Need help leaving christanity

[honbloke]

I just had a big argument with my brother and my mother.

The issues is this. I just want to move another church where my mother can't watch over me. My bro don't agree to the church I going to because the church is one of those mega church with over 10,000+ members that like to teach the prosperity gospel. By the way, I'm Methodist.

The truth is I don't believe in Christianity anymore and are ready to remove this baggage of my life but I cannot. Not with religious fanatics like my mum and bro. I really don't know how they will react if I say I don't believe in Christianity anymore. I just want to go into this mega church and kind of "dissapear" into the crowd. I thought of staying there till I have the financial means to move out but I don't think that will happen in the next few years.

Please note I don't have the financial means to move out of my house. It so frustrating. I already reaching 21 years old and my mum still tells me what church I should go or should not go. My bro all the hand love to quote bible versus all the time. It irritating when you want to discuss life issues with him.

[Captain Drywall]

I would work on my independence first. There is an expression "you can take the boy out of the church, but you cant take the church out of the boy"
With this in mind, there is much good about Christianity to take with you. Compassion, Love , helpfulness, etc. I am not saying all 10,000 members practice these things, but you can for the rest of your life. Christianity will be in you for the rest of your life. Even if you truly do not believe Christ is the lord and savorer. In the mean time there is nothing stopping you from learning other philosophy's.

[rawxstasy]

I have lived in Singapore and I think I know the church you are talking about. I don't believe in organized religion. I feel that all beliefs point to God. I'll tell you my story.

My mother raised me Catholic. She was all about being Catholic. I started going to other churches with my best friend, when I was 16. We went to one baptist church and me and my friend were in the only two white people there! It was an awesome experience. My mom was just horrified that I could "betray" the church like that. I just ignored her and kept doing my own thing. Eventually I stopped going to church altogether. When I had to move back in with my mom she tried to get me going to church again. I just told her, "I'm not interested" and kept doing my own thing again and she didn't really bother me about it maybe because I was 32 years old then. Now she is actually leaving the Catholic church!! Which is amazing to me. Looking back, see seemed so brainwashed by their teachings. She is becoming the person she was meant to be.

So I would just ignore them and do your own thing. If she complains, remind her that you are an adult. I wouldn't try to change their beliefs. You just need to set some boundaries. You don't have to do what your mother just because you live at home. And if she tries to pull the "dutiful son" crap on you and asian culture of parental obedience - just ignore it.

[honbloke]

I have calmed down now. Sorry that I started this thread out of pure frustration. I know that this is a forum for smart people, not a place for you to vent your frustration. I embarrassed even as I type this post now.

Like many Christians, I was born and raised in a Methodist family. Majority of my friends are christian so I do not have any friends I can talk to regarding my beliefs.

Originally Posted by rawxstasy

And if she tries to pull the "dutiful son" crap on you and asian culture of parental obedience - just ignore it.

I do admit that being raised in an asian culture is one of the ways my parents really messed me up. However, I do intend to keep the value of filial piety with me.

[rei]

honbloke, smart people vent too! i don't feel there is any shame in expressing how you feel if you aren't hurting anyone.

so have you reconciled the issue, or is it just not bothering you as much now? either way, i hope for the best for you! i know how it can be to not feel like there are people in our physical environment we can talk to about spiritual beliefs (i live in a deeply Christian/fundamentalist area, and my beliefs are unusual for the population around me)... that is definitely one perk of the internet for me

[LovingPeace]

I think that the best option is to be straight-forward with your feelings. You can of course hide, pretend that your faith is strong..but is that a solution? I think it can only deepen the problem. I was raised in a Catholic family and at one point I just said that for me personally there is no sense going to the church and practising religion, I made it clear to my parents that my perception of the world is different and asked them to respect and accept it.

[beautyscientist]

I don't have any particular answers but I do sympathise. My brother in law and his wife are deeply religious and it poses huge problems when they visit. I have no desire to argue with them but it is such a big part of their life that you can't avoid the subject. They don't try: they cheerfully bring up their recent evangelical triumphs and projects. They are extremely ready to take offence if I am disrespectful of their beliefs. As I have no comparable beliefs I can't claim equal treatment.

All the best. I hope you work it out.

[Chris_1977]

No point in going to another church if you don't believe anymore anyway. Is there any danger that you will be thrown out of the house if you tell them that you no longer believe? If there is such danger you may be better of pretending for now. If not, then just don't go to any church anymore. If asked tell them you don't believe anymore. But there is not really a need to tell them anything if they don't ask. There is also no need to tell them they are wrong. Everybody makes their own choices.

When I was young (13 or 14 years old) I was forced to go to church but I just started to say something negative about the church every opportunity. That took care of being forced to go rather quickly.

[Michael Chui]

When I was a kid, I got out going to church a lot by sleeping in and refusing to wake up.

I also got out of swimming lessons by napping in the backseat of the car.

I know you don't have the financial means to move out now. Get them. Just leave. Look into other ways of leaving. I'm sorry I don't know enough about Singapore to give specific advice on getting out of the house, but you should focus on that.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by honbloke

I really don't know how they will react if I say I don't believe in Christianity anymore.

Well, you won't until you harness the courage to tell them. Believe me, it's fun to find out. It feels like sweet revenge to witness the horror in their eyes when they are so sure the devil has possessed their child. You gotta give it a try. You won't ever look back after that.

[modernthing]

Hello there

I have been in a family environment where my dad has tried to do the very same. My father would pressure everyone at home to go to mass on Sundays, saying how important it was to give some time to God, and for the good of our soul.

I am not agreeing with him, but I cannot blame him, because I know he is doing what he thinks is right, he is still hanging on so desperately to old beliefs because he's not been taught anything else. He grew up at a time when fear was used to pressure people to go to church and he is still very much convinced that you can go to hell for not adoring God through the Sunday mass. He has had a lot of difficulties letting these old beliefs go. I know all he wants deep down is for his family to receive salvation and to be OK... I don't blame him.

We have been able to express our opinions in more interesting manners recently though, because we have been wanting him to understand our points of view too, as he had been pushing his for so long.
We told him that going to church/mass wasn't the only way/necessary to worship God. We have taken extreme examples of the phoneys sitting front row and then hurrying to hurt people out of mass, did it do any good to them if they paid attention to the given message ?
We also told him that catholic/organised religions were mainly man made/manipulated and that no one for certain knew whether or not this truly was God's will and illustrated with some examples of non-sense found throughout religions.

We stressed the importance that religion/practicing/faith needs to not be based on fear but to come from free will : if you sit there during mass/celebrations and make nothing out of it, did it actually serve any form of good ?? did you actually get anything out of it ? If you go because you are forced, then it is the same as not going. The "wanting to go to mass/church" needs to come from the heart, and I think it is important to respect this very thing.

I've been brought up a catholic and have lived in fear for sometime, until I came to realise it couldn't be that God, who was almighty and loving could give us free will, only to punish us on the other side... this just didn't made sense.

And from that, I started "deprogramming" most of what I have received in my bringing up, as a child. I base my choices now on my inner beliefs rather than on what religion teaches : does something sound good to my soul ? Would I do that/accept that for myself ? Would I like being treated in some fashion ? this is sufficient and in that way, I do not close my vision on subjective things like "good" or "bad", because this evolves with society, what was good about 50 years ago may no longer feel nice today... Of course, I make sure to make my thinking evolve as well, as nothing is ever set in stone, I try to be able to question what I believe to not stay always on the same level.

I still feel awe for some religious figures, it's just that I've rejected some silly dogmas and the non-sense talking of the church, God never asked us to worship Him out of fears, that is the worst thing to do, this totally contradicts free will !!!!!

[Crushable]

you know your family better than i do, but I would do what your doing and lay low untill you can break free.

balance the consequences: telling them your done with that particular set of belifes

vs

going to chruch

[Andrew Gubb]

It's OK that you want to vent for being frustrated That is a very valid use of these forums. And we are here to remind you that you have a lot of support behind you even if you feel alone wherever you are

Andrew

[Plays With Life]

I would probably find a hostel or a farm to work at, and walk away. You don't need any money to find a place to live.

[blossom]

This is true. There are places all over australia that will let a person work in exchange for food and shelter...farms etc. I'm sure there are similar places in the U.S (or wherever you are from?) If you try talking to them first about all this and they start pulling the old "You're the spawn of Satan" crap on you...then I would definately leave.

Just make sure it's far enough away that your face won't end up on a milk carton as a missing person

[honbloke]

Hi, thanks for all the replies.

Moving out is not an option. Singapore is really a very small southeast asian nation. The longest distance you can measure in this country is only 44km. Because of this land constraint, 80% of our people live in high rising flats and apartments with most of them owned by the government. Flats are really hideously expensive now in Singapore, given our recent property boom. Even a small 2 room flat can cost up to $100k. This is why so many Singaporeans has to work and get married in their late twenties and early thirties. Meanwhile, most will live with their parents till then.

I don't think that my mum will kick me out of my house but I not sure I can live with members condemning you everyday. Already when I didn't attend church one time, my mum say something about me falling to the dark side and becoming evil. It weird that my mum can't accept me because she was born in a Buddhist/Taoism family. Her family oppose her too when she wanted to become a christian.

[blossom]

You could try reminding her of this fact and see if she calms down a bit. It sounds like she is just spouting her parents stuff onto you...she probably isn't even aware that she is doing it...we all turn into our parents eventually.

If you can make her more aware of this and remind her how she felt when her parents did it to her...you might have a chance?

Originally Posted by honbloke

Hi, thanks for all the replies.

Moving out is not an option. Singapore is really a very small southeast asian nation. The longest distance you can measure in this country is only 44km. Because of this land constraint, 80% of our people live in high rising flats and apartments with most of them owned by the government. Flats are really hideously expensive now in Singapore, given our recent property boom. Even a small 2 room flat can cost up to $100k. This is why so many Singaporeans has to work and get married in their late twenties and early thirties. Meanwhile, most will live with their parents till then.

I don't think that my mum will kick me out of my house but I not sure I can live with members condemning you everyday. Already when I didn't attend church one time, my mum say something about me falling to the dark side and becoming evil. It weird that my mum can't accept me because she was born in a Buddhist/Taoism family. Her family oppose her too when she wanted to become a christian.

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by honbloke

Hi, thanks for all the replies.

Moving out is not an option. Singapore is really a very small southeast asian nation. The longest distance you can measure in this country is only 44km. Because of this land constraint, 80% of our people live in high rising flats and apartments with most of them owned by the government. Flats are really hideously expensive now in Singapore, given our recent property boom. Even a small 2 room flat can cost up to $100k. This is why so many Singaporeans has to work and get married in their late twenties and early thirties. Meanwhile, most will live with their parents till then.

I don't think that my mum will kick me out of my house but I not sure I can live with members condemning you everyday. Already when I didn't attend church one time, my mum say something about me falling to the dark side and becoming evil. It weird that my mum can't accept me because she was born in a Buddhist/Taoism family. Her family oppose her too when she wanted to become a christian.

I agree that renting a place might not work. But you can find a place to live without paying anything for it.

Isn't Singapore a port country? You could also find a boat to crew up on, and find yourself in the middle of an adventure to boot

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by honbloke

It weird that my mum can't accept me because she was born in a Buddhist/Taoism family. Her family oppose her too when she wanted to become a christian.

Where are they, and would they consider helping you out?

[blossom]

Originally Posted by Plays With Life

I agree that renting a place might not work. But you can find a place to live without paying anything for it.

Isn't Singapore a port country? You could also find a boat to crew up on, and find yourself in the middle of an adventure to boot

This sounds fun.

[dreamlearner]

Don't oppose strongly.Just do a slow rebellion.Just don't show too much interest in religious activities

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Plays With Life

Isn't Singapore a port country? You could also find a boat to crew up on, and find yourself in the middle of an adventure to boot

Surprise, surprise.

You will hardly ever find a true-blue Singaporean who is a sailor. Blue-collar jobs in Singapore are mostly done by foreigners.

The sailors come from the Philippines and Indonesia;
the garbage-collectors come from Bangladesh;
the construction workers come from China;
the factory workers come from Malaysia;
the maids come from Indonesia and Philippines.

And there are almost no farmers. Almost all the vegetables are imported. Pig farming is banned, because the waste pollutes the rivers, and this is Singapore, we can't have that, you know, we're squeaky clean.

The closest things to sailing that Singaporeans actually do are, you know, yachting, boardsailing, jet skiiing and taking holidays on cruise ships. That sort of thing.

[Chris_1977]

You may initially get a strong reaction, but I would guess that after the initial shock things would go back to more or less normal pretty soon.

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Surprise, surprise.

You will hardly ever find a true-blue Singaporean who is a sailor. Blue-collar jobs in Singapore are mostly done by foreigners.

The sailors come from the Philippines and Indonesia;
the garbage-collectors come from Bangladesh;
the construction workers come from China;
the factory workers come from Malaysia;
the maids come from Indonesia and Philippines.

I did figure the boats would be international vessels. It would be a great way to walk away and end up somewhere new. And with all the necessities taken care of - crew gets quarters, and normally food in addition to pay.

[themaster]

Originally Posted by honbloke

I just had a big argument with my brother and my mother.

The issues is this. I just want to move another church where my mother can't watch over me. My bro don't agree to the church I going to because the church is one of those mega church with over 10,000+ members that like to teach the prosperity gospel. By the way, I'm Methodist.

The truth is I don't believe in Christianity anymore and are ready to remove this baggage of my life but I cannot. Not with religious fanatics like my mum and bro. I really don't know how they will react if I say I don't believe in Christianity anymore. I just want to go into this mega church and kind of "dissapear" into the crowd. I thought of staying there till I have the financial means to move out but I don't think that will happen in the next few years.

Please note I don't have the financial means to move out of my house. It so frustrating. I already reaching 21 years old and my mum still tells me what church I should go or should not go. My bro all the hand love to quote bible versus all the time. It irritating when you want to discuss life issues with him.

Sometimes you should just tell people what they want to "hear" meaning go "white" lie.. it's easy and non-headache.. it's not the truth.. it's just giving people the lie to please themselves and leave you alone

I mean is this a act of rebellion.. or do you feel like you're not yourself because of these people?

[modernthing]

Originally Posted by themaster

... "white" lie.. ...

I'm not so sure a "white lie" is always the best solution, it's just other means to feel bad inside because you feel you are not truthfull to your ideas and to what you want. Though perhaps you'd be able to live with that. I wouldn't.

I guess we want to tell our truth and we expect people to respect it, and we want things to be told in the best conditions. It's not always that easy but I guess it is worth giving it a try. It might "burst" some form of bubble, directly. But this is probably expected, when what applies to you isn't always the general idea of the people you share it with, especially if they're conviced that they "know the real truth".
I've been through that on exactly the same topic.

But chances are that in the long run, things will sort out. Once the "slap in the face" will be diggested, and if it eventually gets understood. People change, and so do their ideas and conceptions.

I doubt that pushing back the moment the truth will come out is really necessary, all it risks is that it'll bring more hurt and deception the day it will come out because some people will have the impression of having been lied to.

My brother has kept on going to church at home, out of complesency, so that my father would leave him alone, and the day he stopped going, as he never really told what his views on the matter were, and for delaying telling my father "his truth", well, he earned the right to lectures every single Sunday, my father went on telling him how he was going to rot in hell etc etc... Plus the daily lecture on what a bad christian he was and blah...

I think the sooner you assume yourself, the better

Do you think it's better letting the truth out, even if it hurts a bit at first (the others) ; or would you rather hurt yourself feeling you're not being true to your feelings ??

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by modernthing

My brother has kept on going to church at home, out of complesency, so that my father would leave him alone, and the day he stopped going, as he never really told what his views on the matter were, and for delaying telling my father "his truth", well, he earned the right to lectures every single Sunday, my father went on telling him how he was going to rot in hell etc etc... Plus the daily lecture on what a bad christian he was and blah...

The best lecture my parents have been able to muster at me is that I should really keep the faith and it's a Really Good Thing You Know. But it probably helps that my parents get slightly intimidated when I switch on my brain in their presence and start actually talking. *shrugs*

Yelling, on the other hand, they have no problem matching me at. Yelling doesn't work.

[modernthing]

Indeed it doesn't my father tried to be intimidating for most of my life, until I too turned my brain on and had arguments to calmly explain where I was getting to ; unfortunatelly, in my case it ended up making things worse because he really has trouble leaving his comfort zone and giving up things he was brought up with... which means at one point, he ends up losing his temper and starts to speak loudly and gets all nervous about it, possibly because he knows my arguments are also quite true... but he still doesn't want to give up on his beliefs and has a hard time trying to see things from another perspective...

I'd say "white lies" are a "quit or double" as we say in French, meaning, the person gets away with it or it makes it even worse... One has to choose and think carefully still before going down that path.

Arguments on keeping the faith are good, but it's "bad" if you try to push it on someone else. Which I believe is the case in the OP

[Chris_1977]

White lies about a subject that is important to you are conscious lowering and should be avoided whenever possible. And if it is not possible to avoid them right now a plan should be made to start living more in alignment with truth.

[themaster]

Originally Posted by Chris_1977

White lies about a subject that is important to you are conscious lowering and should be avoided whenever possible. And if it is not possible to avoid them right now a plan should be made to start living more in alignment with truth.

I'm sorry, I don't agree.. if pushy people demand something of you.. they demand you to act a certain way to be in their presence.. and acting a different way may disengage you from them permanently or for quite a while.. there's nothing wrong with telling them "what they want to hear" if you wish to keep the relationship..

Ultimately if they examine you and your circumstances they'll discover the lie.. for the record here.. I'm quoting abraham.. this is abrahams advice about one such pushy situation..

Telling white lies is not a conscious lowering if you don't make it one.. however I would quite agree the best solution long term is if you wish to be around these people to find a way to be yourself around them if possible..