Everything/Nothing...Infinity/The Void...random thoughts.....

[icutoffheads]

Nothing is everything and everything is nothing.

Infinity is nothing.

Infinity HAS to be nothing.

Nothingness HAS to be everything.

Nothingness IS everything.

Everything is NOTHING.

This is not a depressing thought.

If there is truly nothing, truly nothing, then there is infinity. The pure unrealized potentiality of anything. That is infinity. Infinity is nothing and it has to be. Infinity cannot be a thing or else it would not be infinity. Infinity is every possibility, the quiet excitement, the invisible static, the non physical explosion of infinite possibility.

Everything and nothing are one. They are the same thing.

We experience them as opposites and think it's impossible they could be the same thing. But they are.

Anything is possible.

[Melchior]

Originally Posted by icutoffheads

Nothing is everything and everything is nothing.

Infinity is nothing.

Infinity HAS to be nothing.

Nothingness HAS to be everything.

Nothingness IS everything.

Everything is NOTHING.

This is not a depressing thought.

No, it's not, but it's not what I feel is 'true' either, but it may just be a bit of semantic misunderstanding getting in the way.

There is emptiness, void of both everything and nothing, what is finite. Along with that emptiness there is also fullness, which is infinite, both nothing and everything.
This is what's truly indeterminable, and also the unknown.

Everything and nothing are one. They are the same thing.

We experience them as opposites and think it's impossible they could be the same thing. But they are.

Nothing cannot be anything. But it's not empty either because we know what it is, nothing. It can be measured through the lack of measurement. But emptiness cannot be measured in this sense as the attempt at measuring emptiness breaks the emptiness.

Anything is possible.

Then nothing is impossible. But again, these depend on each other to be answered, emptiness depends only on itself. Recursion.

[OlderWiser]

Originally Posted by icutoffheads

This is not a depressing thought.

Sometimes it feels very lonely. But you adjust to it. At least, I have, for the most part. It's taken quite a while to do that, but the existential paradox of nothing and everything is more or less comfortable to me now.

[Curtis2011]

Originally Posted by icutoffheads

Nothing is everything and everything is nothing.

Infinity is nothing.

Infinity HAS to be nothing.

Nothingness HAS to be everything.

Nothingness IS everything.

Everything is NOTHING.

This is not a depressing thought.

If there is truly nothing, truly nothing, then there is infinity. The pure unrealized potentiality of anything. That is infinity. Infinity is nothing and it has to be. Infinity cannot be a thing or else it would not be infinity. Infinity is every possibility, the quiet excitement, the invisible static, the non physical explosion of infinite possibility.

Everything and nothing are one. They are the same thing.

We experience them as opposites and think it's impossible they could be the same thing. But they are.

Anything is possible.

You would probably find Dr. Hawkins' book Transcending the Levels of Consciousness very intriguing.

He has part of a chapter dedicated to explaining the dilemma of Allness vs. Nothingness.

You also might be happy to find that Allness, not Nothingness, is the final reality of the universe

[DerekMB]

It could also be that we merely perceive nothing when actually it is something only it's invisible to the typical perception.

I don't believe there is any such thing as what you would think of as "nothing". The universe is really just a sea of energy. The illusion is separation. Binding energies like light exist sparsely between spaces but exist they do. In this way all matter-energy in the universe is experienced as a gigantic wave of energy composed of many smaller and smaller waves of energy, some of which we perceive and some of which we don't.

[OlderWiser]

Originally Posted by DerekMB

It could also be that we merely perceive nothing when actually it is something only it's invisible to the typical perception.

That, too, of course. But I believe that the Nothing that icutoffheads is referring to actually is the Nothing that CAN be perceived. It is "Nothing", but it's also Everything, simultaneously. It's a very difficult thing to describe in ordinary language. In any language, actually.

Originally Posted by DerekMB

I don't believe there is any such thing as what you
would think of as "nothing".

There is a specific experience of the Nothing-that-is-Everything. I've had it. I presume that icutoffheads has also had it, given the content of the message.

[DerekMB]

Originally Posted by OlderWiser

That, too, of course. But I believe that the Nothing that icutoffheads is referring to actually is the Nothing that CAN be perceived. It is "Nothing", but it's also Everything, simultaneously. It's a very difficult thing to describe in ordinary language. In any language, actually.

There is a specific experience of the Nothing-that-is-Everything. I've had it. I presume that icutoffheads has also had it, given the content of the message.

Hi Olderwiser

I don't think I've had this experience, though I've heard people mention it before. The experiences I do have I usually don't share but I still have a hard time thinking that nothing exist. Many thing I can agree with the old texts but other things I have a hard time with, like this "nothing". In my experience there is no such thing as nothing and that opposites or complements of things are sometimes difficult to detect. For example, matter is said to correspond to being the opposite of energy (matter-energy), but energy may often times be invisible to normal sight or vision.

Mostly I feel there is no such thing as true matter or material and solid reality and that separation and absence of a thing is an illusion since energy exists everywhere including our own selves and consciousness being energy and the world and medium we reside in being composed of oscillating waves of energy that we typically don't pay attention to/perceive.

[OlderWiser]

Originally Posted by DerekMB

In my experience there is no such thing as nothing and that opposites or complements of things are sometimes difficult to detect.

Opposites and complements are illusions that the mind creates. They're matters of perception.

Originally Posted by DerekMB

I feel there is no such thing as true matter or material and solid reality

I would agree with that perception.

Originally Posted by DerekMB

separation and absence of a thing is an illusion

Yes...

Originally Posted by DerekMB

since energy exists everywhere including our own selves and consciousness being energy and the world and medium we reside in

Ah. Right. The Nothing-That-is-Everything experience is kind of outside the material world/universe. Sort of. Hard to explain as noted. "Outside" isn't really a good word, but I can't think of another. Beyond could work, or maybe "without and within" would be a phrase that works, but it's really something you have to experience for yourself, I think. I can try to describe it, but it would be like me trying to describe you to a colour you've never seen.

I hope I'm not being too confusing. I think we're talking about slightly different things is all.

[icutoffheads]

I think within and without accurately describes it. It is throughout everything (and nothing )

[OlderWiser]

Originally Posted by icutoffheads

I think within and without accurately describes it. It is throughout everything (and nothing )

I took the phrase from one of my favourite Beatles songs (written by my favourite Beatle). Of course, he got it from the holy scriptures of Hinduism...

[joelr]

I don't think infinity is nothing. It's definitely not every possibility. Conceptually you can have an infinite amount of something but still have an infinite amount of things not contained in that set.

The set of all odd numbers is conceptually infinite, an infinity in the mindscape as Rudy Rucker calls it.
But there are infinities of things not in that set and levels of infinities beyond that infinity as seen in transfinite number theory.

Cantor worked out that there are more than 1 type or levels of infinity. He had mathematical proofs as well.

There is an infinity beyond all others that is the ultimate infinity, which must contain everything called "Omega" or the Absolute Infinite.

As per the reflection principle any descriptions of this infinity are only pale reflections of the actual thing.

So that's all much more than nothing.

Even zero is the concept of "no quantity". But being a concept it's something.
"Nothing" in actuality can't even be a concept, take up space in the real or in the mindscape.
It seems like the Reflection Principle may also work for absolute nothing.

[icutoffheads]

I guess what I meant by "nothing" is that the second that "infinity" is something, then it's not infinity anymore, so it must be a complete void, the potentiality of anything.

which makes it everything.

[OlderWiser]

Originally Posted by joelr

There is an infinity beyond all others that is the ultimate infinity, which must contain everything called "Omega" or the Absolute Infinite.

As per the reflection principle any descriptions of this infinity are only pale reflections of the actual thing.

So that's all much more than nothing.

Right. It's Everything. It's the Nothing-That-is-Everything, simultaneously.

Originally Posted by joelr

"Nothing" in actuality can't even be a concept, take up space in the real or in the mindscape.

Yes, which is why words can't really describe it. In order to describe it, you have to conceptualise it, and the moment you conceptualise something, you automatically limit it, shape it with your own mind, and change it from what it actually is.

But, being human, we still like to try to understand this stuff, try to conceptualise these things. It's our nature. So long as we understand that all of our concepts, ideas, words, and everything else are, essentially, wrong (or, at least, not-really-right), I don't see the harm in it.

I'm afraid I didn't understand most of your mathematical references, but my husband is pretty brilliant at that sort of thing, so later I might ask him about these principles. I'm sure it'll be interesting!

[joelr]

Originally Posted by icutoffheads

I guess what I meant by "nothing" is that the second that "infinity" is something, then it's not infinity anymore, so it must be a complete void, the potentiality of anything.

which makes it everything.

Yeah language limits it. But in set theory it's ok to talk about an infinite set of things, as a concept it remains infinite, but numbers are only concepts anyway so their reality doesn't seem to change much by defining a set as infinite.

But the absolute infinite can never be pinned down as "something", any time you try to make it something by defining it the description is inaccurate.
Therefore the description doesn't alter it's reality, it's not really a description.

The only infinities we really speak of are concepts.

[joelr]

Originally Posted by OlderWiser

Right. It's Everything. It's the Nothing-That-is-Everything, simultaneously.


Yes, which is why words can't really describe it. In order to describe it, you have to conceptualise it, and the moment you conseptualise something, you automatically limit it, shape it with your own mind, and change it from what it actually is.

But, being human, we still like to try to understand this stuff, try to conceptualise these things. It's our nature. So long as we understand that all of our concepts, ideas, words, and everything else are, essentially, wrong (or, at least, not-really-right), I don't see the harm in it.

I'm afraid I didn't understand most of your mathematical references, but my husband is pretty brilliant at that sort of thing, so later I might ask him about these principles. I'm sure it'll be interesting!

Right, that's what the reflection principle is, what you are describing. You can't describe it.

But smaller infinities like - {3,3,3...} an infinite set of number 3 I think are understood conceptually. Not the actual "largeness" of infinity but the fact that it is a set of 3's that never ends.
There was a time when people didn't think about that. It didn't exist in math.

There are different infinities also - physical (large and small), numbers or sets and others.

The math stuff is probably on Wiki under transfinite number.

Transfinite number - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

it is! there is a link to Absolute infinite also.


Very interesting subject to me too. The best book on infinity is "Infinity and the Mind" by Rudy Rucker

[DerekMB]

Originally Posted by joelr

Even zero is the concept of "no quantity". But being a concept it's something.
"Nothing" in actuality can't even be a concept, take up space in the real or in the mindscape.
It seems like the Reflection Principle may also work for absolute nothing.

That was the comment I was going to make Zero does represent nothing in mathematical terms and math is basically used to explain reality on paper. But, as we now know, an absence or a zero in a thing also represent an attraction. In physics for example, electrons are said to "fall into" or be drawn into such holes or absences as they attempt to spread and equalize out in terms of energy. A hole is possibly a thing which energy flows through, a thing of perfect balance and harmony which is, by it's own nature of being perfectly balanced, invisible and transparent: Like the singularity of a black hole or the midpoint/ center-point of a wave.

[royster]

Derek...what is this graphic? I'll tell you my impression:
Earth enduring a solar flare. It sure is interesting, and the properties of the wave/orb are fascinating! WHAT IZZIT!?
[/QUOTE]

[DerekMB]

Hey Royster

It's supposed to be a black hole but in actuality, according to physics, it's best thought of as a kind of super gigantic magnet.

This magnet has rotating fields of energy that constantly are swirling about and re collapsing back in on itself, primarily at the poles. Since there are two poles, two spheres can be seen to exist around these poles in perfect symmetry as the black hole itself is a circle.

As incoming matter-energy approaches the black hole it is either deflected and/or "scooper up" by the electromagnetic energies swirling about the black holes. In some case these energies may annihilate the matter instantly, scooping up the pure reduced energy that made up the matter in the process, thereby drawing more and more energy into the black hole.

The energies of the black hole are essentially super powerful waves of electromagnetism that constantly collapse, rotate, and attract other energies. All matter actually does this, but not black holes are among the most dense and powerful so the effects are greatly noticed. Essentially, all of space and time is actually being distorted, hence you can't actually "see" the black hole or singularity itself.

[royster]

Wow! SO...it's my first wife!

Just kidding...thanks for the comprehencive explanation. The visuals really reveal a lot. I am confident that Earth enduring a solar flare must certainly look similar.

I noticed also a "dark particle" behind the incoming wave...and it becomes an interesting shape/ sphere. Awesome stuff!