Reality - is it real?

[andrew]

I just kind of thought about "real" as being subjective. As if whatever you honestly believe is real, will be. Your mind sees things in a way to enforce your beliefes, to prove yourself right. If you keep thinking something is fake, your mind will keeping finding reasons to reinforce that. Powerful right there, internalize that.

Anyways, I think most people want "real" and "reality" to be whatever exists regardless of the minds interpretation of it. As if we took thinking and perception out of the picture and took a true image exact photo. But if we're not concious, then is anything really real? How do you know if there's reality if you don't exist? I mean, what's it like to not exist, you don't even know you don't exist because you can't even think about not existing. We can't even comprehend not existing, being nothing. It makes my head explode a little. The closest thing I can get is it being while you're in a dreamless sleep. When you sleep, you're not aware. It's like sometime in your bed, then the next thing you know you're awake. So maybe not existing is like sleep, except you never wake up. But since you don't really experience the non-awareness part of sleep, you can't really tell what that's like anyways.

It's late, I could just be crazy. Does anybody else ever just think about this kind of thing, and sometimes just get scared? I mean I don't live my life scared or anything, just once in a great while, and it's mroe depressing than it is scarry I think.

[songwriter]

mmm... well...

Nothing is real... strawberry fields...

I mean nothing is real when you're low conscious, the more conscious you are the more accurate your concept of reality is, I think.

"living is easy with eyes closed... misunderstanding all you see..." to go on with the song...

I use to say majority almost never is right. The great ideas start in minority and many time after are accepted by the majority... Like the Earth is not flat, for instance.

[songwriter]

Originally Posted by songwriter

mmm... well...

Nothing is real... strawberry fields...

I mean nothing is real when you're low conscious, the more conscious you are the more accurate your concept of reality is, I think.

"living is easy with eyes closed... misunderstanding all you see..." to go on with the song...

I use to say majority almost never is right. The great ideas start in minority and many time after are accepted by the majority... Like the Earth is not flat, for instance.

Or most of what we talk about here, now it's a minority.

"I hope someday you'll join us and the world will be as one"

[demk]

Yeah, but is it really real???

But...is it really real???

lol

(Anybody watch the mighty boosh lol)

[Jake Danger]

Since there is no mind-independent access to any mind-independent reality, do we have any reliable basis for asserting that there is any reality outside of our minds?

(I minored in philosophy so now I think I'm SO cool...)

Viva la Matrix!

[skinnyninja]

Let's say for a minute that it is in fact NOT real.

How would that change the way you live?

[mind-energy]

I think that first the word "real" should be defined.
Is a photon really a particle or a wave?

[Richful]

Various religions eg. Buddhism, Hinduism, Kabbalah, refer to reality as illusion, the dream of god. So it may not be real. Although this depends on your level of conciousness, given that my three examples are evolutionary or enlightenment religions. So if you're at, oh I don't know, average human level, then the 3dimensional world is real, but to "god/buddha/yoda" it is illusion.

That's right, concrete hurts to fall on. As you increase your level of conciousness the 3dimensional world becomes more malleable and conciousness itself more real. Sound familiar? Subjetive perhaps...

Anywho so you continue the journey and eventually reach union with god or perhaps realise your buddhahood, become one with the force, etc. your choice... The duality of creator and created disappears into union. And finally you are the one creating the 3dimensional world and also the one being created. Quite a trip...

Personally I rank with the average humans, I've yet to successfully swollow the red pill, keeps getting caught in my throat...

[starseed]

The only "real" reality is the one your ego-awareness is creating for you. Most people are trying to find the "true reality", but in fact there is no such thing. When you expand your consciousness, more things become possible, therefore your reality shifts into a much more fulfilling experience.

But this is just my opinion from the reality I am experiencing.

[AndyMartin]

I think about it all the time.

I'd suggest taking a look at the Mandukya Upanishad. It's a very interesting read on the topic of states of consciousness. Come to think of it, I think I'll read it again tonight.

You'll break your head open thinking about this kind of stuff. Which I firmly believe is a good thing. Zen encourages meditating on head-breaking koans as a way of getting directly at the nature of existence and becoming enlightened. But it raises the practical question of what good it does to reach buddhahood? Bodhisattvas intentionally maintain imperfection in order to stay in the cycle of samsara and help others.

And that's exactly the good thinking about this stuff can do: It help raise your level of consciousness and allows you to live better and happier and in turn help others. I say allows, because it doesn't assure that end. You choose the end: whether your explorations feed your consciousness or your ego. You feed consciousness by choosing to live what you discover in your exploration. Whether that constitutes a provable, objective becomes irrelevant because you're living the truth that allows you to expand in positive ways.

[songwriter]

I took the red pill a long long time ago.

What is real? What do we define as "real"?
I'll use the Dictionary of English, not my language.

"1. true; not merely ostensible, nominal, or apparent: the real reason for an act.
So lies would be not real... that definition is not very useful
2. existing or occurring as fact; actual rather than imaginary, ideal, or fictitious: a story taken from real life.
So thoughts would not be real... mmm...
3. being an actual thing; having objective existence; not imaginary: The events you will see in the film are real and not just made up.
Movies would not be real...
4. being actually such; not merely so-called: a real victory.
Opinions would not be real...
5. genuine; not counterfeit, artificial, or imitation; authentic: a real antique; a real diamond; real silk.
Impersonators would not be real...
6. unfeigned or sincere: real sympathy; a real friend.
hypocrites would not be real...
7. Informal. absolute; complete; utter: She's a real brain.
Average ones would not be real...
8. Philosophy.
a. existent or pertaining to the existent as opposed to the nonexistent.
okay, pertaining to the existent... consciousness is not real then...
b. actual as opposed to possible or potential.
thoughts and dreams would not be real...
c. independent of experience as opposed to phenomenal or apparent."
theories would not be a real thing...

So, sorry to get back to The Beatles, but "Nothing is real, is all in the mind y'know?"

According to our definition what we here call "consciousness" is not real, not tangible, you know. And we may define consciousness is everywhere, the universe. And the universe maybe defined as everything that is real.

Something's wrong here. So our consciounsness it's in everything that's real but is not real itself. But wait, other consciousness are not real either, so they aren't part of the universe... so our consciousness can't influence other consciousness...

So if our consciousness is not real the universe is not real either, or all the consciousness are out of the universe. Kind of like in the Matrix movie.

So the best answer I can give is that our consciousness is everywhere but is not "real", according to our standard definition of reality.

So, how curious, that these letters you see are real... but not the source of the thought that caused their existance.

"Dreams create reality" as I sometimes say. Hello my unreal friends.

[Antarananda]

Originally Posted by AndyMartin

I think about it all the time.

I'd suggest taking a look at the Mandukya Upanishad. It's a very interesting read on the topic of states of consciousness.

A most excellent suggestion! A superb commentary on the Upanishads is here.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by andrew

I just kind of thought about "real" as being subjective. As if whatever you honestly believe is real, will be.

I don't believe the "whatever you honestly believe is real will be" school of thought, simply because the universe keeps surprising me. A year or so back, I wouldn't have believed in something like Steve's site - yet I still stumbled across it.

I do believe in the concept of Reality Tunnels however. ie. The idea that we can never experience true reality ; that we can only experience reality as filtered through our physical senses and mental perceptions, and that therefore by changing our mental model we can change our experience of reality.