Present Moment Awareness...not an easy practice!

[alexplatups]

Well, I'm done with my self vs. no-self thread, and figured I'd start this
new one. The topic of the last thread was about the core of who we
really are, and because of this, my personal ego tried to seriously
defend my positions and my world views. There was some excellent
content in that thread, and many people contributed to making that
thread a hot one

self vs. no-self...what do you think?

that's the thread, just in case anyone will be interested in checking it out,
but take into account, I am not posting or answering questions in it.

The topic of The Present Moment Awareness (NOW) is obviously nothing
new, but it is the obvious things that we tend to take for granted and
sometimes overlook some very interesting things.

Anyway, as far as the present moment, from my personal observations and
experiences, if one truly lives in the present moment, then he/she will not
and cannot experience fear, anger, or desires. Obviously there are many other
things that will not be experienced, but these three are enough to start this
thread, and they're something the majority of folks experience on a regular basis.

Okay, let's start with #1-fear. Two of the primary components of fear is the
possibility of a future and the unwillingness to have a certain experience.

Think about anything you fear, and you will see that first of all, you are
fearing that a certain scenario will occur in the future, and second that
you are not willing to experience that scenario.

This basically means, if you are aware that there is only the Present Moment,
and hopefully most people are aware of this absolute fact, and you are
really willing to do what you fear...then the fear will vanish.

Now, with #2-anger, it is the opposite, it is based on something that happened
in the past and something that brought you a lot of pain, and plus it
pointed to the fact that you are incapable in some way.

If you felt the pain completely, there would be no reason to feel the anger,
and if you were aware that it happened in the past, and that the past is
over, you also would have no need to be angry.

So anger is basically a regeneration of a sense of incapacity through a
destructive intent or feeling-reaction.

Take away the past, or completely feel the pain without denying it, and
anger vanishes completely. Also, if you didn't feel the sense of inacapacity
you wouldn't feel the anger in the first place, even if you felt tried to
repress the pain, or lived completely in the past. Take any of the components
out of the structure...and it falls apart completely.

Now, last but not least, #3-desire. Desire is also based on the possibility of
a future, similar to fear, but its primary component is an assessment of the
fact that something is missing in the present moment. Obviously there is
a feeling of separation between the object of desire and your "self" and
this is what causes the pain.

The interesting thing is that the feeling-sensation of imagined pleasure of
getting the desired object...masks the pain-suffering that you experience
as you feel the separation between what you desire and the present
moment reality.

Just like with fear and anger, if you take away one or all of the components,
the desire "itself," and the suffering that it causes would vanish.

Just in case someone doesn't know the distinction between desire and
intent/want, they are not the same thing. Whatever you intend/want is
what you actually do, while desire is what you imagine you want in the
future, and most of the time, you don't take any action toward

Well, that's enough for the beginning of this thread, and interesting to hear
what have your experiences been with these three emotions/activities.

And by the way, if you have ever observed them closely like I have, you
would have seen an interesting thing, and that is that these emotions/activities
are caused by us, and NOT by the circumstances around us.

[positive power]

I do like the idea of living in the moment but practicalities of life and being bombarded with images and day to day trivia which must be dealt with makes it hard for me to not feel fears. The 'things' around us are neutral props. We asign the meaning to them, it is from us and the actual incident for example has no meaning until we engage with it. This is all good because we can change our reality by interacting differently with our environment and living more from moment to moment. However, I do think negative emotion will naturally occur and I have been reading how it needs to be faced or it will persist so how then can we live in that moment. ??

[Excellent Lodestar]

A few weeks ago I had a 24hr "stomach flu"

At one point when I was hurling my guts out I realized:" When I'm puking into the commode, I'm totally focused in the now"...Feeling a wave rise from my stomach out into the bowl...and I'm totally here, not thinking of the girl who smiled at me last week, not thinking about tomorrows baseball game...I'm HERE,chunks and all.Nothing else seems to matter.

There I was, an "enlightened" master with drool running off my face.

DEEP

[alexplatups]

Originally Posted by positive power

I do like the idea of living in the moment but practicalities of life and being bombarded with images and day to day trivia which must be dealt with makes it hard for me to not feel fears. The 'things' around us are neutral props. We asign the meaning to them, it is from us and the actual incident for example has no meaning until we engage with it. This is all good because we can change our reality by interacting differently with our environment and living more from moment to moment. However, I do think negative emotion will naturally occur and I have been reading how it needs to be faced or it will persist so how then can we live in that moment???

...the present moment is an absolute truth...meaning that the present moment
is all there is and there is nothing except the present moment. This has to be
realized, mostly through your own observation and contemplation.

...for example, just think for yourself, have you "ever" been anywhere else
than in the present moment? Obviously the answer is no! Why?

...because even when you remember something that is fixed in your memory,
you do it in the present moment, and when you imagine something happening
in the future, you are doing it in the present moment.

...this is a realization that is very easily by simply observing and contemplating
about your current experience, in other words, where you are right now.

Now just think, and realize that you will never be anywhere else except
in the present moment. Even if you sit on a ray of light travelling at the
speed of light, wherever you will be, will still be the present moment
for you. Since this truth is "absolute" it can't be any other way.

This realization will make you "realize" this truth, and will help you to get
free from fear, anger, and desires...and will allow you to take action
without any suffering or struggles!

...but this has to be personally realized through observing your own personal
experience of life, and contemplating on this. This is a very easy process,
and the key to true freedom.

[alexplatups]

Originally Posted by Excellent Lodestar

A few weeks ago I had a 24hr "stomach flu"

At one point when I was hurling my guts out I realized:" When I'm puking into the commode, I'm totally focused in the now"...Feeling a wave rise from my stomach out into the bowl...and I'm totally here, not thinking of the girl who smiled at me last week, not thinking about tomorrows baseball game...I'm HERE,chunks and all.Nothing else seems to matter.

There I was, an "enlightened" master with drool running off my face.

DEEP

...and how was it? were you able to stay in the present moment, or were
you pulled into either the past or future by your self-identity?

[Placebo23]

@ alexplatups

I would like to thank you for bringing theses threads into my and others attention. You have a way with words.
Thank you

Originally Posted by alexplatups

...

[Maguru]

I do think we overly complicate issues with our grand intellects so I decided to look at the present moment or the power of now from a different perspective.

What if it simply means to have presence of mind in the moment and during our experience? That is to be none reactive from past experiences and be mindful of what is now.

[alexplatups]

Originally Posted by Maguru

I do think we overly complicate issues with our grand intellects so I decided to look at the present moment or the power of now from a different perspective.

What if it simply means to have presence of mind in the moment and during our experience? That is to be none reactive from past experiences and be mindful of what is now.

wow...Paula...you really lost me on that one. The present moment has nothing
to do with mind, self, intellect, or anything else. It just simply what "is."

the most basic principle of the present moment => "is...is"

...what we "perceive" is NOT the Present Moment.

...what we perceive is ALWAYS the present moment from the past...there
are no exceptions. This means that the tree that you are perceiving is there,
in the Present Moment, but your perception only sees what was there a few
moments before. This is why, in reality perception is sort of an illusion.

...the reason for this is very simple, we can't perceive the present moment,
we can only be conscious of it. It is not a thing that can be perceived,
because it is an absolute...like consciousness itself.

...to explain this with words...the best that I can...here is what has to be
grasped...the present moment is PRIMARY...perception is SECONDARY, and
this is why we are ALWAYS perceiving whatever we perceive what was there
a few moments before.

There is no doubt that you can experience the Present Moment, because
as a consiousness/being you are existing in it, but the self-mind has to
interpret, and create meaning, and this takes a few moments...lol

...if you are directly conscious of the Present Moment then you can
definitely experience it, but this can't be done with the self-mind/intellect,
it has to be done directly by Consciousness/Being itself.

...and yes, this means that you are this Consciousness/Being, just in case
you are wondering about it...but this is another topic...lol

[alexplatups]

Originally Posted by Placebo23

I would like to thank you for bringing theses threads into my and others attention. You have a way with words.

glad this information could be of some help, and even though wise people are
mostly silent, which pretty much says that I'm not wise, still, I like to share
information about my experiences in life, and truly hope that it points to the
things that can help people to understand themselves a little deeper than
the distinctions that were programmed into us by our culture/society.

I guess I always wanted to uncover the truth behind the human condition,
and this is where my awareness lives most of the time. I am aware many
things I write sound crazy and arrogant, but I'm just trying to put into
words what I have experienced in the last 26 years of searching for the truth.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by alexplatups

wow...Paula...you really lost me on that one. The present moment has nothing
to do with mind, self, intellect, or anything else. It just simply what "is."

the most basic principle of the present moment => "is...is"

...what we "perceive" is NOT the Present Moment.

...what we perceive is ALWAYS the present moment from the past...there
are no exceptions.

This means that the tree that you are perceiving is there,
in the Present Moment, but your perception only sees what was there a few
moments before. This is why, in reality perception is sort of an illusion.

...the reason for this is very simple, we can't perceive the present moment,
we can only be conscious of it. It is not a thing that can be perceived,
because it is an absolute...like consciousness itself.

Yes, I'm not talking about perception either.

...to explain this with words...the best that I can...here is what has to be
grasped...the present moment is PRIMARY...perception is SECONDARY, and
this is why we are ALWAYS perceiving whatever we perceive what was there
a few moments before.

There is no doubt that you can experience the Present Moment, because
as a consiousness/being you are existing in it, but the self-mind has to
interpret, and create meaning, and this takes a few moments...lol

...if you are directly conscious of the Present Moment then you can
definitely experience it, but this can't be done with the self-mind/intellect,
it has to be done directly by Consciousness/Being itself.

...and yes, this means that you are this Consciousness/Being, just in case
you are wondering about it...but this is another topic...lol

I take it for granted that we are conscious beings and don't perceive a separate Consciousness or Being.

I'm finding it very difficult to explain what I mean. Generally when I am in the moment, it is due to the experience in that moment, like throwing up into the toilet bowl.

Instead of reacting from previous experience or seeing through a perception of past experience, I can respond naturally to a new experience and it is all totally through presence of mind. There is nowhere else that awareness can show up. I can be totally in the moment where time is not present. I don't have to stop and think because I am fully present.

Most of the time it is not required as I go along doing the mundane and my mind will go wherever I want it to go. Maybe I am speaking about being at one with the mind by always knowing what I am thinking and even redirecting the thoughts to no thoughts, or using my mind to fully focus. Always knowing what I am feeling. Always aware of what I am doing.

I think too much emphasis is on the 'moment' and not enough on 'who we are being' in that moment. There is no power in a moment, the power is in us.
Wherever I go and whatever I experience, I am always here. I am never there.

We would have to be out of our minds to think we can survive without them.

[Psilocybin]

Originally Posted by positive power

I do like the idea of living in the moment but practicalities of life and being bombarded with images and day to day trivia which must be dealt with makes it hard for me to not feel fears. The 'things' around us are neutral props. We asign the meaning to them, it is from us and the actual incident for example has no meaning until we engage with it. This is all good because we can change our reality by interacting differently with our environment and living more from moment to moment. However, I do think negative emotion will naturally occur and I have been reading how it needs to be faced or it will persist so how then can we live in that moment. ??

Anger itself is an emotion and it's not practical to say that we can all be as skilled as the Buddha himself. If you don't experience anger your not human. The best thing to do I guess would be to experience negative emotions like a breeze going through your body. Notice them, but don't let them rule you. This is part of Awareness.

To the OP, you sound like you know everything there is to know on this subject. You seem highly intelligent, I want to know if you're able to live this way of life. Or do you just understand it completely? And do you still struggle being mindful and completely aware of the present moment and your emotions? Also, if yes, then how long have you been practicing mindfulness? But most importantly, do you have any tips or exercises?
I'm a recovering heroin addict and am trying to get my life back into harmony. I get a lot of anxiety and depression due to post acute withdrawal symptoms.

My own research has lead to the conclusion:
Emotional Turmoil (Stuck habits, depression, anxiety, panic, fear, worry, grief, insecurity, anger, resentments, addictive attachments to people, food, DRUGS, alcohol.. etc)
^--- Healing Process Below:
Biologic Healing (With exercise, yoga, qi gong, tai ji, appropriate whole foods, herbal therapy, acupoints.. etc)
AND
Awareness Practices or Quieting the Mind (Silent contemplation, meditation, self-reflection.. etc)

Basically I'm focusing on exercise and awareness. But the awareness allows us to make better food choices, and eat healthy. What do you think of this?

Also, I was reading somewhere that we put a ton of strain on our eyes. With TV, books, computer, cell phones, signs, and all sorts of gadgetry, our eyes are spending too much time in focus mode. I've been practicing how to "soften the gaze" and this has been VERY beneficial for my anxiety. I've had many a panic attack that involved my eyes darting from object to object, almost as if I didn't know what to look at and just feel comfortable, if that makes any sense.

Thank you for this wonderful post, I found it on google and this has brought me to the forums.

[allis1]

living is presence seems very difficult at first, but all interference is derived from the ego. it is counter-productive to try to fight the ego because that would be the ego involved with itself, as it so loves to be. instead, we must try to see from the perspective of awareness. the same awarness that preceeds all thought and manifestation of form. it has always been there and will always be there, patiently observing with non-attachment all we see, hear, feel, etc. once one becomes aware of this awarness and how it underlies and preceeds all, one has found their true identity and freedom. from this pov the thoughts that may arise are noticed but not identifed with or judged in any way, they, like all form, is simply allowed to be exactly as is. the thoughts then quiet with no effort whatsoever besides the observing.

[Psilocybin]

Originally Posted by Excellent Lodestar

A few weeks ago I had a 24hr "stomach flu"

At one point when I was hurling my guts out I realized:" When I'm puking into the commode, I'm totally focused in the now"...Feeling a wave rise from my stomach out into the bowl...and I'm totally here, not thinking of the girl who smiled at me last week, not thinking about tomorrows baseball game...I'm HERE,chunks and all.Nothing else seems to matter.

There I was, an "enlightened" master with drool running off my face.

DEEP

I think this is fairly common as it has happened to me as well! Where did the idea of awareness come from anyway? Probably from people who experienced it suddenly, without having experienced it much before. I can still remember the last time I was sick with the flu. Even though it was years ago. Very rarely are we in a situation where we are actually suffering in the present moment. Since generally most of us are focused on worrying or suffering that when it is actually happening, it can bring us to the present moment. Just a thought, I'm no expert! The reason why I remember it so vividly, or remember anything vividly, is because I was experiencing the present moment. There's never a time when we're not in the present moment anyway, so you might as well get with the program.
This is why I like to snowboard and ride dirtbikes, and why people go rock climbing or bungee jumping or do crazy stuff. Being an instant away from snapping your neck or wiping out brings you back to the present moment, perfect awareness. You hesitate to think and you fail!

[allis1]

Originally Posted by Psilocybin

I think this is fairly common as it has happened to me as well! Where did the idea of awareness come from anyway? Probably from people who experienced it suddenly, without having experienced it much before. I can still remember the last time I was sick with the flu. Even though it was years ago. Very rarely are we in a situation where we are actually suffering in the present moment. Since generally most of us are focused on worrying or suffering that when it is actually happening, it can bring us to the present moment. Just a thought, I'm no expert! The reason why I remember it so vividly, or remember anything vividly, is because I was experiencing the present moment. There's never a time when we're not in the present moment anyway, so you might as well get with the program.
This is why I like to snowboard and ride dirtbikes, and why people go rock climbing or bungee jumping or do crazy stuff. Being an instant away from snapping your neck or wiping out brings you back to the present moment, perfect awareness. You hesitate to think and you fail!

yes. like how time slows down and an unexpected peace prevails in the unavoidable moment before a car accident. acceptance and presence.

[Psilocybin]

Precisely! a buddy of mine was in a car behind a drive-by shooting. He describes it as an experience where time near completely stopped. He said it felt like they were firing into the other car forever. Can't imagine what it would have been like for anyone who was actually in the car though! Although maybe this could just be your adrenaline pumping so hard that you're just 10 seconds ahead of the world and everything that's going on around you, possibly a combination of both. Time goes by really slow when your having a panic attack anyway, and from what I understand there's a lot of adrenaline being pumped during an an attack. But that calming affect just is not there. Now I feel like I'm contradicting myself, anyone care to elaborate? For instance, the first time I ever got on a dirt bike and pushed my limit. I've never been so in-the-zone or lost in the moment before, it was very euphoric. Quite the opposite of a panic attack I'd say. Probably the difference is in the irrational thinking patterns, as opposed to being in a near death situation where you have no time to think.

[alexplatups]

Originally Posted by Psilocybin

Anger itself is an emotion and it's not practical to say that we can all be as skilled as the Buddha himself. If you don't experience anger your not human. The best thing to do I guess would be to experience negative emotions like a breeze going through your body. Notice them, but don't let them rule you. This is part of Awareness.

anger, fear, and desire are emotions/activities, and as you saw in the original
post we are the ones that create the components of these structures, which
basically means if you eliminate any "one" of the elements/components
the whole structure falls apart/disappears

To the OP, you sound like you know everything there is to know on this subject. You seem highly intelligent, I want to know if you're able to live this way of life. Or do you just understand it completely? And do you still struggle being mindful and completely aware of the present moment and your emotions? Also, if yes, then how long have you been practicing mindfulness? But most importantly, do you have any tips or exercises?

...lol...sound is a good word, and no I don't know everything there is to
know on this subject, and I'm definitely not highly intelligent. Yes, I'm able
to live my life in this way, majority of the moments in my life, but since
I do have a self-identity, and it is "conceptual," there are many moments
where the self starts to pay attention to the concepts of past/future and
fear, anger, desire shows up.

But, since I live from a different perspective, I am aware of this when it
happens, and am aware that I am doing this myself. As soon as I focus
my attention back on the Present Moment, these emotions vanish.

The best tips and exercises I can suggest is to read the components of
those three emotions/activities I wrote about, and notice the components
that create the structure of these emotions/activities.

When you do this, you will notice the elements/components that are the
easiest for you to eliminate using your own awareness. So if you fear fear,
become aware that there is only the Present Moment, and that you are
unwilling to do what you fear.

This is not manipulation by the way, but the use of the truth, because if you
become aware of the Present Moment and/or become willing to do what you
fear...the fear will disappear.

I'm a recovering heroin addict and am trying to get my life back into harmony. I get a lot of anxiety and depression due to post acute withdrawal symptoms.

My own research has lead to the conclusion:
Emotional Turmoil (Stuck habits, depression, anxiety, panic, fear, worry, grief, insecurity, anger, resentments, addictive attachments to people, food, DRUGS, alcohol.. etc)
^--- Healing Process Below:
Biologic Healing (With exercise, yoga, qi gong, tai ji, appropriate whole foods, herbal therapy, acupoints.. etc)
AND
Awareness Practices or Quieting the Mind (Silent contemplation, meditation, self-reflection.. etc)

Basically I'm focusing on exercise and awareness. But the awareness allows us to make better food choices, and eat healthy. What do you think of this?

these are all fine, but your primary tool should be your own consciousness
and awareness, and observing what is the true nature of whatever it is you
are struggling with in life!

Also, I was reading somewhere that we put a ton of strain on our eyes. With TV, books, computer, cell phones, signs, and all sorts of gadgetry, our eyes are spending too much time in focus mode. I've been practicing how to "soften the gaze" and this has been VERY beneficial for my anxiety. I've had many a panic attack that involved my eyes darting from object to object, almost as if I didn't know what to look at and just feel comfortable, if that makes any sense.

don't know anything about this!

...in the end, it is very important to grasp that everything that we perceive
in life, what we call REALITY, is manifested through DISTINCTIONS, and in my
original posts, I was only pointing out certain "distinctions" about these three
emotions/activities, and this is why you found the post beneficial, because
these distinctions were very clear.

This is why I recommend to read my thread:

self vs. no-self...what do you think?

and pay attention to the posts where I decribe what DISTINCTION is.

there are many posts by other people in there, and it should be interesting
for you to see how not making clear distinctions, and simply assuming things
makes everything complicated for people.

Good luck, and if you have questions post in this thread, and I will answer
here, because that thread I'm not posting in anymore, and not answering
questions in it.

[alexplatups]

just wanted to put a few posts I have made elsewhere that might be
interesting to some people that are looking to understand how the
Present Moment Awareness and Consciousness/Being...are part of
the one absolute experience we are having

you don't have to apologize...I'm really glad that you make this distinction
yourself, because if you actually observe, you will see that the majority of
the people that look from the point of view like was in the original post,
they are not making this distinction for some reason.

...in other words...reality/truth...and "their interpretation" of the reality/truth
basically means exactly the same thing TO THEM...there is no distinction between
these two things...while it is obvious, at least to me...that the distinction is like
the difference between black and white.

...and this is why the "shades of gray" thing seems to get support also,
while it is also obvious that every shade of grey is also a distinction.

I know there are many times that I have written "distinctions" in this post,
but in the end, the difference between one thing and another is what
creates reality...while our perception/interpretation gives/provides the
meaning to our brain/mind about all the distinctions that our brain/mind
perceives on a moment to moment basis.

...I have written this many time in other threads/posts, and I will repeat it
here once more: Consciousness uses "distinction" as a function for creating
objective and subjective reality. This is a very hard thing for the brain/mind
to grasp, or to be more correct, impossible.

...the reason it is impossible, is because it means that all "distinctions" in the
objective and subjective realities...are manifested by one consciousness, and
it is all ONE EXPERIENCE that is happening now (present moment).

...while there are "many" distinctions, none of them are separate, they are only
different from one another...but the present moment experience is ONE, it is
nondual. So, while it all looks different and SEPARATED, it is actually DISTINCT
and NOT SEPARATED (ONE).

...and this part, is very hard for the brain/mind to grasp because it looks as if it
is separated. But the strangest thing of all, is that it is WE, who are creating
these distinctions, which basically means we are this Consciousness/Being
ourselves. And what is even stranger than that is that the true nature of who
we are is NOTHING/INFINITY...which means no end and no beginning.

...the only thing that is finite...is our self-mind...and because of this, it is impossible
to grasp these things, since the self-mind was designed only for self-survival, and
this can be seen, if you observe how we all do everything possible for our "self" to
survive.

...obviously the "self" is only the attachments/identifications that we make, so whatever
we are attached/identified with is what we will defend and do everything in our power
to make sure these ATTACHMENTS/IDENTIFICATIONS survive!

...this is more or less what I have been trying to point out in the majority
of my posts, and the reason I have been having such a difficult time getting
this across, is because some people don't want to make these very obvious
DISTINCTIONS...because they go against their beliefs/assumptions that
have been programmed into them, and usually are invisible to them, they
just simply confuse these beliefs/assumptions with reality ITSELF!

and this one about the difference between the two different aspects
of ourselves, and why it is important to make a distinction between them:

Here is an easy way to look at what I'm trying to convey:

Imagine that there are two DISTINCT aspects of yourself. One is
what you are originally...or naturally. It is your "Being" in the human
being that you are, the part without pretense, cultural programming,
or any other supplementary process.

The other aspect of yourself is what you have come to know as "your-self,"
the "human part," the self-identity that is created and maintained through
all the beliefs, assumptions, and knowledge you acquired in life.

Since it's all you know (this second aspect) it's not easy to see that this
identification with "your-self" is strictly a SECONDARY process. Your self-identity
is "conceptual;" your Being exists "prior" to concept!

...the primary DISTINCTION between these two parts is that "Self-Knows," "Being-Is"

In this thread, I'm trying to discuss Being, and not the self-identity that
we have created through cultural/societal programming.

This is Consciousness/Being, and to experience this part of ourselves
DIRECTLY...we have to leave all of our programming, beliefs, and
assumptions at the door, and enter the domain that is the true
nature of who we are, always have been, and always will be!

...obviously, we have to pick this self-identity back up, when we
come back from the domain of Being/Consciousness, but can you
imagine the PERSPECTIVE that your "self" will have from then on,
and all the illusions that will simply fall away?

No matter how and when this occurs, it will feel as if an invisible mist
has parted to reveal a genuine glimpse of a simpler and more genuine
self, uncluttered with complications and affectations. This moment is
truly self-validating, since in that instant an undeniably real experience
of ourselves is awakened, and is remembered.

Whether this comes as an inkling or a full-blown awakening, the direction
is always the same, it is toward consciousness/being...what is REAL.

and one more...just for the hell of it, to have some of my posts in one place:

...but as far as my notion that there is nothing, I want to explain what
this means. It is not the nothing that we use in our day to day lives,
which basically points to the fact that there is "no thing" there.

...the nothing I'm pointing toward is the nothing/infinity...which is something
that has no beginning and no end. And, as I pointed out and mentioned in
many of my posts is that this nothing/infinity can't be grasped by the human
mind/intellect...even by mine. It is in the domain of absolutes truths, and
not something that we can comprehend.

...but it is possible to directly experience it, because you, me, and all other
human beings are this nothing/infinity ourselves, right at this very moment.

...this can be observed in many ways, and directly experienced, which are
two distinct experiences in themselves.

...one of the observations is seeing how everything in our perceptions is
distinct from everything else, and that we have the possibility of creating
these distinctions...and then the direct experience of being conscious of
this with your consciousness/being.

...the first experience can be explained, since I am explaining it, the second
experience can only be directly experienced, and can't be put into words,
it is a "sort" of a feeling, but that is not completely correct.

...it is conscious awareness...and it is nothing that can be described with
words. But, by experiencing the things that can be grasped by the self-mind
like the present moment and distinctions can help to directly experience this
"thing" I'm calling consciousness/being "feeling."

...and by the way, the illusion that I'm talking about is real, as in the things
we perceive are real, pain is pain, a tree is a tree, etc., but the foundation
of these distinctions...is nothing/infinity.

...this is the primary nature of all things, the secondary nature is the
distinction-object itself...that we perceive with our senses. The distinction
object is not the distinction itself...it is what distinction puts there as the
distinction-object. I know this stuff is confusing, but when it comes to
talaking about absolutes, there will be plenty of paradoxes.

...and this is why I talk about nothing being there beyond the illusion.

..and this illusion/reality is really there...but it's there because consciousness
and its function "distinction" is putting this "distinction-object" in the place
of where there is really nothing/infinity...and we as humans are perceiving
something there...because we are this consciousness ourselves, and in order
to see "itself" consciousness has to go about it in this weird way.

...since it is one, nondual itself, consciousness has no other way to manifest
anything and to observe it, because it is nothing/infinity and one experience
that is always happening in the present moment and as one experience.

...so while it all sounds crazy as ♥♥♥♥♥...if you simply contemplate about these
things, it is very possible that you will become aware of this also. Everything
points toward this direction, but in order to directly experience this, we
have to experience it as consiousness/being itself...and obsviously the
self-mind stands in the way of this...and not allowing it.

Why? Because the self-mind was designed as a self-survival mechanism,
and not as a mechanism for directly experiencing our true nature.

[stealth87]

Alex I really enjoy the clarity in your posts.

I have noticed that people tend to be most defensive and reactive at the concept of the truth. It's what stops others from looking.

If the word truth was changed for what is, then it would be a lot more digestible and less confrontational.

Truth = what is
Truth is not what YOU think it is

Presence is much more practical and useful after the recognition or distinction of the 'self'. In my experience, I don't have to sit hours at end meditating, because it's just something that is.

Presence is and life is. In moments where habits kick in, simple looking and presence are needed. There's no more need to peel the layers, because the foundation of 'self' is not there as it used to.

[Mato Kinze]

Phew... lots of words for such a simple matter.

Present moment awareness is easy. Every time we allow ourselves to feel a breeze on our face or listen to something happening near us we live in the moment.

Keeping ourselves from losing that connection is the hard part. IMHO.

[alexplatups]

Originally Posted by stealth87

Alex I really enjoy the clarity in your posts.

I have noticed that people tend to be most defensive and reactive at the concept of the truth. It's what stops others from looking.

If the word truth was changed for what is, then it would be a lot more digestible and less confrontational.

Truth = what is
Truth is not what YOU think it is

Presence is much more practical and useful after the recognition or distinction of the 'self'. In my experience, I don't have to sit hours at end meditating, because it's just something that is.

Presence is and life is. In moments where habits kick in, simple looking and presence are needed. There's no more need to peel the layers, because the foundation of 'self' is not there as it used to.

...that might be a good idea, but then it is possible that the same people
will say "how do you know what is?" "this is only your opinion of what is"
...blah...blah...blah

...obviously my writing is only for those people who have come to a realization
that something is "wrong" with the way they are living, and they don't
feel an authenticity in their life, and are looking for the "truth" about
our true nature as a human "being."

...since I don't really need to post in here at all, it is simply something I enjoy
doing once in a while, it will not be long that I will stop posting in this forum.

...this information that I shared comes from the one experience that we
are all one with, and even though we are all distinct...we, as you are aware
yourself...are not separate.

...so after I stop posting for a while, you will be the one left carrying the
flag with the TRUTH written on it...or WHAT IS...or whatever else, and
nothing will change, more or less, the majority will disagree with what is,
because what is...is not digestable for the ego.

[alexplatups]

here is a post from another thread, and in the next post I will post
my answer, this might be interesting for anyone checking out this
thread, since it explains the primary message behind my posts.

Originally Posted by Monk

[B]Thanks for the praise, Alex, and for your clarification in general. As I told you, we almost agree. I just can't share in depth so long as you don't address my second reservation too, not only the first one. You just laughed. You took it lightly. Yes, it's incredibly sarcastic that you announced "This is The Truth" more than The Christ did. And that's why we both laughed at it. But, you seem to have missed the meaning here implied: You, Alex, are more certain of yourself and of your truth than the man believed by 2.1 billion people to be the Holy Son of the Lord God Almighty.

How come?

Who are you, man?

Alex Platups?

Just for the poster.



Do you *see* now what I mean?


Alex, you're a very smart guy who did search everywhere and for so long for the truth and you seem to have found something. But, please pay me your attention: How come The Truth appears more often in your posts than in The Bible? I'm not questioning what you say. Let's suppose it's really the truth. What you say is truly the absolute, supreme, ultimate truth. My question is, how come there were more occasions to state it in your posts than in the Scripture? How come you had to say it more than Jesus did?

We have 3 possibilities:

1- You really care about your fellow humans in the forum. You repeat The Truth over and over again so that we may finally listen. I find this very noble indeed. Seriously. Yet, it implies two false assumptions, or perhaps delusions: The first is your assumption that your own belief is indeed The Truth™, with absolutely no room whatsoever for the possibility that you might be wrong. The second is your assumption that you know the truth, supposedly The Truth™, while no one else does.

2- The second possibility is that you do *not* really believe in this truth. You're in doubt. So you need to just state it as often as possible. You present it to be argued, challenged and finally confirmed, or to be instead beaten and falsified. Either way you'll reach some higher level of belief, and this is all you need, subconsciously of course.

3- You're just irritating everybody. You, now instead very consciously, want to be controversial. You have some agenda that has nothing to do with The Truth™, or any truth.

So before going any further or starting any in-depth, healthy and fruitful discussion, I just need to find out who you are. So far I chose the first possibility. And I think you do. Our next step therefore is, do you admit your false assumptions, Alex? Do you admit that what you say is not necessarily The Truth™? Do you admit that here you have equal peers whose depth, knowledge and visions are as valid as yours, if not more, and that you may therefore rather *learn* from them?

[alexplatups]

and here is my answer to the above post:

First thanks for the IMAGE, really enjoyed it.

...here is a quote of what I wrote in one of the posts:

-----------------------------------------------------------------beginning quote
Imagine that there are two DISTINCT aspects of yourself. One is
what you are originally...or naturally. It is your "Being" in the human
being that you are, the part without pretense, cultural programming,
or any other supplementary process.

The other aspect of yourself is what you have come to know as "your-self,"
the "human part," the self-identity that is created and maintained through
all the beliefs, assumptions, and knowledge you acquired in life.

Since it's all you know (this second aspect) it's not easy to see that this
identification with "your-self" is strictly a SECONDARY process. Your self-identity
is "conceptual;" your Being exists "prior" to concept!

...the primary DISTINCTION between these two parts is that "Self-Knows," "Being-Is"

In relation to the TRUTH, I'm trying to discuss Being, and not the
self-identity that we have created through cultural/societal programming.

This is Consciousness/Being, and to experience this part of ourselves
DIRECTLY...we have to leave all of our programming, beliefs, and
assumptions at the door, and enter the domain that is the true
nature of who we are, always have been, and always will be!

...obviously, we have to pick this self-identity back up, when we
come back from the domain of Being/Consciousness, but can you
imagine the PERSPECTIVE that your "self" will have from then on,
and all the illusions that will simply fall away?

No matter how and when this occurs, it will feel as if an invisible mist
has parted to reveal a genuine glimpse of a simpler and more genuine
self, uncluttered with complications and affectations. This moment is
truly self-validating, since in that instant an undeniably real experience
of ourselves is awakened, and is remembered.

Whether this comes as an inkling or a full-blown awakening, the direction
is always the same, it is toward consciousness/being...what is REAL.
------------------------------------------------------------------------end quote

Monk, the thing is that this is not "my" truth. I don't know the truth, and
the truth is not something that can be known. It is unbelievable for the
self-mind, and will always be unbelievable. I never have written anywhere
that someone should believe this, and in fact have pointed out that this
is not something that should or can be believed with the mind. The truth
is unknowable. And from my perspective there is no "my" truth, or "your"
truth, or "our" truth...there is only...truth...with no add-ons, it stands
all on its own...because it is...what IS.

...obviously, you are assuming that I consider this to be MY truth, because
there is no where in my posts that I write that something is MY truth, and
couldn't write this as my truth. It is my perspective, and this is what I always
write in my posts, but this is much different from saying that something is
MY truth.

...interpretations of my words, and the interpretation of the message behind
my writing...is distinct/different from my words and the message itself.

...so the TRUTH that I write about is not mine, and there are many people
that I can learn something from, but in the end, and I have written this many
times also...we do not "know" anything...none of us, and we can't know
anything, and even Socrates who is considered to have been wise has said:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
The Delphic Oracle said that I was the wisest of all Greeks. It is because I alone
of all Greeks know that I know nothing.

-Socrates
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...so basically Monk, from my perspective, it is not about learning something
from someone, but un-learning all the BS...we have been programmed with,
and simply moving in the direction of simply...BEING...who we truly ARE.

...so the TRUTH that I'm only pointing toward, since I can't know it, or
understand it, or explain it, is what we are before, there was a human
on this planet, and what we will be after there will be no planet.

...it is what IS.

...there is no other way that I can explain it, because all explanations are
concepts, hearsay, i.e. "BS" and this is NOT what is behind my message.

...this has been an experience where I shared what I directly have experienced
and tried my best to put it into words, and if someone is interested in this
maybe they will do something with this information, maybe not.

...but, in the end, this topic of the "absolute truth" or "what is" is not really
something that can be discussed and agreed on, it can only be experienced
directly...and this is why there are so many INTERPRETATIONS of what
I have tried to convey in my posts.

...this will be the last post that I make for a while, because basically, there
is not nothing really left for me to say about this topic, and if someone
wants to directly experience being/consciousness and become totally
conscious of what is nothing/infinity (no beginning/no end) it is possible.

...the reason it is possible, is because we are this nothing/infinity right now
at this very moment...and will always be this nothing/infinity...the only part
of us that is finite/temporary...is the self-mind/ego...and this is why it tries
to do everything in its power to survive...because it either survives or it
perishes...there is no other alternative for the self-mind/ego!

...while being/consciousness...or truth/what is...doesn't have to survive,
doesn't have to persist...because it...IS

...this is-ness is what I have been pointing to...all along, but the part
that I have been using to point is the self-identity/ego, and this part is
temporary/finite and this IS NOT...in other words it is not our true nature
and will vanish and return back to what it truly is...nothing/infinity!

...and the disagreements here with my posts and especially the
interpretations, assumptions, opinions, beliefs, and convictions about
my message have been hapenning on the level of self-mind/ego, and
since every self-mind/ego HAS to survive or perish, since this is what it has
been designed for, it couldn't have been any other way!

...and I don't take this personally, but since I had a mission, I continued
to post and continued to point, and now my mission is over, and this topic
will not be discussed by me anymore.

...so in the end Monk...there is no such thing as My Truth and never has been,
and never will be. There will only be things that point toward the true
nature of what we are, and it can't be any other way...since it always...IS

...and always will BE.

Consciousness, Being, is-ness, Now, all these are the same thing, it is what
can be experienced directly by us, since this is primary, but as soon as
we try to use self-mind language, and the interpretations of our perceptions,
which are secondary...we get what we get...which basically is the
interpretations and assumptions about this domain...to which the self-mind
has no access to.

This is why Being has to be directly experienced by Being, and can't be
turned into a concept that we can discuss in the forums. I wish it was
something we could, because as it is obvious I like to write and communicate,
but it's impossible.

And, even though I knew I would fail from the beginning, I gave it my best
try anyway...because the self-mind/ego wants to survive and not perish,
and this is why it will always PERSIST...until it does perish.

...the funniest thing about our existence as self-mind/egos is that we are
trying so hard, but the reality is that we will not succeed, we will fail, we
are finite/temporary...but we live our lives as if we will live forever.

...and it can't be any other way, because the self-mind/ego is an amazing
program and no matter what we do, it will pull us back into surviving, and
we will continue to run like mice on the wheel chasing the cheese that
we will never catch

P.S. I guesss what I've been trying to say Monk, is not that there is something
to learn from me or from anyone else, but in order to see things as they are/truth
that we have to UNLEARN everything. This sounds like a strange thing to say,
but the fastest way toward accomplishing this is by becoming aware of the fact
that we really don't know anything in the 1st place...that we only believe/assume everything!

...this basically sums up what I tried to convey, hope it will be useful to
someone in some way, good luck, and take care!

Alex Platups

[stealth87]

Adyashanti points exactly to what alex is saying here. Worth checking out.

YouTube - The Experience of No Self!

[alexplatups]

Originally Posted by stealth87

Adyashanti points exactly to what alex is saying here. Worth checking out.

YouTube - The Experience of No Self!

...awesome video, and it's the first time I hear of this guy, and he is really
excellent at explaining the concept of "self" and how it relates everything it
perceives to itself.

[VinceG]

Alex, you need to maybe work on your diction some. You seem to be struggling to convey ideas, saying the same thing over and over, expecting people to have a different reaction to it.

I've learned from experience that if this starts to happen, you should switch it up a little.

[alexplatups]

Originally Posted by VinceG

Alex, you need to maybe work on your diction some. You seem to be struggling to convey ideas, saying the same thing over and over, expecting people to have a different reaction to it.

I've learned from experience that if this starts to happen, you should switch it up a little.

Thanks for your advice VinceG. The thing is that I am not expecting any kind
of reaction. My message is simple, and there is not that much to switch up.

If I don't see a point in posting, if I'm not posting from the perspective that
I currently have. If this perspective changes, and obviously I don't know if
this will or will not happen, then it will happen naturally, and it will look like
I switched it up...as you call it.

But the way it is looking now, it seems I will be posting less and less, since
what I'm trying to point out...is not a very popular topic

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by alexplatups

The thing is that I am not expecting any kind
of reaction.

You say that, but watching you post gives me the opposite impression.

[Solipsist]

Originally Posted by alexplatups

But the way it is looking now, it seems I will be posting less and less, since what I'm trying to point out...is not a very popular topic

This is happening to me, also, and what is likely to happen, as you come to simply accept what is.

[alexplatups]

Originally Posted by VinceG

You say that, but watching you post gives me the opposite impression.

...if you read any of my posts, I point out what I think about beliefs
and assumptions. An impression is a hybrid of these two.

...I post here because I want to exchange information with people
that have directly experienced what I have experienced, and to share
my experiences with those who haven't. Plus I like writing.

...I don't expect anything, because my perspective is that we are not
separate, that this is all simply happening, and while we are distinct, as
human beings...we are not really in control of what we are doing...it just
seems like this to us.

...the reason I believe this, is because I am aware that there is no
separation, that this is all one nondual experience, and we are simply
components/elements of this experience.

...so in the end, I'm doing what I'm doing, because I have no choice,
and no one else has a choice either. Obviously this is a hard thing to
accept, especially if you are living from a perspective of a false-self,
but it is quite easy to see when you are living from the perspective
that I'm living from...which can't be described with words.

...there is nothing to expect, assume, or any impressions, there is only
the one experience that is happening right now, and the foundation of this
experience is nothing/infinity...which you have probably seem in my posts.

...so if there is no beginning and no end (nothing/infinity) then from my
perspective there is only what "is" and nothing else.

...this sounds crazy...but it is none-the-less my perspective and what I have
directly experienced...and obviously in this domain everything simply "happens."