacecadetglow

PM me if you like! I'm open to it.

Well, if you're open to it, I'll just say here.

Originally Posted by spacecadetglow

Equanimity and slight disconnect. I can't tell if this is because I'm flying too far off into la la land of spirituality without solid grounding or what. But I'm almost bored. Bored with being calm. Ha! Maybe this is why I want to attract someone into my life, because of the emotional roller coaster it usually is. Is it bad to be addicted to that? Aren't we all kind of addicted to it? I mean, is anyone ever really getting it right, ever?

There is nothing wrong with wanting that emotional roller coaster. It's the thrill of the challenge. That emotional roller coaster is your challenge, your place to learn through ups and downs. Of course, being intimate with another person is a challenge in and of itself, a challenge to open your heart more deeply to some part of the world than you ever have before. That one person you really were into once, I bet you learned a lot from that person and that experience. Right? I know that the world fell open when I fell in love.

But also... just the sheer aspect of love, you know? Love is what many people say they live for, myself included. The last person I fell for described herself as "very intimate," and that almost seems an understatement (actually, both people I fell for were intensely intimate). Intimate in general, and of course with me. I want to be like that. I want to be more intimate with life in general, with people in general, because I want to love, I love to love. You know, being in a romantic relationship like we speak of, it is like darkworking... one person shows you the depths of yourself, and you become closer to life and many other people because of that work. At least, that's how it is for me.

Intimacy = love.

Right now I am focusing on being a creator, creating positive thoughts and self-confidence... laughter. I'm trying to be more playful (play = fun = opposite of boredom?). Maybe you could focus on creating challenges and excitement for yourself? Or... on creating intimacy, perhaps more generally? I know, just doing this may not compare to the uncontrived intimacy you develop out of meeting someone very special, but at least working on it somewhat on your own can open you up a bit. It may even open you up enough to increase your chances of finding that special someone!

Originally Posted by spacecadetglow

I'm also worried that I'm using people. Using them to have someone to be close to, without really appreciating them as people, but just because they're there to talk to and I want that. Not everyone. Just certain people.

Yeeeeaah... I get a similar feeling lately. I feel like I could just ask certain people if they want to explore intimacy with me, as in explore our hearts, strengthen our sense of connection to others. But then I'm like, I don't want to ask and then change my mind once we're there, because I know that connection isn't going to be us in love with each other.

Hey, I'm the self-confidence advocate! I'm going to give myself some advice here: just have confidence in exploring connections. lol

It's all just a game. I keep thinking of Bill Hicks' performance where he keeps saying, "But it's okay. 'Cause it's just a ride." This is how I remind myself to be playful...

What was I saying? I'm focusing on appreciating people more. It goes back to my confidence post you read. It's been slower than the self-confidence progress since it's less of my focus right now, but I notice I'm beginning to change... I still feel too much inside myself, like I want to see more inside of others again, as I know I have before.

Okay, I haven't really figured this part out yet... like I said, I've loved very, very deeply and intensely before, not just the women I was in love with. I still love, but my mind's in a weird place right now. I know I'll find the way back. I'm sure we all will! Let's let each other know when we do. I think the love is definitely there, it's just not as intense and crisp and clear as I'd like it to be. I want to bring it into focus. Bring others into focus. Through playful appreciation.

Originally Posted by spacecadetglow

I know that I need to start recording to get used to it and get past the disconnect between how I really sound and how I think I sound. But I'm simultaneously discouraged to do it because of that. Oh well, it has to happen.

I know how you feel... I posted videos of me online recently... LOL, the disconnect. But then I got some great feedback that I'm going to use! Applies to so much of life... I'm just aiming to stay focused on what I want, the learning experience, and it's more exciting than discouraging that way. As far as being inspired goes... aim to get inspired by life! I mean, just look at me!!! I can't even believe how much I have to say in this one post... how unlike me! I just feel unusually inspired, because I'm trying so freaking hard. (When will I shut up?!!!)

Originally Posted by spacecadetglow

It seems so rare. There are a ton of potentials, but everyone seems so "blah" to me. Meh.

My final piece of advice is: you should go on a date with me!!!!

I'd take up your Skype offer if I actually had a microphone.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by rei

I'm just honestly not keen on the word "wallowing." It seems, to me, to be invalidating of one's own emotive experience. Feeling a feeling can be cleansing or healing or freeing or even centering. None of those words have the connotation of "wallowing."

I have a completely different feeling of the word "wallow," rei. For me, it's like a happy pig in mud, just rolling around in whatever I'm feeling, really flinging myself in deeply and getting it all over me, inside and out.

Sometimes wallowing feels great -- has me feeling very satisfied and content and diggy. I may not be getting immediate conscious learnings from it, but when I crave wallow, I recognize it's for a purpose. Sometimes the purpose is just to really dive in and do some big feeling to get some big learning, and sometimes it's to get something out of my system by going through it boldly.

I think it's got something of a negative connotation because of its impact on others -- that is, other people can get impatient or irritated and want me to snap out of it so that they feel better. I'm kind of a private wallower, because I don't want to be distracted from my wallowing to have to deal with someone else's needs. Wallowing is quality me-time.

[VinceG]

Wallowing in self-pity feels great once in awhile. Cathartic, even. Especially when I can make loud, condescending proclamations to myself.

"Go ahead Vince! Eat that cookie! You'll never amount to anything other than a filthy cookie eater! Your writing sucks and you'll never be truly accepted by anyone! So just sit your happy, enlightened ass down and eat your cookie!"

Feels great!

[Angela]

Self-pity is not my favorite thing to wallow in.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Angela

Self-pity is not my favorite thing to wallow in.

I've got somewhat of a masochistic streak in me. Whip me, beat me, insult me, tear me down, but whatever you do, don't ignore me!

[Solipsist]

Okay, I'm gonna give this a shot. Maybe it will do me some good, I dunno.

Honestly, I'm somewhat confused by the purpose of this thread, as I see "no advice" in big, bold letters of the OP, yet I see some giving advice. Not that I judge anyone for this. I give advice, myself, in other threads, but I refrain in this one, because I understand the point. What I'm about to do, though, is spill some guts, and so I'd appreciate it if y'all could follow the OP, and shut the ♥♥♥♥♥ up about anything I say here. You can PM me if you have anything to say.

I'm having to deal with some emotions, right now, because, basically, my outer world is crumbling, and I'm okay with it. I'm okay with it, because I've been going through a major spiritual catharsis, and discovering that it's okay being uncertain about the future. As many of you know, already, I'm all about the Now, and presence, and all that. Right now, though, I'm having to deal with a deeper issue, as the more minor things are cleared out, and that deeper issue is whether I deserve to be happy.

I could spill the childhood crap, but I'm over it, for the most part. Suffice it to say that I'm wondering, on a very deep level, how to clear out that sense that I was born to endure a constant suffering, either my own, or that of others (like the compassion I feel for people, these days).

On top of this, I am now having to deal with the lifelong struggle I've had with being intimate, both physically and emotionally with another human being. Talk in other threads alludes to the "intensity" of such connections, and honestly, I've never experienced such intensity. That most others do, and that it's "normal" to experience or even need this, makes me feel seriously abnormal, dysfunctional, disordered. Not because I don't need it, but because I've never experienced it, like "normal" people do. All my life, I've never felt worthy of such an experience. For years, I blamed the childhood, my parents, even women and men themselves, but I now recognize, and deeply, that this is my issue to face and accept what I need to accept.

In another thread, rei asked if my views on "connections" were possibly a way for me to hide my desire to experience intimacy. TBH, I really don't know. Part of me asks this of myself, and another part of me says, "no way", simply because it takes two to tango, and I simply haven't found a woman who wants to tango with me. I used to blame everyone, including myself, for this, but right now, it is enough for me just to accept it.

That means dealing with the emotions that all that brings with it, and let me tell you, if you've never had to deal with these specifically yourself, it's an entire world of emotional agony. I use Tolle's method to deal with it--embrace it, but don't identify with it, and that works well for me. I know there's Love and Joy and Peace on the other side of this, but right now, I'm simply grateful for the courage that I've always had to face these deep, personal issues.

[spacecadetglow]

Wow lady, thanks so much for your post. Appropriately timed, that's all I gotta say.

Originally Posted by Cochonette

There is nothing wrong with wanting that emotional roller coaster. It's the thrill of the challenge. That emotional roller coaster is your challenge, your place to learn through ups and downs. Of course, being intimate with another person is a challenge in and of itself, a challenge to open your heart more deeply to some part of the world than you ever have before. That one person you really were into once, I bet you learned a lot from that person and that experience. Right? I know that the world fell open when I fell in love.

Absolutely. I think I've been subconsciously telling myself that it has to be *him* (my ex) that did that to me, but maybe it was just Love. Still, something inside me resists that. I mean, I attach and attribute all my life-changing experiences during that time in my life to him! Maybe that's okay, too. I feel like it won't be until I fall in love again that I'll be able to separate it all out.

But also... just the sheer aspect of love, you know? Love is what many people say they live for, myself included. The last person I fell for described herself as "very intimate," and that almost seems an understatement (actually, both people I fell for were intensely intimate). Intimate in general, and of course with me. I want to be like that. I want to be more intimate with life in general, with people in general, because I want to love, I love to love. You know, being in a romantic relationship like we speak of, it is like darkworking... one person shows you the depths of yourself, and you become closer to life and many other people because of that work. At least, that's how it is for me.

This is beautiful, and resonates very deeply for me. I especially like how you talk about getting more intimate with life in general. I'm totally feeling that lately, trying to open myself to it even though every part of me is reigning it back, saying "no! stupid! bad! not safe!" LOL.

Right now I am focusing on being a creator, creating positive thoughts and self-confidence... laughter. I'm trying to be more playful (play = fun = opposite of boredom?). Maybe you could focus on creating challenges and excitement for yourself? Or... on creating intimacy, perhaps more generally? I know, just doing this may not compare to the uncontrived intimacy you develop out of meeting someone very special, but at least working on it somewhat on your own can open you up a bit. It may even open you up enough to increase your chances of finding that special someone!

Are you a channel, too?! I can't tell you how spot on this is for me. It's like you reached my higher self or something. I like the idea of working on it on my own, slowly.

Yeeeeaah... I get a similar feeling lately. I feel like I could just ask certain people if they want to explore intimacy with me, as in explore our hearts, strengthen our sense of connection to others. But then I'm like, I don't want to ask and then change my mind once we're there, because I know that connection isn't going to be us in love with each other.

Yep. But you've put forward a very interesting idea here. It kind of reminds me of polyamory, sharing with everybody. I don't think I'd be interested in sexual polyamory (who really knows?) but the idea of spreading it around (love, not the clap) rather than go full on with somebody is kind of nice to me.

Aw, heck, who am I kidding. I know what you mean, but I've always known myself to be a black and white person when it comes to love. I mean, I have love for everybody, but that kind of love? It feels too big to have for more than one person.

I wonder if there are ways to love I don't know about yet. I wonder if I'm already experiencing them, and it's just a matter of being present to see this in action.

All kinds of emotional churning is happening in regards to this, and I have to say, I'm liking it. It feels like I'm transitioning into a new way of being with Love. There's some work to do, but I have a good feeling about it.

Hey, I'm the self-confidence advocate! I'm going to give myself some advice here: just have confidence in exploring connections. lol

It's all just a game. I keep thinking of Bill Hicks' performance where he keeps saying, "But it's okay. 'Cause it's just a ride." This is how I remind myself to be playful...

What was I saying? I'm focusing on appreciating people more. It goes back to my confidence post you read. It's been slower than the self-confidence progress since it's less of my focus right now, but I notice I'm beginning to change... I still feel too much inside myself, like I want to see more inside of others again, as I know I have before.

I love it. Having confidence is HUGE for me. Some areas of my life I'm very confident in, like my job. Others could use some work. This part of your post really got to me, though: "I still feel too much inside myself, like I want to see more inside of others again, as I know I have before." Wow. I just relate so much to that... with all this PD work, I'm starting to find myself to be a total bore. It's like, okay, enough with the introspection already, I want to go out into the world, get lost in books and movies and other people, travel, push my limits. Are you shifting from introvert to extrovert like me and Rei too?

Okay, I haven't really figured this part out yet... like I said, I've loved very, very deeply and intensely before, not just the women I was in love with. I still love, but my mind's in a weird place right now. I know I'll find the way back. I'm sure we all will! Let's let each other know when we do. I think the love is definitely there, it's just not as intense and crisp and clear as I'd like it to be. I want to bring it into focus. Bring others into focus. Through playful appreciation.

I hear that. Can you relate at all with worrying that you're deceiving yourself with it? I mean, the way that I treat this lovey, mushy part of me is to discipline and tame it, like a carriage driver whipping his horses. I don't want to let myself get carried away, and I'm not sure if that's a product of fear, or if it's a sign "this is the wrong person," or what.

I had a moment earlier where I just thought to myself, "What am I supposed to do? What is this supposed to feel like?" I almost burst out into laughter at my panic, though. What an ineffable feeling, staring one's own irrational emotions in the face and laughing at them, no, with them. It's the mystery, Shelley's "inconstant visitor."

I know how you feel... I posted videos of me online recently... LOL, the disconnect. But then I got some great feedback that I'm going to use! Applies to so much of life... I'm just aiming to stay focused on what I want, the learning experience, and it's more exciting than discouraging that way. As far as being inspired goes... aim to get inspired by life! I mean, just look at me!!! I can't even believe how much I have to say in this one post... how unlike me! I just feel unusually inspired, because I'm trying so freaking hard. (When will I shut up?!!!)

Yeah, a learning experience. I know that deep down, I'm just so damn hard on myself and have ridiculous expectations to boot. I know once I sit down and start recording, it's going to get easier and I'm gonna love it, like I did before.

My final piece of advice is: you should go on a date with me!!!!

I'd take up your Skype offer if I actually had a microphone.

Name the state and place, girl! LOL.

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by LostMyMap

The Chinese style Buddhas, the ones where he's a big pot belly guy, always seem to have a huge smile. Like he is in perpetual laughter. I'd like to think if I hung out with him, he would be making me laugh.

The fat Buddha is actually a Bodhisattva named Maitreya. He's also called the monk with the cloth bag. He was sort of like Santa Claus. I know, I'm such a debbie downer because I took a Buddhist philosophy class. The former monk who taught the class was quite a downer himself, TBH.

I've been outside a lot lately, I feel called to do this. Get my hands dirty, so to speak. I don't know why, I just do it. My son reminds me to get off the computer and go outside all the time. So I missed this thread! haha

I personally think emotional suppression has absolutely nothing to do with awakening, it's a leftover bit from the Puritan ethic so deeply rooted in the psyche of Americans that they apply it to almost everything. Work, work, work. And if you feel joy, you're not working!

It's in the epigenome, I think. Bred into the fiber of our emotional being. It's funny because in conversation generally that is what American's always aks first "what do you do?" and this remains the main way through which we define ourselves, and the main mental shortcut that we offer to others to create a quick 2-D homunculus of us inside their head.

I like saying "what it do" a la slang now because that just seems more appropriate, since it is not you. lol

In my experience, it's has been most valuable to learn how to surf the waves. And realize that there is no solid ground in my emotional landscape. What ground there was, I created out of illusion, and it only served to break the waves and create more chaos within. Now I see just the endless roiling ocean surging and receding. And the further out into the ocean I venture, the easier it becomes to navigate the swells.

I am so down with "Why Has Bodhidharma Left for the East?" - I can't stay in the ivory tower of contemplation. I must be in the world.