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02-16-2007, 05:26 PM
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 What happens after enlightenment? What if we really like the idea of enlightenment, but we're also having a lot of fun on earth? If, after enlightenment in this lifetime, do we HAVE to go be in the ether forever? Can we still come back to physical form just for fun?      |
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02-16-2007, 06:43 PM
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 hm maybe.. though by some models, souls are each on different paths of evolution, and once you reach enlightenment, you don't come back into physical incarnations anymore. Is this the most accurate model of incarnation? |
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02-16-2007, 11:57 PM
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| I think your consciousness gets to choose, although it wouldn't be a personal ego "I" making the decision but rather the universe being the way it is and thus you being the way you are. I remember Dr. Hawkins saying that after 600 you can sign up to be people's angels after death, become a bodhisattva and come back for a physical incarnation (in fact that was what he did; in previous lifetimes he used to be stuck in the Void of 850, but found himself coming back into physicality), or go on to other realms of consciousness. He calibrated archangels at 50,000 (remember that these levels are logarithmic!), which means there's quite a ways to evolve still  A useful analogy for this is the light spectrum. Human consciousness, in the infinity of God, is like the visible frequencies of light. There's still infrared, ultraviolet, microwave, x-ray, etc. to keep evolving towards. In I: Reality and Subjectivity, Dr. Hawkins suggests that transcending the ego is probably like kindergarten for more advanced levels of consciousness. Each consciousness is a spiritual master to levels below it and a student of levels above it. I'm actually interested in learning more about this myself, wondering how the experience is like for enlightened consciousness, whether you completely bliss out and need someone to take care of you or if you can resume earthly functioning by yourself. |
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02-17-2007, 02:16 AM
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50,000! Now that would be eternal bliss. Has Hawkins ever calibrated god? Wouldn't that be like the absolute maximum? Erock
__________________ "I just kind of expected to win" - Pete Sampras |
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02-17-2007, 07:34 AM
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02-17-2007, 03:24 PM
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Thanks for the title, I look forward to reading more of Hawkins to see if that helps explain some more  |
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02-17-2007, 11:23 PM
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| Wow, just had another insight into what enlightenment might mean. Many people say that enlightenment is the permanent realization of Oneness of everything, i.e. cosmic consciousness. What is the ego, then? The ego is basically our consciousness that, out of curiosity, chose to focalize our consciousness at one point. They say that everyone is already enlightened, but they do not realize it. Our consciousness is the consciousness of all, but we chose to focus it in this particular soul-mind-body. Over time, our egos appeared to be separate from everything and we forgot our awareness of Allness, and thus acted separately from the rest of consciousness. By acting separate (i.e. using personal ego will, rather than Divine/cosmic will), it does not flow with universal/cosmic harmony, and this accumulated karma, positive and negative. For us, this karmic gunk blocks the awareness of Allness and keeps us attached to who we believe we are, i.e. our desires and fears, positionalities, etc. You can kind of say that karma is the backlash or Newton's 3rd law of all actions, by being attached to certain thoughts/desires due to lack of awareness, but for the consciousness that is enlightened, that consciousness is identified with Allness and thus acts in accordance with it and is free from all karma. I read about this one person's enlightenment experience, where whatever he chose to focus on, he would "be" that and be consciously aware of existing as whatever he was focusing on. Our problem then, is that instead of having the freedom of being Allness, we are bound to always being our supposed soul-mind-body with all its unconscious/conscious programs and identifications. Enlightenment is thus the liberation of our consciousness from being perpetually stuck with our self, and re-experience our Self. The path to enlightenment is basically the process of undoing negative karma and becoming more aligned with Divine will, thus lessening the focalization of our consciousness on our particular ego self. This ties together so many things; why the masters say that you can create your reality. What they mean is, your consciousness is free to become anything, you have absolute freedom. Consciousness is basically subjective awareness of objects. So right now, everything living and experiencing by itself, but we (unconsciously) choose to be aware of experiencing ONLY our particular ego-self, and ONLY this physical earthly realm where everything is relatively fixed. Once you become enlightened, your consciousness is free to evolve however you want, either to stay in the physical realm and help others, or move on to other realms. In the nonphysical realms, where energy is relatively subtle, your thoughts automatically create the reality you experience. This also explains the whole thing about free will; we have free will of our awareness/consciousness to be aware of our particular self, but the actual person who is experiencing/thinking/doing is actually doing everything on its own. The really mind-boggling thing is that us spiritual seekers, thinking that "we" are seeking enlightenment, are actually autonomous and automatically doing so without "our" intervention, we are just the witness/observer of it. We are actually already enlightened and free, but we do not believe so, we believe ourselves to be the ego-self. So right now, we are watching ourselves freeing ourselves. Man, my head is hurting  edit: shoot, more realizations coming. God is basically the ultimate awareness underlying everything, and thus it is aware of everything. It is continuously aware of everything, and this creates focalization where life and consciousness evolves. These focalized points are basically each one of us, we are the focalized reflections of God being aware of everything. Thus, the masters say that we are God, and indeed we are, our individual subjective awareness of consciousness is actually just God always being aware of everything. Raising consciousness then, is knowing God better; our consciousness is evolving to be able to include more and more into our awareness. Below 200, we are only aware of ourselves, but over 200 we start to gain empathy, be aware of our friends and family; higher up, we begin to be aware of animals, nature, the planet, and mankind in general. Enlightenment then, is the conscious realization of the awareness of Allness, awareness of God, of being God. Last edited by ethereal : 02-18-2007 at 12:07 AM. Reason: clarification/additions |
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02-18-2007, 10:27 PM
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| Re: What happens after enlightenment? Mike-2, I think you have a point there. (I'd ask you what you did with Mike-1, but that would be off-topic.) When I first started reading this thread, it struck me that the concept of "after" is one of those temporal things, and in the eternal state is no longer relevant. It would naturally only be relevant to those "unenlightened ones" observing. The Near Death literature speaks about experiencers not being able to describe their experiences because there are no words or concepts that can convey them. I suspect we're in one of those areas here. I'm not sure much can be gained by thinking about it. Probably better to just do it.
__________________ Daniel GratefulNotes: Moments in the Deeper Power of Gratitude www.gratefulnotes.com The Meaning of Existence (and all that) www.danielbrenton.com |
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02-18-2007, 10:33 PM
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That shows what we'll be doing within the lifetime, but what about after this life? Does enlightenment in this lifetime change our future incarnations, or mean our souls must stay in the ether? |
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02-18-2007, 10:39 PM
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02-19-2007, 04:15 AM
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When is enlightenment? It is now, of course. Whatever amount of expansion into your infinite awareness you can allow right now is your enlightenment. There is no before enlightenment or after enlightenment. There is only the enlightenment of this moment. Own that, live that, let that expand, and -- hey, why did you stop chopping?
__________________ Manifest Revolution: Live truth. |
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02-19-2007, 11:10 AM
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 Newsflash: U don't have to Die to Evolve... When u have completed ur journies and become a truly enlightened soul... u merge into oneness with All That Is... Dont think anyone know what ATI is... LOL But hey, enjoy the journey ... u'll get there soon enuf... love n light janlee |
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02-20-2007, 07:57 PM
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| I am God. I am not bound by your so-called laws of karma to return over and over again. There is no "must" in the equation. I am All That Is, and that includes all of you. You are currently immersed deep within the SpaceTime Illusion of Separation that was created by Me, and therefore have been tricked into believing that you have a separate identity and personality from Me. That is as it should be because the Magic Show can neither teach nor entertain unless both Magician and Audience agree to ignore the Truth. "Enlightenment" is just a more colorful term for "Awakening." When You/I decide that you are ready, We will awaken to a greater realization of Our true nature. You will not "lose" yourself and "join with the ether" as you put it. The "you" that you currently believe is your personality will simply become aware of YOUR greater reality that you currently choose to "forget." It will be no different than when you awaken from your dreams during REM sleep. Did the "dream You" disappear into the ether? Of course not. You are still You, only "enlightened" to your greater Self and no longer that limited dream version of yourself. Final "enlightenment" will occur when all of You experience that final awakening/realization that there ARE NO OTHERS, and it's just Me/You, the Single Existing Universal Cosmic Consciousness, experiencing my natural state of Oneness again. You will know when you have achieved this state for there will be no longer any perception of Otherness. Just Me and my awareness of Self, but nothing else. So, the REAL question we should be asking ourselves is not what it will be like to experience the Oneness. You can simulate this state now if you choose to through various methods such as isolation tanks or other practices that are designed to filter out all awareness of senses excepting the Mind. The REAL question we should ask is WHY I/You created Duality and Illusions of Separation in the first place. I submit that the answer is not so mysterious as you might prefer to think. Just lay for a couple of hours in one of those tanks I mentioned and perhaps you'll understand. So, are we dreaming? Are we tangled in a karmic web of our own making? Or are we simply playing an eternal game of Solitaire? I am God. Do not try to limit me for you only limit yourself. I am You because I chose to be so. Does it not make sense that I would prefer to be All That Is as opposed to The Big Only? Is your experience not More when you are surrounded by others than it is when you are alone? The Universe you occupy is My Great Work. Enjoy it. I made it for You, even though the Truth is that I made it just for Me. It is my personal and exclusive playground where I can imagine and experience an infinite number of adventures. I did not create You. I merely created the things that support your illusion that You are not Me, and that I am not You. The playground cannot work any other way. When you focus too much attention on what's happening outside the playground, you lessen your experience within the game. Your purpose is NOT to become fully awake; at least not yet anyway. You are in the playground because that is where I put you, that I might know myself from the completely unique perspective that You give me. Your purpose is to EXPERIENCE all that You can from that unique perspective until I decide that your perspective is "played out." When that occurs, you will experience the final awakening into realization that You and I are One. And when All Of Us are "played out".... then perhaps We will return to Oneness again. But I reserve, as always, My Free Will to create a whole new playground and do it ALL OVER AGAIN! Now, why would I do that? It ain't Rocket Surgery. |
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02-20-2007, 09:08 PM
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__________________ People often say that 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder,' and I say that the most liberating thing about beauty is realizing that you are the beholder. This empowers us to find beauty in places where others have not dared to look, including inside ourselves. --Salma Hayek My blog: Adam's Peace |
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02-20-2007, 09:34 PM
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02-22-2007, 03:47 AM
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| RS stop speaking my thoughts so coherently... |
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03-16-2007, 03:19 AM
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| Hi Athena. Neal Donald Walsh has a theory about what happens 'after enlightenment.' I recommend you read Home with God (in a life that never ends)-2006. (This is the most recent addition to his Conversations with God Series) |
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03-20-2007, 03:16 PM
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| Enlightenment is one of those vague terms imported from eastern philosophy -a sort of carrot on a stick approach to belief, somewhat similar to the protestant belief in the rapture, or the belief of many religious people in the coming of a messiah - living in hope that suddenly, one day, everything is going to be OK. I am not being critical of these people but just pointing out that they are at a particular stage in their spiritual development which, in time, will change. God, Jesus, Satan will not be waiting to meet you when you pass from this life. This may come as a bit of a shock to some - it did to me at first, but you will get over it. As we are all divine sparks of God's consciousness, we have, and always will have, our own individuality which can never be extinguished. I'm sorry, but there is no merging with 'the All' (again, apologies if this has ruffled any feathers).You will always be personally responsible for who you are and what you do, wherever you are. When you pass from this life, you will lose your physical body, but continue to exist in a more refined, spirtualized body. You will be attracted to a realm which reflects the ideas and beliefs you held during your earthly life. There, you will work out with the aid of spiritual helpers, what you want to do next : reincarnate on earth, remain where you are for a time and learn, or perhaps visit a lower realm to try and help other souls move 'upwards'. When you are spiritually ready, you will be able to lose again the body you are in, adopt a more refined, spiritual body and move into a higher realm. This is the process of spiritual evolution. There is no finite end to it. The highest beings in the universe are going through the same process - creating, exploring their own consciousness, helping those below and moving up into higher realms. They, themselves, are still exploring who God really is. It is a great adventure, a journey of discovery and never-ending growth and expansion. You can go as high as you like, or drop as low as you like, but you will always be you. As in heaven, so below. |
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03-21-2007, 12:09 AM
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