God's Will Vs. Satan's Will, FreeWill Is An Illusion.

[Free]

-What we call dualism is a manifestation of the ultimate conflict between the good spiritual force(God) and the nagative spiritual force(Satan). They are both embedded within what we call the system, globally speaking as there is no nationalities in the spiritual divine realm.
Satan hides behind the name of Jesus, God, bible; he builds schools,hospitals; he feeds the poor etc. He does that just enough to earn our trust and then he starts msleading and hypnetising us.

-God's love includes Satan; the definition of evil is to inflict pain and punishment on others intentionly, and God does not do that; the other reason why God's love includes Satan is that with God there is no time or past, therefore there is no revenge. The third reason is to treat others the way you want to be treated, the self and therefore others want to be treated with peace and love. God's intention is to remove Satan from positions of power where he can menipulate our consciousness and reality.

-Satan exists as a network and a being; God does also.

[aggie]

yes, i suppose one can fall prey to "master manipulation,"....but do you not think that some people willingly let themselves be manipulated in a bad sense, as if the end justifies the means; or one can choose the opposite road to the same end, or in some cases the good or better end?

[Free]

Originally Posted by aggie

yes, i suppose one can fall prey to "master manipulation,"....but do you not think that some people willingly let themselves be manipulated in a bad sense, as if the end justifies the means; or one can choose the opposite road to the same end, or in some cases the good or better end?

People are survivers, they do the best they can do at any given moment; we should not blame ,condem or judge people. All the blame goes to Satan(the devil). We should love and forgive ourselves and each other.
No one choose to be manipulated.

- Satan tells people you have freewill, so he can blame them when they are faced with trouble and disappointment; he would say: you have freeWill(choices) and you must have made the wrong choice you ended up in trouble. He shifts the blame on the victim.

[joelr]

Don't most christian fundamentalists believe in choice?

[Lioness]

Originally Posted by Free

No one choose to be manipulated.

- Satan tells people you have freewill, so he can blame them when they are faced with trouble and disappointment; he would say: you have freeWill(choices) and you must have made the wrong choice you ended up in trouble. He shifts the blame on the victim.

The Christian perspective is that if you follow the teachings of the Bible, it is clear what is sin and what is obedience to God. You either choose to give in to sin (Satan) or to obey God/follow Christ.

Either way, there is no avoiding trouble and disappointment. We are not responsible for all the circumstances we may find ourselves in, however, we choose how we respond. You know right from wrong and it is your choice whether you allow yourself to be manipulated by Satan/evil desires. Choosing the righteous path does not guarantee happiness. Christians believe their reward is in pleasing God, and ultimately, eternal life in heaven.

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by Free

- Satan tells people you have freewill, so he can blame them when they are faced with trouble and disappointment...

And you tell people there is a devil, so you can blame all your problems on him and have an excuse to not take responsibility for them.

Murder somebody lately? Don't stress, it wasn't YOUR fault, the devil MADE you do it...

I must be Satan, since I seem to say the same things you believe he does.

[aggie]

i believe their is good and evil

right and wrong

god and devil (however you perceive them to be)

i believe there is free will to choose the right instead of the wrong

the "devil" can tempt you with wrong over right, if you are led to believe it is a self satisfying, pleasurable, self serving, perhaps even harmful (to others).
"god" gives you the free will to choose the right over the bad.

i only believe people that are severely mentally disturbed and vulnerable can have the "devil" make them do something....i guess like a possession of sorts...the rest have to take responsibility for their actions.

if they "repent" they can/should be forgiven..but still pay their debt or whatever for whatever bad or crime or hurt they have committed. IMO

[Free]

Originally Posted by Lioness

The Christian perspective is that if you follow the teachings of the Bible, it is clear what is sin and what is obedience to God. You either choose to give in to sin (Satan) or to obey God/follow Christ.

Either way, there is no avoiding trouble and disappointment. We are not responsible for all the circumstances we may find ourselves in, however, we choose how we respond. You know right from wrong and it is your choice whether you allow yourself to be manipulated by Satan/evil desires. Choosing the righteous path does not guarantee happiness. Christians believe their reward is in pleasing God, and ultimately, eternal life in heaven.

- The bible does work, but not with everyone.
- Satan hides behind the name of God; he hides behind words such as Jesus, bible etc.
- Satan does good deeds, but just enough to earn people's trust; and then he starts misleading and hypnetising them. And when he is about to be exposed he starts doing more good and less evil and so on.
- There are those who respect what they fear, or out of fear; and there are those who respect out of morality, truth and love. The first group do evil if they think they can get away with it.

- why Satan does evil? because he wants humanity to live in fear; when people live in fear they do what they get told to do; Then he(Satan) rules.

- God's love will conquer Satan's fear. "love cast out fear" . Love is more powerful than fear; love is infinitly powerful.

- there is fear of loosing the job, the house, the car, the self; fear of judgment and how others think of us etc. Fear is Satan in our consciousness, or our sub-consciousness to be specific, motivating our behaviar and the way we handle ourselves.
- Fear is the subconscious; the truth brings fear from the subconscious to the conscious; then fear becomes energy and healing, joy,dance,and happiness.

[aggie]

interesting twist, i must say.

never looked at it quite that way, the way the devil works, but i understand what you are saying.

given that state of the world, i can understand how this works.

satan is a great deceptor, it is a sin to be afraid, and God will conquer satan.

[Diandra25]

a dear friend of mine,who i met few time ago has helped me a lot to understand this theme....

he said:

"What differanciate satanism and divinity.?

''satanism is looking outside for answers, divinity is looking inside.''

The real sight is inside, the ''insight'', that is where we connect to the oneness collective. But as the bible says, you have to loose your life in order to gain it. It means that from the moment you accept to follow the synchronisity that happens in the now, you accept to loose your life because from then on, you won't be the one calling the shot, but let me tell you, you will have the ride of your life".

"satan" is God´s creation.Satan might very well be an Angel,with the mission to make us practise our free arbithrium.

i dont believe in a revengfull God.he is love and we were created at his own image.we are here only to perceive ourselves as One with all,to return to His love again.

and God created this image of "satan" ...there is no Hell...there is no "it was Satan´s fault..." - there is only our own choices....but they invariably lead to heaven when we pass from one level to another....it was Religion who created this fear....but it is a false reality....

[joelr]

Originally Posted by Free

- The bible does work, but not with everyone.
- Satan hides behind the name of God; he hides behind words such as Jesus, bible etc.
- Satan does good deeds, but just enough to earn people's trust; and then he starts misleading and hypnetising them. And when he is about to be exposed he starts doing more good and less evil and so on.
- There are those who respect what they fear, or out of fear; and there are those who respect out of morality, truth and love. The first group do evil if they think they can get away with it.

- why Satan does evil? because he wants humanity to live in fear; when people live in fear they do what they get told to do; Then he(Satan) rules.

- God's love will conquer Satan's fear. "love cast out fear" . Love is more powerful than fear; love is infinitly powerful.

- there is fear of loosing the job, the house, the car, the self; fear of judgment and how others think of us etc. Fear is Satan in our consciousness, or our sub-consciousness to be specific, motivating our behaviar and the way we handle ourselves.
- Fear is the subconscious; the truth brings fear from the subconscious to the conscious; then fear becomes energy and healing, joy,dance,and happiness.

If there is no freewill none of this matters. If everything is preordained then God has simply made a 3D movie out of energy.
Anyone can get away with evil if it's written into their part.

[Free]

Originally Posted by joelr

If there is no freewill none of this matters. If everything is preordained then God has simply made a 3D movie out of energy.
Anyone can get away with evil if it's written into their part.

-Our freewill expressed itself when we were children, when we started asking why things are the way they are, why people die, where who what is God etc. that was our freewill expressing itself, everything else is an illusion, more or less. In other words we have a will for the truth(truth-will), and not for freedom(freewill). The truth sets free. When we are enlightened by the truth we get everything we are after, including eternal paradise with God.
When we are delivered from evil, then we are free, joyful and infinitly happy; The truth does it.

[Free]

Originally Posted by aggie

interesting twist, i must say.

never looked at it quite that way, the way the devil works, but i understand what you are saying.

given that state of the world, i can understand how this works.

satan is a great deceptor, it is a sin to be afraid, and God will conquer satan.

-I like this post; it is not your post or my post, it is a post.

-We think we think but the truth is that thoughts happen in our brain; we think we speak but the truth is that words speak through us. It is an illusion, a mind boggling mystery, but it is unfolding as we speak. "God's mill grinds slow but sure. Share in self-denial, to the best of one's ability, and become God's self, not your self(the ego); and receive the reward directly from God in the form of joy(love), happiness etc. God bless

[joelr]

Originally Posted by Free

-Our freewill expressed itself when we were children, when we started asking why things are the way they are, why people die, where who what is God etc. that was our freewill expressing itself, everything else is an illusion, more or less. In other words we have a will for the truth(truth-will), and not for freedom(freewill). The truth sets free. When we are enlightened by the truth we get everything we are after, including eternal paradise with God.
When we are delivered from evil, then we are free, joyful and infinitly happy; The truth does it.

That idea was likely passed on from Hindu to Christian.

One school of Hindu believes that free will is not really "free" but the result of cause and effect. Actions are also the result of past Karma influencing the present. But conscious choice can cause one to break free of negative karma cycles.
Bad karma is replaced by satan in one of the western versions of mans spiritual tales.

Not all Christians agree on this idea, your views are Arminian but the Calvinistic Christians would disagree. They believe some are predestined for eternal damnation.

[Andrew Brunelle]

I wouldn't say I agree with what you are saying here, but you do have a right to your opinion. I guess if you substitute the word love for God and the word fear for Satan, it makes more sense for me. Those are our two basic emotions or states. This is how I believe God and Satan got started. I would call them more symbols of ourselves than actual beings, but if the whole world is an illusion, then free will is as well.

[Mynder]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

I guess if you substitute the word love for God and the word fear for Satan, it makes more sense for me

Well...judging from how church has used fear as a means to keep masses docile in the past...you might just as well reverse these polarities and it would be no more or less true than your statement if seen from that perspective.

I admit, this doesn't have much to do with free will, though.

[Free]

Originally Posted by Mynder

Well...judging from how church has used fear as a means to keep masses docile in the past...you might just as well reverse these polarities and it would be no more or less true than your statement if seen from that perspective.

I admit, this doesn't have much to do with free will, though.

There is good and evil everywhere; only God is pure good; and Satan is completly evil. It is wrong to blame and condem religain or goverment; because then you are genralising, acusing the inecent as well as the guilty. in order to be acurate you must use the term Satan, he takes the blame.
- The bad within government is Satan, the good within government is God, same with religian. For now God is taking over slow but sure.

[joelr]

Originally Posted by Free

in order to be acurate you must use the term Satan, he takes the blame.
-

No, in order to be a fundamentalist you must use the term satan.

It might be accurate when talking about the world filtered through your version of Christian mythology, but mythological red monsters have nothing to do with the type of accuracy you are talking about.

[Free]

Originally Posted by joelr

No, in order to be a fundamentalist you must use the term satan.

It might be accurate when talking about the world filtered through your version of Christian mythology, but mythological red monsters have nothing to do with the type of accuracy you are talking about.

The word Satan is used here as a descriptive not a condemnative term; so do not feel nervious or afraid to use it.
-words we us are our acknowlagment of thier existance in reality; Satan is real, it does exist.
-This not religion, it is the truth.

[joelr]

Originally Posted by Free

The word Satan is used here as a descriptive not a condemnative term; so do not feel nervious or afraid to use it.
-words we us are our acknowlagment of thier existance in reality; Satan is real, it does exist.
-This not religion, it is the truth.

I don't use the word unless I'm talking about that particular mythology.

Satan is obviously the adversary in the Christian mythos, Ha-Satan was an earlier version and all the similar myths from that time have a similar character, Dionysus of the Greeks, Zeus of Romans, Mithras of the Persians, Osiris, Isis, Horus, etc...

It sounds like rather than think of the story as metaphorical you have decided to take this one myth and insist the characters are real.
That's everyone's right. I'm weighing in with a different opinion.

How come no one believes in Hela the Norse goddess of death anymore? That was a good one.
Even the Norse God Odin had a son who was born of an earth mother and a God father.

[cylon]

My family told me Satan went back in time and made those previous gods seem similar to the life story of Jesus in order to make modern believers doubt how unique Jesus was.

Just saying that reasoning is out there.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by Free

-What we call dualism is a manifestation of the ultimate conflict between the good spiritual force(God) and the nagative spiritual force(Satan). They are both embedded within what we call the system, globally speaking as there is no nationalities in the spiritual divine realm.
Satan hides behind the name of Jesus, God, bible; he builds schools,hospitals; he feeds the poor etc. He does that just enough to earn our trust and then he starts msleading and hypnetising us.

-God's love includes Satan; the definition of evil is to inflict pain and punishment on others intentionly, and God does not do that; the other reason why God's love includes Satan is that with God there is no time or past, therefore there is no revenge. The third reason is to treat others the way you want to be treated, the self and therefore others want to be treated with peace and love. God's intention is to remove Satan from positions of power where he can menipulate our consciousness and reality.

-Satan exists as a network and a being; God does also.

There is another perspective you might consider. Could it be that god represents positive energy and Satan represents negative energy? Neither judged as good nor evil but as a reflection of each other or complementing each other or two sides of the same coin? Can one exist without the other?

How would we know light if there was no darkness?

[joelr]

Originally Posted by cylon

My family told me Satan went back in time and made those previous gods seem similar to the life story of Jesus in order to make modern believers doubt how unique Jesus was.

Just saying that reasoning is out there.

Ah clever.

[Free]

Originally Posted by Maguru

There is another perspective you might consider. Could it be that god represents positive energy and Satan represents negative energy? Neither judged as good nor evil but as a reflection of each other or complementing each other or two sides of the same coin? Can one exist without the other?

How would we know light if there was no darkness?

We would not need to Know. Knowladge becomes unnecesery, because there would not be any problem to investigate. Light, total light means paradise, and in paradise there is no anger, aggression, fear, depression, addictions, seperation and division, there is no pain and suffering, no condemnation,blaming or judging. There is only possitive, total pleasure, joy, and infinite love, peace and freadom.

[AtomicAnt]

This is an interesting conversation but I guess you all know there is no such thing as Satan or evil unless your own mind creates it. If you think anything else is bringing it to you, nope, it's your imagination. And you will get more of it. So stop beating yourself up if you believe such nonsense and just stop thinking things that are not true.

[Al3xander]

Evil is only a potential reality, not a created one. That's because there are differing levels of perfection and because there is freedom of choice, act and will. We are not perfect, but we are free to act as we please either being creative or destructive.

God is incapable of "creating" evil and we are too immature and imperfect to be always good. Goodness is for us an experiential achievement.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by Free

We would not need to Know. Knowladge becomes unnecesery, because there would not be any problem to investigate. Light, total light means paradise, and in paradise there is no anger, aggression, fear, depression, addictions, seperation and division, there is no pain and suffering, no condemnation,blaming or judging. There is only possitive, total pleasure, joy, and infinite love, peace and freadom.

BUT, you would have no knowledge of it.

[Free]

Originally Posted by Maguru

BUT, you would have no knowledge of it.

true, no knowladge; we would or rather will have emossions, feelings of love and pleasure, there would dance and sing and romance and energy beyond imagination.
- Is God male or female? neither, because there is no language with God, there is dance, sing, harmony, romance and eternal paradise.
- That the destiny of humanity, earth is already part of heaven, physicly speaking, but now we do not see that way because we are hypnetised by Satan. I think therefore I am, I am free, free from the illusion.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by Free

true, no knowladge; we would or rather will have emossions, feelings of love and pleasure, there would dance and sing and romance and energy beyond imagination.
- Is God male or female? neither, because there is no language with God, there is dance, sing, harmony, romance and eternal paradise.
- That the destiny of humanity, earth is already part of heaven, physicly speaking, but now we do not see that way because we are hypnetised by Satan. I think therefore I am, I am free, free from the illusion.

The illusion is in thinking we can exist in only a positive state. Freedom from illusion is the acceptance of both.

[Free]

Originally Posted by Maguru

The illusion is in thinking we can exist in only a positive state. Freedom from illusion is the acceptance of both.

Unbeleivable as might seem to be, but humanity is evolving out of dualisim(conflict) toward oness(harmony)
- Satan policy is to divide and rule, he divides humanity into religions,denominations, nationalities, race. divide by languages and so on. all that is created and maintaned by Satan working from within the system. The only conflict or seperation or division is between God and Satan,good and evil,love and hate, joy and anger, truth and deception, pleasure and pain; the conflict is spiritual.