Fear of reincarnation

[Placebo23]

I find the thought about endless reincarnation, where the only exit is nirvana / enlightment, which is taught by buddism, very depressing.

As I have for myself no free will I'm a slave of some higher authority and it is not my choice if I will be reaching enlightment in this lifetime. And when I die, in my next lifetime I have to start with zero again. Every spritually experience which I collect in this lifetime is for the garbage bin when I die.

What do you think about this topic ? Do you have similar fears ?

[Bizarre Jester]

I don't have any fears of the afterlife or reincarnation. I believe that reincarnation is a choice. It can be a 2nd chance if we didn't make the most out of our previous life.
To think about it right now I'd be kind of pissed if I had to start over again from scratch after I get through this life time. For all I know I had 100 previous lives but I have no conscious awareness of them.

[Placebo23]

if we didn't make the most out of our previous life.

What how can we make the most out of our life ? Is it really necessary to reach enlightment to escape the wheel of life ?

[Bizarre Jester]

Originally Posted by Placebo23

What how can we make the most out of our life ? Is it really necessary to reach enlightment to escape the wheel of life ?

Well if after we die we didn't accomplish what we were supposed to or lived a pleasurable, fulfilling life. Just by being a part of this forum we are learning how to do that.
As for enlightenment, according to Buddhism that may be the case. I believe that the process occurs both during our physical life, or lives, and after we die.

[desertrat]

I believe in reincarnation and free will . We came here to let go of the pain from past lives . desert rat

[BillyTheAdult]

Originally Posted by Placebo23

I find the thought about endless reincarnation, where the only exit is nirvana / enlightenment, which is taught by Buddhism, very depressing.

As I have for myself no free will I'm a slave of some higher authority and it is not my choice if I will be reaching enlightenment in this lifetime. And when I die, in my next lifetime I have to start with zero again. Every spiritually experience which I collect in this lifetime is for the garbage bin when I die.

What do you think about this topic ? Do you have similar fears ?

You have a very limiting, actually several, misconceptions in this original post.
Buddhism, or the Buddha anyway, rejected the idea that there were certain people who could not reach enlightenment in any one lifetime, which was taught by the predominant religion, Hinduism, at the time of his life.

Also the part of you that finds this thought disconcerting, is the personal "I" the ego which is attached to the livng physical entity that you perceive as yourself. This part will not be carried on to other lifetimes, only the soul or spirit or whatever you like to call will be. So if you are reincarnated in to say a goat, that goat will not be bothered by the fact that it is part of the cycle of reincarnation. Only the present "you" is bothered by this.

[gingernpepsi]

I agree with Billy. I mean, it is hard for me to imagine living forever and being eternal, but perhaps that is only because I am trapped within a finite body.

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by Placebo23

I find the thought about endless reincarnation, where the only exit is nirvana / enlightment, which is taught by buddism, very depressing.

As I have for myself no free will I'm a slave of some higher authority and it is not my choice if I will be reaching enlightment in this lifetime. And when I die, in my next lifetime I have to start with zero again. Every spritually experience which I collect in this lifetime is for the garbage bin when I die.

What do you think about this topic ? Do you have similar fears ?

Well, it is no wonder you find the concept depressing. You have a few misconceptions about it.

For example, nothing is forcing you to reincarnate. You do it by choice. You could well refuse ever incarnate again. The reason why many souls choose incarnation over remaining nonphysical is there is so much catalyst for growth in the physical world, because of all the negative contrast. It births desires which cause the being to grow, and because of that contrast, it is a more efficient route to the union with the all.

And the information you learn lifetime to lifetime is remembered at death of the physical body. You die, and then you're like, "Hmmmm...that was an interesting experience! What's next?" And then another appropriate learning experience is determined that best suits your incarnational learning needs.

You also retain what you learned in other lives as a subconscious overlay, so you're not a completely blank slate from incarnation to incarnation.

Personally, I derive much comfort and peace from the idea of reincarnation. You don't have just one chance to "get things right". You have an UNLIMITED amount of time. There are an infinity of experiences available to us -- infinite degrees of yet more expanded and delicious ecstatic experiences.

What we perceive as "negativity" is simply resistance to what is. One can learn to not resist what is, and ALL experiences then become amazing extensions of dimensional awareness.

[larkok]

What I'm bothered most about when it comes to reincarnation is how much choice do we have in where to go next?

Or does the choice even exist? Could it not be possible that a soul would reincarnate in the form of a caterpillar or a child that dies prematurely due to physical defects at the time of birth? Who would want to experience those realities where the possibility of growth is largely non-existent?

[oasis]

Originally Posted by larkok

What I'm bothered most about when it comes to reincarnation is how much choice do we have in where to go next?

Or does the choice even exist? Could it not be possible that a soul would reincarnate in the form of a caterpillar or a child that dies prematurely due to physical defects at the time of birth? Who would want to experience those realities where the possibility of growth is largely non-existent?

Thing is, you can't say that growth is non existent in a caterpillar or a premature child death. There may well be lessons there, and I think there are. Also, you per say don't have a choice. As previously said in this thread, we are just ego personalities that are shed at death. Your higher consciousness would "decide"(although i don't like that word) in this context.

[StevenHandel]

You have already been reincarnated again and again. There is nothing to be afraid of. Not to mention, the "personality" that you think will be reincarnated is not so. Your concept of "self" isn't what gets reincarnated.

[Placebo23]

@ Anagogy

Originally Posted by Anagogy

Well, it is no wonder you find the concept depressing. You have a few misconceptions about it.

For example, nothing is forcing you to reincarnate. You do it by choice. You could well refuse ever incarnate again. The reason why many souls choose incarnation over remaining nonphysical is there is so much catalyst for growth in the physical world, because of all the negative contrast. It births desires which cause the being to grow, and because of that contrast, it is a more efficient route to the union with the all.

And the information you learn lifetime to lifetime is remembered at death of the physical body. You die, and then you're like, "Hmmmm...that was an interesting experience! What's next?" And then another appropriate learning experience is determined that best suits your incarnational learning needs.

You also retain what you learned in other lives as a subconscious overlay, so you're not a completely blank slate from incarnation to incarnation.

Personally, I derive much comfort and peace from the idea of reincarnation. You don't have just one chance to "get things right". You have an UNLIMITED amount of time. There are an infinity of experiences available to us -- infinite degrees of yet more expanded and delicious ecstatic experiences.

What we perceive as "negativity" is simply resistance to what is. One can learn to not resist what is, and ALL experiences then become amazing extensions of dimensional awareness.

Thank you for your great answer. But tell me one more thing: Why do you think, that you can be certain about that ? It seems to me that you got some more inside in this topic as other people here on the forum.

Can you safely say that I will have a choice when I die ?

[taylor]

Originally Posted by Placebo23

@ Anagogy



Thank you for your great answer. But tell me one more thing: Why do you think, that you can be certain about that ? It seems to me that you got some more inside in this topic as other people here on the forum.

Can you safely say that I will have a choice when I die ?

I know just from David R. Hawkins' work that he remembers past lives in detail and also claims that we have a choice to incarnate. We choose to do so for our own growth. You retain in your aura everything you've learned from past lives and experiences. You have certain attractions and aversions in your aura that persist even when you leave the body or enter a new body. So being kind in one life predisposes you to be kind in the next.

From the Bhagavad-Gita, Krishna claims that even if you try and fail to achieve enlightenment in this lifetime, when you reincarnate you will reach that previous level of wisdom as before and continue on until you succeed.

In Buddhism as well as Hindusim they teach that accumulating good karma will help ensure a good next birth.

[NexusOfCompletion]

If the true misfortune of an individual is to never transcend the subject-object duality, what can be reincarnated? There is nothing in reality, but reality itself.

"On this path effort never goes to waste, and there is no failure. Even a little effort toward spiritual awareness will protect you from the greatest fear."
-Bhagavad Gita (2:40)

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Placebo23

And when I die, in my next lifetime I have to start with zero again. Every spritually experience which I collect in this lifetime is for the garbage bin when I die.

That is incorrect.

You do not start from zero.

You never start from zero.

Hence in Buddhism, there is a certain word. It is "beginninglessness".

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Placebo23

@ Anagogy



Thank you for your great answer. But tell me one more thing: Why do you think, that you can be certain about that ? It seems to me that you got some more inside in this topic as other people here on the forum.

Can you safely say that I will have a choice when I die ?

why do you think you can be certain enough about YOUR beliefs, enough to actually fear it? You seem to have some inside info or something. Can you safely say that you will not have a choice when you die?

[Weena]

Originally Posted by Anagogy

Personally, I derive much comfort and peace from the idea of reincarnation.

Same goes for me. I think I like living in both forms. As a soul taking a rest from earth..but i also do enjoy life in a physical body.

Also, Placebo, you don't have to incarnate quickly and often, it's all up to you. You determine you next life by the actions you take and very importantly by your state of mind the moment you physically die.

As for experiences going to the bin, they don't. There are ways to make them come back to your consciousness (no, don't ask me how, I'm still working on this myself ). You may also incarnate again to help other souls. You may incarnate as a "tourist" (without a karmic grid) (my case, apparently.).

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Weena

Same goes for me. I think I like living in both forms. As a soul taking a rest from earth..but i also do enjoy life in a physical body.

Also, Placebo, you don't have to incarnate quickly and often, it's all up to you. You determine you next life by the actions you take and very importantly by your state of mind the moment you physically die.

As for experiences going to the bin, they don't. There are ways to make them come back to your consciousness (no, don't ask me how, I'm still working on this myself ). You may also incarnate again to help other souls. You may incarnate as a "tourist" (without a karmic grid) (my case, apparently.).

how do you know?

[Weena]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

how do you know?

I'm merely sharing my understanding of reincarnation. I cannot persuade you or anyone it's "the" truth, it just is "my" truth.(I told you I'm a tourist, totally don't care who agrees with me or not, and certainly not caring if anyone thinks my beliefs are good or not. They work for me).

[Placebo23]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

That is incorrect.

You do not start from zero.

You never start from zero.

Hence in Buddhism, there is a certain word. It is "beginninglessness".

Can you elaborate on this beginninglessness ?

Thank you

[Acting Like Godot]

Never mind about that ....

The point is - we carry, live with and create our own karma all the time.

Day to day, hour to hour, year to year, decade to decade, and yes, lifetime to lifetime ....

Death, in a sense, is irrelevant to karma, which just goes on operating.

Reincarnation is just karma carrying on with itself.

Therefore your statement here:

And when I die, in my next lifetime I have to start with zero again. Every spritually experience which I collect in this lifetime is for the garbage bin when I die

is not correct.

In fact this Buddhist passage may clarify and illustrate:

Four ranks of sages

(Jpn.: shie)

Buddhist teachers to be relied upon after Shakyamuni Buddha's death. They are explained in the Nirvana and other sutras, which classify them into four ranks according to their level of understanding.

The first rank refers to the voice-hearers who have yet to attain any of the four stages of Hinayana enlightenment.

The second rank refers to those who have attained the first stage, that of the stream-winner (Skt srota-apanna ), or one who has entered the metaphorical river leading to nirvana; and to those the second stage, that of the once-returner (sakridagamin), or one who must undergo only one more rebirth in the human world before entering nirvana.

The third rank refers to those who have attained the third stage, that of non-returner (anagamin), or one who will never be reborn in this world.

The fourth rank refers to those who have eliminated the illusions of thought and desire and attained the fourth and highest stage, that of arhat.

So if you read carefully, you'll see that karma (towards enlightenment) can be accumulated across lifetimes, and among other things, the technical term for those with one lifetime left to go is sakridagamin.

There are other terms, eg for those with an estimated seven lifetimes left to go etc etc

[Curtis2011]

Originally Posted by Placebo23

Every spritually experience which I collect in this lifetime is for the garbage bin when I die.

Hey. This is actually incorrect.

While you may "forget" this lifetime in your next lifetime, you will keep every spiritual lesson you have learned. You will keep your spiritual evolution.

Jesus Himself said "store up treasures in Heaven" - THEN he said "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you!"

So, store up "treasures" of spiritual truth within you, and you will keep them forever.


If you have read anything about Dr. Hawkins (Steve has a post or two about him), he is an enlightened teacher who is alive right now on earth. He has written several books about spirituality and in his books he says that "at the moment of birth everyone already has a calibratable level of consciousness." This level, he says, is the accumulation of all of your "karma" or spiritual development that you have ever experienced for as long as your soul has existed.

He also has said that once he reached enlightenment, he could clearly remember ALL of his past lives on earth and in other places. He said that once you are enlightened it becomes clear that your entire existence is actually just "one long lifetime" and not several separated lives. While you may enter different physical bodies over different lifetimes, your soul is still the one and only you that has ever existed.

Hope that helps!

[Canadian]

Originally Posted by Weena

You may incarnate as a "tourist" (without a karmic grid) (my case, apparently.).

What do you mean by "karmic grid?" How do you know you are a "tourist?"

It sounds fascinating even though I don't understand what you mean.

[ChrisL]

Placebo23 - The following is my experience and information from the Akashic Records. Before we enter into any lifetimes, we set the parameters - number of total lifetimes we want to experience, certain events in each lifetime that will help us wake up. You yourself set this up - there is nothing more powerful than you (unless you choose to give your power away to someone/something).

Then from the micro perspective, we enter into one lifetime and play it out in linear time (like living in a movie). When that life is over we move onto the next greatest adventure. Your soul selects the next adventure, in whatever timeframe that would be. All the memories from all of your soul's lives are stored in your soul's etheric body - you are never starting from scratch so to speak. From the macro perspective, all the lifetimes are playing out at the same time (like radio stations) - it's just that we choose to tune into one particular one at a time.

Curtis2011 referenced Dr Hawkins as being able to remember his past lives. That's true. When we become enlightened (a consistent state of no internal conflict), we not only remember the other lives, but we are living from the macro (Oversoul) perspective, meaning we have access to the wisdom from any of the lifetimes. We can literally shift our consciousness into any particular lifetime. When we look at others, we can see/remember them from other lifetimes as well. So imagine if you have had 387 lives - that could be a considerable amount of wisdom.

You could become enlightened in any moment of any lifetime - it doesn't take hundreds of lifetimes. In fact, it only takes 1 lifetime to gain the full human experience. If we have many lifetimes it is because we want a fuller array of experiences, not because anyone is forcing us to have more lives. Anything we do in one lifetime affects all the others - for example, when you wake up in one lifetime, it sends a ripple-effect into all the other lifetimes. You can be awake in more than one lifetime.

Once we become enlightened, if there are more lifetimes that we have "scheduled" (i.e. 5 left) that we haven't experienced on a micro, linear timeframe yet, then we can choose to either experience those or not. If we choose to come back then there is nothing left unfinished - we are truly creating something new, we're "off the script" now. And there are those who become enlightened, reincarnate back unenlightened, only to reach enlightenment again.

Enlightenment is living from the perspective of the Oversoul, and to express it is more a matter of releasing layers of internal conflict, misconceptions, limiting beliefs, self-negating thoughts and emotions, so that the state of enlightenment can shine through us. It is our natural state that we finally allow to express, and yet there are more states of consciousness beyond that. There are 21 states of human consciousness that I'm aware of - enlightenment is only the 7th.

Most of humanity exists on a level of trying to push away pain and have pleasure. We can get stuck on this for quite awhile. Once we realize that becoming focused in the present moment is the gateway to living an effortless life, where life becomes a blessing, moving from moment to moment in a synchronized way, the question of achieving states of consciousness (i.e. self realization, enlightenment, ascension) starts fading in favor of just being more present. And we all have at least one lifetime where we will reach enlightenment - so relax.

When we try to struggle, judge, hold onto the past, then life becomes a hell. Then we might look at lifetimes like an imprisonment not a blessing. The more we are willing to live beyond our mind, living without identity, being curious to explore the moment, the more our natural wisdom and intuition can move through us, and we move easily through the various states of consciousness. Hope that helps.

[royster]

What do you think about this topic ? Do you have similar fears ?

I confidently say that this is a fear everyone goes through. But it's based in imagining the future, instead of staying in the present. The saying goes; "If you have one foot in yesterday and one foot in tomorrow, you're in a perfect position to piss on today!"

As one spiritually ascends, there are more opportunities not seen by minimalist sojourners. These oppertunities are only understood by staying the path...they aren't available at Wal-Mart, though they'd have you beleive that. And reincarnation is not a factory-process; as you grow, you become able to choose and experience things not imaginable on a dense 3rd dimensional level.

I don't look forward to having to go through infantsy and childhood again, but that's being gauged by my present experience. When I get to the end of this present sojourn, the facts are completely different than what I can perceive now.

Many blessings on your way!

WONDERFUL insight clearly stated, ChrisL.

[Placebo23]

@ ALG, ChrisL, Curtis2011 and all the other.

THANK YOU. I feel much happier now and I'm glad that I had the opportunity to ask my question here on this forum.

thank you again.
sincerely

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by Placebo23

I find the thought about endless reincarnation, where the only exit is nirvana / enlightment, which is taught by buddism, very depressing.

As I have for myself no free will I'm a slave of some higher authority and it is not my choice if I will be reaching enlightment in this lifetime. And when I die, in my next lifetime I have to start with zero again. Every spritually experience which I collect in this lifetime is for the garbage bin when I die.

Reincarnation isn't something to escape from, and you have the option not to incarnate, whenever you want. You can hang out in bliss in the ether, but then you won't get to experience life, so it's your call.

People who become enlightened keep incarnating. As I understand it, it's simply a step in the path - a step which crosses the border between suffering as a default state, and joy and happiness as a default state. After that your experience of incarnation will be rather different. And you'll have eternity to enjoy this state as compared to a relative blip of time where you'll have to experience maya / suffering, so celebrate!

[Weena]

Originally Posted by Canadian

What do you mean by "karmic grid?" How do you know you are a "tourist?"
It sounds fascinating even though I don't understand what you mean.

It means I did not choose one particular path for this lifetime. A psychic told me that (she was spot on for all the other stuff, so...). I can do whatever i want to do and it'll work. For example i don't have one career path like some people have. I've had many different jobs, they were all quite interesting, i enjoyed them, but i don't have one that i would want to pursue for a lifetime. And I don't "have to" either . It does not mean I'm not affected at all by past lives though. I had a 26 years long horrible phobia of birds, and that was a past life thing. It's pretty much sorted now (through a session with a healer...and later on ChrisL also told me where it stemmed from... thanks Chris ).

So I don't know if it makes sense? It's just that I don't have much karma to sort out or a particular purpose. Even my astrological chart says it (when looking at north and south knots)... I came here to "apply all the knowledge i accumulated in the other lives". Not to work on family issues, not to work on career issues..no..just to "apply what i have learned" .

I wish i could be more articulate in my explanation...

[Curtis2011]

Originally Posted by Placebo23

@ ALG, ChrisL, Curtis2011 and all the other.

THANK YOU. I feel much happier now and I'm glad that I had the opportunity to ask my question here on this forum.

thank you again.
sincerely

Sure thing man!

Another interesting factoid, I am pretty sure I heard Dr. Hawkins say in one of his seminars (via Youtube video) that the average human being has something like 25 past lifetimes on Earth. Sounds crazy but I swear I heard him say it! Not sure where the specific video is though.

[cacheborn]

Thought this may be of interest. (via @ktotheb)

http://nyti.ms/aMk0eT