Which came first – God or the Void?

[Cantando]

Some religious texts talk about the void which existed at the beginning when God said “Let there be light”. So, did God (or consciousness) exist separately from the void or was he in fact THE void? I don't know. It's far beyond me to work it out.
Here's an idea – maybe God was the void and at some point he became aware of himself and thus became conscious, then BANG! He exploded his consciousness outwards into an infinite number of separate consciousnesses. The parallel in this physical universe is the cosmic explosion which created all the suns and stars (as in heaven, so below). If we go with this parallel, all the suns and stars are units of God consciousness with the void separating them.
We, as human beings, came into being as sprouts or seeds from our own home sun of consciousness. Each sun of consciousness is God is going through the same process as each of us – seeking and discovering more about himself and his creations. He sends us out as emissaries into the far flung reaches of his kingdom to bring information back to him “to boldly go where no man has gone before”. We can see echoes of this in the great adventures and epics in fiction and non-fiction.
He infinitely expands outwards (into the macrocosm), creating more versions of himself. He also looks into the infinity of himself (the microcosm) at his constantly expanding universe within.
Well, what's all this got to do with the price of fish?
Well, as we journey outwards from our home sun of consciousness, to which we are attached by an umbilical cord, a spiritual lifeline, we travel through the void and hit upon other units of consciousness, by which we have our good and not so good experiences.
As long as we have a strong lifeline and spiritual friends to help us, we are relatively safe.
But what about the other not so good entities we meet in our travels?
Here is found the stuff of myth and legend – the demons, monsters and vampires. Do they exist? Yes. These beings may have been incarnated on earth, but I suspect a lot of them are from other 'suns of consciousness' and have little knowledge of us. Well, what makes them nasty? Well, we have the stories of Lucifer and fallen angels who got a bit too big for their boots. As they went out on their adventures, at some point they thought they didn't really need the lifeline back to source and began to indulge in their own fantasies and creations from which were born the typical religious sins of lust, greed, pride, etc. Their spiritual lifelines began to shrink through their own free will, and less light began to come through. So, they then became glowing, red embers in the void – losing their spiritual light and slowly dying. The only way they thought they could get sustenance was by hijacking any hapless soul who came along. And here is where the legends of vampires come from. These dying entities would endeavour to trap souls and suck the life energy from them. I suspect that some of these entities do eventually die by plugging off completely their lifeline back to source. Then, their light goes out completely, leaving them as fossilized rocks floating in the void. Others may eventually realize their folly and cry out for help. A cry for help never goes unheard, and some spiritual being will always come to their aid.
So, what do we have – a void in which which suns of consciousness are shining? Will we ultimately all join together so that there is no more void, only light?
As we move up into higher spiritual levels, are terms like God and consciousness now a bit defunct?
Am I only conscious when I am conscious of something, i.e. directing my light of perception onto it? If I am conscious of the void, does that mean I am the void? Or is the void separate from consciousness?
After studying eastern philosophy from the 1960s, onwards, I feel I am now ready to move on. So I will boldly say there is no infinite consciousness which knows all and is aware of all. There is an infinity of units of consciousness with the power of expanding infinitely through the joy of discovering and knowing other forms of consciousness. What we think of as God is just our home sun of consciousness. God is next door as well, as another sun of consciousness.
Don't stay on the same floor. Press the button and move up to the next.
Enjoy the trip and don't snooze too long.

[bellbird]

Was there really a question in there ?
These sorts of things have been discussed in great detail in the books of mr Neale Donald Walsh and God. Look at his website to read more about it:
Neale Donald Walsch - Conversations with God
Ps: Neale and God discuss that the Devil was fantasised by man. How can one appreciate the sun if there were no rainy days? Thank you for your thread.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by bellbird

Was there really a question in there ?

Well, there was - one in the title, one in the second sentence, and three near the end. But, I take your point. I suppose I was sounding off a bit and trying to get something off my chest!

[callmecrazy]

Which came first the chicken or the egg??

[ethereal]

Hehe, the Void (Godhead/Unmanifest) came first, and then the Light as God/Manifest. But they're also one and the same and these are just mental concepts, so the whole point is moot

In your questions, there really is no contradiction -- God is All-That-Is, including infinities of infinite number of consciousnesses, as well as Infinite Potential beyond what even exists.

[dorothy hanna]

God is, was, and always shall, be. The void, is simply that point before creation, manifestation of all else. All else, is experience.

[CamC]

Time and space are illusions, therefore, neither came "first".

And God wouldn't have said "Let there be light." because he would've had no one to say it to.

[Anagogy]

Interesting question!

I actually think CamC was on the right track when s/he said that because time and space are illusions neither came first. It's a horrible pretzel to get your mind into (some people enjoy contortions of a mental nature ), but the difference between the void (or in other words, the unmanifest) and the creation (the manifest) is only apparent for consciousness that is observing this infinite fractal we call reality from below the perspective of intelligent infinity. You see, above the level of finite perception, all POSSIBLE realities exist. Not one or two or a million, but an infinite number of combinations of matter and energy. So from one point of view, nothing was ever created and nothing will ever be destroyed. However, it may appear to in linear reality.

Everything exists, because nothingness does not exist. It can't exist, it is nothingness. The label of "nothingness" or "void" given to the "infinite lack there of" doesn't make it any more existent or real. But I guess realness is up for debate at this level of reality. It is so hard for us, as human beings, to think in a non linear way, outside of time and normal conceptions of space. So, infinite existence is balanced by infinite non-existence (the void). Consciousness, or energy, which everything that exists is made of, reflects this thoughtform of duality between positive (expansion/existence) and negative (contraction/non-existence) in everything from the macrocosm to the microcosm. Energy is the thoughtform of action. Entropy is the thoughtform of nonaction. This is where polarization and how energy flows comes into play and where it eventually takes you.

You can evolve towards the super awake half of the creator (consciousness), or the super asleep version of the creator (matter). You don't ever become completely one or the other forever, but you can come infinitely close. Imagine walking towards some place but everytime you take a step, the next step is half the distance the last one was. You never get there, but you can become infinitely close. That is the kind of situation we are dealing with here.

If you did somehow manage to become one or the other, self awareness would cease. The reason for this is because in order for consciousness (which is the backbone of existence) to remain conscious, there has to be something for it to be conscious of. If you reached a state of all consciousness, you would have awareness of all things and there opposites combined, they would cancel each other out, and you would be left with nothing to percieve but perhaps raw energetic balance...that is, until by choice, the thoughtform of imbalance is thrown back into the mix which destabilizes infinity, in effect pressing the "reset button", causing "differences" to form once again, and starting individuation all over again.

[Erock]

What came first implies duration, as in time, but time is only a mental concept, so your question is invalid in a sense.

Erock

Edit: I guess someone already made that point. I will just reaffirm it.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by callmecrazy

Which came first the chicken or the egg??

The egg.

Now if you asked "Which came first, the chicken or the chicken egg" that's a harder question.

[AirBreather]

Hmm.

To answer the orginal question with a comment:

"Came first" implies linear time. Without such, it does not really matter, aye?

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by AirBreather

Hmm.
"Came first" implies linear time. Without such, it does not really matter, aye?

Yes, you're right. I suppose what I really meant was : 'Can there be anything outside of consciousness?' This question had been asked earlier on another thread, and it got me wondering. I am asking the question because the general consensus these days seems to be that everything is consciousness, so there can't be anything outside of it. I am intuitively beginning to have reservations about this model (having believed it myself for decades now).

[AirBreather]

Hmm.

Ties into a whole lot of "quantum stuff", observer, etc...

Might have been here or elsewhere, but... Maybe a good question would be "without observation, does it exist?"

Sort of puts me into mind of an endless series of observers observing others... Mirror reflections. What would happen if your reflection walked away?

Ehh.

I'm just getting strange now.

[Cantando]

We all seem to create our own personal cocktail of beliefs - mix in a bit of Christianity here, a bit of Buddhism there and go along with that for a while till something more interesting comes along (but please, please, spare me any suffering or pain, oh no, that would be too tough, I can't deal with that). Personally, I am bored stiff with all this universal consciousness stuff. Many people jump on this bandwagon and just create another belief system/religion out of it. Can anyone prove there is universal consciousness? Really, it's no more of an improvement than believing you will go to hell if you miss church on Sunday. Every time I read a thread from someone expounding All That Is and We are All One, creating and manifesting, growing and evolving, I just yawn. So what if I could become some great god creating my own universe(s), cure aids and cancer, end poverty and bring world peace, and be totally aware of everything. I couldn't think of anything more boring, in fact, I think it would be hell!

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by Cantando

We all seem to create our own personal cocktail of beliefs - mix in a bit of Christianity here, a bit of Buddhism there and go along with that for a while till something more interesting comes along (but please, please, spare me any suffering or pain, oh no, that would be too tough, I can't deal with that). Personally, I am bored stiff with all this universal consciousness stuff. Many people jump on this bandwagon and just create another belief system/religion out of it. Can anyone prove there is universal consciousness? Really, it's no more of an improvement than believing you will go to hell if you miss church on Sunday. Every time I read a thread from someone expounding All That Is and We are All One, creating and manifesting, growing and evolving, I just yawn. So what if I could become some great god creating my own universe(s), cure aids and cancer, end poverty and bring world peace, and be totally aware of everything. I couldn't think of anything more boring, in fact, I think it would be hell!

The "cocktail of beliefs" that you mentioned only prove that there is so much out there that needs to be filtered. With all that is out there, how do we know which one is right? You can say, how do we prove something is right? The endless questioning leads to nowhere. There are an infinite number of questions that you can ask and you can spend your whole life trying to answer them. People first thought that the earth was the center of the universe. But it isn't. That proves that there is a wrong way and there is a right way. There must be a right question with a right answer. A truth which is lucid and clear, free from "mixing" of other religions or beliefs.

[ken nubo]

What if there is no God or void to begin with? =)

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by ken nubo

What if there is no God or void to begin with? =)

Nice question. So ... either at the beginning there was something else (but what ??), or, there was no beginning, just the present eternal moment. What do you think?

[AirBreather]

Hmm.

Some sciences (and schools of thought, I imagine) say that there is no such thing as "nothing." By which I mean... There can be diffuse matter (or energy, etc) or matter that would take a Google-plex strong microscope to view...

But there is something always there.

Whether it means something *was* always there is another question. But *I* am assuming so... Makes my head hurt a bit less.

Soo... If *something* has always existed... And something was 'drawn' to each other (gravity, process similiar to star formation, etc)... Something *else* would have been formed from that joining process.

*shrug*

Thoughts?