Thought Affects/Controls Matter?

[DerekMB]

Would you say you agree that consciousness or thought controls the body?

But the body is a physical thing: muscles, bones, skin, etc...

Thought is a non-physical thing that is said to be the essence of who we are or what it means to be human. If thought can control physical things like the body (muscles, bones, tendons, etc...), shouldn't it be able to control physical things in general?

For example, can thought control computers?

Can thought, essentially, infest itself within other matter or complex things like microprocessors?

[themaster]

Ummm.. yes, yes and yes..

Here's a good question..

Why do computers break?

Thoughts

Does a certain scientist(s) out there have a experiment that shows peoples thoughts affect computers?

Yes

The Global Consciousness Project Meaningful Correlations in Random Data

Thoughts, words can change the formation of water molecules.. it can enhance plants growth or make it worse (depending on the words)

[royster]

Hi, Derek! Another "thoughtful" posting of yours...I always enjoy them.

It has been proven that thought affects matter...this is one reason we've never really been able to "see" an atom. If the theory proves correct, thought prompted the universe's creation, and has been conducting it ever since. Studying the "holographic universe" one begins to understand how successful the illussion of thought IS. I'm confident this can't be stated in mathematical terms, because there are some bends and twists in the Creation which defy a scientific gauge-device, including math. In short:

Sometimes Love is the only bridge to your next destination.

[DerekMB]

interesting comments guys. I'm a man of science though royster

Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain%E2%80%93computer_interface

A brain–computer interface (BCI), sometimes called a direct neural interface or a brain–machine interface, is a direct communication pathway between a brain and an external device. BCIs are often aimed at assisting, augmenting or repairing human cognitive or sensory-motor functions.

Rats implanted with these BCI's... Neurons which make up the brain and entirety of the nervous system which consciousness or information resides and flows through. BCI's are compatible with Neurons; consciousness or thought information can flow through computational devices like computers.



This monkey appears to be controlling a robotic arm with thought.



This man is blind except the BCI he is wearing over his eye allows him to perceive some light:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Dobelle's first prototype was implanted into "Jerry", a man blinded in adulthood, in 1978. A single-array BCI containing 68 electrodes was implanted onto Jerry’s visual cortex and succeeded in producing phosphenes, the sensation of seeing light. The system included cameras mounted on glasses to send signals to the implant. Initially, the implant allowed Jerry to see shades of grey in a limited field of vision at a low frame-rate. This also required him to be hooked up to a two-ton mainframe, but shrinking electronics and faster computers made his artificial eye more portable and now enable him to perform simple tasks unassisted.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by DerekMB

Would you say you agree that consciousness or thought controls the body?

But the body is a physical thing: muscles, bones, skin, etc...

Thought is a non-physical thing that is said to be the essence of who we are or what it means to be human. If thought can control physical things like the body (muscles, bones, tendons, etc...), shouldn't it be able to control physical things in general?

For example, can thought control computers?

Can thought, essentially, infest itself within other matter or complex things like microprocessors?

Hi Derek,

I've been giving this a lot of thought, pardon the pun, and personally I think thoughts only control the outer body e.g clean your teeth, and not the 'workings' e.g. heart keep pumping, on the inside. Although, I do believe 'states' of being have an effect on our health, which is on the inside. So essentially, I would say our thoughts do interact with the physical body, but don't control it.

I also feel that we put too much emphasis on the actual thoughts and what they mean to us, because it will not be the thought once it becomes energy. Energy is energy. My theory is that the energy we emit from thoughts vibrates at different levels depending upon the emotion or desire or the strongest feeling attached to the thoughts. They can be negative or positive and everything inbetween.

In answer to your question of :Can thought, essentially, infest itself within other matter or complex things like microprocessors? I would say yes but depending upon the intensity of the thoughts. I don't necessarily think the 'thoughts' themselves will manifest but the energy behind the thoughts(fear, love, stress etc,) will have an effect somewhere.

For example on a personal level, we could be thinking "I hate you and I wish you were dead" and it would have no effect on the person it is aimed at. However, the negative emotion behind the thoughts would create a negtive energy and your t.v. might break down. regards

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Maguru

I've been giving this a lot of thought, pardon the pun, and personally I think thoughts only control the outer body e.g clean your teeth, and not the 'workings' e.g. heart keep pumping, on the inside. Although, I do believe 'states' of being have an effect on our health, which is on the inside. So essentially, I would say our thoughts do interact with the physical body, but don't control it.

But I can control my heart rate. Here's how I did it, while my heart was being monitored on an ECG machine:

Let's talk about physical healing?

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

But I can control my heart rate. Here's how I did it, while my heart was being monitored on an ECG machine:

Let's talk about physical healing?

Interesting.I think that is what I meant by 'states of being'. Your relaxation and focus effectively slowed your heart rate, not just the thoughts without the action.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by themaster

Ummm.. yes, yes and yes..

Here's a good question..

Why do computers break?

Because the profits will go down if they don't.

[Mounds]

The autonomic nervous system controls many of those functions like heart rate. Not really affected by your thoughts but more by your state (ie. if your nervous, your HR goes up).

[rei]

Originally Posted by Mounds

The autonomic nervous system controls many of those functions like heart rate. Not really affected by your thoughts but more by your state (ie. if your nervous, your HR goes up).

your thoughts can easily influence your state.

ex: "i really like that girl, ohmygoodnessshejustlookedoverhere whatdoido???!!!"
(= pulse goes up)

or

"i am not this car. i am not this traffic. i am at peace."
(= pulse at a healthier rate, more or less/more likely to be)

my pulse is usually 60-80 bpm, even if i have just smoked a cigarette (additive-free ones, if anyone cares). with the same stipulation, my blood pressure is usually around 112/65. it's not lifestyle that gives me good markers for physical health. it's not genetics either, other vital signs run in my family. it's not a "stress-free" career either, i've been doing a ton of things lately that others would label stressful (though i choose not to classify it that way most of the time). it's the landscape of my mind, and how that affects the state my CNS responds to.

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by DerekMB

Would you say you agree that consciousness or thought controls the body?

The body consciousness controls the body. I may experience thoughts while the body is doing its thing, but I don't need thoughts to move or breathe.

Originally Posted by DerekMB

But the body is a physical thing: muscles, bones, skin, etc...

With what we currently know, the body really is almost nothing. It's light.

Originally Posted by DerekMB

Thought is a non-physical thing that is said to be the essence of who we are or what it means to be human. If thought can control physical things like the body (muscles, bones, tendons, etc...), shouldn't it be able to control physical things in general?

My essence is the essence of who I am. I may have thoughts about myself, but they are not what I am or the essence of what I am. My thoughts are just one way of experiencing myself. They don't control anything just like my hearing doesn't control anything. Hearing does let me experience myself.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by DerekMB

Can thought, essentially, infest itself within other matter

I will share two more perspectives on this. The first is occult, the second is scientific.

From the occult perspective, yes, it is quite possible. Many different occult traditions say so. Inserting thoughts into objects is the basis for creating magical objects. Every time you hear about things like "holy water"; a "lucky stone", "sacred amulet", "cursed object", you're basically hearing about this phenomenon.

There are a bunch of basic principles, on how to create such objects (naturally, I discourage all of you from attempting to create cursed objects; we are nice, kindly people, aren't we). But we digress from the topic, and anyway I must say this is one area of the occult where I have not got much practical experience.

Now, the scientific perspective. I'm going to refer you to a few experiments by William Tiller, a professor of engineering, at Stanford University. Here's one example - read this, about the camera that was affected by the man's intention "to reveal God's universe":

subtle-energies

There are others, involving anything from fruit fly eggs, to rooms, to the pH of water samples, being affected by thoughts.

[themaster]

Originally Posted by DerekMB

Can thought, essentially, infest itself within other matter or complex things like microprocessors?

Alright since goddite addressed the question.. I'll have another go.. I validate what goddite was saying.. but he is a evil karma guy!

My understanding is.. and no I can't prove it.. that those things we call negative beliefs, definitions etc. manifest physically into illness.. that's just one physical way they manifest in the body..

It's also my understanding that those fears we take on and limitations (beliefs and definitions again) can actually take areas of the body to weigh themselves down in.. so yes, thoughts that become beliefs become physical weights almost

[DerekMB]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Now, the scientific perspective. I'm going to refer you to a few experiments by William Tiller, a professor of engineering, at Stanford University. Here's one example - read this, about the camera that was affected by the man's intention "to reveal God's universe":


There are others, involving anything from fruit fly eggs, to rooms, to the pH of water samples, being affected by thoughts.

I've been doing research and I am gradually more and more coming to the conclusion that waves define reality and there are specific types of wave patterns for specific types of things.

I don't really know how many different types of waves and/or wave patterns there are but I think it may be infinite, or at least a ridiculously large number.

Since it has been found that all matter exists most simply as waves of energy, and energy composes matter, then there are an infinite amount of different types of matter as there are an infinite amount of types of waves.

I think there will be new scientific breakthrough's and interest in these ideas in the coming years. At the least I think that physics will have to admit, once and if they solve many fundamental problems, that wave dynamics - classifying, organizing, controlling, etc... - is the future of physics and will lead to all of the scientific breakthroughs people have almost come to expect over the years like anti-gravity, infinite "free energy", or "ray guns".

We are discovering, it seems, that we can cause complex chain reactions within systems by doing very small and simple things. Traditionally, this has been referred to as chaos theory, however it's not really chaos, we just don't have all the information we need to be able to understand or control at present. That is quickly changing as information or computing technology is advancing at a very fast rate. Most commonly chaos theory is known as the Butterfly Effect: The idea that something as small as a butterfly can cause a chain reaction just by flapping it's wings that could eventually result in a tornado.

Soon I believe people will begin to experiment with harnessing wave power. The greatest thing is that anyone can do this, I think it's only a matter of time before enough people figure out its possible. Any and all waves can be amplified, the same as a light wave can be amplified to produce a laser. Eventually we will want to amplify our brain waves too I think, which usually carry frequencies between between 0-40 Hertz.

[Silenced140]

Your thoughts give control, but your emotion to go along with those thoughts will give the energy to make **** actually happen.


Thats why people that are passionate about something always get what they want.

[InnerChallenge]

Originally Posted by Silenced140

Your thoughts give control, but your emotion to go along with those thoughts will give the energy to make **** actually happen.


Thats why people that are passionate about something always get what they want.

Amen to that! Thoughts, emotions AND taking action will guarantee success in something you are passionate about!

[seeds]

Originally Posted by DerekMB

Would you say you agree that consciousness or thought controls the body?

But the body is a physical thing: muscles, bones, skin, etc...

Thought is a non-physical thing that is said to be the essence of who we are or what it means to be human. If thought can control physical things like the body (muscles, bones, tendons, etc...), shouldn't it be able to control physical things in general?

For example, can thought control computers?

Can thought, essentially, infest itself within other matter or complex things like microprocessors?

Hi DerekMB (good questions),

The moment we are jettisoned from our mother’s womb, the process of taking our first breath not only “wakes us up” into the subjective dimension of our newly created minds, but also draws our consciousness out into the physical matter of our bodies.

Using your word, our consciousness then “infests” the body itself (I like the words "saturates" or “imbues” better; less negative sounding).

The miraculous construction of our brains, in conjunction with the ubiquitous branching of the nervous system throughout the matter of the body, acts as an “interface” between mind and matter. So think of that first breath (sometimes accompanied by stimulating the bottoms of the feet) as something that summons-fourth our awareness from the inward and subjective dimension of our minds and out into the objective reality of the universe.

Furthermore, through the nervous system we are then able to control the body (as you pointed out – flex muscles, blink eyes, smile, etc.)

The point is that any interaction between our minds and the matter of the universe will always require some kind of “bridging” interface such as the brain/nervous system (or the various external devices mentioned by you in a later post). We will never be able to directly control universal matter with our wills in the same way that we control the mental imaging substances within our own minds.

To understand what I am getting at, if you create the image of an apple before the eye of your mind, you alone control the substance forming that apple. That apple image is thoroughly imbued (“infested”) with your life essence. It directly responds to your “thoughts” (your will). There is no “bridging interface” required between your will and the substance forming the inner reality of your mind.

You can even take that apple image and transform it into a tropical island scene with the pulp of the apple forming the beach, the apple skin forming the palm trees, and the apple juice forming the ocean waves caressing the shore. (Taste the waves – it's apple juice! Granny Smith? McIntosh? Red Delicious? Your call.)

Furthermore, no other living consciousness existing outside of your mind can reach into your mind and change that tropical scene into something else by directly accessing your mental essence with their will. Their thoughts cannot “infest” and control that scene.

The interior reality of your mind and the substance within it represents a separate dimension of reality that is “closed” unto itself, and is owned completely, and only, by you.

The ultimate point is that the universe is also a separate dimension of reality, closed unto itself, whose interior substance is “owned” by another individual consciousness. And the only reason we are experiencing this other Being's inner reality right now is because our minds are held within bodies that are part of the reality itself.

(Again, our consciousness comes into existence via the advanced construction of the brain and body formed in the womb. At birth, the consciousness not only awakens unto itself, but also awakens-forth into the matter of the body via the nervous system, allowing it to control the body. Furthermore, the body is constructed with five sensory “windows” that allow the consciousness to peer into the inner spatial dimension of another Being's mind – a mind that created the body.)

So what I am saying is that our individual minds, via the “multi-sensory interface” of our bodies, are literally held within the interior reality of another Being’s consciousness – a consciousness so advanced that its very thought structures (bodies, trees, planets, suns) appear to us as what seems to be "natural" or even "serendipitous" occurring phenomena. Yet it is all a product of mind and consciousness.





What we are viewing when looking at a "real" tropical beach is merely a super-advanced version of that apple beach in our minds – nothing more, nothing less. They are both created from a similar malleable substance through-which consciousness creates reality.

In "quantum" terms, if you break down the matter composing a rock (or the skin, bones, and muscles of your body) to its most fundamental essence, it appears to be composed of a substance that isn't quite "real" itself, but can become anything real that consciousness can "imagine" it to become (and that is pure quantum science).

Now just break down the apple beach scene in your mind to its most fundamental level and you’ll find the same phenomenon. The rock and the apple beach merely exist in two separate dimensions of mind, each with a separate owner (one of which being billions of years in advance of the other).

So in reference to your OP, humans may someday be able to create extremely advanced matter based interfaces that work off of electrical impulses from our brains that, in turn, trip computer relays to perform all kinds of matter manipulating functions (just by our “thinking” something). But at no time can our thoughts "infest" objective reality in a way that resembles the interior of our minds.

Note: What I am trying to clarify here is that a particular thought may indeed produce a unique electrical waveform signature that a physical receiver can translate as being an “intention” (probably what the "BCI" you mentioned, already does). This thought based intention (example: “make me a sandwich”) could then set off pre-configured "microprocessors" connected to devices intended to manipulate matter in accordance with the “intention” (like the word-based replicator in Star Trek, perhaps). However, it can never be a direct will-to-matter manipulation, like changing a No. 2 pencil into a butterfly just by thinking it, the way you changed the apple into the tropical scene.

Therefore, the bottom line is that just as we cannot reach into the informational fabric of each other’s minds and “directly” wield and manipulate each other’s mental holography, neither can we reach into the informational fabric of God’s mind ("infesting" the quantum, so to speak) in such a way that would allow us to “directly” wield and manipulate God’s mental holography.

Some kind of mind/matter "bridge" will always be required.

(Our ability to flex and move our bodies is probably the closest we will ever come to “quasi-directly” manipulating another Being’s mental imaging energy, but only until our minds are “born out” of God’s mind through death.)


seeds

[OlderWiser]

Originally Posted by seeds

The moment we are jettisoned from our mother’s womb, we usually get slapped on the butt.

Uhm, that's not really done, or at least, it hasn't been for more than half a century. Physically slapping a newborn infant on any part of their body is not really helpful in any way and can do neurological damage. If they're not breathing (which is what the slap is supposed to stimulate), they have their mouth and airway suctioned and may get other medical interventions to help them breathe. But the fact is, most babies breath on their own, totally spontaneously and on their own.

I know this hasn't got anything to do with the thread (apologies), but I didn't want to see this being perpetuated as some sort of fact or truth. Perhaps a different metaphor next time.

[seeds]

Originally Posted by OlderWiser

Uhm, that's not really done, or at least, it hasn't been for more than half a century. Physically slapping a newborn infant on any part of their body is not really helpful in any way and can do neurological damage. If they're not breathing (which is what the slap is supposed to stimulate), they have their mouth and airway suctioned and may get other medical interventions to help them breathe. But the fact is, most babies breath on their own, totally spontaneously and on their own.

I know this hasn't got anything to do with the thread (apologies), but I didn't want to see this being perpetuated as some sort of fact or truth. Perhaps a different metaphor next time.

OlderWiser,

You are right, thanks for pointing that out. I should have brushed up on my OBGYN facts.

I guess they suction and sometimes stimulate the bottoms of their feet nowadays.

seeds

[OlderWiser]

Glad you took it the way I intended. I hate to be all nitpicky and stuff, but childbirth is an area that is near and dear to my heart, and women hear enough scary stuff about it as it is!

Apologies again for derailing the thread (I'm going to leave and let it get back on track now!)