Psychedelic drugs - Good or bad?

[NicB]

Hey,
The moral of whether drugs are good or bad has always confused me. There are many different views. But what is the truth?

On one side, you have great thinkers like Terence McKenna and Bill Hicks all do great things for the world with the help of drugs. "Psychedelics were planted around the world to help assist evolution". Plenty of musicians used lots of drugs and made music that has touched the world. Some drugs open certain parts of you that you never knew existed. You can learn a LOT from the use of psychedelics.

On the other side, you have the people that say they're no good and mess you up. And they can definitely when abused. And i've heard some spiritual people also mention to stay away from them, as they attract negativity (such as entities and such). Also, use can lead to addiction which has bad results.

So this has left me confused. Are they good or are they bad?? I don't know what to think about it.

From my experience, drugs have been a positive thing. (In particular i'm talking about marijuana, LSD, magic mushrooms, MDMA) Some of my most profound thoughts and ideas have been assisted by these psychedelics. Some amazing connections to people have been developed through the assistance of drugs. Much spiritual learning has been done through the assistance of drugs. Some of the most joyous & scary times have been done through the assistance of drugs. Psychedelics have personally offered me so much experiences to learn from. (I've also experienced some of the bad side of drugs, and learned my lesson. Marijuana can make you lazy/unmotivated/introverted if you use it too often.)

I by no means swear by them, and if i woke up tomorrow and someone told me that drugs don't exist anymore, i wouldn't mind. But why does so much of society hold psychedelics in such a negative light? Is there something i'm missing?

Is it just a matter of moderation and balance? Or should psychedelics be avoided altogether?

What are everyone's thoughts on psychedelic drugs and their place in society?

[Tanemon]

Well, you've got a good handle on what habitual marijuana use does sometimes (lack of motivation, etc). The warnings about stronger psychedelics, particulalry LSD and DMT, have more to do with the fact that a lot of people using unguided, self-administered psychedelic drugs have had unpleasant experiences. Sometimes, by their own admission, they damage themselves psychologically for months or even years afterwards. It's not so much a matter of there being 'one truth' about these things, like you are looking for... it's more a matter of gambling and odds.

Due to places I've lived and things I've done for a living, I've met (if only briefly, in certain instances) probably thousands of people who have used strong entheogens. It's my opinion after many years, and including my own reverent use of these things for about three years, that the risks are major but in some unexpected ways: Many people never fit back into Earth life very well... let alone be able to build "a decent life in society". It's very easy to slip into a personal space where you just find drugs interesting, and then wind up a lifelong "druggie" with your LSD years behind you and habituated to whatever you can get access to.

So I consider psychedelics a partial path. I say "partial" for more than one reason, and not simply because of cultural dissonance (i.e., 'not fitting in at all').

My main reasoning behind my opinion is that, in the many, many people I've met or known who have used them, few substantial abilities have been brought back from these experiences. As you already know, your mind can become more open and your perception may be sensitized in new areas - but usually that's the limit.

That can be a good starting place, but you, Nic, are already there. If people want to develop abilities like being deeply at peace in a wide range of social environments, or like making good art, or like healing, or being healthy, or like clairvoyance, etc - 99.9% of people are going to have to take training and develop themselves. Training - while 'sober' - in meditation, or art, or qi studies, or exercise, and so on. Just as psychedelics have been an exploration for you, these disciplines are also exploration.

[Lucy]

I'm not sure whether they are good/bad or why they need to be labelled as such.

Just last weekend I had a profound spiritual experience while taking something! My thoughts at the time were that this is a sample of what the mind can do... and this experience/feeling/pleasure that I am having can be created without the use of pharmaceuticals. I just need to figure out how.

Personally they're not something I would advocate using regularly - even for personal development purposes, but I normally find some insightfulness from when I do take them.

[ar81]

Drugs help to fund terror.
The more you consume, the more it helps to make taxpayers life harder and it deteriorates national security.

Drugs also increases the chance of frauds and theft in a company, committed by addicts. Addicts also have problems with responsibilities, as addiction takes a bigger part of their lives. In general terms the most reputable companies do not like junkies. Also, addicts use to have more health problems than a normal person, therefore increasing the premium company pays.

So if drugs are cool for addicts, unemployment will be too.

If US get to differenciate from other countries as consumers, it may encourage to send jobs overseas, where employees are not junkies.

It is a decision US citizens need to make.

[Darren]

Here's a similar discussion had on the forum not so long ago you might want to check out Drugs and psychic powers

[Mato Kinze]

"Good" or "bad" are irrelevent out of context. In the context you are speaking of, it's not the drugs themselves that are good or bad, but the Intent behind their use.

Tanemon touched on this a little bit, so I'll expand from the perspective of my own understanding.

The use of what many modern Westerners consider "drugs" goes back litterally tens of thousands of years as a means to experience alternate realities. Shamans and Medicine People throughout the history of the Human Race have allowed plant allies to assist them in seeing and experiencing things they would not normally have experienced.

They did not do this as a recreation to "get high." They did this with the Intent of helping The People and with respect for the spirit of the Ally they were communing with.

You can tell by the words we use to describe the actions how different they are: The way most modern Westerners are familiar with the use of psychedelics is one of ownership or forced submission. "Drugs" are inanimate with no spirit. They are manufactured by people with no Intent other than to make money. They are ingested with no Intent other to "get high" or "looped" or whatever. There is no respect for the spirit of the plant or element which makes up the drug.

This is "bad." It is irreverent and disrespectful. It is this lack of reverence and understanding of the nature of the "drug" that causes physical, spiritual and emotional trauma. It is the lack of respect in it's concoction and distribution that damages the spirit of the ally itself.

Very little "good" comes from this kind of relationship. Very little true Understanding can be gleened from this kind of activity.

In contrast, the respectful partnership of Humans with Plant Allies with the Intent of harmony and better Understanding can lead to immense spiritual growth. It is this second kind of partnership that Shamans and Medicine People have practiced since the Dawn of Thinking Man and still practice to this day.

Unfortunately, too many people, like Carlos Casteneda, have popularized this practice for their own ends and have reduced this highly spiritual and very powerful practice to a curiosity.

Hecetu yelo.
Mato Kinze

[Lucky11]

Please, DO NOT confuse drugs like marijuana with MDMA (ecstasy) or any other kind of chemical, man-made drug. Drugs like crack and mdma are highly addictive and can kill you - if not by the drugs themselves, then by the people associated with the trade. For god's sake, don't take ecstasy to help you think!! And a crack habit can cost hundreds of dollar a day ! Who can afford to pay for that? So a crack addict has to go out and commit break-ins and/or thefts to pay for their habit. Heck, even Michael Jackson was having trouble paying for his drug habit. I also firmly believe that continued use of drugs will "block" your thoughts and mind from our higher power and hold you back. Please think about things said in this thread.

[joelr]

Originally Posted by ar81

If US get to differenciate from other countries as consumers, it may encourage to send jobs overseas, where employees are not junkies.

It is a decision US citizens need to make.

Turns out people in other countries do drugs too.

"The paucity of the data on which the annual prevalence estimates are based does not allow for the identification of clear global trends in the short term. As an imperfect complement, UNODC relies on the perception of the trends in their countries by national experts. A global analysis of these perceptions suggest that the strongest increase over the last decade was for cannabis use and ATS, and at lower levels for opiates and cocaine. After some stabilization in 2003, ATS drug use was perceived as having increased again, reflecting the prevailing view in East and South-East Asia that methamphetamine use has started rising again.
"Opiate abuse trends flattened in recent years. However, by 2004, opiate abuse perceptions again went upwards, as many countries around Afghanistan experienced a renewed supply-push following Afghanistan's good opium harvests of 2003 and 2004. In other parts of the world, including North America and Western Europe, abuse levels remained constant for opiates. After years of increases, cocaine use is perceived as declining slightly, notably in the Americas. In Europe, by contrast, cocaine use continues to expand."
Source:
United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC), World Drug Report 2006 Vol. 1: Analysis (Vienna, Austria: UNODC, June 2006), p. 9.

[ar81]

Companies do not like addicts or even drug consumption.
A group of blokes were fired where I work in recent days.
Want some drugs? You may lose your job...

[Tanemon]

Lest the discussion get off track too much, I'll remind people here that NicB specifically asked about the value psychedelic drugs (sometimes called "entheogens"). These are to be distinguished from opiates, amphetamines, barbiturates, and drugs of other sorts.

I tried to speak specifically to what NicB was asking about.

I was responsible for mentioning that some people, who start out exploring their minds using psychedelics later get into the habit of using - even relying on - drugs of other sorts. They become "druggies." Not everybody does that.

Some people confine themselves to strong and milder psychedelics (e.g., LSD and marijuana), and try to regulate their usage of these. Some go from psychedelics into non-drug self exploration and personal/spiritual growth.

What I'd tried to say in my first response is that, in my opinion, it's an unfortunate thing when people drift from psychedelics into 'drugs in general', living their lives relying on substances (e.g., alcohol, cocaine) rather than pursuing self-realization.

[runningbird]

Originally Posted by Lucky11

Please, DO NOT confuse drugs like marijuana with MDMA (ecstasy) or any other kind of chemical, man-made drug. Drugs like crack and mdma are highly addictive and can kill you - if not by the drugs themselves, then by the people associated with the trade. For god's sake, don't take ecstasy to help you think!! And a crack habit can cost hundreds of dollar a day ! Who can afford to pay for that? So a crack addict has to go out and commit break-ins and/or thefts to pay for their habit. Heck, even Michael Jackson was having trouble paying for his drug habit. I also firmly believe that continued use of drugs will "block" your thoughts and mind from our higher power and hold you back. Please think about things said in this thread.

You may have been fed some misinformation on MDMA. Have you seen Peter Jenning's Ecstasy Rising?

[blossom]

Does anyone have any experience or know about the effects that copious amounts of Ketamine and excessive use of nitrous oxide can have on a person? I know that everyone is an individual and therefore, different people can handle larger amounts than others...but I used to go out with a fella who did these drugs, which freaked tha hell out of me, but he seemed cool with it, and said it was helping him by turning his brain off? I am no longer with him, but still curious about what damage can can be done to a person who does these sort of drugs in large amounts? He did exhibit signs of slight paralysis in his lower extremities, and sensitivity to sound, which is what I read were the side effects, but just want to know more about this if anyone knows stuff, that'd be great!

[Mafistos]

Personally I believe drug use is not good if you are interested in the path. I think they falsely "open your mind," and although they give people spiritual/religous experiances these can never measure up to the true knowledge and enlightenment that one can achieve through disiplined meditation/other spiritual practices. I know poeple that dabble in psychedelic drugs and they are very intellectual free thinkers, but they will never be conscious completely because you this. You know what I mean? It's a drug--a foriegn substance to our bodies. I would think that to awaken inner knowledge you'd need to work with what you have (your body and mind), not have to take some foriegn substance to unlock it. I'm going out on a limb and assuming that spiritual masters like Christ or Sameal Aun Weor didn't rely on psychedelic drugs to grant them the knowledge they taught. So...this is just my opinion on it. As far as attracting lower vibrational forces to yourself through drug use--I definately wouldn't doubt it. I just feel that it's wrong. It isn't because I've been "socially conditioned." My personal intuition just tells me that it's wrong even if I am interested in it.

[Shmellix]

I believe that the fact that there are certain plants on this planet which when ingested by humans expands our conciousness is no co-incidence. These plants have evolved and we have evolved for millions of years together, they are teachers of nature.

I have tried a lot of different "drugs" in the past, i can tell which ones have been harmfull or useless to me, and I can tell which have been beneficial to me. And of the last 10 years of personal research with "drugs" I can honestly say the most harmfull to me was alcohol, and most man-made drugs are pretty useless (Apart from LSD) however all the psycadelic plants I have tried have been beneficial to me I feel, they are totally non-addictive, marijuana was also beneficial although I did get a bit carried away with that... Dont smoke any more now though. And the reason why is....

Ayahuasca. An incredible brew I found out about a year ago, it is the most amazing experience of all the psycadelics. It blew me away, one experience changed my life more than the 10 years of doing psycadelics, it was so intense it completely stripped me of all the things that made me unhappy, my worries, fears, doubts, insecurities, judgements, useless beliefs, everything that did not serve me in life was washed away and replaced with incredible love, confidence and peace, I felt re-born into this world. I had this experience 2 months ago and have been completely sober since then, I still feel incredible, life is a miracle.

Drugs are not the right choice for everyone, some people can get messed up from them. But if you have tried psycadelics and feel confident taking them..... Ayahuasca, let the spirit of nature guide you through personal transformation

[desertrat]

Shmellix welcome to the forum . The key is moderation and personal responceibility . This thread is from 2009 if you want to discuss drugs and there efects , you can start a new thread . Hear is one of mine , its a link to a you tube video , the author of a book says the founders of Christiny used mushrooms in there rituals . Jesus was a mushroom desert rat

[RonSouther]

No matter what you do with drugs, just know that drugs are not a replacement for knowing self, for dropping ego, for becoming mentally whole.

They may get you a peek at your true self but you'll still have to travel the arduous path of evolving out of ego and into your true self.

[taylor]

There are several downsides though with psychedelics, tbh.

1. Bad trips
They are scary.

2. Hallucinogen persisting perception disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

3. Psychosis
It's rare, and you have to be prone to mental illness to begin with.

4. Destruction of conventional values / alienation from societal norms
If this is a positive or negative decide for yourself but they can cause you to question things that might significantly alter your life path often causing you to be unsuccessful in traditional measures of success.

[desertrat]

Manny of the people that use drugs ( not all ) alcohol included ,abuse them . They use them as an escape . As I said before , moderation and responceability will get you a long way. desert rat

[PrinceOfFire]

Originally Posted by Shmellix

I believe that the fact that there are certain plants on this planet which when ingested by humans expands our conciousness is no co-incidence. These plants have evolved and we have evolved for millions of years together, they are teachers of nature.

I have tried a lot of different "drugs" in the past, i can tell which ones have been harmfull or useless to me, and I can tell which have been beneficial to me. And of the last 10 years of personal research with "drugs" I can honestly say the most harmfull to me was alcohol, and most man-made drugs are pretty useless (Apart from LSD) however all the psycadelic plants I have tried have been beneficial to me I feel, they are totally non-addictive, marijuana was also beneficial although I did get a bit carried away with that... Dont smoke any more now though. And the reason why is....

Ayahuasca. An incredible brew I found out about a year ago, it is the most amazing experience of all the psycadelics. It blew me away, one experience changed my life more than the 10 years of doing psycadelics, it was so intense it completely stripped me of all the things that made me unhappy, my worries, fears, doubts, insecurities, judgements, useless beliefs, everything that did not serve me in life was washed away and replaced with incredible love, confidence and peace, I felt re-born into this world. I had this experience 2 months ago and have been completely sober since then, I still feel incredible, life is a miracle.

Drugs are not the right choice for everyone, some people can get messed up from them. But if you have tried psycadelics and feel confident taking them..... Ayahuasca, let the spirit of nature guide you through personal transformation

I wouldn't recommend people to make their own brew at home and expect a pleasant experience. Ayahuasca is a shamanic tool and should be used only in a shamanic ceremony. You need people around you that really KNOW what they are doing, not your stupid pot-friend. If you are serious about ayahuasca, go to Peru to a ayahuasca retreat in Amazonas and stay there for 1 month. There you will learn about their culture, how they have been doing this for thousands of years and get guidance by experienced shamans.

I know some people that did this and they told me the first experience with aya was bad, and they felt a lot of negative emotions and so one. It was a cleansing process, and after 10 ceremonies they started to really enjoy it. I think they did 20+ ceremonies in one month, and they all helped to make the brew and learned to respect the nature and so on.

[DecisionTime]

It seems that most people in this thread already have their own evidence but here's something that might be of interest. The article says 2008 but for some reason I've heard about this twice within the last couple months as if it were new.

Study: 'Magic mushrooms' have long benefit - Health - Health care - More health news - msnbc.com

[nothuman]

Lab tests were conducted in the late 60s using lay people as well as people with metaphysical leanings.
I like Alan Watts' analysis the best, he took LSD on a few occassions under supervision to measure it's worth against a ' valid spiritual experiensce '.
His findings were that yes, LSD bought about an experience that was indeed of spiritual significance. However he compared the experience as swimming using water wings.
I find that to be correct with my own ahem..... ' research ' that it does instill a state of creation and oneness, but ultimately there is a price to pay.

[taylor]

Yeah, it's sort of a shortcut. For the spiritually sensitive it won't ever satisfy because it always wears off eventually.

[Luciddd]

I wouldnt recommend it, you really dont get near to the truth bar maybe VERY superficial glimpses that anyone with any level of development could get. Maybe its my phobia for drugs and maybe I am completely drug, there is a decent probability of it. However from my research it isnt worth it, the experience isnt lasting and you can get drug addicted.

Basically it is because you have zero control of the experience, if geniune at all.