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11-06-2006, 05:52 PM
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 The origin of the universe I hope this is the correct forum to post this in, as it says "religion" in the description, but if it's not, please move it. I was just wondering what everyone around here believes concerning the origins of the universe. Being a creationist myself, I obviously believe that the universe is just too complex and beautiful to have just been spontaneously made or evolved over billions of years, and was created by a higher being. I'm interested in this kind of thing, and I like to know other people's views and opinions on the matter.      |
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11-06-2006, 06:08 PM
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| I truly apologize for not bringing much to this topic more than a mere link, I am a bit busy and that link will tell you more of my own beliefs than I can possibly do in the same amount of time: Why does a Universe exist? A journey beyond nothing. I will most probably tip in on your thread later with a lot more insights. I'm glad you made this thread, this topic needs to be discussed, and I honestly want to learn more on the subject. |
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11-06-2006, 06:09 PM
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| I myself don't really believe in a higher being, well not in the form of a separate entity. I believe in the higher being in the way of being itself. We all are, and there is only being, to be. One cannot not be because the not being itself is a form of being..) Anyway, I don't think some entity created all this, because I don't believe in a separate God-like entity but I believe we all are gods. We all "are", we all consist of that energy, thesame energy everything consists of. If you believe in something like a God who has created this all, then when/how is that God created? I think you're getting to the problem of infinity here. We humans just cannot grasp infinity, yet we go into infinity with what we'd like to know. How and why the universe/multiverse got so infinetly complex and beautiful I don't know, but then I as a human could probably not possibly ever understand that either. I think this is one of the points where religion offers relief, because it can give us answers to our infinite infinity questions so that we don't go crazy wondering..  Science answers how, religion answers why. (yet since I don't really believe in that God part, I guess my why questions remain unanswered. But that is perfectly fine too.)
__________________ === no sig for now, but [your ad could be here!]  |
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11-06-2006, 06:15 PM
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I always get stuck with the concept of time, that seems to be the crux for me. If there was a beginning of time at X, what was there at 1 second before X. (This is also the mathematical proof of the non-existence of a minimal or maximal integer. I just naively applied it to time.) Currently, "nothing" does not exist anywhere in our universe, so it's hard to imagine nothing existing before time. Perhaps the universe is eternal. This is the easiest conclusion, but not a very satisfying one. Last edited by Matt : 11-06-2006 at 06:20 PM. |
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11-06-2006, 06:19 PM
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 There's nothing obvious about your belief; it doesn't follow from being a creationist, though it's certainly common.A question for you: what is complexity, and what is beauty? Feel free to start another thread on the topic. Quote:
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__________________ "I read, I interpret, I think, I criticize, I oppose, I listen, I write, I question, I reply, I quote, I tell, I name, I discuss, I interpolate..., I learn, I teach, I live, therefore I am." -- Marc-Alain Ouaknin, "Mysteries of the Kabbalah", p383. Favorite Essays I Wrote: love, identity & growth, economics, education, equality, definitions. Recent Books I liked: Anansi Boys, Fly By Night, Hyperion. |
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11-06-2006, 06:25 PM
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The thing about God is, he "is, was, and always will be." He wasn't "created", but has simply "existed", similarly as "energy" has always existed. Therefore, in my opinion, it's just as easy for me to believe in God as it would be for you to believe in an eternal energy that flows among us, the tree, animals, etc. It's impossible for humans to know how God truly works, because we are mortal and unable to grasp the concept of infinity, of a being. I'm just curious, though, in your beliefs, if we are all gods, why has humanity been on an endless cycle of being born, living, and then dying, for thousands (or millions or billions) of years? Why hasn't anyone been able to grasp immortality yet? Once more, how did life become so complex if no intelligence was behind it? Why is the human body so complicated, yet it runs in perfection and harmony? Why are so many creatures and plants so gorgeous if it happened by chance? |
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11-06-2006, 06:39 PM
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11-06-2006, 06:49 PM
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| Those are though questions, and probably questions I, nor probably any other human, can really answer. But let's put it in another perspective. Let's say God does, did, and will exist, and he/she/it created all this astoundingly beautiful things. Then how did this God came to be? Sure, the answer is that he always has been, but then still, how can there be a God that is so complex, so refined and beautiful minded it is beyond our reach to understand? I read about deep meditation and reaching to experience being itself. Being is being one with that energy. Right now it seems that for a certain part everybody is not fully attached to that energy, but more likely it's just our ego's that separate us. If I were fully consciously one with being, without the egoic mind, I probably wouldn't exist as a human at all. About the intelect, if we humans have intelect, and we all are part of that ever present energy, wouldn't that energy have all the knowledge and intelect to ever exist?
__________________ === no sig for now, but [your ad could be here!] |
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11-06-2006, 07:21 PM
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| What I think is more important than our beliefs about the origins of the universe are how they affect the way we treat our world and its inhabitants. One flaw of belief structures that focus on beginning and end of a finite universe and in heaven and hell is that they lend themselves to hostility and aggression while here. If the world is going to be destroyed by fire anyway, why bother being ecosensitive? If you're only going to spend a small amount of time here and the rest of eternity in the afterlife, why bother accomplishing anything here that isn't directly related to your admittance into the best afterlife, or for your own comfort in this life? If you believe that the universe has always been, that life is reincarnated, that all energy is one -- you have more incentive to treat the world and its inhabitants with all compassion and respect. People argue about the answer of how the universe came to be, which side is right, which side is wrong. However, not so many people argue about what each side means.
__________________ ~ Elaine. |
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11-06-2006, 07:38 PM
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| Very good point Elaine. It's a good thing we have a forum like this and that in general more and more people seem to get increasingly conscious. There is still hope for the, err, 'future now'. As Adam said in a different thread, "let's start cleaning up the mess".
__________________ === no sig for now, but [your ad could be here!] |
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11-06-2006, 11:17 PM
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| It seems I'm getting popular, if I'm already being quoted. I have a very thought-out explanation for why the universe exists... It doesn't even begin to cover *how* it exists, though. The one thing that I know for certain is that I am conscious. From that simple fact, I can infer the reason why everything has happened to me. It still doesn't explain how it happened. As far as a creation event, well, I have a hard time with it on both sides of the debate... Humans were made in "God's" image, and humans evolve... We are male and female, some born as both... Just as we have cells that make up our whole, Divinity has egos... Neither the chicken nor the egg came first: they evolved together. Maybe my thoughts are too controversial. I blame it on thinking of singularities too long, both the big-bang and black holes. One thing that I do know, is that the infinite is found as much in the small as it is in the large.
__________________ People often say that 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder,' and I say that the most liberating thing about beauty is realizing that you are the beholder. This empowers us to find beauty in places where others have not dared to look, including inside ourselves. --Salma Hayek My blog: Adam's Peace |
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11-06-2006, 11:18 PM
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| I think time is a circular thing, it has no beginning and no end. (A Trip around the Round Arrow Of Time, I call it) Just like the surface of Earth. Or the four dimensional universe. Therefore all the things would happen again and again, like in the Bible quote. "All that has happened has happened before and will happen again..." etc. We're like in a time-space continuum bubble. Now you could ask me... and what's outside the bubble? That's other realm or so... now what our consciousness can perceive. |
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11-06-2006, 11:48 PM
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| There is the idea, which I read in a recent issue of New Scientist, that the universe expands and contracts as a cycle, like many Big Bangs. There is even speculation that the laws of physics change a little bit each time. Fascinating stuff to contemplate.
__________________ Every thing is always in sync, even if it doesn't seem like it. I find I can tell that my spiritual side is working well when I notice the synchronicities everywhere! -- Court |
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11-07-2006, 01:21 AM
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| I would provide a long, drawn-out explanation, but suffice to say, if you are concerned with the formation of space and time as we know it, there is no doubt that it originated as is described by the Big Bang Theory. The theory predicted a cosmic microwave background radiation spectrum (CMB) which was identical to the experimental results from the COBE project. In fact, the theory was so accurate that on the graph plotting the experimental results superimposed on the theoretically predicted CMB curve, the errors were so insignificant that it was impossible to distinguish the experimentally derived curved from the theoretical curve. The theory predicted our measurement exactly. |
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11-07-2006, 02:58 AM
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I see a lot of answers that are really just unasked questions in disguise. I only accept any means of finding truth as far as it continues to question. Most traditions cease to ask questions once their canonized methods stop yielding answers. How boring. So here's what I think. The universe IS. It is its nature to be; how or what are transient questions. Quantum physics implies that absent observation, energy lacks expressed properties, that it posseses only the potential to be until placed under conditions of observation. That points towards awareness as the origin of the universe as we know it; that the universe is simply a manifestation of consciousness' intention for place. As we are consciousness in the universe, it can be believed that it was our intention (likely in combination with others) for place that caused the forces that created the universe to be set into action. As it is the nature of all things observed in the universe thus far to change, it can be assumed such is the nature of the universe. If that is the case, we can assume that the next state of the universe will likewise be determined and set into motion by our intention. Either that or the universe was sneezed out of the nose of of a being called the Great Green Arkleseizure and we should all fear the coming of the Great White Hanky.
__________________ Manifest Revolution: Live truth. |
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11-07-2006, 03:18 AM
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| There has to no doubt be some scientific explanation to this question, and the Big Bang Theory is our current best guess. However, it still has many flaws, such as what created the matter for the big bang? One day our scientific knowledge may have advanced enough to answer this question conclusively. |
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11-07-2006, 08:26 AM
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infinite curiosity, what a nice feature of humans
__________________ === no sig for now, but [your ad could be here!] |
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11-07-2006, 09:47 AM
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The matter of the big bang came... from the matter of the universe joined together back. Then the big bang explodes till the universe expands then starts to go back again, etc. And what happened before the... the same cycle. Imagine that travel in Time would like traveling in the surface of Earth, if you go forward so much you'll end in the same point that you have started. There's no end and no beginning. My opinion, of course. |
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11-09-2006, 07:55 PM
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| What is this that I read? I gave you a link before yet no one seem to have read it. Better yourself people. It feels like my opinion on this subject was utterly ignored, I would expect more from the Steve Pavlina forums. Now, let's go through this topic, I will begin by quoting myself: Quote:
If you do but one thing this day, then READ THIS LINK. I will say that again: READ THIS LINK: Why does a Universe exist? A journey beyond nothing. Go. Yes, now. Yes! Go, read it, now! Quote:
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) we don't have any proof of "God"'s existence, do we? Given, you could call the universe for "the eternal and almighty God" but you could as easily call God for "the infinity universe". See the point?Quote:
As explaine |