Why do people believe in Energy

[thef0x]

The concept of energy is a floating signifier: it has multiple, diverse meanings.

Many people do not understand the concept of energy in physics, a concept created by Einstein.

e=mc^2

Energy = mass times acceleration.

This means that at the speed we travel in as humans, we are both energy and mass (e/m=c^2).




People decide that, because we can think of ourselves as energy, there is a conscious, willful, universe that can listen to our english language and respond to our "energy".

I just do not understand this at all.

I'm so for personal development and I think these beliefs are delusional and life-negating.

I don't mean to be rude but I just don't understand why such a majority of people believe these fairy-tales on such an emotional level. It's a form of addiction.

Balance.

[starseed]

Mass and acceleration are not separate from energy, they are measurable properties of it some of us have chosen to define it by. Mass is a way for us to measure energy, it's another one of our attempts at trying to understand something non tangible.

[Holistic Star]

For me it isn't question of blind faith. I can feel it. I can feel energy move, and make it flow. I experience it every day. What convinces me is when I do some energy work on someone and I ask them to describe what they feel and their description is congruent with my experience, without me having told them first what I feel. I have taught (some skeptical) people simple exercises to feel the energy around them in under 5 minutes. After a few minutes of focused attention, the majority of people are able to sense and experience energy moving through them and around them. I'm not the sort of person that blindly takes things on trust. I spend 2 years playing with and learning about energy before even discussing it with my husband for fear he would think I was nuts! It was only when I was 100% sure of what I was experiencing that I came out of the energy closet (as it were).

The problem we have is that we are using the same word for entirely different meanings. This is a failing of the English language and is probably reflected in the fact that in English speaking cutures the concept of life-force energy isn't generally understood so there isn't a proper word for it and one that was already in existence has be co-opted. The energy I am talking about is called chi, or prana in other languages. It isn't the same thing as the scientific concept of energy and shouldn't be mistaken as such.

[Akashic_Librarian]

The words are for your benefit, not the universes. Its all about vibrations.

[Antiventurecapital]

What I always find amusing is the assertion that since we are "energy",we cannot die because energy cannot die. What people who claim this are missing is that energy is not the same as consciousness. After you die there isn't a little cloud of energy floating up in space which thinks of itself as "Vinnie Pavolini from da Bronx".

Humans are prepared to believe the most cockamamie stories because of their fear of death. We'd all be far better off focusing on making the most of our 70 odd years here on earth.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by thef0x

People decide that, because we can think of ourselves as energy, there is a conscious, willful, universe that can listen to our english language and respond to our "energy".

The problem in your understanding is that you're assuming we're distinct beings, an Island unto ourselves. But that's also the same problem most people have.

[DoAnyOfYouExist]

Good question because it made me ask myself this, "If everything is an illusion, is energy an illusion?"

[ionsteed]

For me, the way that "energy" is used in spiritualism, basically is another word for feelings; emotions. Sure, this isn´t a scientific approach, but it works rather fine in describing the experience of living.

[Glass Joe]

Originally Posted by thef0x

People decide that, because we can think of ourselves as energy, there is a conscious, willful, universe that can listen to our english language and respond to our "energy".

I just do not understand this at all.

I'm so for personal development and I think these beliefs are delusional and life-negating.

I think I understand your frustration, thef0x. I think it's good to have a balance between skepticism and open-mindedness, and not to simply accept things on blind faith nor reject things simply because they don't make logical sense right away. Personally, if I had to choose, I'm probably like you - I'd rather err on the side of blind skepticism than blind faith.

But even though I personally don't say things like "I am energy" or that "the universe responds to our energy", I can usually understand what people mean when they say it. I know I can't change your thoughts about "energy" or your paradigm of reality in the space of this single post, but you might want to look into books by:

Erwin Schrodinger (Nobel prize winning quantum physicist)
Fritjof Capra (author of Tao of Physics)
David Bohm (quantum physicist)
Ken Wilber (philosopher)
Anything on "systems theory"

But even after reading 10 books, 20 books, 50 books!, you probably won't go run out in the streets and yell "I am energy!" I sure didn't. But the authors listed above definitely helped to soften the boundaries I drew around my world; and brought a lot of doubts upon what I considered to be "reality", and what I considered to be "absolutely positively irrevocably true", and what I considered to be the separations between matter and energy. And this softening of beliefs and collapsing of boundaries leads to a more open mind to ideas about "seeing ourselves as energy" and believing the "universe responds to our energy".

As a side note, personally, I don't use the word "energy" that much, at least not in the spiritual or meta-physical sense. "Energy" has so many meanings in everyday language already, that it's hard to distinguish what people are even talking about when they use it in a spiritual or meta-physical sense. Same goes for the word "soul". But it's all good. I mean, I tend to use the word "resonate" a lot, even though it isn't the proper English way to use of the word.

Anyways, I can't go into the entire thought process that brought Erwin Schrodinger to his conclusions about reality. First of all, I didn't know what he believed and didn't believe at various points in time. And even if I did know, there wouldn't be enough space to write it all out here. But I do know that he was pretty familiar with Einstein's work. And since it sounds like you enjoy reading/discussing physics, then maybe you might want to check out Schrodinger if you are academically interested in physics or read Tao of Physics if you just have a passing interest in physics.

Also, if it helps, here's a quote from Schrodinger that I read a few years ago. It really confused me at first, and I think it even made me a little mad (What the hell is this guy talking about?!). But looking back, I think this particular quote helped me tremendously along my own path (I absolutely had to look into this more and see it for myself.).

Disclaimer: And just because I'm quoting him here, that doesn't mean I think Schrodinger would automatically accept everything talked about here in these forums. Or even the many different ideas about "energy" and the many different ways the word is used. So a healthy skepticism is always good.

It is not possible that this unity of knowledge, feeling and choice which you call your own should have sprung into being from nothingness at a given moment not so long ago; rather this knowledge, feeling and choice are essentially eternal and unchangeable and numerically one in all men, nay in all sensitive beings. But not in this sense—that you are a part, a piece, of an eternal, infinite being, an aspect or modification of it, as in Spinoza's pantheism. For we should have the same baffling question: which part, which aspect are you? What, objectively, differentiates it from the others? No, but inconceivable as it seems to ordinary reason, you—and all other conscious beings as such—are all in all. Hence this life of yours which you are living is not merely a piece of the entire existence, but is in a certain sense the whole; only this whole is not so constituted that it can be surveyed in one single glance.

Thus you can throw yourself flat on the ground, stretched out upon Mother Earth, with the certain conviction that you are one with her and she with you. You are as firmly established, as invulnerable as she, indeed a thousand times firmer and more invulnerable. As surely as she will engulf you tomorrow, so surely will she bring you forth anew to new striving and suffering. And not merely 'some day': now, today, every day she is bringing you forth, not once but thousands upon thousands of times, just as every day she engulfs you a thousand times over. For eternally and always there is only now, one and the same now; the present is the only thing that has no end.

-- Erwin Schrodinger, from My View of the World (1964)

So basically, when most people say that "we can think of ourselves as energy", they usually mean it in this "oneness" sense talked about above where matter and energy aren't seen as separate. So using the word "energy" in this context implies a oneness that's in motion, dynamic, living, growing, evolving. Rather than everything being one, yet frozen and simply sitting still and not moving.

And when most people say that the "universe responds to our energy", they also usually mean it in this "oneness" sense too. (And now that I think about it, I can see how frustrating it can be for some people, with how the word "energy" is used so interchangeably to mean so many different things. Even in purely the meta-physical sense.) But "energy" used in this context, usually means something more like "emotion-filled and desire-filled thoughts".

[songwriter]

Energy is inside you and me. It's what makes me write this. It's what me go after what I want. It was defines me, I think. It's kind of a... intern acceleration or so... You need to move mass... to think, to feel... you know. All inside of you. Energy is what makes your neurones work.

[Liara Covert]

Being composed of energy gives us a capacity for vigorous activity. We choose how to channel it. Whether or not we feel our energy is adequate or abundant enough would be a value judgment. How we choose to reveal and exert energy can enable us to share power or forceful expressions.

Physics dictates that energy measures the capacity to do work on a system. We all have hidden potential energy that we haven't yet accessed.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Liara Covert

Being composed of energy gives us a capacity for vigorous activity. We choose how to channel it. Whether or not we feel our energy is adequate or abundant enough would be a value judgment. How we choose to reveal and exert energy can enable us to share power or forceful expressions.

Physics dictates that energy measures the capacity to do work on a system. We all have hidden potential energy that we haven't yet accessed.

This is unfortunately the precise kind of perspective that annoyed the f0x in the first place.

[Liara Covert]

I'll offer a few examples that further clarify my understanding of energy:

An energetic child, let's call her Cathy, discovered that she loved to run. She chose to spend more time focusing her energy on training to run longer races. Her progress led coaches to hear about her. You might say she attracted them to her. With help, she built endurance and decided her goal would be to win an Olympic gold medal. Many people told her she couldn't do this. They reasoned, she wasn't "built to be a runner," and "didn't have what it takes." She chose to nurture stronger beliefs that she would succeed. In her mind, the universe responded by offering her opportunities, qualifying events, funding sources and other circumstances she had to recognize to move forward. She sensed her enthusiam grow and channelled energy to develop her skills to surpass her expectations of her potential.

For more information, see: Amazon.com: Cathy: Her Own Story with Scott Gullan: Books: Cathy Freeman

Another example of an energetic boy we'll call Al. His own mother was scared of him from birth because of his large and oddly shaped head. Though the size of his head appeared less distracting as he grew, his parents and teachers worried about his learning capacities because of his initial language delay and speech difficulties until the age of nine. Although he was surrounded by discouraging, negative energy, he had the will to focus his mental energy and became one of the top students in his elementary school. You might say the universe responded to his ability to excel by offering his circumstances that would permit him to continue learning. Of course, he had to be open to opportunity and aware enough to make choices. His passions for learning led him to continue to focus energy into research, which prompted him to ask further questions. He regularly invited fervent opposition, yet, eventually attracted him much respect and the Nobel Prize in Physics (1921).

Albert Einstein - Biography

If the energy we choose to listen to is the core of our passion, and this is what drives us, then we seem to tap into an unlimited source of motivation. Notice how opportunities arise if we go after things, and once we see them, we can seize them. I disagree that beliefs about energy and universal balance are delusional or self-defeating. Consider Newton's Third Law of Physics which states that 'for every action, there exists an equal and opposite reaction.' Where does that idea come from? How could it apply? In terms of how your life evolves, you could say Higher Forces or the Universe reverberrate according to your choices. Sensing energy within enables people to discover and develop talents and learn about themselves. Misunderstanding your needs and abilities can lead to a very different situation.

[Michael Chui]

Liara, I understand what you mean by energy. The problem is that you're pretending it's physics by quoting laws and definitions that don't have a direct bearing on the actual subject.

[Erki]

I have a little question: what's the difference between Chi/qi/ki energy and psi/psychic energy? Or are they the same thing?

[Glass Joe]

I have a question too: what about energy bars and energy drinks?

[mtrimpe]

Thef0x, stop judging what people say by their words.
If you heard someone speak Swahili and every couple of sentences or so, you would hear them say a swearword. Would you get really angry at them? Or would you think, what do these words mean in Swahili? That's fun, that our swearwords are regular words for them!

What you need is a translator. Let me translate some of these energy phrases:

1. She costs/gives me energy -> After I've been with her, I feel worse/better.

2. Make my energy flow -> Focusing on the sensations in my body, perceiving feelings such as relaxation, joy, fatigue, stress etc. and consciously choosing to change the perception of those feelings from different parts of my body.

3. Doing energy work -> Becoming full of all kinds of positive feelings, such as joy, healing and relaxation and transferring these to the other person. Many believe it's through their hands/aura that this transfer happens, it can just as much take place through their voice, breathing and facial expression.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by mtrimpe

Thef0x, stop judging what people say by their words.

I'm curious, what do you propose as an alternative?

[Angela]

I think what mtrimpe was implying is that insistence on a dictionary or scientific definition of energy, while at the same time understanding from context the more new-agey use of the word, creates discord and inhibits understanding. Thinking about energy in this way simply works for some people; I can't see any harmful effects -- can you? I get how annoying it is, though, when folks collapse the new-agey and the scientificky together, and then want to eat their cake, too.

thefOx, you said that believing in energy (new-agey) is life-negating. How so? It seems to me that many people who interact with a new-agey style of energy have tremendous vitality. Do you think all faithheads are also life-negating? Just because you're delusional doesn't necessarily mean your beliefs are killing off life.

[andrew]

Something only means what meaning we give to it.

[qiflow]

I have been practicing qigong for 3 years now and I feel energy (or what I assume to be energy sensations) all through my body when I practice. I can't say for sure whether it is energy, but I can't prove that you exist either. I have a certain level of faith based on my own experiences that what I am feeling is energy. For me it is very life-affirming to believe this.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by andrew

Something only means what meaning we give to it.

Yes, we. So what happens when we disagree?

[Liara Covert]

Hi qiflow.

I relate to what you say about experiencing 'energy.' I practice tai chi and aikido and sense a kind of resistence as well as complimentary forces around me. How I perceive my feelings enables me to reaffirm where I am. I choose to believe I work in parallel with this energy to influence the sensations and benefits I experience. I also sense this energy is connected to something greater than myself. I have faith that everything in the Universe can be interpreted as visible or not visible to our senses based on vibration or combination of vibrations. Every atom, or part of an atom, every electron, or every elementary “particle”, even our thoughts and awareness can be read as vibrations in relation to each other.

[mtrimpe]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

I'm curious, what do you propose as an alternative?

Maybe understanding should take precedence over judgement? I don't know, just a wild idea ...

[Glass Joe]

Hehe... this reminds of an argument (playful, not confrontational) I had with a classmate many years ago. She really liked to use the word "love" a lot (way too much IMO), to describe many different feelings for many different things. Almost everything. I remember one day getting annoyed with her about this, so I started bugging her about using more detailed words to describe what she was feeling.

How about words like, I don't know, "tastes good", "comfortable", "soothing", "mildly fond of", "mutual respect for", "acceptable", "cozy", etc...? And what about the differences between the way you feel about your mom vs. the way you feel about your country vs. the way you feel about your cat vs. the way you feel about your blankets when you're sleeping in, etc.? And, I don't know, what about the differences between "devotion", "compassion", "altruism", "affection", "romance", "seduction", "puppy love", etc...? Well you get the idea.

Anywho, as I was listing off all these different ways to describe love, her facial expression slowly went...

from this:
to this:

She was kind of a brat, so she pretty much told me in a nice-but-not-so-nice way where I could go stick my long list of words.

No matter what I said, she was sticking with the word "love" and didn't really feel the need to use anything else. My arguing with her only seemed to strengthen her resolve. I guess she didn't want to be burdened by all these variations and degrees of the word "love". So yeah, now that I think about it, I guess sometimes people can err on the other side too, and be way too descriptive, and use way too many words to try to describe something.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by mtrimpe

Maybe understanding should take precedence over judgement? I don't know, just a wild idea ...

That depends. What do you mean by "understanding", "precedence", and "judgement"? I wouldn't want to judge you by your words or anything, but just maybe you're speaking Swahili and I don't understand you. How would I know?

[Liara Covert]

I like Andrew's comment: "Something only means what meaning we give to it"
Did you know that as you read words, you create where they go next? Everything that you perceive and create is already there, in some form, although you may not yet be aware that you created it.

[rush23]

I've noticed something about these forums - it's becoming a haven for skeptics to vent and critique the various topics discussed here. By all means, a healthy dose of skepticism is good for growth and makes for good debate. However weren't these forums created so that people interested in PD can talk, discuss, debate and share. It's seems that almost every thread especially in the I-M section is started by a skeptic that launches an attack on what is discussed. I'm all for freedom of speech, but how does attacking what most people advocate promote personal development and growth. If you believe in something, good for you. If you don't, good for you too.

As for energy, I believe everything is energy. I feel it every day in my life and have used it to improve my life.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by rush23

I've noticed something about these forums - it's becoming a haven for skeptics to vent and critique the various topics discussed here. By all means, a healthy dose of skepticism is good for growth and makes for good debate. However weren't these forums created so that people interested in PD can talk, discuss, debate and share. It's seems that almost every thread especially in the I-M section is started by a skeptic that launches an attack on what is discussed. I'm all for freedom of speech, but how does attacking what most people advocate promote personal development and growth. If you believe in something, good for you. If you don't, good for you too.

As for energy, I believe everything is energy. I feel it every day in my life and have used it to improve my life.

The best way to strengthen one's conclusions is to have them attacked, over and over, and being able to logically hold your ground. If you can't hold your ground, then you're probably wrong and you'll have learned it. If you can, then that gives credence to your conclusions.

I would challenge any I-M believer to go through this folder, find as many criticisms as they can, and dismantle them logically. I think you can do it; I don't drop in here very often, but I haven't seen any decent attacks, valid as they might be in spirit.

Or start a thread inviting attacks and try to funnel critics there. Get it stickied, even. Wikipedia has a page dedicated to flaws in Wikipedia; why not here?

(Btw, over in some of the other forums, you have similar things going on. So it's not just IM.)