Your current belief: Is reality subjective, partially subjective, or objective?

[Erock]

Hey I'm curious as to what your guys' current belief on reality is. I know for awhile there Steve was preaching a completely subjective reality, but I don't know if that was just to expand our minds or if he sincerely believes that.

Right now I kind of believe that there is one consciousness that we can all tap into, and ultimately merge with (enlightenment), but that, even if we merge with it, it still would not be completely subjective, but we can definately partially control it. That's why my vote is for partially subjective, but I definately want to hear what you guys think on this, so prove me wrong!

Erock

[judge45]

Great question!

I want to know exactly what bloody hell is going on!!!!!!

I find a level of understanding in subject reality, but it falls over when it comes to the one consciousness part and I'm manifesting everything including my loved ones. What I really what to know is, where do my solutions actually come from.

I set a goal/intention and it manifests, or it gives me the method so I manifest it. I know this is happening, I've seen it. Sometimes the answer pops into my head (where from I have no idea) and sometimes the answer presents itself in reality, without me having to do anything.

What's really kooky is earlier today I was thinking that I was tired of not knowing and wanted some new information to help me figure it out. I came home, came here and there's a post covering this very subject.

So that means that one of you is going to tell me exactly what the #@%&#* is going on. I would like nothing better than the truth to be presented to me.

I suppose the only thing that can happen is that I find an answer that 'feels' right. Right now I'm 70% SR 10% OR and the other 20% is complete confusion. I suppose partial SR is the best I can fathom.

I think total subjective reality is rather pointless, because it means you are God, but you've made yourself somewhat powerless to truly enjoy a physical reality, with that kind of thinking the whole thing gets really messy real fast.

Questions like why bother at all? Why care about anything? If you're truly the one consciousness, then isn't it pointless to even bother with a physical reality? How could physcial reality even rival being God?

Good question, looking forward to reading everyone's take on this.

Jeff

[soccer7]

I tried to believing that my reality is fully subjective, but i just didn't feel comfortable with that, having so many clues against it all. when i go read steve's site i want to believe in subjective reality in order to remove fear from my life. Then when i read Erin's site, which talks about spirituality and such, i get the impression that i should believe in objective reality, so i'm allittle confused about what to believe, my reality swictches alot nowadays.

so i vote for partially subjective. I would only try to use the belief of subjective reality as a tool to remove my fear, then when the occasion arises i would turn back.

[NightOwlNation]

Completely subjective in my beliefs/philosophy. But objective creeps in out of years of habit. But it no longer feels right as a perspective, for me, at all. Subjective answers the questions I had before, ties up all those loose ends in terms of the construction of my reality and the universe. Any questions I still have now fall beyond the realm of subjective/objective/reality creating. Like who or what aspect of Me/The I AM (details please) set up this 'system' in the first place? And where did they/this aspect of Me come from? I also totally accept that the answers to these other kinds of questions may not be something I can understand while "occupying" a physical perspective. Language, as I know it now, may not even relate to it in any way.

[Michael Chui]

Is there a reason the universe can't be both objective and subjective?

[Shaden]

I believe in an objective reality but treat life as a big dream, much like what Steve talks about in "Overcoming Fear". Life is so much simpler with this kind of mentality.

[Frans]

1. I can only perceive reality through my body's senses.
As my senses cannot register everything, and as not everything what I perceive is "real", I can safely assume that I cannot see reality "as it is".
With the filtered input from my senses, I construct a mental image of reality.
What I call "reality" is only a mental image, a perception of reality.
This personal perception of reality is per definition a "subjective reality".

2. Everything in my life happens around me.
I'm in the center of everything that happens.
I have a unique point of view.
It's my life, it's my reality.

3. I have only one certainty, and that is: "I exist".
Nobody can prove that they exist on the same level as me.
Compare it with a lucid dream: In a lucid dream, I'm aware that I'm dreaming, that I am the only "real" person in this dream, while all other people in my dream are trying to convince me that they are as real as me.

4. At first sight, I'm locked up in a bag of skin (my body). To survive, my body must be on a planet where there is enough oxygen, water and food. That planet must have a mild climate, so it must be in orbit around a certain kind of warm star. A star can only be found in a galaxy, etc...
This environment is just as essential to the existence of my body as my internal organs (heart, lungs, brain...). So, if I want to describe myself, I must also describe my environment: my body > Earth > galaxy > universe. If one element is left away, I cannot exist. Therefore, the only correct way to describe myself is: my body is an aspect of mine, the Earth is an aspect of mine, this galaxy is an aspect of mine, the universe is an aspect of mine. In other words: I am the universe, this reality is mine.

Conclusion: whether there is an objective reality is irrelevant, because I can only perceive things when they appear in my (subjective) reality.

[songwriter]

I don't know. I've never understood the Subjective Reality really.

[JHL]

In keeping with the general feeling of things, I, too, am thoroughly confused by the whole subjectivity/objectivity debate. It seems so speculative and so conceptual in nature as to be of no practical use to anyone.

We live in a reality. That is the reality perceived by our senses and I am happy to assume its the same reality everyone else also perceives through their senses. My interpretation of what I perceive is subjective, as is everyone else's.

Hence we have...

JHL's Grand Theory of Life (Trademarked, Watermarked and Landmarked): We all live in the same reality but perceive it somewhat differently.

(Please visit my blog for dates of my up-coming book signing tour, as well release dates of my DVD and DVD companion workbooks, and limited edition JHL action figures.)

[NightOwlNation]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

Is there a reason the universe can't be both objective and subjective?

Well, what has come up for me since my last post here is that there is some sort of 'framework' that allows the subjective reality to be. So I posit that this framework (which may even go beyond the holographic model) is in some way objective. Whether or not I can perceive it as so. Whether or not I can perceive it at all from within the physical experience or otherwise. Though ultimately, as Steve P. offers, subjective reality has much to do with there being the One consciousness only.

[bylto]

Frans, that is a great post!

I think the question is whether or not there is only one consciousness and its yours, no others exist and nothing exists until you observe it - completely subjective.

Or am I just having a subjective experience of an objective universe?

It's all very strange but so interesting

[absvan]

I am trying to shift to subjective reality because I think it helps get rid of fear and negativity. But like others here I have many questions which dont have an answer.

If I have created this whole universe, how did I come here first. (Well one answer is that I have always been here and never changed, but just took another form to experience objective reality) So my parents and my childhood are nothing but just a projection of my consciouness????

Also I dont get it when Steve says the past exists to the degree that I beleive they exist. In reality all the days since my day of birthday till yesterday did exist. How can I choose to beleive that they did not exist??

Any thoughts on this?

[radeldudel]

I, for myself, see this whole reality like a big computer game.

See, if I where to play a character in a computer game, I would select the game to play, I would select what kind of character, then go and immerse myself into the game.
The game in itself is quite pointless - it does not matter if I slay dragons and get rich in WoW as soon as I end the game. Still the game does give me an experience. Thats why I play the game, for experiencing it. For fun.

Now I imagine me being some kind of angelic being, kinda bored on a sunday afternoon, saying, 'heck, I gonna play a round on earth'. Depending on what you want to experience you select your game area, type of creature, select problems you want to experience (I wonder how it is to play someone blind?) and so on.

Then you (angelic being) starts the game, immerses yourself. You here on earth are kind of like an avatar in a computer game. You don't really know about the person guiding you (higher self), you'll just have this nagging feeling there is someone. And yeah, after death the whole game content will get pointless, but the experience for your higher self will not be pointless.

Of course you could go 'if this all is pointless anyway I won't do nothing no more'. Well, have you ever played a game with someone who is not engaged, not interested. It's annoying, it's no fun. Same for you and your Higher Self. You stop immersing, you'll be the most boring player (maybe your higher self wanted to see how it is to be a boring player, though).

I wonder if what the LoA is doing, or things like Erins communication are kind of cheating the game *grin* trying to get a better position in the game by getting stuff from the higher world to help. Hacks. Anyway, as long as those hacks are not banned, why not use them

What I am not sure about is this 'we are all one and the same higher being'. I think we probably meet with other angelic beings, game with them, decide to play as group, or to meet us in the game sometimes.

What do you think of this?

Love you!

[absvan]

[quote]I, for myself, see this whole reality like a big computer game.

See, if I where to play a character in a computer game, I would select the game to play, I would select what kind of character, then go and immerse myself into the game.
QUOTE]

If what you have mentioned is reality then, there is no free will. Destiny has been predefined. If you have chosen your character and your problems, then there is no point of LOA and intention-manifestation because you have chosen a specific set of experiences you wanted and even if you did practice LOA they should not attracts events or experiences that override your "character and game plan".

Does this make sense???

[Acting Like Godot]

The answer does not matter as long as you understand that you have vast, vast potential power to shape your universe.

[radeldudel]

Originally Posted by absvan

If what you have mentioned is reality then, there is no free will. Destiny has been predefined. If you have chosen your character and your problems, then there is no point of LOA and intention-manifestation because you have chosen a specific set of experiences you wanted and even if you did practice LOA they should not attracts events or experiences that override your "character and game plan".

Does this make sense???

In any computer game you played, have you known the result beforehand? Where you unable to steer your character?
When I played online roleplay, I never knew if my character, my goals, my ideas would succeed or fail until I tried.


What I forgot to mention: I don't see me and my higher self as separate beings, just like I don't see me and my computer game character as separate identities. You see, I am my character, and my character is me, kind of.
So my character-I is in control, and my player-I is, too, since we are both the same person.

Like I am in control of my life, as well as my higher self is. I don't have full access to all the knowledge of my higher self, like a gaming character does not have full access to my knowledge (even though I might be able to swim my game character might not have this skill).
And my game character can learn things I can't do, too. Just like I on earth can learn things my higher self cant do.

Makes more sense now?

[Sunny]

When discussing objective vs subjective reality it is important to have an understanding of the Levels of Consciousness (LOC) as described by Hawkins. Our individual and unique experience of reality (note the lower case "r") gradually changes as we move through the LOC. So instead of thinking about it in black and white terms we need to think of it more as shades of grey. At the lower ends of the LOC your experience is of a mostly objective world, where everything is separate from you. There is a tipping point between "Courage" and "Neutrality." In these middle ranges your experience is more of a balance between objective and subjective, where you begin to focus on relationships with others and even community. There is another tipping point between "Reason" and "Love". At the higher LOC your experience becomes more dominated by the subjective and you begin to focus on the unity of all things. As you move through the LOC your experience of reality (note the lower case "r") gradually gets closer and closer to true Reality (note the upper case "R") as described my all of the great mystical teachers such as Buddha, Jesus and Krishna so that when you reach the highest state of Enlightenment you are experiencing Reality (note the capital "R") yourself which is purely subjective.

So the reason it is difficult to discuss the concept of objective vs subjective reality with others is because we are all at different LOC so our experience of reality is different. When you are at one LOC you "resonate" with others at your same level so you tend to flock together, you think the people at a LOC below you are "immature" and you think that people at a LOC above you are "crazy" . I put the words "resonate", "immature" and "crazy" in quotes because once you understand this concept you stop judging people for where they are and begin to realize that everyone is in the perfect place for their own personal evolution and that no LOC is better or worse than another. An additional complicating factor to understanding objective vs subjective reality is that our LOC may be evolving during our own lifetime so our experience of reality tends to change on us.

So the bottom line is that your experience of an objective or subjective world is relative to your LOC. So by playing around with the idea of subjective reality you are likely to raise your LOC and you might even jump to the point where you begin to experience your own reality in a totally different way. Now that is cool.............

[Simmiah]

I read some of Steve's stuff where he says he believes there is a subjective & an objective reality constantly interacting. I am in some agreement with what I believe he said.

I do believe there is a subjective me.. perhaps you could call it the ego/mind that sees what a person says/does or perhaps an event on television on the news & it perceives it a particular way. However what I think/feel as a result of the person or event on the news is a projection of me by my mind/ego about the event. You could even get to the point where it's like the matrix.. it's all not exactly really out there as much as in here.

I have no clue if I make a flibbit of any sense but there are great teachers who I honestly think can explain this better. I do think there is an objective reality we are all participating in but so much of the world is subjective too. I hope it makes sense.

However in a way all that matters to me in terms of transcending my fears (that's my personal issue right now) it seems.. I must focus more on my subjective focus. What happens outside does not matter nearly as much to me now as what happens inside. Geez. I think I'm babbling.

[mysterygal]

I believe that Steve is incorrect in some of his assumptions. He says that everything in our reality is a manifestation of your consciousness. In saying so, that would suggest that you are the only conscious being. It would also suggest that the entire history of the world is just a fabrication of your consciousness. That is just not true. I have a bunch of conscious grandparents who would tell you that life did indeed exist before you came to the planet. This forum is a perfect example. There are people here, contributing their thoughts and conscious ideas, all coming from different times(of all different ages). If what Steve said is true, and everything is just a manifestation of your thought, then only one person contributing to this forum could be conscious. We all know that isn't true.

I think everyone lives within a subjective reality. Meaning that our perceptions, history, and thoughts help shape the reality that we experience. Infact, science is showing that everything is just energy. And our senses, and time perception are what make us think we are observing solid objects and so on. So, in the end we are all experiencing subjective realities. What do you guys think?

[mysterygal]

Did you guys ever think that we are all just part of a computer program? Our future is predetermined in the sense that the program is already in existence, and we are simply navigating it. Yet, what we make of that program, and what we become isn't predetermined, because we are the variables.