God's Will Vs. Satan's Will, FreeWill Is An Illusion.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by Free

Unbeleivable as might seem to be, but humanity is evolving out of dualisim(conflict) toward oness(harmony)
- Satan policy is to divide and rule, he divides humanity into religions,denominations, nationalities, race. divide by languages and so on. all that is created and maintaned by Satan working from within the system. The only conflict or seperation or division is between God and Satan,good and evil,love and hate, joy and anger, truth and deception, pleasure and pain; the conflict is spiritual.

God and Satan are metaphors for the human condition and whole religions are created around it.

This is how we experience life, good and bad and everything inbetween. This conflict is happening within us all and we have to stop blaming poor Satan and stop expecting god to take responsibility. It's ours.

[Scipio]

Originally Posted by Free

Unbeleivable as might seem to be, but humanity is evolving out of dualisim(conflict) toward oness(harmony)
- Satan policy is to divide and rule, he divides humanity into religions,denominations, nationalities, race. divide by languages and so on. all that is created and maintaned by Satan working from within the system. The only conflict or seperation or division is between God and Satan,good and evil,love and hate, joy and anger, truth and deception, pleasure and pain; the conflict is spiritual.

How do you know this? Did Satan tell you that? Or did God?

I think you're working on behalf of Satan if you so intimately know all of his motivations. Witch!

[Free]

Originally Posted by Scipio

How do you know this? Did Satan tell you that? Or did God?

I think you're working on behalf of Satan if you so intimately know all of his motivations. Witch!

In (me, you), there is conflict; but when there is the third element(the truth,the divine truth), that truth becomes the glue that unite and therefore eliminate (me and you), eliminate the ego(the devil's entety).
Unity brings harmony and therefore love, joy,freedom, happiness and eternal paradise.
- It is not who is right, it is what is right that we need to focus on.

[James81]

I'm gonna play devil's advocate here (no pun intended )...

But what if "God" and "Satan" are man-made constructs onto which we the human race project both our evils and our goods?

Essentially, what if we use the concept of "God" to project onto the greater good that we are incapable of processing emotionally on our own. The things we do that we don't feel "worthy" of accepting the reward for so we "give God the glory" and project our rewards into the future into some sort of afterlife?

In the same vein, what if the devil is a concept that humans created to project all the the things they hate about themselves onto. Something to blame for their evils because they are unwilling (or unable) to accept the respsonsibility for their evils?

[Jaiysun4]

Originally Posted by James81

I'm gonna play devil's advocate here (no pun intended )...

But what if "God" and "Satan" are man-made constructs onto which we the human race project both our evils and our goods?

Essentially, what if we use the concept of "God" to project onto the greater good that we are incapable of processing emotionally on our own. The things we do that we don't feel "worthy" of accepting the reward for so we "give God the glory" and project our rewards into the future into some sort of afterlife?

In the same vein, what if the devil is a concept that humans created to project all the the things they hate about themselves onto. Something to blame for their evils because they are unwilling (or unable) to accept the respsonsibility for their evils?

A really good post. I agree!

I believe religion and spirituality to be a tool. I think all paradigms are important and are adaptive/success strategies.

For example it is true some Alcoholics CANNOT quit until they accept a higher power on the 12 step program, and they then achieve miraculous results.

This belief (of God) may be irrational (scientifically), and thats why its felt in the heart instead. But it is rational in another sense, because it is sometimes advantageous to believe something, not because it is true or false, but because it BENEFITS YOU.

This is why spirituality is so powerful. Because if you genuinely believe (and therefore experience) infinity touching you and assisting you, your mind will forget its barriers to success and you will be able to do better, quicker. You will be able to forgive yourself, will have better self-esteem etc. And the aesthetic value it brings, i.e. the beauty into life is VERY IMPORTANT. Arguably more important than caring about whether it's "true" or not.

The one thing we must never forget however, is that EVERY MINDSET or feeling is simply a tool that is not representative of ultimate truth.

You can use this in many ways. You can not believe in God but CHOOSE to and see the results.

e.g. Islam says all that happens is God's will. So when im so nervous or worried about doing something, I can realise that how well it goes (or the reaction) is out of my hands, and so i no longer worry and just do it without fear.

e.g. Christianity "God loves me." Remarkable healer for self-criticism, regret and your conscience. In my view its you healing yourself, but to get the benefit you have to ACT or truly believe it is God.

e.g. Buddhism "these thoughts are not really me." So every negative thought or impulse you can detach from, and your bad habits are eliminated.

As soon as you no longer need the belief-system or mindset you can/will drop it. But be very careful, because our belief systems weave the story of who we are to ourselves.

[Free]

Originally Posted by James81

I'm gonna play devil's advocate here (no pun intended )...

But what if "God" and "Satan" are man-made constructs onto which we the human race project both our evils and our goods?

Essentially, what if we use the concept of "God" to project onto the greater good that we are incapable of processing emotionally on our own. The things we do that we don't feel "worthy" of accepting the reward for so we "give God the glory" and project our rewards into the future into some sort of afterlife?

In the same vein, what if the devil is a concept that humans created to project all the the things they hate about themselves onto. Something to blame for their evils because they are unwilling (or unable) to accept the respsonsibility for their evils?

Spirit is real, brother, God and Satan exist. It is not just too much talk.
It might take some time to realise this truth. bless all.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by James81

I'm gonna play devil's advocate here (no pun intended )...

But what if "God" and "Satan" are man-made constructs onto which we the human race project both our evils and our goods?

Essentially, what if we use the concept of "God" to project onto the greater good that we are incapable of processing emotionally on our own. The things we do that we don't feel "worthy" of accepting the reward for so we "give God the glory" and project our rewards into the future into some sort of afterlife?

In the same vein, what if the devil is a concept that humans created to project all the the things they hate about themselves onto. Something to blame for their evils because they are unwilling (or unable) to accept the respsonsibility for their evils?

I don't know about the 'devil's advocate', you sound more like one of the three wise men. I think it's a great way to see and know the person you have become. It's very real and can be observed at work and play. It is my new religion.
BTW do you believe what you advocate as more than a possibility?

[James81]

Originally Posted by Maguru

I don't know about the 'devil's advocate', you sound more like one of the three wise men. I think it's a great way to see and know the person you have become. It's very real and can be observed at work and play. It is my new religion.
BTW do you believe what you advocate as more than a possibility?

When it comes to religion, I really have no idea what I believe anymore. I've studied it pretty intensely in the past, I've examined a few other religions (like Buddhism, Taoism), I was raised in a pretty hardcore christian church and was a hardcore christian at one time.

I fell out of church about 10 years ago and during that time I wanted to figure out what I *really* believed. But I never get too deep into it. Probably because I'm afraid of what I'm going to find. I know there's an impending sense of fear inside of me that I'm pretty sure has been instilled in me as a child from those churches I went to and is perpetuated by my christian parents and the community I live in (which is stocked full of christians).

The interesting thing is that that fear hasn't been enough to pull me back into church, but it's been strong enough to keep me from examining other spiritual and religious beliefs for fear that something will change my mind.

And honestly, the fear is "what if I'm wrong?" Know what I mean? I mean, who the heck am I to point my finger at any one religion and say with absolute clarity that THAT religion is right? I think that seems audacious and arrogant (in my opinion of course).

But on the other hand, I feel like if I don't find *something* that when I die I'm gonna end up in "hell." (Another belief perpetuated from fire-n-brimstone sermons as a child)

So, I wander around in my agnostic bliss, tugging at the fringes of religion but keeping a safe distance out of fear. There's also the fear of getting hurt again by going back to a christian church.

Which is all interesting because I was the most sincere, loyal christian you could find back in the day. But I just didn't find anything that compelled me to believe that it wasn't just a bunch of people drumming up hype to feel good about themselves.

So, usually, in discussions like these I play devil's advocate for the different types of things that I've toyed with but never really delved deeply into.

I also fear that this post is going to spur a bunch of you to try and convince me of your respective viewpoints. Which probably means I'll just skim the posts in replying to this post.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by James81

When it comes to religion, I really have no idea what I believe anymore. I've studied it pretty intensely in the past, I've examined a few other religions (like Buddhism, Taoism), I was raised in a pretty hardcore christian church and was a hardcore christian at one time.

I fell out of church about 10 years ago and during that time I wanted to figure out what I *really* believed. But I never get too deep into it. Probably because I'm afraid of what I'm going to find. I know there's an impending sense of fear inside of me that I'm pretty sure has been instilled in me as a child from those churches I went to and is perpetuated by my christian parents and the community I live in (which is stocked full of christians).

The interesting thing is that that fear hasn't been enough to pull me back into church, but it's been strong enough to keep me from examining other spiritual and religious beliefs for fear that something will change my mind.

I honestly believe there isn't much difference between all the religions. They are pretty much the same even scientology follows the same kind of regime.

And honestly, the fear is "what if I'm wrong?" Know what I mean? I mean, who the heck am I to point my finger at any one religion and say with absolute clarity that THAT religion is right? I think that seems audacious and arrogant (in my opinion of course).

Well I must be pretty arrogant and audacious because I think they are ALL wrong!

But on the other hand, I feel like if I don't find *something* that when I die I'm gonna end up in "hell." (Another belief perpetuated from fire-n-brimstone sermons as a child)

So, I wander around in my agnostic bliss, tugging at the fringes of religion but keeping a safe distance out of fear. There's also the fear of getting hurt again by going back to a christian church.

Which is all interesting because I was the most sincere, loyal christian you could find back in the day. But I just didn't find anything that compelled me to believe that it wasn't just a bunch of people drumming up hype to feel good about themselves.

So, usually, in discussions like these I play devil's advocate for the different types of things that I've toyed with but never really delved deeply into.

Well, I have delved into this theory you presented and it's true. God and Satan are projections from humanities' childlike perceptions. I truly believe this because I was there once myself.

I also fear that this post is going to spur a bunch of you to try and convince me of your respective viewpoints. Which probably means I'll just skim the posts in replying to this post.

Ooops! My religion is just 'life'. I don't need to convince anyone to believe in that, just to have a look maybe?

[joelr]

Originally Posted by Free

Spirit is real, brother, God and Satan exist. It is not just too much talk.
It might take some time to realise this truth. bless all.

So much for respecting others beliefs...

[cylon]

They have a proselytizing quota they have to fill.

[Gong01]

Originally Posted by joelr

So much for respecting others beliefs...

For me God, as well as Love and Light exists.
The absence of God is called Satan, the absence of Love is called Fear and the absence of Light is called Darkness.
The interesting point is that there will never be enough darkness to make disappear the light from a humble candle. There is not enough fear to eliminate the real Love.
All the best

[joelr]

Originally Posted by Gong01

For me God, as well as Love and Light exists.
The absence of God is called Satan, the absence of Love is called Fear and the absence of Light is called Darkness.
The interesting point is that there will never be enough darkness to make disappear the light from a humble candle. There is not enough fear to eliminate the real Love.
All the best

Will it take me some time to realize this truth also?


Thank you for the fluffy new age-y words. The other guy says Satan is called Satan. Why do people always compare God to photons?

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by Gong01

For me God, as well as Love and Light exists.
The absence of God is called Satan, the absence of Love is called Fear and the absence of Light is called Darkness.
The interesting point is that there will never be enough darkness to make disappear the light from a humble candle. There is not enough fear to eliminate the real Love.
All the best

You wouldn't see the candle light in the absence of darkness. There is no absence of light and no absence of love and yet fear and darkness exist. When it is not one, it is the other. They co-exist, not independently. It's called LIFE.

[Free]

Originally Posted by Maguru

You wouldn't see the candle light in the absence of darkness. There is no absence of light and no absence of love and yet fear and darkness exist. When it is not one, it is the other. They co-exist, not independently. It's called LIFE.

Break it down; breaking it down gives us better understanding. Within life there is good and evil, do not you agree brother? It is called dualism. Dualism means something and its opposite such as: love and hate, truth and deception, joy and anger, peace and agression, happiness and depression etc. Do not you agree?
Knowladge, true knowladge is the identification and then elimination of the nagative side of this dualism, elimination not by force but by persuading.
So, the absence of darkness is not bad as you sugest.
Would not you want the absence of cancer from your body?
Would not you want the absence of evil and darkness from your life?
Jesus loves you, God bless you.

- The more love we have in our reality, the less fear. The more light the less darkness and so on untill perfection.
- See dualism as negative you must change, and oneness(harmony) as possitive , because your belief helps creat the fact, do not tolerate or compliment darkness and evil, brother.
-Believe brother believe.

[joelr]

They are not separate.
In holy wars no one thinks they are "evil".

The act of telling people that satan is behind all good things could be evil or negative to many. All of the negative/positive judgments are subjective.

You're spreading a message of love by telling everyone that an evil demon is secretly behind every good altruistic institution including schools, hospitals, governments?
That is only a message of fear.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by Free

Break it down; breaking it down gives us better understanding. Within life there is good and evil, do not you agree brother? It is called dualism. Dualism means something and its opposite such as: love and hate, truth and deception, joy and anger, peace and agression, happiness and depression etc. Do not you agree?

Yes I do agree that life contains everything you say here. It's existence and ways in we experience the existence of everything.

Knowladge, true knowladge is the identification and then elimination of the nagative side of this dualism, elimination not by force but by persuading.

We categorize everything to better understand but they all are a part of the one life. Dualism doesn't really exist. It is a human construct of the mind not to be taken literally. All forms of life exist from the alpha to the omega but never separated.

So, the absence of darkness is not bad as you sugest.
Would not you want the absence of cancer from your body?
Would not you want the absence of evil and darkness from your life?
Jesus loves you, God bless you.

- The more love we have in our reality, the less fear. The more light the less darkness and so on untill perfection.
- See dualism as negative you must change, and oneness(harmony) as possitive , because your belief helps creat the fact, do not tolerate or compliment darkness and evil, brother.
-Believe brother believe.

In reality, positive effects often occur following a negative and vice versa. It's the flow of life, the ups and downs, the sadness and happiness, the victories and losses.
You imagine the elimination of negative forces will bring about paradise but in reality it is impossible. God made it that way.

[rei]

yes the 3d version of earth is based in duality. but why does it have to be about god and satan instead of love and fear? it seems they are different ways of saying, basically, the same thing, though one perspective will be more appealing to some than the other.

i don't believe in evil. i believe there are more affirming, conscious choices, and less affirming, conscious choices. whether something is good or evil depends on one's perspective. i guess i see it as the other poster who mentioned that 'satan' seems to be symbolic for all the things humans don't want to or can't admit about themselves.

Free, as joelr pointed out, you are saying there is an evil being involved in the building of schools and hospitals. obviously such a creature would have an agenda. but it seems you have an agenda as well. is it really coming from love to try and scare others into changing their beliefs?

and as Maguru is pointing out, both light and dark, 'good' and 'bad' are all part of the oneness. we get to greater awareness of oneness by accepting all ways it manifests, not by trying to persuade a form of its expression to become something else.

[Free]

Originally Posted by joelr

They are not separate.
In holy wars no one thinks they are "evil".

The act of telling people that satan is behind all good things could be evil or negative to many. All of the negative/positive judgments are subjective.

You're spreading a message of love by telling everyone that an evil demon is secretly behind every good altruistic institution including schools, hospitals, governments?
That is only a message of fear.

-You are misquoting because you are losing the debate and the argument.
-Misquoting is the sign of evil spirit(the devil); you are not the devil or demon but you are a victim to him , but I forgive you.
-The statment goes like this: " Satan does good such as building school, hospitals, feed the poor etc. just enough to earn people's trust and then he starts misleading and hypnetising them"
-

[joelr]

Originally Posted by Free

-You are misquoting because you are losing the debate and the argument.
-Misquoting is the sign of evil spirit(the devil); you are not the devil or demon but you are a victim to him , but I forgive you.
-The statment goes like this: " Satan does good such as building school, hospitals, feed the poor etc. just enough to earn people's trust and then he starts misleading and hypnetising them"
-

There is no debate or argument here?!

This thread is like:

"Godzilla is coming to kill you all unless you worship his enemy Gamora!"

"But there is no Godzilla?"

"Godzilla is coming to kill you all unless you worship his enemy Gamora!"

"He's just a tv monster"

"Godzilla is coming to kill you all it is true brother"

"Why would you think that? Do you have a historical record of thi..."

"GODZILLA"

I'm am obviously changing words but giving a description of how I am seeing the discussion. That is not a debate. I'm simply pointing out a different view. The remainder of the thread is basically people saying - "it's a metaphor"

As for the mis quote:

YOU - Satan does good such as building school, hospitals, feed the poor etc. just enough to earn people's trust and then he starts misleading and hypnetising them"

ME - an evil demon is secretly behind every good altruistic institution including schools, hospitals, governments?


I'm not seeing a big difference. It is a MESSAGE OF FEAR! I can't say you are a devil because I don't believe in such things. I do believe in fear and I believe this mythology is damaging, fear-mongering and about as worthwhile as the Godzilla debate considering there seems to be no intention to discuss anyones valid comments beyond simply re-stating your version of truth.


How dare anyone speak against your message!!
They must surely be A VICTIM TO HIM!!!!
If you have your own opinion it will not be discussed because you are A VICTIM TO HIM!!!

[Free]

Originally Posted by joelr

So much for respecting others beliefs...

Do not be content, be content with the material but not the spiritual(mental), constintly seek more joy, happiness, truth(divine Knowlage), and infinite love and paradise.

[Silence Dogood]

Originally Posted by Free

-What we call dualism is a manifestation of the ultimate conflict between the good spiritual force(God) and the nagative spiritual force(Satan). They are both embedded within what we call the system, globally speaking as there is no nationalities in the spiritual divine realm.
Satan hides behind the name of Jesus, God, bible; he builds schools,hospitals; he feeds the poor etc. He does that just enough to earn our trust and then he starts msleading and hypnetising us.

-God's love includes Satan; the definition of evil is to inflict pain and punishment on others intentionly, and God does not do that; the other reason why God's love includes Satan is that with God there is no time or past, therefore there is no revenge. The third reason is to treat others the way you want to be treated, the self and therefore others want to be treated with peace and love. God's intention is to remove Satan from positions of power where he can menipulate our consciousness and reality.

-Satan exists as a network and a being; God does also.

We are God's thoughts playing out. We are experiencing God's thoughts. One of his thoughts include Satan, which is present in our experiences as evil.

[joelr]

Originally Posted by Free

Do not be content, be content with the material but not the spiritual(mental), constintly seek more joy, happiness, truth(divine Knowlage), and infinite love and paradise.

I shall.