How is the mind more than in the brain?

[theuprising]

If I drink coke, drink alcohol, smoke weed, become tired (lacking neurotransmitters), or shoot myself up with x, y, z drug, my mind will be disrupted accordingly.

Stuff that messes with my prefrontal cortex will make my thinking more dull and stuff that messes with my hypothalamus makes my spacial sense worse. Its quite like a computer. Now when the brain dies, why doesn't the program it was running? How could we possibly exist without the brain?

There was a case where a guy had a pole run through his head through his prefrontal cortex, and after removal, he had a different personality. If our entire brain goes out, how could anything possibly exist?? There are systems in our body to help keep us alive such as the respiratory, cardiovascular, and digestive systems, is our mind just a system DNA invented for us so we could help pass it on better?

I hear its something like our mind is the blueprint for our brain to develop, hence neural plasticity and such. If we are experiencing consciousness with our astral body in dreams, will "life after death" be similar to that until we arrive with another body? And if our mind is the blueprint for the brain, why aren't memories of previous lives in there (though there are cases of this happening). I wonder what would happen if our astral body got injured... or "died"

[Curtis2011]

I am pretty sure your astral body can't actually "die"... According to most spiritual "experts" (ie, Jesus, Buddha, et al.) your soul exists forever.


In Dr. Hawkins' books he mentions that "mind" is actually like an electromagnetic field, and everyone's individual brains are actually just picking up on thoughts that are characteristic of the field of consciousness that you currently reside in.

So, if your soul resides in a level of Anger, your mind/brain will pick up the "radio signal" of all angry thoughts. If you exist in Love, you will pick up loving thoughts, etc.

He says that no thoughts are actually our own. This is also why new ideas can appear in different people's minds all across the world at the same time.


Sidenote, he also says that once you become enlightened, you can actually remember all of your past lives with clarity as if they are one long, continuous life, because essentially they are.

[allis1]

we are not our brains. we are not our bodies. we are not our minds.

we are something else altogether.

[goldberg]

Originally Posted by theuprising

If I drink coke, drink alcohol, smoke weed, become tired (lacking neurotransmitters), or shoot myself up with x, y, z drug, my mind will be disrupted accordingly.

Stuff that messes with my prefrontal cortex will make my thinking more dull and stuff that messes with my hypothalamus makes my spacial sense worse. Its quite like a computer. Now when the brain dies, why doesn't the program it was running? How could we possibly exist without the brain?

There was a case where a guy had a pole run through his head through his prefrontal cortex, and after removal, he had a different personality. If our entire brain goes out, how could anything possibly exist?? There are systems in our body to help keep us alive such as the respiratory, cardiovascular, and digestive systems, is our mind just a system DNA invented for us so we could help pass it on better?

I hear its something like our mind is the blueprint for our brain to develop, hence neural plasticity and such. If we are experiencing consciousness with our astral body in dreams, will "life after death" be similar to that until we arrive with another body? And if our mind is the blueprint for the brain, why aren't memories of previous lives in there (though there are cases of this happening). I wonder what would happen if our astral body got injured... or "died"

Well the obvious answer is the mind is all their is and that there is no other part of it. There is no credible evidence to suggest otherwise.

If I were to assume there was an astral spirit, then sure it could be damaged. If spirits are born then they can die.

[Curtis2011]

Originally Posted by goldberg

If spirits are born then they can die.

What if they aren't born and just exist?

[curiouslyrandom]

Cogito ergo sum.

There is an excellent book that discusses the mind/brain difference, but I can't remember the title and searching through Amazon didn't help. It had "zen" in the title, I think, which is why I picked it up to begin with, but it wasn't about Buddhism. There was so much of interest in it that I don't think I ever finished reading it. Instead I read certain chapters over and over again, just absorbing the information.

Sorry, I know that isn't much help. I'm just frustrated I can't remember the name of the book.

[Lawliet]

I don't know if this is fully relevant, but the way I make sense of the whole soul-body business is to imagine the body as a kind of remote-control agent for the soul in the physical world. The soul would have its base capabilities (I suspect it to only be capable of emotion and sensory experience) and the body would provide extended functionality like memory, logic, locomotion, etc... and the two would be linked. So obviously, any changes in body would reflect on soul; brain damage causes memory loss because soul doesn't have a memory of its own.

It's rough around the edges, but you get the idea.

[AaronA]

Now when the brain dies, why doesn't the program it was running? How could we possibly exist without the brain?

Well, you can go one step further regarding the physical body. Cells are constantly dying and being replaced. At some point, it's a totally different physical structure. But we consider it the same "person"; people aren't assigned a new identity just because they have all new cells. If the old brain's cellular material has been completely replaced, did the old brain die?
Derek Parfit (and others) talks about this idea, and it's a pretty interesting perspective to consider, if you're considering things from a completely materialistic standpoint.

[WarrenG]

Aaron,

Yes that is very interesting. Materialistically, the idea of another person with an identity is just a useful heuristic to help understand a world where matter moves around and talks and stuff. 'You' are just the label given to the particular configuration of organic matter that you happen to be experiencing. Not a million miles from a spiritual explanation.

Also, we know that memories eventually become structural changes in the brain, so I wonder if you couldn't freeze a brain, then when the technology is there, find out everything about that person.

[AaronA]

Originally Posted by WarrenG

Aaron,

Yes that is very interesting. Materialistically, the idea of another person with an identity is just a useful heuristic to help understand a world where matter moves around and talks and stuff. 'You' are just the label given to the particular configuration of organic matter that you happen to be experiencing. Not a million miles from a spiritual explanation.

Also, we know that memories eventually become structural changes in the brain, so I wonder if you couldn't freeze a brain, then when the technology is there, find out everything about that person.

I would think that would be possibly, barring any quantum influences, and those seem to have been discredited as having a role in consciousness. But one never knows, I guess.

[theuprising]

Originally Posted by Lawliet

I don't know if this is fully relevant, but the way I make sense of the whole soul-body business is to imagine the body as a kind of remote-control agent for the soul in the physical world. The soul would have its base capabilities (I suspect it to only be capable of emotion and sensory experience) and the body would provide extended functionality like memory, logic, locomotion, etc... and the two would be linked. So obviously, any changes in body would reflect on soul; brain damage causes memory loss because soul doesn't have a memory of its own.

It's rough around the edges, but you get the idea.

I thought there was a karmic memory, or some sort of memory according to buddhism, cuz when u die the some total of all the thoughts that you have ever thought gets "saved" and from that a new reincarnation cycle is started.

Bashar states that life was a "limiting" thing and in death you "wake up" to explore more of you. Don't know how much of that i believe tho

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by theuprising

If I drink coke, drink alcohol, smoke weed, become tired (lacking neurotransmitters), or shoot myself up with x, y, z drug, my mind will be disrupted accordingly.

Stuff that messes with my prefrontal cortex will make my thinking more dull and stuff that messes with my hypothalamus makes my spacial sense worse. Its quite like a computer. Now when the brain dies, why doesn't the program it was running? How could we possibly exist without the brain?

What if it was more analogous to a motorized vehicle? The truck doesn't move unless a person is driving it, but what if the truck was damaged? For example, maybe the windshield was all cracked up so you couldn't see the road. How effective would your driving be? Certainly your spatial sense would appear to be terrible. After-all, you can't see clearly anymore.

However, this doesn't mean the driver stopped existing when the car broke down. He just gets another car (if he wants one).

Originally Posted by theuprising

There was a case where a guy had a pole run through his head through his prefrontal cortex, and after removal, he had a different personality. If our entire brain goes out, how could anything possibly exist?? There are systems in our body to help keep us alive such as the respiratory, cardiovascular, and digestive systems, is our mind just a system DNA invented for us so we could help pass it on better?

Well that is certainly the reductionist explanation of events, but for what it's worth as my personal testimony to you, that is not all she wrote. There is no death for what you perceive as your conscious awareness. There is no end to consciousness because there was no beginning to it. And there is some worthwhile evidence to look at as well. Research NDE research, and the works of Ian Stevenenson, Michael Newton, and Brian Weiss. Not all anecdotal evidence has to be thrown out the window, either. However many scientists won't even entertain the possibility. But empiricism is very unforgiving sometimes. Some things, even though being real and true, can't be replicated in a laboratory setting.

The man who had the pole go through his brain (Phineas Gage) which resulted in the personality change can yet still be explained through the vehicle analogy.

For example, what if more internal damage happened to the truck? Perhaps the windshield wipers no longer work, maybe it doesn't shift gears properly, maybe it can't go as fast as it used to, or maybe the axil was bent.

Certainly, the visible behavior of the car would change dramatically, and perhaps as a result of this vehicular damage, the driver doesn't enjoy driving the car as much. Perhaps its just not that fun anymore. So even the expression of the driver through the car would be altered by such damage. Maybe they don't go off-roading anymore. Maybe they don't drive very far. All the other vehicles would point and whisper among themselves saying things like, "My, how red truck has changed!" They might even mistakenly assume this was evidence that the machinery in the car is the only thing that constitutes the expression of the red truck.

Originally Posted by theuprising

I hear its something like our mind is the blueprint for our brain to develop, hence neural plasticity and such. If we are experiencing consciousness with our astral body in dreams, will "life after death" be similar to that until we arrive with another body? And if our mind is the blueprint for the brain, why aren't memories of previous lives in there (though there are cases of this happening). I wonder what would happen if our astral body got injured... or "died"

The brain does store memories, but so does your consciousness. Actually, if you want my metaphysical opinion, the body is made of consciousness also. It's just a different frequency of consciousness (much much lower frequency). All energy is conscious. What separates the consciousness of matter from the consciousness that constitutes our personalities is the rate of vibration. Consciousness is like water in some ways. When you take the energy out of water (the heat) -- which is just molecular motion -- the water slows down, becomes less fluid, and eventually crystallizes into ice. The same thing happens with consciousness. Matter is like frozen consciousness, or thought. The consciousness of matter does not communicate as seamlessly as our consciousness does, because most of it is just a bunch of particles doing their own random thing. There is no integration for the most part.

The less communication there is, the less awareness as a result of that. The brain is an interesting structure because there is a lot of information sharing going on, mechanically. This is what allows us to interface with the brain. It is translating sensory information mechanically and it is being integrated in the brain, which is then delivered to our consciousness. The brain matter produces consciousness on a frequency which our "souls" or integrated personalities can complimentarily interact with.

This is also why it wouldn't be possible to create a soul-less android. If you somehow succeeded in making an android that was self aware, it would then have an integrated personality that would maintain coherence even after it was destroyed. The consciousness inside it that was expressing itself in an entropic, random, or disarrayed way would now have increased its energy orbit of consciousness expression through the communal sharing of information. It would form a stable identity, in other-words.

The memories of past lives and the hereafter is normally repressed at birth for the duration of the incarnation and this is deliberate. This mitigates the oh so human motivation to "avenge past wrongs" and approach problems we encounter in life in the same ways as the past. It enriches the learning experience, in other words.

And you're right, the post physical arena is very much like the dream world, only rather than being semi-conscious of the environment, you are fully aware of its nature. It can appear just as the physical world if desired. You can even create a body for yourself between lives if you want. Its just on a much higher frequency.

Now, I have no proof to back any of that up, but that's how it works from my perspective.

[kenny r]

Originally Posted by goldberg

If I were to assume there was an astral spirit, then sure it could be damaged. If spirits are born then they can die.

I always got the impression from the lessons of the greatest spiritual teachers past and present that spirit cannot die, neither was it ever born, and can't be damaged.

The mind or consciousness, I think, is non-local, not located in the brain. Rather the brain, as well the body and all of existence exists within consciousness.

[goldberg]

Originally Posted by Curtis2011

What if they aren't born and just exist?

What if a monkey is a fish?