I'm right and you're (fill in the blank)

[curiouslyrandom]

Something that catches my eye while reading through many of the threads on this forum is the absolute certainty by some posters that they are the epitome of correct information, and anyone who disagrees with them is either a) stupid, b) misinformed, c) going straight to hell, or d) all of the above.

It's painful to read those responses. It really is, because it shows how some people shut down and will not accept any opinion other than their own. And you know what? There are over 6 billion different opinions in the world on any topic you can think of. That makes for a wide range of right and wrong.

Shades of gray, people. Lots and lots of shades of gray. In other words, nothing is as black and white as it may seem.

[Vibration]

Originally Posted by curiouslyrandom

Something that catches my eye while reading through many of the threads on this forum is the absolute certainty by some posters that they are the epitome of correct information, and anyone who disagrees with them is either a) stupid, b) misinformed, c) going straight to hell, or d) all of the above.

It's painful to read those responses. It really is, because it shows how some people shut down and will not accept any opinion other than their own. And you know what? There are over 6 billion different opinions in the world on any topic you can think of. That makes for a wide range of right and wrong.

Shades of gray, people. Lots and lots of shades of gray. In other words, nothing is as black and white as it may seem.

I couldn't agree more; to quote myself from another thread:

Originally Posted by Vibration

Possibly one of the most important things I've learned is to never say never. I've likewise learned that it's dangerous to assume one has a correct understanding of something, since that leads one to automatically dismiss anything that sounds to the contrary. Some of the worst deeds have been done by someone who was absolutely sure they were right when they were in fact not, but no one could tell them so. It's unfortunate that in some, learning can promote closed-mindedness to anything different; this is not understanding, it is religion.

So when I hear people use words like "There is no other possibility", "It cannot be any other way", etc, it renews my commitment to avoid this quicksand-like trap. These are words that slam shut the door of further learning.

[nicbrahms]

I know its annoying as hell, I mean why can't people just agree with me, after all as far as I am concerned I am second only to the bible, and sometimes I question the validity of the bible.

Oh well, we live and hope others learn.

Tee hee

[Federer]

Originally Posted by nicbrahms

I know its annoying as hell, I mean why can't people just agree with me, after all as far as I am concerned I am second only to the bible, and sometimes I question the validity of the bible.

Oh well, we live and hope others learn.

Tee hee

You know friendly spirit,

I have followed your posts. but i don't think bolded lines were your words. After that was completely from your heart.

[Eirrikr]

The Truth is that there is Only One I.

Hence, parsimoniously:

I is always right.
I is always wrong.

This proves that I is The One and Only Paradox.

Peace,

Ik

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

CR, opinions are like buttholes. Everyone has one, and they are usually full of crap.

Anyways, when someone writes a response like that it's more about them than the person they are responding to. Lately I am starting to realize that everyone is talking to themselves talking to projections of other people who are also talking to themselves talking to projections of the people projecting them.

It's a miracle any communication occurs at all, and I'm sure most real communication is psychic, not verbal. Because words are pretty effing useless.

[zeitgeist]

I would rewrite your threat a little ...

You are right and I am silent ...

[nicbrahms]

Originally Posted by zeitgeist

I would rewrite your threat a little ...

You are right and I am silent ...

Say what?

[zeitgeist]

Originally Posted by nicbrahms

Say what?

If people exchange opinions you cannot help being quit - the spiritual path travelers share insights instead.

[jacare]

Of course there is no absolute black and white. There are as many perspectives as there are people.

That being said, there are courses of actions that are known and proven, and lead people to the results they say they want.

I'll give an example: Money
Lots of people here would contend you can go into an alpha state, and visualize money coming into your life, and it will just appear. Lots of people do that, and no money at all appears. They are not yet that advanced. So I disagree with the advice. I say start a profitable business and/or get a high paying job, while you visualize large amounts of money. Then you get people starting businesses that are "non-starters" for most i.e. SEO and blogging. Again, here is where we can be absolute and disagree, in the hopes of helping people and getting them started on the right foot.

So disagreement and having uncertainty are a way to teach people who aren't getting the result they want, because they are not going about it in a way that is working. They are by definition, well, wrong.

[alexplatups]

Originally Posted by jacare

Of course there is no absolute black and white. There are as many perspectives as there are people.

absolute black is one distinction, absolute white is another distinction, and
every perspective of every person is simply more distinctions, the majority
of these are distinct/different from one another.

...if two perspectives are absolutely the same...they are not distinct/different
and thus one distinction (but, this is very unlikely).

[alexplatups]

Originally Posted by curiouslyrandom

Something that catches my eye while reading through many of the threads on this forum is the absolute certainty by some posters that they are the epitome of correct information, and anyone who disagrees with them is either a) stupid, b) misinformed, c) going straight to hell, or d) all of the above.

It's painful to read those responses. It really is, because it shows how some people shut down and will not accept any opinion other than their own. And you know what? There are over 6 billion different opinions in the world on any topic you can think of. That makes for a wide range of right and wrong.

Shades of gray, people. Lots and lots of shades of gray. In other words, nothing is as black and white as it may seem.

...this is because you are not making a distinction between opinion and
personal experience. There are topics where a person is writing about
his/her experience, and when someone tries to give opinions about that,
or argue about that...it can get absurd.

...but the interesting thing is why are you experiencing pain reading
any kind of responses?

Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi...pretty much nailed it when it comes to opinions.

Why would someone experience pain about an opinion, even if someone
was ignoring what others think, and kept driving his/her opinion?

It is probably because, as I wrote above, you are not seeing the difference
between opinion, and the description of an experience that someone is
trying to communicate using words.

And, when this happens, it is also possible that you are not seeing the
difference between the description of an experience, and the experience
itself, and these are two completely two different things.

Since you didn't write any example at all, and just wrote that:

the absolute certainty by some posters that they are the epitome of correct
information, and anyone who disagrees with them is either a) stupid, b)
misinformed, c) going straight to hell, or d) all of the above.

...I will have to observe this as you making an ASSUMPTION, and stating
your opinion, and a conceptual interpretation of your perception.

...and don't really understand how you saw that this TOPIC fits in with this
Spirituality, Consciousness, & Awareness sub-forum.

...the tone of your whole post is based on you making an assumption and
taking things personally...because if you didn't do these two things, you
wouldn't feel any PAIN and wouldn't write this useless post, or would have
written it in another, more appropriate place on this forum.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by alexplatups

....if you didn't do these two things, you
wouldn't feel any PAIN and wouldn't write this useless post...

"useless"? If it were useless, why would you respond to it? I suspect you may be having a bit of an ego reaction there, alex.

I don't think a person's self-expression is ever useless.

[alexplatups]

Originally Posted by Angela

"useless"? If it were useless, why would you respond to it? I suspect you may be having a bit of an ego reaction there, alex.
I don't think a person's self-expression is ever useless.

...everyone in a forum is having an ego reaction, since we are thinking, and
this in itself implies using our self-mind. I responded to it, to point out its
uselessness...and to point out why the OP was experiencing PAIN

...which means I was trying to point to what is causing it!

...and by useless, I pointed out that it's useless in this sub-forum, because
I don't see that this sub-forum is about discussing how you experience
pain that you feel about assumptions and taking things personally.

...plus it was posted without giving any "example" just saying that I feel
pain because "some" people are not listening to opinions...blah...blah...blah

...this basically means that what the OP wrote could mean that all posts
that Steve Pavlina writes, are posts where Steve Pavlina is absolutely certain
that he is the epitome of correct information, and anyone who disagrees with
him is either a) stupid, b) misinformed, c) going straight to hell, or d) all of the above.

...this can easily be interpreted in this way, and this is WHY it is useless, and
you as a mod, should have seen this distinction. It is not self-expression, it is
more or less "sloppy writing"...lol...that just opens up a can of worms, and leads
to more assumptions...instead of clarity...okay?

...but maybe I'm wrong, and it is a very "useful" thread, and can help us all
become more spiritual, conscious, and aware.

...as I pointed out in my self vs no self thread...distinctions are what create
reality, and what create clarity, and I didn't see a distinction being made in
the original post...I just saw a 100% assumption in relation to MANY OF THE
THREADS on this forum. (this bolded part is WHAT was written in the original
post, in case you didn't read it.)

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by curiouslyrandom

Something that catches my eye while reading through many of the threads on this forum is the absolute certainty by some posters that they are the epitome of correct information, and anyone who disagrees with them is either a) stupid, b) misinformed, c) going straight to hell, or d) all of the above.

It's painful to read those responses. It really is, because it shows how some people shut down and will not accept any opinion other than their own. And you know what?

I agree it is helpful and ideal to be open-minded, to have a willingness to learn, to drop off old beliefs that turn out to be inaccurate, to question things at times, especially ourselves.

On the other hand, sometimes it is good to shut down other people's opinions. For example, nobody could ever convince me that torturing a human infant for fun would be a good idea. I wouldn't even entertain such a person. They are flat-out a) stupid and b) misinformed.

It's like they say... If you're too open-minded, your brains will fall out.

[ChrisL]

CuriouslyRandom - Reminds me of the famous phrase "Would I rather be right or happy?" Thanks for bringing this up. I've noticed the same thing and have just recently mentioned it on the forum.

It seems to me that when we were kids, we started trading our authenticity for a need to be right - swapped our internal for external validation, wanting to be approved of, accepted by others, belong. With our indoctrination in school, culture, family, it doesn't suprise me.

And the need to be right can go very deep and be very subtle, especially around people who have had psychological/spiritual background, because our jargon can be used to hide/mask our need to be right. I've watched people agrue even though they know they are right, and even when the facts don't support it.

I've spent years delving into this, not just for myself, but to help others see and accept themselves, and just yesterday I caught myself in a need to be right with someone on this forum. ha! Well, at least I'm catching it when it happens so the damage is less. I feel so strongly about this, that part of my work is to bring us back to our authentic selves so that we have a more effortless life in every way - relationships, career, everything.

I feel that the need to be right is at the heart of all arguments, conflicts, many relationship break ups, religious conflicts, and wars. I've noticed that the more I fully accept and acknowledge myself, and the more I can see everyone and everything as sacred, the less I need others to agree with me. In fact, the less I perceive something as a compliment or an insult.

But in the spirit of this thread....I'm willing to be wrong about all of that.

Thanks again for posting this thread!

[James81]

Is it even possible to have a fully open mind?

Even someone who entertains opinions outside their own has still made the decision to have an open mind, which is a closed off opinion, especially if you criticize other people for not being as open as you.

Its kind of like that athiest quote that says they just believe in one less god than christians. Perhaps those people are just not open on one less issue than you.

[alexplatups]

...many people don't really grasp that "knowing" is not an opinion, belief, conviction,
concept, emotion, feeling, or anything else for that matter.

...there is nothing that we actually "know" for-itself and as-itself

...we only perceive what something is in relation to something else, and this
is not "knowing" what something "is."

...we can make clear distinctions, but we can't really know anything.

...asking a question "how do you know...what you know?" -- until you reach
the answer "I don't know how I know what I know" basically shows that while
we think we know something...in reality we "believe" we know something

...and these are two different things!

...even the question, of, "how do you know that you exist?" when taken
to the end, the answer is "I don't actually know, how I know that I exist"
...I just do!...lol

...the majority of people never ask HOW do they know, and this is why they
think they know something

[Angela]

I'm right and you're amphibolous!

I'm right and you're sunfast!

I'm right and you're butch!

I'm right and you're covered with one or more layers of flat platelike cells!


I love Mad Libs.

[curiouslyrandom]

Huh. Writing a post before I crash for the night is perhaps not always the wisest thing to do. I could have phrased things a little more clearly. I apologize. I was very tired at the time and my communication filter shuts off around 9 PM.

"Many" was too strong a word. I'd just finished reading several posts where replies had contained the opinions that were stated as fact, and it bothers me when people do that. I was raised to be a fact-checker, and that's what I do. If I don't feel I can win an argument with facts to back me up, I generally won't get into it.

The replies that bothered me so much were phrased in such a way as to make the poster feel like an idiot, saying "I'm right and you are wrong, therefore you are going to hell, as are all these other people who don't understand the TRUTH." I find that to be offensive. Why? Because I hold my own opinions, of course. And quite frankly, making someone feel bad about something they came here asking advice for is pretty cruel and petty IMO.

I'm not saying people can't have differing opinions, just don't shove them down throats. That's all.

[inri]

Originally Posted by curiouslyrandom

Something that catches my eye while reading through many of the threads on this forum is the absolute certainty by some posters that they are the epitome of correct information, and anyone who disagrees with them is either a) stupid, b) misinformed, c) going straight to hell, or d) all of the above.

It's painful to read those responses. It really is, because it shows how some people shut down and will not accept any opinion other than their own. And you know what? There are over 6 billion different opinions in the world on any topic you can think of. That makes for a wide range of right and wrong.

Shades of gray, people. Lots and lots of shades of gray. In other words, nothing is as black and white as it may seem.

..."shades of gray," love it...I wrote a song with that title many years ago and this term has served as a motto of sorts for me ever since.

imo, those who see life in terms of black and white are those who are overly attached to the idea of being right, correct and in general to knowing the absolute truth (which they are absolutely sure exists!).

These folks get threatened when others see things differently because it threatens their own convictions.....and within a belief system that says 'ultimate truth' exists and that it's of the utmost importance to find it, it can feel incredibly scary to be floundering between the perception of knowing and not knowing.

personally when I finally fully embraced the fact that my beliefs are just that....MY beliefs, and that I just might change them at any given time..... and that no one else needed to accept the beliefs that I am choosing for them to be 'okay' to hold, it was an immense relief.

An attachment to 'being right' and to having others acknowledge our 'rightness' is a state of being, imo that can cause unnecessary strife.

In a forum such as this, the fine line between stating opinions as personal beliefs and stating them as undisputable 'truth' or facts is a fine one.....the difference often lies in the subtleties of phrasing.

The following is MY truth regarding the issue of truth: Truth is in the eye of the beholder. It is a concept that can have us spinning circles if we feel the need to defend our version of it. The belief in a universal ultimate truth often indicates an attachment to have all the answers nailed down. I don't think as physical beings we're meant or equipt to have ALL the answers...if An answer to all questions does actually exists!...lol...just MY opinion.

[alexplatups]

Originally Posted by inri

..."shades of gray," love it...I wrote a song with that title many years ago and this term has served as a motto of sorts for me ever since.

imo, those who see life in terms of black and white are those who are overly attached to the idea of being right, correct and in general to knowing the absolute truth (which they are absolutely sure exists!).

These folks get threatened when others see things differently because it threatens their own convictions.....and within a belief system that says 'ultimate truth' exists and that it's of the utmost importance to find it, it can feel incredibly scary to be floundering between the perception of knowing and not knowing.

personally when I finally fully embraced the fact that my beliefs are just that....MY beliefs, and that I just might change them at any given time..... and that no one else needed to accept the beliefs that I am choosing for them to be 'okay' to hold, it was an immense relief.

An attachment to 'being right' and to having others acknowledge our 'rightness' is a state of being, imo that can cause unnecessary strife.

In a forum such as this, the fine line between stating opinions as personal beliefs and stating them as undisputable 'truth' or facts is a fine one.....the difference often lies in the subtleties of phrasing.

The following is MY truth regarding the issue of truth: Truth is in the eye of the beholder. It is a concept that can have us spinning circles if we feel the need to defend our version of it. The belief in a universal ultimate truth often indicates an attachment to have all the answers nailed down. I don't think as physical beings we're meant or equipt to have ALL the answers...if An answer to all questions does actually exists!...lol...just MY opinion.

there are a few DISTINCTIONS

...that I have to make here: absolute truth can't be known, it can only
BE EXPERIENCED.

...and this is a very, very, very important distinction!

...which basically means that an Absolute Truth (which includes everything,
and why it is called ABSOLUTE) can't be described with words, because
language and the words that we use when we communicate are relative
to other words, and in addition to this, there are many different meanings
for each word, and many different dictionaries have different meanings,
and each person has his/her own conceptions, opinions, beliefs, convictions,

...and this makes it IMPOSSIBLE to describe or to know Absolute Truth.

...plus I would love to see a quote from this forum where someone has
written that he/she KNOWS the Absolute Truth.

...and assumption or interpretation by you obviously doesn't count, because

imo, those who see life in terms of black and white are those who are overly attached to the idea of being right, correct and in general to knowing the absolute truth (which they are absolutely sure exists!).

These folks get threatened when others see things differently because it threatens their own convictions.....and within a belief system that says 'ultimate truth' exists and that it's of the utmost importance to find it, it can feel incredibly scary to be floundering between the perception of knowing and not knowing.

this statement right there, means that you DON'T KNOW, but you are simply
assuming that you know that they know.

...so you are basically saying that you don't know that you only have an
opinion about it...don't you think that is a little strange?

...you write that IMO...and then you write that in general that these people
that you have an opinion about KNOW the absolute truth, and that they
are ABSOLUTELY SURE that it exists!

...don't you find that having an opinion about what others know and are absolutely
sure about kind of pointless? Why don't you ask them right out about it, why have
an opinion about it...and leave it at that? Especially if you write so many words
about it, and actually don't know if they think they know, or if you are simply
ASSUMING that they know.

...either way, most likely you will not find this kind of statement in this forum
and because of that, what you wrote most likely is an ASSUMPTION without
any real basis or evidence to back it up with!

The following is MY truth regarding the issue of truth: Truth is in the eye of the beholder. It is a concept that can have us spinning circles if we feel the need to defend our version of it. The belief in a universal ultimate truth often indicates an attachment to have all the answers nailed down. I don't think as physical beings we're meant or equipt to have ALL the answers...if An answer to all questions does actually exists!...lol...just MY opinion.

...your truth? Truth is something that is not false, something that is known
for 100%! Truth can't be a concept, even by definition. The belief in a
universal ultimate truth...is a BELIEF in a universal ultimate truth...it is not
the truth itself. If this is your opinion...then it is your opinion...and it doesn't
matter if it is about the truth or Marry Poppins.

...something close to the truth is that we "don't" know anything...actually,
and not that we do. If you think you know something, anything, HOW do
you know that you know it? There is no answer to this, because we as humans
simply don't know HOW we know...which basically points toward an interesting
realization...that we are living in a state of not-knowing, and are confusing
our thoughts, opinions, beliefs, convictions...etc...with knowing.

"shades of gray," love it...I wrote a song with that title many years ago and this term has served as a motto of sorts for me ever since.

there are no shades of gray...by the way...there are only distinctions, and
a shade of gray...is one of them

...and maybe your MOTTO explains why you write what you write, and in the
way that you write it, and it is quite possible if you started using distinction
instead of that motto...your writing would be much more congruent.

[inri]

Originally Posted by alexplatups

there are a few DISTINCTIONS

...that I have to make here: absolute truth can't be known, it can only
BE EXPERIENCED.

...and this is a very, very, very important distinction!

...which basically means that an Absolute Truth (which includes everything,
and why it is called ABSOLUTE) can't be described with words, because
language and the words that we use when we communicate are relative
to other words, and in addition to this, there are many different meanings
for each word, and many different dictionaries have different meanings,
and each person has his/her own conceptions, opinions, beliefs, convictions,

...and this makes it IMPOSSIBLE to describe or to know Absolute Truth.

...plus I would love to see a quote from this forum where someone has
written that he/she KNOWS the Absolute Truth.

...and assumption or interpretation by you obviously doesn't count, because



this statement right there, means that you DON'T KNOW, but you are simply
assuming that you know that they know.

...so you are basically saying that you don't know that you only have an
opinion about it...don't you think that is a little strange?

...you write that IMO...and then you write that in general that these people
that you have an opinion about KNOW the absolute truth, and that they
are ABSOLUTELY SURE that it exists!

...don't you find that having an opinion about what others know and are absolutely
sure about kind of pointless? Why don't you ask them right out about it, why have
an opinion about it...and leave it at that? Especially if you write so many words
about it, and actually don't know if they think they know, or if you are simply
ASSUMING that they know.

...either way, most likely you will not find this kind of statement in this forum
and because of that, what you wrote most likely is an ASSUMPTION without
any real basis or evidence to back it up with!



...your truth? Truth is something that is not false, something that is known
for 100%! Truth can't be a concept, even by definition. The belief in a
universal ultimate truth...is a BELIEF in a universal ultimate truth...it is not
the truth itself. If this is your opinion...then it is your opinion...and it doesn't
matter if it is about the truth or Marry Poppins.

...something close to the truth is that we "don't" know anything...actually,
and not that we do. If you think you know something, anything, HOW do
you know that you know it? There is no answer to this, because we as humans
simply don't know HOW we know...which basically points toward an interesting
realization...that we are living in a state of not-knowing, and are confusing
our thoughts, opinions, beliefs, convictions...etc...with knowing.



there are no shades of gray...by the way...there are only distinctions, and
a shade of gray...is one of them

...and maybe your MOTTO explains why you write what you write, and in the
way that you write it, and it is quite possible if you started using distinction
instead of that motto...your writing would be much more congruent.

We see things differently Alex and that is truly okay.

I'm personally not a believer in 'absolute truth.'

I don't see how we can ever be completely free of our perceptions as long as we're inhabiting a physical body...even beyond.....imo, we cannot ever completely escape the parameters of our physical mind...even if it may seem so at times. Therefore, we can never be completely sure that any 'ultimate truth' we can believe we've arrived at through experience, is really 'true' or not. Just my opinion...for the time being. I'm not overly attached to having my point of view be 'true.' Perhaps next week I'll change my mind.

The entire human experience is a compelling a one. I've had dreams where I could have swore I was having a real experience and encountering a 'real' truth...then I woke up.

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by inri

The entire human experience is a compelling a one. I've had dreams where I could have swore I was having a real experience and encountering a 'real' truth...then I woke up.

I had a similar experience.

While huffing nitrous. LOL. Everyone comes out of whippit dreams saying 'I Know! I know the TRUTH!"

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

On that note, I'm right, and you're high on laughing gas!!
lol

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by curiouslyrandom

Something that catches my eye while reading through many of the threads on this forum is the absolute certainty by some posters that they are the epitome of correct information, and anyone who disagrees with them is either a) stupid, b) misinformed, c) going straight to hell, or d) all of the above.

It's painful to read those responses. It really is, because it shows how some people shut down and will not accept any opinion other than their own. And you know what? There are over 6 billion different opinions in the world on any topic you can think of. That makes for a wide range of right and wrong.

Shades of gray, people. Lots and lots of shades of gray. In other words, nothing is as black and white as it may seem.

Well said.

What many people don't get is that there is no ultimate truth, there are just viewpoints.

The truth can't be contained within words. Words are just weak attempts to simulate reality can can never be true. But some people don't get that. *Their* words are the ultimate truth and if you don't believe it, you are *wrong*.

Thank god people who are *wrong* aren't burnt at the stake anymore

[stealth87]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

Well said.

What many people don't get is that there is no ultimate truth, there are just viewpoints.

Doesn't this then become the ultimate 'truth'? The statement that there are many viewpoints and individual 'truths'?

Curious as to what you think about that.

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by stealth87

Doesn't this then become the ultimate 'truth'? The statement that there are many viewpoints and individual 'truths'?

Curious as to what you think about that.

My viewpoint that there is no ultimate truth... is a viewpoint

[dream]

"I'm right and you're (fill in the blank)"

You can be right as long as I can stay beautiful.
Actually you are right about this thread.

[alexplatups]

It's ironic but me, stealth87, and moonshine are saying the same thing over
and over and over and over. And still, the people that are defending their
"self-conceptual-viewpoint" by the stuff they are posting keep pointing to
one simple fact...that they are not grasping one fundamental principle.

This principle is "distinction." There IS an ENORMOUS difference between
everything that is OUT THERE (as moonshine likes to put it) in the OBJECTIVE
REALITY, and what is IN THERE, in a human being's subjective reality, or what
is really his/her interpretation of this objective reality.

This interpretation provides meaning to your "false-self/ego" by relating
whatever is perceived, and giving MEANING to this perception in relation
to this false-self/ego!

This false-self/ego is always asking the question: "what does this MEAN in
relation to ME???"

This by the way includes what is perceived in the objective
reality (out there) and also what is perceived inside the "self-mind" itself,
which includes concepts, beliefs, opinions, assumptions, VIEWPOINTS, etc.

If you can't or don't want to GRASP the difference between objective reality,
or WHAT IS, and your interpretation of this objective reality (what is) then
you will live your life with a totally distorted perception.

The consequences of this distorted perception is that you will think that you
can change "objective reality" with your thoughts, beliefs, assumptions, etc.

...and this is IMPOSSIBLE. To change something in the objective world, you
have to actually go out there and manipulate objective reality DIRECTLY, or
send someone to do that for you, which in the end will be the same thing,
but done with another person's hands or robot's hands, or whatever.

...the manipulation of objective reality can't be done "inside" your mind, by
creating a different viewpoint, belief, assumption, viewpoint, etc. You have
to add an additional ELEMENT of "manipulating" this object in the objective
reality in some way.

...in the end, I would like to say that if you are not aware of the distinction
between "objective reality" that is OUT THERE as-itself, and for-itself, and
not for-YOU...lol...and your interpretation of this objective reality, then you
will be living in your mind, and obviously will be defending this position,
because it is this "self-mind/ego" is doing the defending of itself.

...since the self-mind/ego is a survival mechanism, all it can do is try to
survive, and this is why this viewpoint...EVERYONE is right in their own way
is so popular. But this is folly.

You might be right in your own mind, in your subjective perception of the
objective reality. But, if you don't make the distinction and don't know the
difference between objective reality as it is, and your perception/interpretation
of this objective reality, you will be like a two year
old that thinks that he is the Sole Creator of objective reality.

...and objective reality (parents, teachers, world) will always let you know
when your perception of objective reality is WRONG.

...so yes, if you are not perceiving objective reality as it is, you are wrong
in your perception/interpretation of this objective reality.

...if you think a pit-bull (objective reality) that is not YOURS is a cute pug
(subective interpretation of objective reality) and you go try to play around
with it, objective reality will let you know really quick that you are wrong
in your ASSESSMENT of it.

So yes, when it comes to making a distinction about objective reality, and
the interpretation of this objective reality, if you don't understand the
difference in your assessment of these two seperate "things" than you
are WRONG in your assessment...because there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE.

...and this is the major point of what is being made by me, stealth87, and
Moonshine, and what is being denied by the people that are denying this!

and for anyone that doesn't know, there is even a movie about me, so
this completely proves that I am always RIGHT !!!



...thanks to Monk for making the image and posting it on this site.