Truth?

[Uplift]

See, why not just say no, and leave it at that. What else have I asked for? How do you know who I've asked? Which part of you feels the need to answer? Yes, I will expect someone claiming the things I ask, to back up talk. I think it's called the truth. Imagine this. It comes around that stories and people claim that all humans are part of a being that can always, no matter what, jump 500 feet high. Their words, stories and assertions. That it is our true reality to jump 500 feet high, and we should strive for it, it's just that we are unaware that we can. Some people claim they can do it, and that they can show others how to do it. Everywhere, no one is actually doing it, but they are searching for ways to do it. So someone, unable to jump 500 feet high, but wanting to jump 5oo feet high asks, 'can any one , always, no matter what, jump 500 feet high, show me people they have taught to jump 500 foot high, and teach everyone to jump 500 foot high?' The answers are everything but a 500 foot high jump. People see the question, and knowing full well they are unable to jump anywhere near 500 foot high, start answering. Always is not always, no matter what is kind of no matter what. They know someone who can, but doesn't need to, or is in hiding. They shoot themselves down. Of course the asker will want some proof, thats all.

[jeff-wang]

Originally Posted by Uplift

why are some children born as drug addicts, toys for paedophiles, starving, tortured, etc, etc. Why the Tibetans, Indigenous Peoples (anyone remember them)? Does anyone really believe it is their choice, so that they can learn, if they are lucky? Would you, if you were totally unlimited, totally capable of anything (like the supreme whatever), choose pain and suffering as the ultimate teaching method? Try and tell a sixth month old child being tortured that it just needs to align or adjust it's thinking, and that it is learning an awesome incredible lesson, that the whole thing isnt real. If that is the best that God or whatever can do, then the phrase 'God help us' is useless. If the Supreme Being has limits, where is the truth?

The truth is not so obvious,but we needn't to know it. Steve has given advices many times. If you read his 'life after death'(http://www.stevepavlina.com/articles...fter-death.htm) and listen to his podcast #013- Beyond Religion, you will find what you should do.

Steve said that you can just use some religions when doing sth while use other religions when doing another thing.

To me, I am always a dialectic materialist when dealing with objects while a subjective realitist when dealing with people. That's seems good for me

Deep down, I like dialectic materialism more, maybe because if being a materialism I take less responsibility. That's what I think.

[Mark Lapierre]

Why not just leave it at no? Because we've said no, in a few different forms, and you're unsatisfied with that answer.

I don't know who you've asked, which is why I asked if you had asked any of those knowledgeable people. You said they're missing in action. My question was intended to challenge that statement. If you have asked them, they're obviously not missing in action. And if you haven't, then perhaps you should.

Which part feels the need to answer? My curiosity. We can't currently provide you with an answer, as Andy said, we're inside the fishbowl. But we want to know what's going on in the room just as much as you do, so our answers are not only answers to you, but answers to ourselves. And they're just as much questions as they are answers.

Stories are all that we have, and some people believe the stories more strongly than others. It's up to you to decide your level of belief. No-one else can decide that for you.

So you can continue to ask your question, but only you can answer it in a way that you'll be happy with.

[Uplift]

Come on!!! If some one said to you give me all you have, down to your last cent, and I'll guarrantee that I will make you millions...I have millions myself and I've made others millions, in fact I can make anyone millions, would you just hand it all over, blindly? Or would you want to see some evidence? And if nothing but dodging the issue was all that could be provided as evidence, would you still blindly hand it over? Respect yourself! Demand Truth and at least you are aiming at the target, with a chance of hitting it. Aim at ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and chances are you'll hit that too. Regardless of the self appointed title or level of the person you are asking, demand and accept only truth. If they are on the level, there is no problem, its all good, only truth...and respect. My question is specific. If someone says to me, 'no I can't', or doesn't answer because they don't know the answer, I respect their honesty, and their respect for both of us. If someone doesn't like the fact that I wont swallow their unfounded claims, or am not interested in joining in their unrelated stories, that's their problem.

[Glass Joe]

Fish are the last ones to notice the water...

Uplift, if you ask people for their opinions and they take time out of their day to try to help you, then you should be respectful of their efforts, even if their particular answers didn't exactly fit for what you are looking for. Just say "Thanks. I'll consider that." and then move on.

I didn't read the whole thread, word-for-word, but did you already define "Truth"? It seems like you want your Truth to be simultaneously wrapped up into a neat conceptual package and also be all-encompassing and all-pervading, applying to every and all circumstances.

You have some great insights, and I mean that, but I think you are going about your search with the wrong mindset. It's probably better to be like Thomas Edison. He was grateful for every failure and dead-end he ran into because that just showed him what would not work and left him with only what would work. Personally, I think that it's great that you demand truth and won't settle for anything less. So perhaps every time someone tells you something about truth that doesn't fit your criteria of "Truth", just treat it as a sign that points you in the right direction. By moving beyond everything you come across that doesn't work or fit for you as "Truth", you will eventually find what will work and fit for you as "Truth".

"Discontent is the flame of the seeker."
-- Jiddu Krishnamurti

[Uplift]

I didn't ask for them. Like you said, you didn't read, just assumed. the truth is easy, yes or no.

[Erock]

So what do you really know dude? That's what it comes down to.

Do you know that 6 month old tortured babies feel pain? Do you know that others suffer? Do you know that they are even conscious? Do you know that god exists? Do you know that god is good or evil? Do you know whether the world exists when you're asleep? Do you know anything for sure?

The only thing you will ever know is that you are conscious. To know anything else is to suffer.

Erock

[Uplift]

'I just kind of expected yes or no', Uplift.

[Glass Joe]

Hehe... I was editing my previous post for the last few minutes and it didn't show your quick reply back to me until after I logged out.

You're right. I guess I said "ask for opinions" because I thought it was a better way of saying "demanding answers".

Maybe this will help or just make things more confusing, but here's the wikipedia article on Truth.

I think you are trying to apply one kind of truth ("Did you go to the movies, yes or no?") to the wrong kind of problem (existential).

[AndrewJ]

"why are some children born as drug addicts, toys for paedophiles, starving, tortured, etc, etc. Why the Tibetans, Indigenous Peoples (anyone remember them)? Does anyone really believe it is their choice, so that they can learn, if they are lucky? Would you, if you were totally unlimited, totally capable of anything (like the supreme whatever), choose pain and suffering as the ultimate teaching method? Try and tell a sixth month old child being tortured that it just needs to align or adjust it's thinking, and that it is learning an awesome incredible lesson, that the whole thing isnt real."

It is often said that this suffering is the result of man's separation from God

Each major religion has a different description of how this came about and how it is able to happen, so I suggest you look into some of them to find out what they say about it.

I'm sure Athiests have other types of answers for you but I don't know what they would be.

Andrew

[Mark Lapierre]

Wise words Glass Joe

Uplift, yes or no is fine when the question asked is clear, and can be answered in a way that's definite and requires no further explanation. You didn't initially ask only one question. You posed many. None were simple. As has been pointed out, your questions ask for an answer that can't be provided by anyone else.

You followed up with a clear question, but because it followed from a topic worthy of discussion, not just a single-syllable answer, that is why you got more than you requested.

This is a discussion forum dealing with a range of topics, some, such as this one, which are difficult to conceptualise. 'yes' or 'no' doesn't suffice in this situation.

You say to demand truth. Well, that's what I'm giving you, and I have no doubt that the others have done the same. But our truth, in this case, is not (and cannot) be the ultimate truth you're after, but the simpler truth of our own beliefs. Because when dealing with a question which we, as humans inside our proverbial fishbowl, can't find an objective truth for, all we can do is offer our opinion on what we think, or believe, the answer is. That's what I meant by 'stories are all we have'. Of course that's not all we have, but in the case of things we don't yet understand, that is all we have, and what we're offering you.

[Uplift]

I swear to God, on my life, soul whatever, this is true. A set of 'Ask and It Is Given' cards by Esther and Jerry Hicks that my wife ordered arrived this afternoon. My wife loves cards, tarot etc, so sure enough we were soon playing 'select a card'. This is the card my wife chose. 'But Whose Truth is the True Truth?' ; With enough attention to anything, the essense of what you have been giving thought to will eventually become a physical manifestation. And then as others give attention to it, they help it expand. In time this manifestation, whether wanted or not, is called Truth...Deliberate Creation is about deliberately choosing those experiences you make your Truths.
this is the card I chose. 'A Consistent Formula Gives Me Consistent Results' ; Like learning to understand the basics of mathematics and then having the successful experience of understanding the results of their applications, once you have the formula for understanding your world that is always consistent, it will yield consistent results to you.
I honestly, deeply, sincerely with my every drop of being want a world where everyone is unlimited, in indescribable bliss, with out suffering. A world where no child, person or thing will suffer, ever. I will not be swayed into seeking the world of karma, paybacks, levels, inequality and uncertainty. I ask because I have no doubt I will be answered, if I ask sincerely, truthfully. Imagine an unlimited world of indescribable bliss, where no one suffers. Where anyone who wants it can have it. I have learned that honesty, passion, focus, determination and discrimination are powerful tools that when combined, give unbelievable results, time and time again. If you want the same thing, aim with me, if you don't, I'm not remotely interested. I will never agree from my heart to let a defenseless child, person or animal suffer. That will never be my 'Law'. I will get my answer. Thankyou God for listening, thank you for your wisdom and clarity.

[ElizaJ]

A mystic friend of mine tells me that the existence of Planet Earth is nothing more than an experiment that is being conducted by the Supreme Being and that it will all come to an end sooner than anyone expects.

[ddgrooves]

There are many things you can do to find the answer for yourself. I personally found a way to get off my knees and take some action to transform the planet we live in in 3 simple ways.

1. I read the book Conversations with God - I find this to be appropriate to you since you seem to be disparaging why people would choose an experience like addiction or poverty. You can get it on Half.com or retail on Amazon.

2. God isn't Human. Therefore not limited to the concerns of human-ness. You making god human and things wrong is your problem. Focus on what you see is right - and give up judgement (aka Monkey chatter)

3. Live and let live. - There's your truth. If I were you I'd give up mass media for a month and find your truth since you seem to be buying into the fecal matter that the news feeds you and accepting it into your reality.

With love and compassion for you and the world.
Dawn

[Uplift]

I think its where we pour ourselves. If we insist on being experts in the law of karma, we will be. Karma will be. If we insist on having indescribable bliss, without suffering, it will be. How can we choose our polititions that allow children to be homeless? Thats what people do. But then, if even spiritual people adopt a doctrine that promotes or explains it, it's understandable. Priests molest kids. I can't stand for it. Look, on a totally separate thing, I humbly apologise to all the people who put their words on this forum if I offend or offended them. But I'm serious. It's serious. To say God doesn't care? Jesus's and Buddhas and the like stood out because their caring defied our beliefs. The humble Indian Cow Girls were God's favourites. Buddha devoted his whole exsistance to not harming. Jesus died to end suffering. If we really, truly wanted it, we could have a totally different state of exsistance. But if we can't even imagine it? I think I've blabbered more than enough. I truly thank you all for putting up with me. I'm realising I have to keep aiming, and all this has given me renewed vigour in my meditations, visualisations and so on, and it's up to me to keep aiming, carefully.

[Angela]

The Humble Indian Cow Girls are my favorites, too!

[Uplift]

A world full of people like you is heaven. Imagine it.

[Uplift]

It feels nice thinking stuff like that, thanks. I gotta go, nice thing to have in my head.

[Andrew Brunelle]

We have the capacity to all live a life of bliss, of great joy, but it is not something that we will experience in our lifetimes. God allows suffering because suffering is necessary. If there was no suffering, how could we experience bliss? There has to be two ends of the spectrum. You can't just have joy or it becomes normal, it becomes nothing spectacular. And as human nature goes, we would soon want more than bilss, more than joy, so there was a quote that went something like this:

"The deeper sorrow can carve into your being, the more joy you can contain."

So, I guess it is more of a personal thing. If you realize that a state of eternal bliss is something that would make things mundane and uniform, which would not be a good place to live, too boring. It's overcoming suffering, into bliss, the journey there, that makes things more blissful. Keep that in mind.

[Rocket Surgery]

Originally Posted by Uplift

This is a hard question to ask, or topic to discuss in a positive slant. From what I can grasp, Truth is, or must be the basic make up and unbreakable law of spirit, God, Supreme Being or whatever we call the source and fabric of anything. So this question plagues me. If there is this all loving, all equal, all knowing, supreme whatever, consisting of, or motivated by truth, and it is truly unlimited as numerous teachings expouse, why are some children born as drug addicts, toys for paedophiles, starving, tortured, etc, etc. Why the Tibetans, Indigenous Peoples (anyone remember them)? Does anyone really believe it is their choice, so that they can learn, if they are lucky? Would you, if you were totally unlimited, totally capable of anything (like the supreme whatever), choose pain and suffering as the ultimate teaching method? Try and tell a sixth month old child being tortured that it just needs to align or adjust it's thinking, and that it is learning an awesome incredible lesson, that the whole thing isnt real. If that is the best that God or whatever can do, then the phrase 'God help us' is useless. If the Supreme Being has limits, where is the truth? If there is no truth, the whole thing falls apart, dog eat dog. So can anyone truthfully give a good answer?

I've just finished reading this entire thread, and you have modified your question, Uplift, since its first posting, hence my reposting of it here.

First, let me say that, having read all of your responses in this thread that it is quite clear that your difficulty in wrapping your mind around some of this philosophy is directly linked to your being a parent. You are willing to accept the All Are God concept insofar as adults are concerned, but you conveniently forget about it when children enter the picture.

Therein the problem lies. If you are able to filter out the Illusion of Separation when looking at other people and accepting that they are, in fact, another aspect of yourself, then you MUST also do the same with all of the children whose cause you so vehemently champion.

IF you are ever able to do this -- and from what I read of your words, that's a very big "if," then you must accept that, minus our earth suits with their various shapes, sizes, colors, and relative wear and tear (age), then you have to accept that we are ALL similar aspects, or Points of Experience (POE's) of God, incarnated here on Earth in Spacetime to pursue a personal course of study along our own unique pathway towards enlightenment.

You cannot accept godhood for only the adults, you see. The kids are just as much God as are you and I and all the posters on this board. They have just as much invested in this duality as everyone else, and for the most part, just as much CHOICE.

However, just because one accepts that every soul -- be they in an adult body or a child's body -- for the most part chooses their own path, does not mean that one cannot be overwhelmed or overcome by the choices made by other souls once here on the playing field.

As a parent, it's quite understandable that you give a greater weight to the suffering of a child than to an adult, but I say that both are of equal weight. If you are to accept these teachings, you must see through the entire illusion, not just the parts that your ego can handle. For what you may perceive to be a suffering child, may well be a reincarnation of the very pedophiles you loathe, placing himself in a similar situation; turning the tables upon himself in an effort to learn EMPATHY for children in the future.

Perhaps it's a milder form of suffering. A soul reincarnates into a family whose gene pool pretty much guarantees she'll be fat and ugly. What we human egos see is someone constantly being picked on her entire childhood, perhaps her entire life. But what that soul has learned is EMPATHY for others who suffer similar experiences by being on the receiving end of it herself. This may have been because the soul had caused such suffering in others herself in previous lives, or it may even be a particularly brave soul who wishes to imprint that particular empathy onto her personality so as to avoid such behavior in future lives.

So, in a nutshell, that is why the suffering exists and continues to do so. However, this does in no way mean that we should turn a blind eye towards such suffering. It is all a subconscious dance we perform in the celebration of choice, free will, and experience. The child is unaware of its soul's purpose, and this is the suffering you cannot abide. Nor can I. Certainly, any behavior that causes suffering in others is negative, and we should make every attempt to steer our fellow POE's towards more POSITIVE behaviors.

The world you dream of that is ALL BLISS. ALL THE TIME. is a grand dream, indeed, and I believe we're on the path towards such a place. But it will probably not happen in our particular lifetimes, and so we have to make the best of the world we currently have to work with.

Duality and Spacetime exist because God wanted to experience things in relative "slow motion" perhaps to better understand how I-M works Himself.

There probably are a few worlds in the Universe that are the utopias you describe. The Universe is not this big for no reason, you know. I believe it's as big as it is so that OUR school, Earth, can be isolated from all the other schools in order for us to better focus on our particular course of study. Clearly, that course of study is NOT the Study of Bliss.

But if you want LESS SUFFERING in your reality, THINK about it LESS.
To think "No more suffering" only invites more of it because you're still thinking about suffering, just in different terms. Instead, think about a state of being where this is no suffering, give it a name that makes sense in your mind, and think about HAVING MORE OF THAT.

If the earth finally put an end to all suffering, and asked you to pick a new name for the planet, what would you call it? Shangri-La? Valhalla? How about Maui? Whatever works for you. Just visualize such a planet in your mind every day, and ask the Universe to make the Earth into Maui (or whatever), and believe it will actually come into being some day. Just understand that every thought you have centered around "suffering" will serve to counter your positive world view, and you will be like eternally pushing a boulder up a hill. In other words, KEEP YOUR THOUGHTS POSITIVE, and you will begin to actually see LESS suffering in the world.

Thanks for your thread!

~ RS

[Uplift]

I never said that adult suffering is not as important as childrens, you wrongly assume that. As a parent, I trust my belief that it is adults who shape and nurture children, and that children need protection (wanted, jumbo jet pilot, only newborns need apply...or 'hey it's your choice to reincarnate kid, breastfeed yourself'). I also enjoy being a parent, and can vouch that kids love being kids when they are looked after properly, so I am happy to have it as my aim. Your doubts are your choice. Philosophy doesn't interest me. I dont have to accept anything, including reincarnation and karma. I believe it is an idiotic system of teaching at best, a bit like self flagellation... have fun, but no thanks. I believe we are all one, so don't want anyone to suffer. It is a grand dream, I love 'em. Again, no thanks, not interested in dud dreams. I've learn't that being able to imagine, believe, conceive, focus, and create are essential if something is to happen. If you can't, or don't want to, you are right, it probably won't. I also believe that honestly taking stock of where you are and what you are aiming at, helps hit your chosen target. Thanks for helping me clarify my dream.

[Rocket Surgery]

Originally Posted by Uplift

Philosophy doesn't interest me. I dont have to accept anything, including reincarnation and karma. I believe it is an idiotic system of teaching at best, a bit like self flagellation... have fun, but no thanks.

Then, with all due respect, why are you posting in a forum that primarily discusses spiritual philosophy? Several people have spent many HOURS of collective time trying to clarify the concepts of reincarnation and karma in reference to your question regarding suffering, and you respond by insulting them.

Nobody here give's a rat's behind whether or not you accept or reject metaphysical concepts of reality. But you SEEMED sincere in your query about how "God can allow all the suffering," etc. We gave you a very good and logical answer that explains exactly how -- in our belief system -- and you continue to blather on incoherently like a mental patient. I suspect your post is more about stirring things up than it is about seeking answers, and I'll be refraining from responding to your posts in the future.

~ RS

[Kiba]

Originally Posted by Uplift

I never said that adult suffering is not as important as childrens, you wrongly assume that. As a parent, I trust my belief that it is adults who shape and nurture children, and that children need protection (wanted, jumbo jet pilot, only newborns need apply...or 'hey it's your choice to reincarnate kid, breastfeed yourself'). I also enjoy being a parent, and can vouch that kids love being kids when they are looked after properly, so I am happy to have it as my aim. Your doubts are your choice. Philosophy doesn't interest me. I dont have to accept anything, including reincarnation and karma. I believe it is an idiotic system of teaching at best, a bit like self flagellation... have fun, but no thanks. I believe we are all one, so don't want anyone to suffer. It is a grand dream, I love 'em. Again, no thanks, not interested in dud dreams. I've learn't that being able to imagine, believe, conceive, focus, and create are essential if something is to happen. If you can't, or don't want to, you are right, it probably won't. I also believe that honestly taking stock of where you are and what you are aiming at, helps hit your chosen target. Thanks for helping me clarify my dream.

Umm this is philosophy. You're asking philosophical questions.

It seem that you do not accept any answers because you don't like the answers. However, this is the answers each of us found acceptable to us.

In any case, God will not end suffering because he love us so much, so it is no to your question.. Even though god can end suffering, god will not do so. I hope that will answer your question.

[Uplift]

Philosophy is a western concept, governed by an unclear, biased set of western constraints and guidelines. The heading said 'Spirituality, Consciousness, and Awareness'. If the basis of our Spirituality is an all encompassing being, in a state of unending, unchanging, unlimited bliss, all equal, all knowing, all powerful, infinite, unlimited, why is it impossible to conceive a world of unlimited bliss? Or a being that can make such a thing possible instantly. Why is it so threatening, and wrong for me to not buy into suffering and limits, and so right and spiritual and necessary for the actions of paedophiles, rapists, murderers and so on? I asked my question because I am sincere about wanting a world full of bliss, and thus free of suffering. Spirituality can be compared to Christianity. Christianity is based on Christ. Christ says I and the Father are One. Harm no-one. Christ points out that anything is possible... anything, with faith, and performs countless miracles as demonstrations. Different sects exsist to study Christ and his teachings. If I ask Christians, 'Why do people suffer, why are kids abused, even by some priests? Do you know anyone that can make a daffodil seed grow in the ocean, after they have walked across it', or that can make a world of unlimited bliss with no suffering', the answers are similar to the answers in this thread. I know, I've done it. If I then say 'lets just all pray to Christ and it will be done, its great, I feel great about it, no more suffering, its easy, we just have to all pray for exactly what we want, and be clear and careful', the answers will be the same as this thread. So my answer is clear, God has answered me. Why suffering? Because people love it, even more than they care for the people who oppose it, in fact they insist on it. So again, I'm not remotely interested in suffering, I'm aiming in the opposite direction.

[Kiba]

Originally Posted by Uplift

Philosophy is a western concept, governed by an unclear, biased set of western constraints and guidelines. The heading said 'Spirituality, Consciousness, and Awareness'. If the basis of our Spirituality is an all encompassing being, in a state of unending, unchanging, unlimited bliss, all equal, all knowing, all powerful, infinite, unlimited, why is it impossible to conceive a world of unlimited bliss? Or a being that can make such a thing possible instantly. Why is it so threatening, and wrong for me to not buy into suffering and limits, and so right and spiritual and necessary for the actions of paedophiles, rapists, murderers and so on? I asked my question because I am sincere about wanting a world full of bliss, and thus free of suffering. Spirituality can be compared to Christianity. Christianity is based on Christ. Christ says I and the Father are One. Harm no-one. Christ points out that anything is possible... anything, with faith, and performs countless miracles as demonstrations. Different sects exsist to study Christ and his teachings. If I ask Christians, 'Why do people suffer, why are kids abused, even by some priests? Do you know anyone that can make a daffodil seed grow in the ocean, after they have walked across it', or that can make a world of unlimited bliss with no suffering', the answers are similar to the answers in this thread. I know, I've done it. If I then say 'lets just all pray to Christ and it will be done, its great, I feel great about it, no more suffering, its easy, we just have to all pray for exactly what we want, and be clear and careful', the answers will be the same as this thread. So my answer is clear, God has answered me. Why suffering? Because people love it, even more than they care for the people who oppose it, in fact they insist on it. So again, I'm not remotely interested in suffering, I'm aiming in the opposite direction.

I, too not remotely interested in suffering. But this is the choice that we humans make and we will suffer for it.

As long, we choose to do injustice, we will suffer. It is simply a reality of the world. God will not do it for us. He give us so much love as to let us choose our fate. And this is our choice.


Philosophy is not "unclean", nor "restrained", or "biased", or a western idea, it is a subject. There are western philosophy, Eastern philosophy, philosophy of science, and more. To say such things is to disregard every example of philosophy in the 4 corners of the world that ever exist.

[Uplift]

The Greeks invented the term philosophy. Philosophy has rules that even philosophers are unclear about, and argue about. It is basically mental gymnastics. Spirit, or God is before philosophy, and exsists without the notion of phlilosophy. If our reality is spirit, unlimited bliss, which exsists before anything else, including karma and suffering, why choose immersion in the study of, and attatchment to the philosophy and conception of karma and suffering. Why not saturate in bliss, our one truth. I see it as that classic question, who am I? Who is witnessing this. The choice is then to direct inwards to truth, letting go of the thought, or direct outwards to the thought, the mind, giving it exsistance and reality. If everyone of us could stop thinking right now, expanding to whats behind everything, then it is unchanging oneness. If from that point we choose to express truth, unending bliss, we experience our own image, or any image we choose. I am aiming, (trying to aim) at truth, unlimited bliss.

[Michael Chui]

No, the term philosophy merely has Greek roots. Listen to what Confucius say.

[Uplift]

Yeh, like I said its a Greek term. And if I don't, I'm not? Maybe not from a philosophers viewpoint. What came before philosophy, what makes it possible?

[Kiba]

Originally Posted by Uplift

The Greeks invented the term philosophy. Philosophy has rules that even philosophers are unclear about, and argue about. It is basically mental gymnastics. Spirit, or God is before philosophy, and exsists without the notion of phlilosophy. If our reality is spirit, unlimited bliss, which exsists before anything else, including karma and suffering, why choose immersion in the study of, and attatchment to the philosophy and conception of karma and suffering. Why not saturate in bliss, our one truth. I see it as that classic question, who am I? Who is witnessing this. The choice is then to direct inwards to truth, letting go of the thought, or direct outwards to the thought, the mind, giving it exsistance and reality. If everyone of us could stop thinking right now, expanding to whats behind everything, then it is unchanging oneness. If from that point we choose to express truth, unending bliss, we experience our own image, or any image we choose. I am aiming, (trying to aim) at truth, unlimited bliss.

This is philosophy. No matter how many way you slice it. You have some philosophical beliefs.

Philosophy can be whatever rules you make it.

You're are aiming at unlimited truth, which is impossible, seeing that we are not all knowing, not unlimited good. I am in the same path as you.

The answers we seek may not be what we like, but the truth is the truth, wheather you accept it or not. To deny such truth is to believe in falsehood. We would embrace these truth to make the world a better place.
This is the way to the path of experiencing unlimited truth and love.

[Uplift]

I think thats what they told Buddha, and Jesus, and Sai Baba and Joan of Arc, and Ghandi, and Yogananada, and Ammachi and Roger Bannister and the Wright brothers, and the woman who lifts a car off her dying child, and the autistic savant that we can't even begin to comprehend, and Richard Branson, and Bill Gates, and... The Spiritual teachings all tell us to strive for perfection, because that is our truth. To transcend our limits, the mind. To have faith. Every now and then someone comes along to give us a genuine demo. I love watching skateboarding (in fact all the extreme sports), because I love sports, and have always been interested in human performance. Have a look at what those kids can do. It defies belief. It's awesome. Skaters, are lucky, they don't have coaches. 'Hey I'm gonna do a triple dooflicky, on a stair case, slide down a rail, fly through the air 360 spin land on a building, somersault on on leg, handstand.' Coach, 'don't be stupid kid, that's impossible, just do your drills like we said, or we'll cut you from the squad. Stop dreamin', you're just a rookie'. 'The Secret'. Awesome movie. Supposedly a gift from God. Like imagination. It has no limits, only yours. Look at babies, they can't walk. Next thing they are on tightropes, dancefloors, doing Tai chi, running, jumping, extreme running and jumping, more extreme running and jumping. Imagine if we said, 'you can't walk, you can only grovel around on your guts, stay where you belong'. Thank God for miracles. Philosophers and scientists hate them, they defy the 'rules', defy the imagination. I'll keep dreaming and aiming.