Personal Development for Smart People^TM Forums

RedRain · 05-30-2010, 10:02 PM

If you've already fully rejected the idea that god is a higher power than yourself than you won't like this religion, or if you've completely turned yourself off to the idea that there is something bad inside of you, you won't like it in that case either.

This is sort of a spin off from my Emanuel Swedenborg thread as the religion I'm talking about would come directly from his teachings or works.

It's somewhat similar to main stream Christianity aside from the fact that there are far less unanswered theological questions in this religion and there are changes in a few key points of doctrine. Swedenborg wrote so many theological works covering so many topics you'd have a hard time finding a question about God, heaven or hell that he doesn't answer.

Some of the major differences between the theology of mainstream Christianity and the theology Swedenborg writes of are the following:

There is only one God who is the Lord, Jesus Christ. There are not three persons in God. There is only one person in God which is Jesus Christ.

You are not saved by 'faith alone'. You are saved through a process called regeneration. In this process you examine your motivations and shun motivations which desire to do things which are against the commandments of the Lord. If you shun these desires for the sake of the Lord, He will remove these desires from you and give you desires which are good.

After people die they go either to heaven or hell according the the quality of the desires of their heart. As this is the case, it is not God who sends people to hell. The person, who desires evil, will throw (him)self into hell as that is where (he) feels most at home, in the presence of those similar to (him)self.

God is never angry. He is love itself and cannot be angry at us, His creation.

Of course there's more. Those just seem to be the most relevant points of the doctrine to me. Any questions are welcome.

Lucidism · 05-30-2010, 10:38 PM

My suggestion for a religion for smart people: Jedi Church - Jedi Religion and Jedi Faith

desertrat · 05-30-2010, 10:57 PM

There are lots of religions . The world would be a boring place if we all thought the same way . The Christan reglion is as good as any . I chalange any one tho. to find in the King James bible any where , where it says my soul goes to hevin if I follow the dictates of the regilon or to hell if I dont. Many years ago a radio preaacher Garner Ted Armstrong offered his personal forthune ( milllions $$) to any one that could find any where in the bible where it stated we go to heven if we are good . desert rat

joelr · 05-31-2010, 12:51 AM

I don't see why this would be for "smart people"? It could be for "faithful people" or those who enjoy having to take a large leap of faith.

Looking at it in a "smart", logical, historical way, the whole New Testament mythology does not hold up well from an archeologists point of view.
NOVA | The Bible's Buried Secrets | Archeology of the Hebrew Bible | PBS

Then you also have the council of Nicaea where Constantine and his bishops spent a few years putting the St James Bible together. The Gnostics which were at least 1/2 of Christians were banned as well as the movements that believed Jesus was just a teacher. The Q Gospel done in Germany puts forth huge evidence that the supernatural aspects of Jesus were added sometime around 3AD. That is the same time the council of Nicaea took place.

Any text that said Jesus was anything but a supernatural being was outlawed and burned and destroyed all throughout the Middle East and beyond.
Some forgeries being added to the Bible were even exposed.

Also the symbolism and metaphors in Christianity are found in so many other religions before christianity, from the virgin birth (usually called parthenogenesis), death and resurrection, 12 apostles, Dec 25 birth, spring rebirth..

Many of those were found in Mithras, Horus, Greek and Hindu mythology.
The original Zoraster sun mythology celebrated Dec 25, Easter, death-rebirth, 12 apostles and it goes on and on. So the story was originally about the sun Sol.

So believing in Christian mythology to be literally true is a faith issue. Not a smarts issue. The odds of that one mythology being actually true while the 1000s of other mythologies are false are non-existent are low.

Then you still have to take another leap and believe Swedenborg was actually communicating with the Abrahamic God. Even though every generation has 1000's of folks that claim to be channeling either some version of God or some other being and the accuracy of their claims are unknown.

Plus another thing is the Abrahamic God is a Deity. There is no evidence of intervention by God beyond pure chance. For example a Christian may pray and have a miraculous healing of a fatal disease and be healed. But the same happens in all other religions and it happens also to atheist or even evil criminals. Just like any of them could die from a fatal disease.
How could I possibly pray to a God that let 64 million Christians die in the black plague? What would I say "I know praying didn't work for 64 million folks, despite repeated begging, but surely my prayers will get answered...."

It just doesn't work that way. So God sits back as a Deity, doesn't interfere.
Then suddenly, he wants to write a book, becomes a Theist type god and here he is. But then it got screwed up, he's gotta get someone to do some editing. Like he can't manifest a book?

There is no "smart" in fundamentalism.

Piercetheveil · 05-31-2010, 01:34 AM

Joel,

Nice response. Enjoyed the style and language play. Bookmarked.

MidasGirl · 05-31-2010, 02:56 AM

I'm having a very hard time seeing why it's for smart people, with such assertions that there is only one god, Jesus Christ. Why can't there be only one god, Allah? Or only one God, Ahura Mazda? Or 1 million other "one gods"?

What is unsmart about these other gods being the only god?

elucidate · 05-31-2010, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

I'm having a very hard time seeing why it's for smart people, with such assertions that there is only one god, Jesus Christ. Why can't there be only one god, Allah? Or only one God, Ahura Mazda? Or 1 million other "one gods"?

What is unsmart about these other gods being the only god?

There's nothing smart about it, until people realise it's all the same one God...and it isn't external, it's within.

MidasGirl · 05-31-2010, 03:10 AM

Absolutely, realizing that God is just a perception. And that that perception takes whatever form you give it (including a penis for the christian God) and also takes on all the powers you give it. And answers to whatever name you call it. Yay.

RedRain · 05-31-2010, 03:17 AM

Smart for a few reasons. Swedenborg had one of the highest IQ's in history. There are no holes in the theology like in some major religions where the default is 'we can't explain, just believe."

Also, as I believe it to be true, working from the truth in itself is a smart thing to do.

To joelr, much of these similarities your speaking of between Christianity and earlier religions are fabricated and over emphasized. For example, the Bible doesn't say Jesus was born on Dec 25th. That is when people chose to celebrate his birth.

To those saying there is nothing smart about it, is it not smart to live life with meaning and joy? Isn't that really the smartest thing to do? To live life with the most meaning and joy possible?

MidasGirl · 05-31-2010, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedRain

To those saying there is nothing smart about it, is it not smart to live life with meaning and joy? Isn't that really the smartest thing to do? To live life with the most meaning and joy possible?

Absolutely it IS smart to live a life full of joy and meaning. There just isn't anything smart about thinking that religion is the only way to achieve that joy and meaning, or even that it is the most efficient way.

mlc82 · 05-31-2010, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joelr

The Q Gospel done in Germany puts forth huge evidence that the supernatural aspects of Jesus were added sometime around 3AD. That is the same time the council of Nicaea took place.
.

Probably a typo, and I'm just nitpicking, but the council of Nicea took place in 325AD.

RedRain · 05-31-2010, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Absolutely it IS smart to live a life full of joy and meaning. There just isn't anything smart about thinking that religion is the only way to achieve that joy and meaning, or even that it is the most efficient way.

I disagree. I'm curious if that's okay with you.

Criseyde · 05-31-2010, 05:18 AM

What's smart about believing that there's a God existing somewhere Out There (where? if you peel back the sky, is that where he is?) that created everything and then peaced out but expects us to follow some commandments for his sake? And what is his sake, exactly? Will it make him better if we follow them? Will it make him happy? Does he need us to do this? And if he doesn't, why does he want us to? And if he doesn't want us to, why should we do it?

MidasGirl · 05-31-2010, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedRain

I disagree. I'm curious if that's okay with you.

That you disagree? Absolutely. It's ok with me.

For what it's worth, the church I go to shares a lot of the principles you posted. However, they also believe in honoring the different paths to God, and honoring each individual's right to choose their meaning of God. Or even to choose no God. I relate better to that. Doesn't mean I'm right and others are wrong. Only that it works really well for me.

RedRain · 05-31-2010, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Criseyde

What's smart about believing that there's a God existing somewhere Out There (where? if you peel back the sky, is that where he is?) that created everything and then peaced out but expects us to follow some commandments for his sake? And what is his sake, exactly? Will it make him better if we follow them? Will it make him happy? Does he need us to do this? And if he doesn't, why does he want us to? And if he doesn't want us to, why should we do it?

I guess I can clarify what I meant by that. Doing it for His sake means doing it for the sake of what He is, which is love. So you're following the commandments for the sake of love. The love that God is is love for the whole human race and that love wishes everyone to be happy.

Basically you are following the commandments for the sake of everyone because that is what God stands for.

God's only wish is that we are happy. He only wishes us to look up to Him for the sake of the happiness of everyone.

Anyway, take it or leave it.

Chris_1977 · 05-31-2010, 09:26 AM

I think the smart way to handle religion is to invent your own. We really do not know much about the ultimate nature of reality. Therefore, everybody is free to make up their own religion and probably everybody will come up with something different. This Swedenborg guy seems to be a fan of Jesus Christ but in my opinion it is disempowering to postulate that there is one special person whose level we will never reach. In my religion the growth of any person is unlimited. Besides, Jesus Christ as he is portrayed in the gospel, although an interesting person, also has aspects that I do not like so much. For instance, he talks quite a lot about punishment. Of course, one might be of the opinion that early christianity twisted what Jesus had to say. This is the problem with all religions relying on old books. It just leads to endless discussion about what was meant by certain text fragments and that just is not very useful.

elucidate · 05-31-2010, 10:19 AM

I was really responding to Midas Girls reply. It had nothing to do with the idea of living a joyful existence...that's very smart.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedRain

To those saying there is nothing smart about it, is it not smart to live life with meaning and joy? Isn't that really the smartest thing to do? To live life with the most meaning and joy possible?

nicbrahms · 05-31-2010, 11:02 AM

The smart thing to do is to live without crutches of anykind, religious or otherwise.

There is a consciousnesswhich encompasses all which we perceive or contemplate as God, and although we are God, we are not the greater part of God, for God is all and is omnipotent. In our present awareness we are restricted until we learn to derestrict. On the other hand we are the hands of God and fully connected to the whole and indeed are the whole. Fractals.

We create all the time, thats our nature, if and when you leave this existence you will still create and if you see the consciousness as Jesus, or God then you will perceive it as such. It is all creation and perception.

The truth is all truths are true.

RedRain · 05-31-2010, 01:24 PM

I guess it makes sense that no one here finds religion appealing.

You all seem to make up your own religions which really doesn't make any sense, unless you actually are an atheist and you know you're lying to yourself.

Thinking something will be real just because you want it to be is what insane people do. It's complete insanity.

I guess if god isn't real a good line of work would be making religions that only serve to make people feel good and selling them.

Seriously, go talk to an intelligent atheist and see how much they laugh at you.

elucidate · 05-31-2010, 01:42 PM

You seem to be expressing some hostility towards us, though I can't see why exactly?

Is it because some people don't hold your views, so you accuse them of being insane? That seems very UnChristian of you...or VERY Christian, depending on what type of christian you are.

Why do people have to agree with you to be considered sane by you?

You don't seem to be making much room in your head for anyone elses point of view, or trying to understand it, but just writing alternative ideas off as "insane" because you don't totally understand them. Is that what an all loving, tolerant God would do?
As I understand it, God would accept all manner of diversity of people and beliefs as "He" created it...why can't you? Seems pretty intolerant if you ask me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedRain

I guess it makes sense that no one here finds religion appealing.

You all seem to make up your own religions which really doesn't make any sense, unless you actually are an atheist and you know you're lying to yourself.

Thinking something will be real just because you want it to be is what insane people do. It's complete insanity.

I guess if god isn't real a good line of work would be making religions that only serve to make people feel good and selling them.

Seriously, go talk to an intelligent atheist and see how much they laugh at you.

nicbrahms · 05-31-2010, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedRain

I guess it makes sense that no one here finds religion appealing.

You all seem to make up your own religions which really doesn't make any sense, unless you actually are an atheist and you know you're lying to yourself.

Thinking something will be real just because you want it to be is what insane people do. It's complete insanity.

I guess if god isn't real a good line of work would be making religions that only serve to make people feel good and selling them.

Seriously, go talk to an intelligent atheist and see how much they laugh at you.

Isn't that what has been happening from the beginning of time, people making up religions to suit themselves, in those days people were forced to accept the dominant religion as their own. Now we create our own individual beliefs which I think is preferable.

But there is one fact that you are missing, consciousness as all is a proven scientific fact. So all our beliefs are founded on fact, fact in this world anyway, which in effect is creation. So really there is only truth as all is truth as I said.

An intelligent atheist, does such a thing exist?

elucidate · 05-31-2010, 01:50 PM

[QUOTE=RedRain;596033]
God's only wish is that we are happy. He only wishes us to look up to Him for the sake of the happiness of everyone.

QUOTE]

Ah no! Your God wants everyone to feel bad and guilty, not happy! Suffering seems to be the only way to reach heaven...which is where the happiness is waiting

What's the point in that? It seems pretty insane to waste ones whole life feeling guilty for a God that may or may not exist...only for the promise of happiness in heaven.

Solipsist · 05-31-2010, 02:10 PM

People, people, people!

We all have different paths to the same source. I, for one, will not deride RedRain for being on the path he is. I was once so devout in my religion, I went to mass every day, and I do not regret it, even now.

As nicbrahms alluded to, Truth is Truth. As RedRain asserts, Divine Love is for all. Neither of these assertions hurts anyone. Live and let live.

elucidate · 05-31-2010, 02:23 PM

As redrain asserts, we are all insane for not feeling a need for religion! Noone is deriding him...he can believe in whatever he wants. Can he let us do the same though?

We're all saying that differences make for a more diverse and interesting world here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solipsist

People, people, people!

We all have different paths to the same source. I, for one, will not deride RedRain for being on the path he is. I was once so devout in my religion, I went to mass every day, and I do not regret it, even now.

As nicbrahms alluded to, Truth is Truth. As RedRain asserts, Divine Love is for all. Neither of these assertions hurts anyone. Live and let live.

Criseyde · 05-31-2010, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedRain

I guess I can clarify what I meant by that. Doing it for His sake means doing it for the sake of what He is, which is love. So you're following the commandments for the sake of love. The love that God is is love for the whole human race and that love wishes everyone to be happy.

Basically you are following the commandments for the sake of everyone because that is what God stands for.

God's only wish is that we are happy. He only wishes us to look up to Him for the sake of the happiness of everyone.

Anyway, take it or leave it.

Okay, so his sake is actually our sake, which reveals a contradiction.

Also, an intelligent atheist told me that he doesn't see the difference between my beliefs and those of an atheist physicist, so... (ETA: And technically I consider myself an "intelligent atheist," since I'm completely a-theistic, but I don't know if a self-applied label from a "New Ager" will appease you. :P)

I'm not saying your beliefs are wrong, what you've outlined here sounds a lot like what the people here believe, and I'm not saying you're wrong or stupid to believe them. I just think there's a little respect issue going on here. But anyway, you're a reflection of me, so I'm not offended.

Chris_1977 · 05-31-2010, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedRain

Thinking something will be real just because you want it to be is what insane people do. It's complete insanity.

By this definition every single human being on the planet that is old enough to think is insane.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedRain

I guess if god isn't real a good line of work would be making religions that only serve to make people feel good and selling them.

Actually, it makes quite a bit of sense. In science when a problem space is simply too large, one often tries to guess a solution by maximizing a rather arbitrary functional to obtain a solution that is as regular as possible, for some definition of regular.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedRain

Seriously, go talk to an intelligent atheist and see how much they laugh at you.

Since when is the hypothetical laughing of somebody an argument in any discussion? Should this faulty line of reasoning be called "argumentation by shaming"?

elucidate · 05-31-2010, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_1977

By this definition every single human being on the planet that is old enough to think is insane.

Actually, it makes quite a bit of sense. In science when a problem space is simply too large, one often tries to guess a solution by maximizing a rather arbitrary functional to obtain a solution that is as regular as possible, for some definition of regular.

Since when is the hypothetical laughing of somebody an argument in any discussion? Should this faulty line of reasoning be called "argumentation by shaming"?

Isn't the whole credo surrounding religion based around shaming?

Chris_1977 · 05-31-2010, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elucidate

Isn't the whole credo surrounding religion based around shaming?

I think religions can be fine provided that they have one or fewer adherents. If they have more it seems to be a some kind of law in group dynamics that some "not so nice" characteristics of human beings surface.

Basically, since the process of creating a religion is a creative one, religions with more than one adherent engage in a process of "design by committee". The expression "design by committee" has a negative ring, at least in computer science circles, and maybe more widely as well. For religions it seems to work even worse than in computer science.

Note that religious groups that do not have nor want a creed (whether they konw this of themselves or not) may still be quite harmless. They have given up any aspirations for truth though, and are therefore fairly powerless as well.

SheldonCooper · 05-31-2010, 03:42 PM

The path to stupidity is paved with attempts to look smart.

Andrew Gubb · 05-31-2010, 03:47 PM

Philosophies or religious systems are all well and fine, I prefer not to "have" one though, myself. I know there are a few good ones, but I don't feel I need a system around my beliefs. Makes them too rigid IMO.

05-30-2010, 10:02 PM	#1 (permalink)
RedRain Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 627	A religion for smart people If you've already fully rejected the idea that god is a higher power than yourself than you won't like this religion, or if you've completely turned yourself off to the idea that there is something bad inside of you, you won't like it in that case either. This is sort of a spin off from my Emanuel Swedenborg thread as the religion I'm talking about would come directly from his teachings or works. It's somewhat similar to main stream Christianity aside from the fact that there are far less unanswered theological questions in this religion and there are changes in a few key points of doctrine. Swedenborg wrote so many theological works covering so many topics you'd have a hard time finding a question about God, heaven or hell that he doesn't answer. Some of the major differences between the theology of mainstream Christianity and the theology Swedenborg writes of are the following: There is only one God who is the Lord, Jesus Christ. There are not three persons in God. There is only one person in God which is Jesus Christ. You are not saved by 'faith alone'. You are saved through a process called regeneration. In this process you examine your motivations and shun motivations which desire to do things which are against the commandments of the Lord. If you shun these desires for the sake of the Lord, He will remove these desires from you and give you desires which are good. After people die they go either to heaven or hell according the the quality of the desires of their heart. As this is the case, it is not God who sends people to hell. The person, who desires evil, will throw (him)self into hell as that is where (he) feels most at home, in the presence of those similar to (him)self. God is never angry. He is love itself and cannot be angry at us, His creation. Of course there's more. Those just seem to be the most relevant points of the doctrine to me. Any questions are welcome. Last edited by RedRain; 05-30-2010 at 10:08 PM.

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05-30-2010, 10:38 PM	#2 (permalink)
Lucidism Banned Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 668	My suggestion for a religion for smart people: Jedi Church - Jedi Religion and Jedi Faith

05-30-2010, 10:57 PM	#3 (permalink)
desertrat Family Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,881	There are lots of religions . The world would be a boring place if we all thought the same way . The Christan reglion is as good as any . I chalange any one tho. to find in the King James bible any where , where it says my soul goes to hevin if I follow the dictates of the regilon or to hell if I dont. Many years ago a radio preaacher Garner Ted Armstrong offered his personal forthune ( milllions $$) to any one that could find any where in the bible where it stated we go to heven if we are good . desert rat

05-31-2010, 12:51 AM	#4 (permalink)
joelr Family Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,225	I don't see why this would be for "smart people"? It could be for "faithful people" or those who enjoy having to take a large leap of faith. Looking at it in a "smart", logical, historical way, the whole New Testament mythology does not hold up well from an archeologists point of view. NOVA \| The Bible's Buried Secrets \| Archeology of the Hebrew Bible \| PBS Then you also have the council of Nicaea where Constantine and his bishops spent a few years putting the St James Bible together. The Gnostics which were at least 1/2 of Christians were banned as well as the movements that believed Jesus was just a teacher. The Q Gospel done in Germany puts forth huge evidence that the supernatural aspects of Jesus were added sometime around 3AD. That is the same time the council of Nicaea took place. Any text that said Jesus was anything but a supernatural being was outlawed and burned and destroyed all throughout the Middle East and beyond. Some forgeries being added to the Bible were even exposed. Also the symbolism and metaphors in Christianity are found in so many other religions before christianity, from the virgin birth (usually called parthenogenesis), death and resurrection, 12 apostles, Dec 25 birth, spring rebirth.. Many of those were found in Mithras, Horus, Greek and Hindu mythology. The original Zoraster sun mythology celebrated Dec 25, Easter, death-rebirth, 12 apostles and it goes on and on. So the story was originally about the sun Sol. So believing in Christian mythology to be literally true is a faith issue. Not a smarts issue. The odds of that one mythology being actually true while the 1000s of other mythologies are false are non-existent are low. Then you still have to take another leap and believe Swedenborg was actually communicating with the Abrahamic God. Even though every generation has 1000's of folks that claim to be channeling either some version of God or some other being and the accuracy of their claims are unknown. Plus another thing is the Abrahamic God is a Deity. There is no evidence of intervention by God beyond pure chance. For example a Christian may pray and have a miraculous healing of a fatal disease and be healed. But the same happens in all other religions and it happens also to atheist or even evil criminals. Just like any of them could die from a fatal disease. How could I possibly pray to a God that let 64 million Christians die in the black plague? What would I say "I know praying didn't work for 64 million folks, despite repeated begging, but surely my prayers will get answered...." It just doesn't work that way. So God sits back as a Deity, doesn't interfere. Then suddenly, he wants to write a book, becomes a Theist type god and here he is. But then it got screwed up, he's gotta get someone to do some editing. Like he can't manifest a book? There is no "smart" in fundamentalism.

05-31-2010, 01:34 AM	#5 (permalink)
Piercetheveil Family Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,070	Joel, Nice response. Enjoyed the style and language play. Bookmarked.

05-31-2010, 02:56 AM	#6 (permalink)
MidasGirl Family Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Off this forum from 10/27/10 to 10/27/11. Yay me! Posts: 2,944	I'm having a very hard time seeing why it's for smart people, with such assertions that there is only one god, Jesus Christ. Why can't there be only one god, Allah? Or only one God, Ahura Mazda? Or 1 million other "one gods"? What is unsmart about these other gods being the only god?

05-31-2010, 03:10 AM	#8 (permalink)
MidasGirl Family Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Off this forum from 10/27/10 to 10/27/11. Yay me! Posts: 2,944	Absolutely, realizing that God is just a perception. And that that perception takes whatever form you give it (including a penis for the christian God) and also takes on all the powers you give it. And answers to whatever name you call it. Yay.

05-31-2010, 03:17 AM	#9 (permalink)
RedRain Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 627	Smart for a few reasons. Swedenborg had one of the highest IQ's in history. There are no holes in the theology like in some major religions where the default is 'we can't explain, just believe." Also, as I believe it to be true, working from the truth in itself is a smart thing to do. To joelr, much of these similarities your speaking of between Christianity and earlier religions are fabricated and over emphasized. For example, the Bible doesn't say Jesus was born on Dec 25th. That is when people chose to celebrate his birth. To those saying there is nothing smart about it, is it not smart to live life with meaning and joy? Isn't that really the smartest thing to do? To live life with the most meaning and joy possible?

05-31-2010, 05:18 AM	#13 (permalink)
Criseyde Family Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 3,157	What's smart about believing that there's a God existing somewhere Out There (where? if you peel back the sky, is that where he is?) that created everything and then peaced out but expects us to follow some commandments for his sake? And what is his sake, exactly? Will it make him better if we follow them? Will it make him happy? Does he need us to do this? And if he doesn't, why does he want us to? And if he doesn't want us to, why should we do it?

05-31-2010, 09:26 AM	#16 (permalink)
Chris_1977 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 363	I think the smart way to handle religion is to invent your own. We really do not know much about the ultimate nature of reality. Therefore, everybody is free to make up their own religion and probably everybody will come up with something different. This Swedenborg guy seems to be a fan of Jesus Christ but in my opinion it is disempowering to postulate that there is one special person whose level we will never reach. In my religion the growth of any person is unlimited. Besides, Jesus Christ as he is portrayed in the gospel, although an interesting person, also has aspects that I do not like so much. For instance, he talks quite a lot about punishment. Of course, one might be of the opinion that early christianity twisted what Jesus had to say. This is the problem with all religions relying on old books. It just leads to endless discussion about what was meant by certain text fragments and that just is not very useful.

05-31-2010, 11:02 AM	#18 (permalink)
nicbrahms Banned Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: uk Posts: 3,233	The smart thing to do is to live without crutches of anykind, religious or otherwise. There is a consciousnesswhich encompasses all which we perceive or contemplate as God, and although we are God, we are not the greater part of God, for God is all and is omnipotent. In our present awareness we are restricted until we learn to derestrict. On the other hand we are the hands of God and fully connected to the whole and indeed are the whole. Fractals. We create all the time, thats our nature, if and when you leave this existence you will still create and if you see the consciousness as Jesus, or God then you will perceive it as such. It is all creation and perception. The truth is all truths are true.

05-31-2010, 01:24 PM	#19 (permalink)
RedRain Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 627	I guess it makes sense that no one here finds religion appealing. You all seem to make up your own religions which really doesn't make any sense, unless you actually are an atheist and you know you're lying to yourself. Thinking something will be real just because you want it to be is what insane people do. It's complete insanity. I guess if god isn't real a good line of work would be making religions that only serve to make people feel good and selling them. Seriously, go talk to an intelligent atheist and see how much they laugh at you.

05-31-2010, 01:50 PM	#22 (permalink)
elucidate Banned Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 12,751	[QUOTE=RedRain;596033] God's only wish is that we are happy. He only wishes us to look up to Him for the sake of the happiness of everyone. QUOTE] Ah no! Your God wants everyone to feel bad and guilty, not happy! Suffering seems to be the only way to reach heaven...which is where the happiness is waiting What's the point in that? It seems pretty insane to waste ones whole life feeling guilty for a God that may or may not exist...only for the promise of happiness in heaven.

05-31-2010, 02:10 PM	#23 (permalink)
Solipsist Retired Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,303	People, people, people! We all have different paths to the same source. I, for one, will not deride RedRain for being on the path he is. I was once so devout in my religion, I went to mass every day, and I do not regret it, even now. As nicbrahms alluded to, Truth is Truth. As RedRain asserts, Divine Love is for all. Neither of these assertions hurts anyone. Live and let live.

05-31-2010, 03:42 PM	#29 (permalink)
SheldonCooper Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 226	The path to stupidity is paved with attempts to look smart.

05-31-2010, 03:47 PM	#30 (permalink)
Andrew Gubb Family Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Nationality: British Soul: Otherworldly Current Location: Barcelona, Spain Posts: 5,960	Philosophies or religious systems are all well and fine, I prefer not to "have" one though, myself. I know there are a few good ones, but I don't feel I need a system around my beliefs. Makes them too rigid IMO.

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