Truth?

[Uplift]

This is a hard question to ask, or topic to discuss in a positive slant. From what I can grasp, Truth is, or must be the basic make up and unbreakable law of spirit, God, Supreme Being or whatever we call the source and fabric of anything. So this question plagues me. If there is this all loving, all equal, all knowing, supreme whatever, consisting of, or motivated by truth, and it is truly unlimited as numerous teachings expouse, why are some children born as drug addicts, toys for paedophiles, starving, tortured, etc, etc. Why the Tibetans, Indigenous Peoples (anyone remember them)? Does anyone really believe it is their choice, so that they can learn, if they are lucky? Would you, if you were totally unlimited, totally capable of anything (like the supreme whatever), choose pain and suffering as the ultimate teaching method? Try and tell a sixth month old child being tortured that it just needs to align or adjust it's thinking, and that it is learning an awesome incredible lesson, that the whole thing isnt real. If that is the best that God or whatever can do, then the phrase 'God help us' is useless. If the Supreme Being has limits, where is the truth? If there is no truth, the whole thing falls apart, dog eat dog. So can anyone truthfully give a good answer?

[ethereal]

I'll try to give it a shot

God is so infinitely loving that he allows complete freedom for beings to choose their destiny, also called free will. You can say that parents are loving by wanting to protect their children, but what if their children want something that is bad for them, and you couldn't convince them otherwise? Out of infinite love, you allow them to experience what they choose to, even though you know it will hurt them, and you hope that they will learn their lesson. So human beings, out of curiosity, ate the apple of knowledge (birth of ego and duality), and thus suffering was born. Note that this is just the simplified parable version someone else can perhaps give a more detailed explanation.

Now, in our universe there is the law of karma, which is basically the universal teaching lesson for spiritual growth. There is also reincarnation, and the ability to choose major lessons for each lifetime. Most of the time, the horrors you are describing are actually chosen by people's "souls", just that they are not consciously aware of it. Through past-life regression people often find out or intuit what lessons they were supposed to learn due to negative karma in previous lifetimes, and it explains why they suffer through certain things or events.

The choice is always there for someone to completely surrender their ego positionalities and attachments to God, and all suffering would cease. But most people, consciously or unconsciously, are severely attached to their ego and deny God. It is not people's "fault" per se, it is just the reality that we're born with an ego and the ego is what it is, an illusion sustaining itself through duality and negativity. People can't help being who they are.

Most people, when they pray to God, are actually demanding God to change something for them. "Dear God, I want ____... please ____..." In these cases, the person didn't really surrender anything to God, they actually want to take something from Him! God is infinitely powerful and giving, but he is also infinitely just in providing exactly what you choose to align with by allowing complete free will. When people are aligned with greed, self-pity, irresponsibility, etc., well what else do you expect God to respond with? When the ego finally struggles against suffering and collapses and admits that it is completely helpless...that is when people pray to God and say, "Oh God, Thy will be done...I am willing to surrender everything, even my life, to thee" and that is where Divine Grace enters where the ego previously staunchly defended its position and allows changes to occur, by assent of personal will (choice). That is why you see prisoners convert into saints, why Alcoholics Anonymous and 12-step groups are so effective, etc. The ego is not willing to give up its sovereignty, even if it takes a person's life, unless it has completely collapsed and hit bottom or unless it was fortunate enough (earned enough karmic merit) to discover spirituality. That's just how it is.

Of course, it is rare to have the ego actually give in like that, so most of the time people just go through many lifetimes of lessons to learn. The thing is, with each life you forget everything that happened before, so you have free choice to go up or down spiritually, and so it's really a long process and having to repay karmic debt is common. Think about all the negativity and cruelty and selfishness in the world today, it seems pretty plausible that they'll have to repay that debt in some fashion, why not a tortured six month old child? Who knows?

Anyway, hope this clears up some of your questions happy to keep discussing.

[Uplift]

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but can you say that that's how it is for sure? I read all that too, but the truth is you are limiting God. Again, all of a sudden, God is unable to find compassionate ways of teaching, unable to deal with the wayward ego. Can you honestly put an Indian kid, maimed at birth, used as a tool for begging for money, and thrown in the dump, as a stubborn, wayward child? Can you say for a fact its 'soul' chose the path? Anyone know anyone, or any souls who have experienced this? Again, suddenly God is unable to show us simply, yet we are talking about an unlimited being

[ethereal]

Whenever you ask for proof "for sure", you're not going to get it... it's the whole subjective reality lens that you gotta try on to see if it works better or not. How do we know anything for sure, anyway?

You know, pretty much all of the suffering we see is man-made, and we blame it on God. We're the ones destroying the environment, we're the ones creating nuclear bombs, we're the ones shooting civilians and suicide bombing school busses over some piece of holy land that they think they can "own", when in fact it is now calibrated to be unholy due to all the blood spilled over it and you can't "own" anything anyway, much less land that belongs to Mother Earth. We already have the technology to feed/clothe/shelther the whole world, but we're not doing it. I don't see how we can actually blame God for any of it... blame him for allowing criminals and cruel dictators and serial killers to be born? For sin to happen in the first place? Even then it was Man who out of curiosity, ate the apple and caused it to happen...

Also, keep in mind the theory that Earth is a karmic/spiritual training ground...it is MEANT to be good and bad, to the extreme. This allows people the complete spectrum of choice in which they wish to align themselves as. That's why many of the sages say the world is perfect as it is, there is no need to change it.

And finally to address your example, it may be a case of negative karmic debt to repay. What if in a past lifetime that kid was the one who was torturing/robbing other people, and now needs to learn the lesson and repay his debt? You have to take everything into context, not just isolate a single incident as good or bad. It's like the yin-yang concept, everything flows together. Karma just so happens to be a natural rule of the universe like gravity, souls here do not get to choose whether its "on" or "off" unless they're enlightened

[AndyMartin]

It's a painful question, and I wish there were an easy answer I could give. When you stop analyzing and agonizing, what does your heart tell you? Seriously. Your intuition will get you closer to knowing than anything external to you. I'm not going to say that reconciling mind and intuition is an easy thing, but for questions of truth, there is no answer that can satisfy the mind. There is, however, knowing that will satisfy the spirit. And that will bring the peace that I think is what you're really looking for. I mean, if truth is, as you speculate, the fundamental and inviolable nature of spirit/god/universe/etc., we're in no position to comment on it; we're inside the fishbowl, so how can we explain what's going on in the room? All we have to go on is the intuition that says it's okay, just like your own suffering is okay. We can come up with lots of answers to the question, but only that assurance from spirit answers questioning.

[Uplift]

Interesting answers. So true or false, is there an unlimited being? If the answer is true, then reconciling the mind (which seems so almighty to humanity), which is a feeble, speck within a speck within a speck... and so on, compared to the infinite unlimited, is ludicrously simple. Otherwise if there is no unlimited being, it comes down to individual against individual. Yet, remove all the individuals, until only the source, no thing, is left, and the unchanging, untouchable, unlimited state is all there... is. So, again, why? Jesus meets a prostitute, or lepers or the blind etc, and instantly heals and forgives. No horrendous repaying some supposed human ideal of karma, no aligning chakras, no perfecting chants, no complex meditations, no judgement, just blunt simplicity. Buddha despises suffering, in even the smallest insect, yet someone invented and sold the law of karma, suffering to repay misconduct, eye for an eye (sounds a bit Roman Catholic). So, as in many teachings, is our true nature oneness, are we really the Spirit. If yes, nothing is beyond us, nothing. So understanding and answering my question is simple. My heart says don't accept half truths. There is either no limits, or there isn't . No limits means there is a true answer that satisfies all.

[Lallymac]

I believe the real truth lies outside of societal/cultural conditionings about what is good/bad right/wrong. I personally struggle with concept of karma as payback for past wrongs or the Christian concept of sin and punishment. How do they fit with Free Will and Choice? If we 'chose' to enter into a life at birth (which I believe we do) that is limited in some way through poverty, illness, abuse etc, then is it not possible that the soul, coming from a level of enlightment, might chose such a physical life to experience deeper levels of humilty, say, or compassion or trust?
The intelligence of creation resides within every living thing (that includes us). To understand 'truth' fully we need to enter into the field of creative intelligence and view life from a far greater perspective than the individuals we physically represent.
Lallymac

[ethereal]

Dr. Hawkins explain karma very well in this podcast:
David Hawkins, M.D.Ph.D. Beyond the Ordinary Dot Net
March 8th, 2005 : Karma

If Karma is too hard to reconcile, just use "level of consciousness" instead, they pretty much mean the same thing. With every "sin" you make, you lower your consciousness level, with every positive choice you make, you raise it. Your choices and experiences and perceptions reflect the level of consciousness you are currently at (karma).

[AndyMartin]

Originally Posted by Uplift

Interesting answers. So true or false, is there an unlimited being?

If there is unlimited being, then can you be separate from that?

If you can exist separate from the infinite, then we are also separated from it; why would our opinion be more reliable than your experience?

If you cannot exist separate from the infinite, then then answer is in you; why would our opinion be more reliable than your own experience?

I understand your question, Uplift; I've been through that mode of questioning. And I strongly agree with your intuition not to accept half-truths. The problem is, all the mind can do is poke holes--it cannot synthesize an infinite whole from an infinite number of pieces. So no explanation will ever be satisfactory, not from me, not from Jesus or Buddha himself. All any of us can do is tell you a story of our own experience, or that we've heard from someone else. Can that ever be whole truth for you? Truth can only be validated by experience, so find the answer in your experience; and if it's not there, find the experience with the answer. Then use that as the springboard for the next big question...because it's waiting just around the corner.

[Uplift]

Anyone who has had children knows beyond doubt that our most basic instincts are to avoid pain and discomfort. Babies won't hesitate to voice disapproval at experience of either. If a parent sees it's baby reaching for a fire, and allows it to be scarred for life, would we applaud the brilliant teaching methods? Or would our every fibre, our common sense, realise the inaptitude and stupidity of the parent. I expect more, much, much, much, more of anyone, or anything, claiming to be the ultimate, unlimited being. If you spout about unlimitness and knowing, demo please! Oh yeh, people come up with incredible explanations of all types. I mean Hitler managed to explain why it was necessary to incinerate people, and a whole country of idiots blindly bought it, or were to scared to do anything about it. The British smugly explain away the ongoing attrocities of colonialism, and the benefactors shrug, and get on with their lives. Science mocks other cultures attempts at explaining creation as primitive, then arrogantly babbles about a mysterious, exploding cloud. 'And where did this ultra 'cloud' come from?' You might as well ask a five year old, at least you'll get the truth, you know, 'we wouldn't have the slightest clue.' 'Don't worry about the details, you wouldn't understand anyway, trust us we know, we are scientists for God sake! ' So I honestly appreciate your time and efforts, honestly, but I have to ask again, why!!! Because I don't get it, and I don't buy it.

[ethereal]

Be like Steve and be adept in switching beliefs / subjective reality lenses. There is no way you'll "get it" through using the mind, it is something that must be believed and experienced...

If it makes you happier to believe your current beliefs, then stick with it. All we're doing is suggesting alternatives, since you seem to be troubled with your current belief system

[Uplift]

I would love to experience a world without suffering. Truth says at the moment it exists. An unlimited being should have no limits. So a world without suffering is possible. I have tried to ignore it and explain it away, but I would be lying to myself if I said I was comfortable with it. I mean if anyone of us had the power to fix all things, make unbelievable happiness (how does it go, 'eyes have not seen, nor ears heard'), wouldn't we use it?

[ethereal]

A world without suffering is possible, but it is not what our collective consciousness has chosen. Yes, people have chosen (and is still choosing) suffering, consciously or unconsciously.

All these viewpoints are from the point of view of the ego-self and not the Self, i.e. all the suffering we see is only a distorted slice of reality, not true Reality. That is why the enlightened sages all say to wake up from this dream, it is all an illusion, there is no need to save the world, all you need to do is wake up. The world we perceive through our ego-self is not Reality, so we're getting upset and angry and sorrowful over a non-existent reality created in our minds. Once you wake up, then you can help the other characters in the dream wake up as well. But going around in the dream trying to fix the dream isn't gonna help much.

Your depiction of God is like some father figure looking over all of us and watching his children suffer, and of course if that were true we'd also wonder why He doesn't step in and help us. Instead, I suggest looking at God and Divinity as an everpresent electromagnetic field that supports and creates everything, i.e. All That Is. There is no separation, because that implies duality and Reality is nondual. It is impersonal and allows full freedom to create whatever it wants. In our particular universe, He has created a universe where man/ego can choose to create their own "reality", i.e. have part of God experience what being God is like. Thus, we have free will to create and experience what we want, and universal rules like karma and Law of Attraction help teach us these lessons.

In fact, God does not know what suffering is; it creates all possibilities and experiences everything with infinite love. Suffering are images and words and thoughts and emotions that the ego learned to project onto what it believes are undesireable things. In Reality, there is no such thing as desirable or undesireable, good or bad, etc. These are all judgments made by the mind, and thus chosen by us to experience. We project meaning onto everything and assume that's the way it is, when in fact there is no meaning to anything, existence is its only meaning. We look at garbage as trash, but God looks at garbage as perfect garbage that once used to be useful but has now been discarded and will soon be recycled into the earth as fertilizer for nature. We look at starving children and see pain and sorrow, but God looks at it as souls choosing to incarnate into a life full of suffering in order to experience what pain is like in order so that it will not inflict that pain onto other beings in the future. In everything there is love, even in suffering.

Thus, we do not need to save the world we just do what we can out of compassion and let Divine Will guide us. Us trying to comprehend God is like a jigsaw puzzle piece trying to see what the whole picture is like. Just play your part and trust that everything works correctly and there is a Divine Plan that operates the world. Work to raise your level of consciousness and undo all the negatively-oriented thought patterns and perceptions we all have, unconsciously running in the back of our minds. If you really want, seek enlightenment and you will find and understand the Truth you've been searching for.

[Uplift]

God doesn't, or can't, can't, know what suffering is? I know heaps of people that know what suffering is. Why can't God be unlimited, when all of these sages claim that God is? I'll simplify the whole thing. This is the truth. I wan't enlightenment. I want to be awake. I honestly have to say that after years of looking, I don't know God backwards. In fact I honestly have to say that I don't know for sure if I know much about God at all. I have had impressions and, experiences and I think, and hope that God is what we call nothing, God is before anything, during anything, after anything. I hope that we are all God, greater and more incredible than anything, or any idea, or creation. I look out into space, and I haven't got a clue where it starts or ends. I look at a speck, and I don't know whats inside it, and inside that and so on. I don't know for certain how many dimensions there are, or if there are really any at all. What I know for sure, is that I ask sincerely, is there anyone that can truthfully say they are awake, as you put it, know all these things, and most importantly wake everyone up. All I know is that if I saw my friends, or family, or anyone for that matter, dreaming, and being in distress, and I truly knew everything, that is how to wake them up, and inspire them, or convince them, or show them, or whatever them, how to have beautiful dreams, how to feel unlimited bliss, I would do it. Because either, they are me, or a part of me, or they aren't. Or would I judge them, weigh up if they deserved forgiveness, if that had payed debts or worked hard enough, ie, the opposite of God, or so the sages tell us. So sorry if I offend you, but I ask again, is there anyone capable of that, anyone truthfully unlimited, because I would hate to think it's not possible.

[ethereal]

They're already out there right now. The teachings of enlightenment are available for free over the internet, there are around 20+ calibrated enlightened people on the planet, some of them are in reclusive hiding but contributing their spiritual energy towards lifting the collective consciousness, others are in public teaching what they know even though they are not required to:

Bodhisattva - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jesus's teachings in the New Testament are pretty well-known, same with Buddhism, the Vedas and Bhagavad Gita, the Koran, etc. This is all out there for everyone to choose to follow, and having the intention to desire enlightenment or mankind's highest good will eventually align them with that destiny. However, it should be pretty obvious to you that not all people are interested, some statistic says that only 1 in 1 million people would say that their life goal is enlightenment; many religious people are not spiritual at all, but rather use religion as a way to prop up their ego or as a shortcut to salvation.

You seem to want God to fix everything and make Earth a paradise. But that's forcing it on people who, apparently, aren't even very interested or want it that much. God never forces, He is always available as an option for people to choose, now how many choose God over riches, fame, success? Over their very life and existence? People only cry out to God when they are suffering and need help, do they ever praise God or worship him when they are happy and successful? To me it seems like they are worshipping happiness and success rather than God. God doesn't really care, He loves them anyway no matter what they choose but they get what they ask for (choose), nothing more and nothing less

You want to believe God is unlimited, yet you also want to limit his infiniteness by imposing what God "should" do based on our ego/mind's standards and what we believe is "right". Don't think that's very fair it's like a tree demanding that the forest ought to stop blocking the sunlight for it.

In fact, God loves everyone so much that even when someone makes mistakes, he allows them to repent through karma, and that is why there is suffering at all, it is meant to teach them that "as you sow, so shall you reap". That's all suffering is. That's pretty fair, don't you think? Once souls have learned enough lessons to become as Godly as possible (unconditionally loving, compassionate, selfless, etc.), then they become enlightened, are released from karma and reincarnation, and suffering ceases. Do you think most of us have learned our lessons, though? Or are you gonna stick with, "if God is infinite He'll just let me have what I want without earning it"

I admire your honorable intentions, but instead of directing your anger and sorrow at God, direct it at the real culprit, which is man's ego/mind. David Hawkins explained it very well, the ego is basically the vestiges of the animal instincts that we evolved from, the baser instincts of survival at all costs. All human suffering can be explained by mankind's animal instincts destroying itself. Until man collectively chooses God and Truth and Love over the ego, there will always be suffering.

I'll suggest that you do what Steve did in one of his subjective reality blog posts, I forget which: intend that God/the universe show you the answer to your questions, intend that He show you Truth and Reality, without any judgment or desire or expectation for what it "should" be like. Let it go, and wait. Perhaps you'll find what you're looking for. I am done posting in this thread, good luck on your search

edit: David Hawkins, M.D.Ph.D. Beyond the Ordinary Dot Net
December 9th, 2003: viewpoint on the suffering of the world, about 35:00 in
- listen to an enlightened being speak on the subject

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by Uplift

Would you, if you were totally unlimited, totally capable of anything (like the supreme whatever), choose pain and suffering as the ultimate teaching method?

If that was the only way to pull me out of my self-induced denial, yes.

Originally Posted by Uplift

Try and tell a sixth month old child being tortured that it just needs to align or adjust it's thinking, and that it is learning an awesome incredible lesson, that the whole thing isnt real.

The child is a reflection of you. You don't have to adjust it's thinking you have to adjust yours. When the abused child comes into your awareness, what is your internal experience of that moment? There is something there for you to see but it is covered by your judgment of the moment as being wrong.

Underneath that wrongness, there is more to see.

[Uplift]

This unlimited seems to have heaps of limits (according to the mind)! 'Only way!' The unlimited has unlimited ways, now, now, instantly! God help abused children, women and men!

[Kiba]

God is nothing but the truth, only the whole truth and love.

Since God is so good, so therefore every action of God is good regardless of what it might seem to us humans. There are no limit to the unlimited power of God.

Uplift just define the problem of evil in a world that have an unlimited and good god.

As others said, God choose to give us free will and does not wish to forces choices upon us. By doing this , he doesn't force humans to be good if they don't want to. Slavery is one of the worse imaginable state, so that is why he doesn't do it.

God is an extreme end of the specturm, he is good and cannot lies. The world too doesn't lie. The deceptions come from humans deceving themsleves and others into falsehood. This is where the evil are.

No matter how horrible the world seem, no matter how bad your life is, God is alway completely 100% good. There is no other way around. There is a reason God do this and that.


So to sum it up, good are truth, and evil are falsehood. And God can't and doesn't do evil no matter how horrible the world seem to us humans. Beside, we will never completely or fully understand the vast universe that god create.


As an interesting question, can God make an object that even god cannot destory and if so, why? (I know the answer)

[Uplift]

So many discrepancies in these answers. God is either ALL, you know ALL equal, loving, knowing, powerfull, capable, everythinging, or God isn't. Contrast is duality, instantly not God. Again if God can't understand, in the words of all the so called sages, 'indescribable bliss' without experiencing suffering, limits exist, instantly not God. Are we also God? If so, if we experience anything other than 100% indescribable bliss, then it is God experiencing. So why wouldn't God end all suffering, or want to? How can it be accepted?
Imagine this, it's ludicrous. God decides to end all suffering, to impart indescribable bliss, wholeness, beyond our wildest imagination. Just ask, it's instant, it's free, like a mother's love for a newborn magnified by infinity. No price. Hang on the, educated say it's impossible, not that easy, and are arguing with God, because well, you know, God isn't actually that capable. Then they go and search for the unlimited, almighty God. In fact they know him very well...sort of, maybe, possibly.

[Dharma]

On edit - removed my post since uplift has not taken anyone's answers or suggestions to heart (two pages worth so far!). I'm wasting my time.

[Uplift]

God is nothing. God makes things possible, including duality. It has nothing to do with them being necessary for God to exist. People think nothing is inferior. Remove everything, including thought, any trace of the human idea, only God is left. That much I am sure of. All about that nothing, I dont know much. The witness bit I get. Bliss that I want, I have felt. How it happened on several occasions in my life, I wouldn't really know, because I am unable to repeat it at will. I also know the truth is important. God wants truth. The truth is, people are in pain. The truth is I want answers to things I haven't got a clue about. I also know this about God, don't lie, try not to, because you cant fool yourself. Ill ask again, is anyone without limits, omni everything, capable of anything, that will answer my questions and end suffering. The truth is, right or wrong, I am disgusted at the comments concerning suffering children. The coldness disgusts me.

[Kiba]

Originally Posted by Uplift

God is nothing. God makes things possible, including duality. It has nothing to do with them being necessary for God to exist. People think nothing is inferior. Remove everything, including thought, any trace of the human idea, only God is left. That much I am sure of. All about that nothing, I dont know much. The witness bit I get. Bliss that I want, I have felt. How it happened on several occasions in my life, I wouldn't really know, because I am unable to repeat it at will. I also know the truth is important. God wants truth. The truth is, people are in pain. The truth is I want answers to things I haven't got a clue about. I also know this about God, don't lie, try not to, because you cant fool yourself. Ill ask again, is anyone without limits, omni everything, capable of anything, that will answer my questions and end suffering. The truth is, right or wrong, I am disgusted at the comments concerning suffering children. The coldness disgusts me.

You're rambling, it is hard to understand you.

God want truth doesn't make sense to me. God IS truth.

If god intervenue in our affairs, we're be robots, literally robots in the sense that we no longer have free will. Is that what you want?

What part of "God love us so much that he give us free will" agurment you don't agree with?

[Uplift]

Kiba, look at my question? It's so simple. This is not mean't to offend. Are you unlimited, omni everything, indescribable bliss, and able to end suffering? Yes or no? The truth is I'm either not, or I don't feel like I am. I would be rambling if I said otherwise.

[Angela]

Uplift, your favorite question reminds me of my nephew's:

"why is my birthday not in the ocean?"

and when I am left speechless by that question, he persists:

"PROVE it!"

[Uplift]

What if you and everyone else told your nephew that all birthdays are in oceans, and he asked his question. If I saw my question from someone else, I wouldn't answer unless I truthfully could.

[annie]

Originally Posted by Uplift

From what I can grasp, Truth is, or must be the basic make up and unbreakable law of spirit, God, Supreme Being or whatever we call the source and fabric of anything. So this question plagues me. If there is this all loving, all equal, all knowing, supreme whatever, consisting of, or motivated by truth, and it is truly unlimited as numerous teachings expouse, why are some children born as drug addicts, toys for paedophiles, starving, tortured, etc, etc. Why the Tibetans, Indigenous Peoples (anyone remember them)? Does anyone really believe it is their choice, so that they can learn, if they are lucky? Would you, if you were totally unlimited, totally capable of anything (like the supreme whatever), choose pain and suffering as the ultimate teaching method? Try and tell a sixth month old child being tortured that it just needs to align or adjust it's thinking, and that it is learning an awesome incredible lesson, that the whole thing isnt real. If that is the best that God or whatever can do, then the phrase 'God help us' is useless. If the Supreme Being has limits, where is the truth? If there is no truth, the whole thing falls apart, dog eat dog. So can anyone truthfully give a good answer?

Not everyone on this board believes the confusing stuff that I just read in this thread.

I suppose you wonder why God allows all of the suffering in the world? Why is it that even the innocent or those who are trying to do good are subjected to pain, sickness, tragedy, and death?

Here's what I think is TRUTH.....

God has a plan for your life and that He knows and understands you. As part of that plan, you live on this earth and are subject to natural and physical laws. You are also subject to the consequences and the results of choices made by you and by others. Yet no matter what happens, you are a child of God and He loves you. He knows, and wants you to know, that your time on this earth is but a small part of your eternal life. God takes no pleasure in your suffering but He knows that difficulties, regardless of their cause, can bring His children closer to Him and can make them stronger.



One of the greatest things God has given us is the ability and power to make choices.

You can choose what is good, or you can choose what is not-so-good. Whatever your choice, you also choose the consequences of your choices. Consequences always come—sometimes immediately, and sometimes later. Choosing good eventually leads to happiness. Wrong choices eventually lead to unhappiness.

The choices you make affect not only yourself, but others as well. You may benefit from someone’s good choice, and someone may suffer from a bad choice that you make.

God respects your freedom to choose. He will never force anyone to choose good, nor will He stop anyone from making wrong choices. He knows that by making choices and experiencing their consequences, you learn the difference between good and evil. As you learn to choose good, you find greater happiness.

With all that said, to specifically reply to something you wrote in your opening post....."Try and tell a sixth month old child being tortured that it just needs to align or adjust it's thinking, and that it is learning an awesome incredible lesson". I can't relate to this comment....I come more from the paradigm that YEAH! bad things happen to good people and God doesn't interfere because it is part of a test to see how we will live this existence.

Could we have done something prior to coming to this earth to dictate our position in this life? I think it's really possible and yet I don't have an answer there. Having done a bunch of research on people that are really involved in channeling, I have read way too much to believe otherwise that FREE WILL if at the center of this existence. Even God, as SUPREME as HE is folllows the Law of the Universe of it's a Universe of confusion (and I believe it's a Universe of Order)

What are your thoughts about this?

[Mark Lapierre]

Originally Posted by Uplift

God wants truth.

How do you know what God wants?

[Uplift]

Thats why I ask. Is there anyone that is omni everything, capable of anything, capable of answering my question and ending suffering? It's easy. Yes, or, no? If the answer is no, why answer? Which part has to answer what it doesn't know, and why? How hard is it to say no and thus offer no answer?

[Uplift]

Sorry, I left one part out. Of course if we have no answers, I'll take it that the saints and sages, enlightened and aligned, chinnells and channells, swimis and swamis, popes and priests... in fact the whole show, are missing in action. You know, 'normally I can and would lift 10,000lbs mate, but the old back's playing up today. Plus I'll be away for a few years on business, but don't worry I'll get to it eventually'.

[Mark Lapierre]

Originally Posted by Uplift

Is there anyone that is omni everything, capable of anything, capable of answering my question and ending suffering?

No.

Originally Posted by Uplift

If the answer is no, why answer?

Because you asked.

Originally Posted by Uplift

Which part has to answer what it doesn't know, and why?How hard is it to say no and thus offer no answer?

Now you've lost me. Could you rephrase these two questions?

Originally Posted by Uplift

I'll take it that the saints and sages, enlightened and aligned, chinnells and channells, swimis and swamis, popes and priests... in fact the whole show, are missing in action.

Have you asked any of these people these questions? I'm sure they're not on this forum, but they do exist. And you won't like their answers, and would most likely shoot them down as you have all who've responded to you here.