Awakening

[Maguru]

Many believe they have 'woken up' and many believe they are in the process of 'waking up'. What are we waking up from? What are we waking up to?

All that I can see are changes in the mind. New ideas, thoughts, perceptions and beliefs but what makes them true and the others false? Could all this, under the heading of 'spirituality', be a 'mind' game?

[celestialife]

What most people, I think, refer to when they talk about "waking" is attaining enlightment or self-actualization. Working definitions of both can be found here and here.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Maguru

Could all this, under the heading of 'spirituality', be a 'mind' game?

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[themaster]

Do you really want to know??

Ohh.. alright.. I'll tell you what I know with a low amount of depth and history..

What are we waking up from?

Limitation.. a very long experience of it

What are we waking up to?

Our selves.. you ever feel like you don't belong?

Well, that idea resonates in a lot of us.. here is a nice translation of that idea.. we were born purposely in a time of wakening up.. and that don't belong feeling.. can be changed too.. "do belong" when we go through "the shift" or one name for it..

Originally Posted by Maguru

All that I can see are changes in the mind. New ideas, thoughts, perceptions and beliefs but what makes them true and the others false? Could all this, under the heading of 'spirituality', be a 'mind' game?

If you like.. I call it a limitation game.. that certainly is a mind game.. since all our limitations are hidden in our mind/soul in very subconscious, unconscious and various other process's..

If you be paying attention to these new ideas.. you might realize there coming about cause of "the shift" not for any other random purpose.. if you feel some of the excitement going on out there.. that is cause we are going from radical perspective of lack to a very positive perspective of multi-dimensionality and a lot of other things..

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by themaster

Do you really want to know??

Thanks for the response. I have my own ideas but I wanted to know how others feel about the subject.

Ohh.. alright.. I'll tell you what I know with a low amount of depth and history..

What are we waking up from?

Limitation.. a very long experience of it

What limitation would that be?

What are we waking up to?

Our selves..

If we are waking up to ourselves then we must be waking up from ourselves also. It would be like a before and after version of ourself. And what is the difference?

you ever feel like you don't belong?

Well, that idea resonates in a lot of us.. here is a nice translation of that idea.. we were born purposely in a time of wakening up.. and that don't belong feeling.. can be changed too.. "do belong" when we go through "the shift" or one name for it..If you like.. I call it a limitation game.. that certainly is a mind game.. since all our limitations are hidden in our mind/soul in very subconscious, unconscious and various other process's..

If you be paying attention to these new ideas.. you might realize there coming about cause of "the shift" not for any other random purpose.. if you feel some of the excitement going on out there.. that is cause we are going from radical perspective of lack to a very positive perspective of multi-dimensionality and a lot of other things..

I was suggesting that most, if not all these 'spiritual ideas' i.e. the shift, awakening etc; could be just games played out in our minds.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by celestialife

What most people, I think, refer to when they talk about "waking" is attaining enlightment or self-actualization. Working definitions of both can be found here and here.

Thanks for the links. It seems self-actualization describes the human experience whereas 'enlightenment' describes a spiritual experience which is quite often tied to a religious perspective or tradition.

However this definition .............

Spiritual awakening
•Religious experience (also known as a spiritual experience, sacred experience, or mystical experience) is a subjective experience where an individual reports contact with a transcendent reality, an encounter or union with the divine..............
seems to be more favourable. regards

[themaster]

Originally Posted by Maguru

What limitation would that be?

Well, before I answers your question.. I do have to warn of the idea of invalidation.. you see there are many in this world and on here that would invalidate any idea based on lack of proof or without a scientific backing.. so if this is your case you may not want to read on..

A long while ago we started this game in our linear history that was 17,500 years ago or so.. in the city that everyone surprisingly or mostly knows the name.. Atlantis.. in this city.. we actually de-accelerated from 4th dimension to the 3rd dimension.. in doing so we actually took on limitation and created this reality (feel like invalidating now?)

In Atlantis there was no.. I don't know why I exist, no idea of lack.. negativity.. (duality it's also called) there was connection to our inner self's, oversouls and other selves..

The game is just about over.. really were in the final stretch now.. many times have we tried to come out of this limitation game.. this is the 3rd try.. and it is already going to succeed it has already been decided..

So the limitation is the ideas of lack, the ideas of war, negativity.. again also called duality.. the 4th dimension which you will either soon be in if you join me will take away a lot of the hurt of this reality.. you see the idea is that we have "explored" everything that this reality has to offer in the last 12,500 years or so.. and we now wish to explore re-connected

Originally Posted by Maguru

If we are waking up to ourselves then we must be waking up from ourselves also. It would be like a before and after version of ourself. And what is the difference?

Well, the idea is and I'll state again.. this 3rd dimension is full of ideas of lack, negativity.. war if you will but that's not it.. the ideas that are also going or silly is the idea of good vs. evil or the idea that there is right way to be and a wrong way to be.. from a higher perspective.. there is no wrong way to be

The difference is when you move into 4th dimension (that is a assumption.. if you come into my reality with me.. then there'll you be.. but at the same time you're in your own) you will have more connections to yourself, more knowledge, more peace or at least goodwill and get to explore a different reality.. you have already decided to come.. (from a higher perspective) the only way that won't happen is if you decide to die (death is choice) in my reality.. as for all your own reality's while it might sound mind boggling understand that there are millions to billions of realities.. think infinity.. then think unlimited and then you only have a grasp of the 3rd dimension or 3rd density

Originally Posted by Maguru

I was suggesting that most, if not all these 'spiritual ideas' i.e. the shift, awakening etc; could be just games played out in our minds.

Sure, they could.. I won't argue with that.. my teachers says the first rule of existence for all reality's is..

1. You exist.

Now you don't have to believe him.. but I would suggest doing it as a form of optimism, after all the alternative is then you have to say I exist inside "the matrix" or a supercomputer.. (note our recent scientists theory's say you can exist in a supercomputer they say.. we will build one in the future capable of mimicking reality )

But the only way you're not going through a "shift" as it where is if you're a pessimist with the above scenario.. you see if not.. then evolution is a "shift" Did you think we were going to stay primitive humans forever?

So undeniably there is a "shift" happening and the real one I outlined above.. unless you die from my reality is the one you're going through.. I'm sorry if the whole multiple reality theory makes it more difficult.. but I have to share this idea from my perspective.. I cannot be in yours at the moment

You know, I know I made this into a over-complicated mess.. it's just what I feel like sharing right now.. I see now too that I wrote it with the idea that you would be coming to my reality and would see this as the truth eventually..

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by themaster

Well, before I answers your question.. I do have to warn of the idea of invalidation.. you see there are many in this world and on here that would invalidate any idea based on lack of proof or without a scientific backing.. so if this is your case you may not want to read on..

A long while ago we started this game in our linear history that was 17,500 years ago or so.. in the city that everyone surprisingly or mostly knows the name.. Atlantis.. in this city.. we actually de-accelerated from 4th dimension to the 3rd dimension.. in doing so we actually took on limitation and created this reality (feel like invalidating now?)

Err Yes!

In Atlantis there was no.. I don't know why I exist, no idea of lack.. negativity.. (duality it's also called) there was connection to our inner self's, oversouls and other selves..

The game is just about over.. really were in the final stretch now.. many times have we tried to come out of this limitation game.. this is the 3rd try.. and it is already going to succeed it has already been decided..

So the limitation is the ideas of lack, the ideas of war, negativity.. again also called duality.. the 4th dimension which you will either soon be in if you join me will take away a lot of the hurt of this reality.. you see the idea is that we have "explored" everything that this reality has to offer in the last 12,500 years or so.. and we now wish to explore re-connected

Well, the idea is and I'll state again.. this 3rd dimension is full of ideas of lack, negativity.. war if you will but that's not it.. the ideas that are also going or silly is the idea of good vs. evil or the idea that there is right way to be and a wrong way to be.. from a higher perspective.. there is no wrong way to be

The difference is when you move into 4th dimension (that is a assumption.. if you come into my reality with me.. then there'll you be.. but at the same time you're in your own) you will have more connections to yourself, more knowledge, more peace or at least goodwill and get to explore a different reality.. you have already decided to come.. (from a higher perspective) the only way that won't happen is if you decide to die (death is choice) in my reality.. as for all your own reality's while it might sound mind boggling understand that there are millions to billions of realities.. think infinity.. then think unlimited and then you only have a grasp of the 3rd dimension or 3rd density

Yes I understand the possibility of billions of realities and I understand that we are moving towards unity and away from duality. That isn't rocket science if you know yourself. However, it is the perception that changes our experiences of reality, rather than us changing reality, and it can happen here and now in this dimension that we are already experiencing. Change self = change experience of reality = change reality.

Sure, they could.. I won't argue with that.. my teachers says the first rule of existence for all reality's is..

1. You exist.

Now you don't have to believe him.. but I would suggest doing it as a form of optimism, after all the alternative is then you have to say I exist inside "the matrix" or a supercomputer.. (note our recent scientists theory's say you can exist in a supercomputer they say.. we will build one in the future capable of mimicking reality )

But the only way you're not going through a "shift" as it where is if you're a pessimist with the above scenario.. you see if not.. then evolution is a "shift" Did you think we were going to stay primitive humans forever?

So undeniably there is a "shift" happening and the real one I outlined above.. unless you die from my reality is the one you're going through.. I'm sorry if the whole multiple reality theory makes it more difficult.. but I have to share this idea from my perspective.. I cannot be in yours at the moment

You know, I know I made this into a over-complicated mess.. it's just what I feel like sharing right now.. I see now too that I wrote it with the idea that you would be coming to my reality and would see this as the truth eventually..

Hmm... I have to agree with the complications. I think your reality is the same as mine. We just think differently in the same dimension.

[Strangemagik]

For me it just means becoming more conscious. I think enlightenment can totally be pulled aside from a spiritual context in regards to 'religion' and just be awareness of your higher self(or soul). Definitely agree with the self actualization part someone mentioned.

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by Maguru

Many believe they have 'woken up' and many believe they are in the process of 'waking up'. What are we waking up from? What are we waking up to?

All that I can see are changes in the mind. New ideas, thoughts, perceptions and beliefs but what makes them true and the others false? Could all this, under the heading of 'spirituality', be a 'mind' game?

Life is a mind game, and it always has been.

There is a truth out there, somewhere, and I believe it is simple, but we like to make it complicated.

It's like we were trying to see the bottom of the pond but it was dark outside, and windy, and there were many waves upon the surface of the pond, creating visual distortions when we'd try to see the bottom. It was frustrating you see.

But guess what?

The sun is coming up.............the wind is stopping.............our vision is improving...

The pond is becoming still.

We're starting to make out what is on the bottom. And there are many gems indeed.

[themaster]

Originally Posted by Maguru

Err Yes!

Actually, your fine to invalidate this statement if you want.. it is one version of the truth.. but I see on reflection now.. it's not really helping and best not used in the future

Originally Posted by Maguru

We just think differently in the same dimension.

Yes, we most definitely have different perspectives.. yet likely you end up sharing many ideas with me; do to this being a reality of my construction.. this is my theory/working on belief anyway

[Melchior]

Originally Posted by Maguru

Many believe they have 'woken up' and many believe they are in the process of 'waking up'. What are we waking up from? What are we waking up to?

All that I can see are changes in the mind. New ideas, thoughts, perceptions and beliefs but what makes them true and the others false? Could all this, under the heading of 'spirituality', be a 'mind' game?

I think celestialife gave a good answer to the first part. The universe we 'wake up' from and 'wake up' to are the same universe. Only that our understanding of that universe have changed, or as you put it, changes in the mind. What makes these 'new' thoughts true and the others false? Well, that you believe them, of course. Either way though, as long as your operative capacities with respect to the universe are improved as a result, what's the use in falsifying it? Things are true if they are a correct way to describe the world, just like mathematics, it's considered correct because that's just the way it is. I'm not so sure about the 'mind' game part though. Evolution of thought to an end of attaining deeper truth, perhaps, a part of human nature, perhaps, but simply a game, I think if you replaced game with something of less 'trivial' connotations, maybe I'd go for it. It's interesting though where this 'game' has led itself though, a destruction of itself (or perhaps that's all part of it as well? ).

[Rhythman]

For me, waking up is the falling away of a separate sense of self. What is left is direct experience of what is happening now without a separate entity experiencing it.

rhythman

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by Melchior

I think celestialife gave a good answer to the first part. The universe we 'wake up' from and 'wake up' to are the same universe. Only that our understanding of that universe have changed, or as you put it, changes in the mind. What makes these 'new' thoughts true and the others false? Well, that you believe them, of course. Either way though, as long as your operative capacities with respect to the universe are improved as a result, what's the use in falsifying it?

The mind can genuinely believe something that is false.

Things are true if they are a correct way to describe the world, just like mathematics, it's considered correct because that's just the way it is. I'm not so sure about the 'mind' game part though. Evolution of thought to an end of attaining deeper truth, perhaps, a part of human nature, perhaps, but simply a game, I think if you replaced game with something of less 'trivial' connotations, maybe I'd go for it. It's interesting though where this 'game' has led itself though, a destruction of itself (or perhaps that's all part of it as well? ).

It isn't so much the about actual "Game' that's played out but the player. The player being the mind. The mind can make mountains out of molehills and doesn't know the difference. Are we in control of our minds or are they programmed to play out the same old game whatever that game maybe?

[Melchior]

Originally Posted by Maguru

The mind can genuinely believe something that is false.

Yeah, I know, that's what the bit about whatever you believing in is true because you believe it to be true. I never said that what it believed in was 'actually' true. That said, I think you would agree that there are far too many 'truths' hanging around...

It isn't so much the about actual "Game' that's played out but the player. The player being the mind. The mind can make mountains out of molehills and doesn't know the difference. Are we in control of our minds or are they programmed to play out the same old game whatever that game maybe?

I think that question might be a bit unfair. What is this 'we' that we're dealing with with respect to the 'mind' that we're dealing with. The question assumes that there is a 'we' to begin with, and a 'mind' to begin with as well. Maybe the two are the same thing and only 'we' make them different. Maybe there is no such thing as free will and the resulting behaviors are merely a consequence of our biological program with respect to the environment that program runs in. Maybe these so called 'mind games' and sense of duality that emerges from them, are a part of that program in an effort for the program to replicate itself, getting better and better at each iteration in furthering its existence, a pattern that emerges from a rather chaotic universe. Maybe 'I' would believe all that if it weren't for this program working its magic so that 'I' continue 'working'. Otherwise the program essentially fails at its goal of replication. That there is a valid theory of the universe and one much more leaning toward the program thing, and also one that has a much higher chance of being correct due to the empirical evidence that has accumulated over the years in comparison to the idea that there is a 'consciousness' separated from the physical world that interacts with the physical world through the vessel of a 'body'. Fortunately for us, supposed defense mechanisms of the first theory lean people toward the second theory. But that doesn't make either more 'correct', but rather the second more true. Moreover, the second one is much more 'useful' in terms of being happy and all. The first is neither, but rather neutral. Interestingly enough, I'm more drawn toward the first (and maybe you are too?). In terms of replicating however, I would think the first would be more favorable, or rather, makes generations obsolete easier.

Well, that was a mouthful, said more than I think I intended.... >.>
(Something else just occurred to me as well, under the emergent patterns theory, the best way to go about would not be polarized to 'lightworker'/'darkworker' because either extreme I don't think does the best as a whole. but rather, the way would be a neutral path, because there would be no other choice. ;P).
In any case, thanks for your prompting. ^_^

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by Melchior

Yeah, I know, that's what the bit about whatever you believing in is true because you believe it to be true. I never said that what it believed in was 'actually' true. That said, I think you would agree that there are far too many 'truths' hanging around...


I think that question might be a bit unfair. What is this 'we' that we're dealing with with respect to the 'mind' that we're dealing with. The question assumes that there is a 'we' to begin with, and a 'mind' to begin with as well. Maybe the two are the same thing and only 'we' make them different. Maybe there is no such thing as free will and the resulting behaviors are merely a consequence of our biological program with respect to the environment that program runs in. Maybe these so called 'mind games' and sense of duality that emerges from them, are a part of that program in an effort for the program to replicate itself, getting better and better at each iteration in furthering its existence, a pattern that emerges from a rather chaotic universe. Maybe 'I' would believe all that if it weren't for this program working its magic so that 'I' continue 'working'. Otherwise the program essentially fails at its goal of replication. That there is a valid theory of the universe and one much more leaning toward the program thing, and also one that has a much higher chance of being correct due to the empirical evidence that has accumulated over the years in comparison to the idea that there is a 'consciousness' separated from the physical world that interacts with the physical world through the vessel of a 'body'. Fortunately for us, supposed defense mechanisms of the first theory lean people toward the second theory. But that doesn't make either more 'correct', but rather the second more true. Moreover, the second one is much more 'useful' in terms of being happy and all. The first is neither, but rather neutral. Interestingly enough, I'm more drawn toward the first (and maybe you are too?). In terms of replicating however, I would think the first would be more favorable, or rather, makes generations obsolete easier.

Well, that was a mouthful, said more than I think I intended.... >.>
(Something else just occurred to me as well, under the emergent patterns theory, the best way to go about would not be polarized to 'lightworker'/'darkworker' because either extreme I don't think does the best as a whole. but rather, the way would be a neutral path, because there would be no other choice. ;P).
In any case, thanks for your prompting. ^_^

I think you lost me with many 'maybes'. I'm trying to look at what is that we already know. 'What ifs' lead to many possibilities and as you say, many truths. We complicate everything.

In my personal experience and observing others, I've seen repetitious patterns i.e. repeated experiences. I believe the mind knows no other way to experience and just plays out the same old game with little or no change.

I don't believe we are the mind because the mind can be controlled by ? I believe the mind does replay everything over and over until separation occurrs.

It isn't a conscious mind game because it is the unconsciousness that makes it a game or an illusion.

I believe the first step in our spritual evolution is to know we have a mind and to know we are not just our mind. We are much more.

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by Rhythman

For me, waking up is the falling away of a separate sense of self. What is left is direct experience of what is happening now without a separate entity experiencing it.

rhythman

Yes, I think so too. However, I believe awareness/knowing of the separate self comes before the fall. Regards

[Melchior]

Originally Posted by Maguru

I think you lost me with many 'maybes'. I'm trying to look at what is that we already know. 'What ifs' lead to many possibilities and as you say, many truths. We complicate everything.

In my personal experience and observing others, I've seen repetitious patterns i.e. repeated experiences. I believe the mind knows no other way to experience and just plays out the same old game with little or no change.

I think the 'maybes' were just me expressing what I thought would be the consequences of such an awakening with respect to the idea that the awakening is really just a 'mind game'. The defense mechanisms would then be the result of the 'mind' trying to protect itself in lieu of a shattered duality. The replication part that I talked about was essentially that 'we', as well as all emergent patterns in the otherwise chaotic universe, are patterns that attempt to continue remaining a pattern. In other words, stripping our existence to the replication of DNA. That bit I added at the end on polarity was that polarity didn't really matter as long as the path taken was the most 'effective' one whichever that may be and that lightworking/darkworking were just 'paths')

I don't believe we are the mind because the mind can be controlled by ? I believe the mind does replay everything over and over until separation occurrs.

It isn't a conscious mind game because it is the unconsciousness that makes it a game or an illusion.

I believe the first step in our spritual evolution is to know we have a mind and to know we are not just our mind. We are much more.

Didn't really get that ? (question mark) in the middle of that first sentence there... >.>
Also, if it is just a 'mind game' then the separation that occurs is only a part of it. If it is a 'mind game' then conscious is just an illusory product of the unconscious playing itself out. As for the comment on being more than just our 'mind', I think I've already taken that step. Or was that just the result of the 'mind game'? In response, I think you've gotten off the path of this particular original question of yours (that last one in the first post) which I took as just wondering if awakening was or wasn't a mind game, a trick played by the idea of a 'mind'. I still stand by my original answer that perhaps I would go for the explanation if not for the connotations brought up by the word 'game', because I don't think whatever processes are at work are simply a 'game', but rather what is 'real'. In other words, awakening might be, and probably is, changes in this abstraction of a region of the universe we call the 'mind', but it certainly isn't a 'game'. Moreover, and I repeat, if the results, or new 'truths', garnered by this awakening are better in terms of operating in the world than the old 'truths', then I see no reason why these new 'truths' shouldn't be 'true' (then again, I also ascribe to the notion that what is known as the 'truth' is susceptible to change, adapting to what we 'know' of the world).

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by Melchior

I think the 'maybes' were just me expressing what I thought would be the consequences of such an awakening with respect to the idea that the awakening is really just a 'mind game'. The defense mechanisms would then be the result of the 'mind' trying to protect itself in lieu of a shattered duality. The replication part that I talked about was essentially that 'we', as well as all emergent patterns in the otherwise chaotic universe, are patterns that attempt to continue remaining a pattern. In other words, stripping our existence to the replication of DNA. That bit I added at the end on polarity was that polarity didn't really matter as long as the path taken was the most 'effective' one whichever that may be and that lightworking/darkworking were just 'paths')


Didn't really get that ? (question mark) in the middle of that first sentence there... >.>
Also, if it is just a 'mind game' then the separation that occurs is only a part of it. If it is a 'mind game' then conscious is just an illusory product of the unconscious playing itself out. As for the comment on being more than just our 'mind', I think I've already taken that step. Or was that just the result of the 'mind game'? In response, I think you've gotten off the path of this particular original question of yours (that last one in the first post) which I took as just wondering if awakening was or wasn't a mind game, a trick played by the idea of a 'mind'. I still stand by my original answer that perhaps I would go for the explanation if not for the connotations brought up by the word 'game', because I don't think whatever processes are at work are simply a 'game', but rather what is 'real'. In other words, awakening might be, and probably is, changes in this abstraction of a region of the universe we call the 'mind', but it certainly isn't a 'game'. Moreover, and I repeat, if the results, or new 'truths', garnered by this awakening are better in terms of operating in the world than the old 'truths', then I see no reason why these new 'truths' shouldn't be 'true' (then again, I also ascribe to the notion that what is known as the 'truth' is susceptible to change, adapting to what we 'know' of the world).

Maybe 'game' isn't the best way to look at this but I wanted to keep it light hearted. It's only a perspective or a concept in order to have an image or understanding of the human psyche. The mind 'game' is a 'game played' entirely in the mind. The 'game' isn't based in reality.

The 'game' is thinking things, then getting hooked on and becoming the thoughts. Whereas, awakening to the 'game' is to become the Thinker!

Sorry for the repeated 'game' word but it's the easiest way for me to explain an intangible experience that requires metaphors. It's just symbolic. regards

[Melchior]

Originally Posted by Maguru

Maybe 'game' isn't the best way to look at this but I wanted to keep it light hearted. It's only a perspective or a concept in order to have an image or understanding of the human psyche. The mind 'game' is a 'game played' entirely in the mind. The 'game' isn't based in reality.

The 'game' is thinking things, then getting hooked on and becoming the thoughts. Whereas, awakening to the 'game' is to become the Thinker!

Sorry for the repeated 'game' word but it's the easiest way for me to explain an intangible experience that requires metaphors. It's just symbolic. regards

No worries, these things are generally difficult to express with words...
Anyway, I don't think there's anything 'entirely' in the mind, but I think I get what you might be trying to say is that the 'game' is an illusion that exists in reality while the mechanics behind the game is a product of reality, what is generated from the game does not necessarily follow what reality actually is. (in other words, the illusion is real as an illusion, but not real in of itself). Is there a way to escape this illusion then? We may never know, as the illusions may be infinitely nested within themselves. But, I'm thinking that awakening is a way to bypass the 'game' and get to 'reality' even if the process of awakening is an illusion as well. Was that what you were getting at?

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by Melchior

No worries, these things are generally difficult to express with words...
Anyway, I don't think there's anything 'entirely' in the mind, but I think I get what you might be trying to say is that the 'game' is an illusion that exists in reality while the mechanics behind the game is a product of reality, what is generated from the game does not necessarily follow what reality actually is. (in other words, the illusion is real as an illusion, but not real in of itself).

Thankyou, yes. That does sum it up very well.

Is there a way to escape this illusion then? We may never know, as the illusions may be infinitely nested within themselves. But, I'm thinking that awakening is a way to bypass the 'game' and get to 'reality' even if the process of awakening is an illusion as well. Was that what you were getting at?

I don't think 'awakening' itself is an illusion because we do experience becoming aware of aspects of life that we were previously unaware of. It just feels like waking up.

From my experience, 'awakening' is comprised of challenging beliefs, uncovering beliefs, changing beliefs and creating new ones, which in turn creates a new view of self, others and the world as it is now. I feel the focus needs to be on "waking up to yourself as is." Everything outside of what is, is at best only part of the picture. regards

[jasonwisdom]

Pay attention not to the theory but to the experience you are having.
When your experience fills out and blossoms...
...you won't care about the theory anyway.

[Melchior]

@Maguru: Well, it seems like you've already answered your own questions.

@jasonwisdom: When the student is ready, the teacher will appear?