30 days without LANGUAGE

[Plays With Life]

This is something I want to do .. maybe even longer. It really strikes me what a MASSIVE amount of language I have in my life .. and how much of my time I spend engaging language in some way or another: reading, writing, listening to a person speak, talking myself (not TO myself :P ), watching TV shows or listening to the radio .. it's ALL language. If I removed all language from my house there would be a lot to go. If I removed all language from my life .. what would I do with my time? I'm fascinated by that question. What would life be like without language?

[Angela]

I don't know, but it's a shame you wouldn't be able to record your results along the way.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Plays With Life

What would life be like without language?

Lonely.

[Brown Eyed Mystic]

That's something close to "no-speech" days which I sometimes wish to observe. But completely banning language would be huge.

First off, i think reading is really my type of activity so I don't know if I would go there and give it up, at this point in time atleast. Some more years of exploring would be fine. Yes, a lot of verbal talking to people does miff me so that's a great idea. And when you aren't talking with them, you would have much less to listen to even.

Anyway, reading and writing are somewhat "passive/quieter" to me so I would want to keep them. Also I feel completely banning language is a bit of a task coz then how would you "think to yourself"? There has to be some medium. Forget talking, reading, writing and all. How about your own thoughts? Yes, you can be thoughtless, but for how long? Interesting things these are, and I feel if you really suceed in completely letting go of language it would be...well, Quiet..real Quiet. Maybe its another way to clearing and de-cluttering, or to void, another way to a deeper knowledge.

[Plays With Life]

Maybe after a little time (a few weeks, or something) without reading, writing, listening to anyone speak, or making any attempt to express yourself with language .. your mind would stop translating your experiences into language. One image I have of it is .. what if the only thing you did with your time was paint? Or draw? The only things you engaged in your mind were images .. no words at all? You don't need language to paint. What would your day-to-day experience be like if language were replaced with imagery in your mind?

[Brown Eyed Mystic]

Yes, imagery is beautiful, true.
But, I consider language just as a medium. Now, imagery is also one another medium, IMO. Even if its just images, it is a way which translates to something (thoughts?) before/during/after the act of painting. So if you mean language conventionally, like only with the words, then imaging is sure a little far away from that, but still it will result into something sort of a language in your own mind eventually, to say the least.
Art, words, acts are all language to me. All lead to the thoughts in the mind.

[Plays With Life]

I guess what I mean is .. never express anything that is a reference to a concept, and never interpret anything you encounter as a reference to a concept. Experience what you experience exactly as it is, and don't interpret it as meaning anything. If you hear speech .. it's a sequence of sounds, and doesn't link to any words. If you see writing .. it's shapes, and doesn't link to any words. What is the world REALLY like if you experience it directly, and never do that whole "this is what it means .. this is what it means .. this is what it means" thing?

[Brown Eyed Mystic]

Hmm. Well, just suppose you have been allowed to "erase" the fact that you attached a meaning to things at one point in life. Then after sometime, I think, it would probably lead to an urge to learning what it means. The caveman response. Perhaps, it will automatically lead the mind to explore and know. This will be moreso coz people around you would still be attaching meaning to things.

This second one's relevant here. If you are to retain that memory of you knowing the what's what and why's why and begin on ignoring/stopping to attach any meaning to things, it would be plain....tough. How would that basic instinct be killed, I ain't sure. What would one do all the time then? Its like either of the two: an OS failure, there's the hardware etc but no thing to do, Or pure ecstacy. Which one you may ask, I simply can't say at this point. One thing though, if you abandon all the meaning, knowing etc how will you experience that which is meant to be experienced. Will it not be a hurdle in the growth of the soul? It will sure wash away all the clutter, but what if its like throwing the baby with the bathwater...

I'll take it as a food for thought and post if I do reach to something more. Interesting

[Plays With Life]

Good point. After I wrote that I started imagining what my house would look like if I didn't have the concept of a table .. and a chair .. and a box .. if I couldn't distinguish them because I didn't have those concepts. That'd be something.

I guess I was thinking more of meaning that's attached by convention .. you don't know what it references unless someone tells you. Attached meaning, as opposed to .. intrinsic meaning?

[Brown Eyed Mystic]

Yeah that'd be more like not attaching erroneous "junk" to something till you reach its intrinsic meaning. It would be like being connected to your HS. Many ways to reach there. Reading material, books, and the web would help. So don't give up on the reading part just as yet

But thats got not much to do with the OT I guess, a little off track from it, anyway.

[Plays With Life]

The language bit is all the symbolic references .. and the rest is conceptual meaning attached-by-experience. So, keep the internal concepts, and drop all the symbolic references. Just never use 'em for a period of time, either to interpret the world, or to express something. That's what I'm curious to experience.

[Brown Eyed Mystic]

the rest is conceptual meaning attached-by-experience.

Amen.

"Experiencing" is the word.

That's what I'm curious to experience.

If that makes you curious, which is a good thing btw, then try implementing it. If not for all those concepts out there, then for just a single concept, if not for 30 days then maybe for a bit. Why not experience it for yourself then, as you rightly put in words above? I would be interested to know how it went, if at all you decide to.

[Plays With Life]

It's definitely on my list.

[Arlina]

I can simply not get my head around was that would be like to experience but I am fairly certain if I tried it i would be miserable! I think I would feel disconnected and isolated and lonely! Not from the world because I can quite easily shut out the rest of the world ( I have hermetic tendencies!) but from myself, from my guides, from the energy and from source. To me language is just another way of honouring my spirituality and walking my path, maybe this is because I am used to having something happen when I sit in that space - i never meditate without having something actually come out of it; drawings, stories, symbols, answers, mantras - even though i never intend on it going in.

Now Im kind of fascinated by how it would effect me!

Can you imagine the level of control and commitment it would take because we naturally put things into language - I mean even when there's no-one around most people's react to stubbing a toe is to curse out loud, I wonder if those impulses could be subverted?!

[Plays With Life]

Yeah, I guess you could scream instead of curse.

I actually don't put things into language, a lot of the time .. sometimes getting my thoughts into words takes a lot of effort. Maybe that's why I'm interested .. I've always thought it would just be such a relief if I didn't have to deal with any language for a while. I think dropping language would really come naturally to me. Maybe I'm part animal

I kind of imagine making something, like a bow-and-arrow from a wild environment, without language. The way I see it is you'd get an inspiration to make a bow-and-arrow, you'd imagine it in your mind and compare it to the world, come up with what you need, go find those things and acquire them, bring them to your dwelling, work them, all the while following your inspirations and images in your mind, not using language once along the way. My idea is that you don't need language at all to manifest those inspirations. You could just follow inspiration by focusing on it, and never bother putting any of it into words.

I guess I've felt some of my creative impulses would have been better left to their own course, and instead I languaged all over them and sort of lost touch with 'em. I kind of imagine this as a way of training myself to just let those through, start to finish.

[Brown Eyed Mystic]

Was sifting through some work and your thread came to my mind when I saw this, thought it may be relevant.

Languages, Words, and Their Limitations - by Dharmbir Rai Sharma

[Plays With Life]

Ooh, interesting! Thanks for the pointer.

[agnostic]

Great books on the topic are "language in thought and action" and "General Semantics" and anything by Benjamin Lee Whorf. Living witout language is pretty much impossible. But you can become more aware of it and the dangers it entails.
Zen Buddhists try stuff like this for 40+ years. So ... best of luck.

[Plays With Life]

That article is really interesting - thanks. I always try to remap things in my own mind when people say something "is" something.

That is so cute! = They like it
That was awesome = They like it
That guy is such an ass = They don't like him

Abolishing "is" sounds like a damn good idea to me.

And wow - 40+ years! That'd be something.

[Plays With Life]

In fact, I'm going to practice never saying "is"/"was"/"am" in spoken interactions, and see what happens. I wonder how difficult it'll be.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Plays With Life

In fact, I'm going to practice never saying "is"/"was"/"am" in spoken interactions, and see what happens. I wonder how difficult it'll be.

Wouldn't you have to also abolish "will be," as in "I wonder how difficult it'll be"?

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by Angela

Wouldn't you have to also abolish "will be," as in "I wonder how difficult it'll be"?

Lol. Whoops. I'm not sure how to rephrase that one: I wonder how much effort it will take.

[Angela]

I wonder how easily and effortlessly I can do this.

[OlderWiser]

Okay, these are just random thoughts that arise when I consider the original post. Take them only for what they're worth to you. They may be worth nothing at all (I'm okay with that ).

Language is hard-wired into the human animal. A huge portion of our nervous system is set up to interpret it. Babies start interpreting it long before they can reproduce it. It's very much part of the experience of being human, hard-wired into our DNA.

Whole theses are written about the effect of language on culture, and the effect of culture on language, and how we, as human organisms, generate, are limited, and are empowered by language. If we call it a skunkcabbage, does it really smell as sweet as if I call it a rose? There's probably a master's thesis in psycholinguistics there...

(Next thought, possibly totally unrelated to previous observation

I certainly think you could go without speaking (hey, some monks and nuns and other ascetics do it for years at a time!), I cannot imagine how you would be able to remove all language from your life. You couldn't drive (there are words inside your car and on many street signs that you need to pay attention to), couldn't watch television (or even look at one, as they usually have labels on them), no music (even if you listen to music without words, the CD player or tape deck - do people still use those? - has words and language on them), you couldn't cook anything that required following a recipe or reading directions. Laundry could be a problem if you needed to know the care instructions for a particular garment...

Also, symbols are ALSO a kind of language. A red triangle with a white centre, stuck on a pole at the end of a street means something very specific. A cross stuck on the top of a building is saying something. Someone holding up two fingers with palm forward is saying something, and also someone holding up their middle finger, back of the hand forward. The little figures on the doors of public toilets are "saying" something very specific, too. Would you also need to remove or ignore "communicative symbols"?

If you were really going to undertake something like this, you'd pretty much have to go on retreat somewhere. I'm sure it would be an extraordinary thing to experience, and perhaps there are ashrams or similar where you could do this, but I can't imagine how a person living in the modern world could pull it off.

(Next thought, also possibly unrelated to others

I do understand the desire for quietness. I escape all the "noise" of yak-yak-yak (much of which was generated by my own mind) with meditation. After some years of doing it, the inside of my head is a much quieter place than it used to be. Unfortunately, the outside is just as noisy, but I'm better able to retreat to the Silence now.

Again, these are all just thoughts that arose, so I expressed them. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm just exploring the idea of language through, well, language.... Take it for what it's worth.

[Plays With Life]

Thanks for the reply, OlderWiser.

Originally Posted by OlderWiser

I certainly think you could go without speaking (hey, some monks and nuns and other ascetics do it for years at a time!), I cannot imagine how you would be able to remove all language from your life. You couldn't drive (there are words inside your car and on many street signs that you need to pay attention to), couldn't watch television (or even look at one, as they usually have labels on them), no music (even if you listen to music without words, the CD player or tape deck - do people still use those? - has words and language on them), you couldn't cook anything that required following a recipe or reading directions. Laundry could be a problem if you needed to know the care instructions for a particular garment...

Also, symbols are ALSO a kind of language. A red triangle with a white centre, stuck on a pole at the end of a street means something very specific. A cross stuck on the top of a building is saying something. Someone holding up two fingers with palm forward is saying something, and also someone holding up their middle finger, back of the hand forward. The little figures on the doors of public toilets are "saying" something very specific, too. Would you also need to remove or ignore "communicative symbols"?

If you were really going to undertake something like this, you'd pretty much have to go on retreat somewhere. I'm sure it would be an extraordinary thing to experience, and perhaps there are ashrams or similar where you could do this, but I can't imagine how a person living in the modern world could pull it off.

Right. I envision doing it in a wild area. Particularly I see a forest. I wouldn't do it and try to function within a society. I wonder what would happen if one ceased engaging the world the way society has instilled. Including the ways of interpreting the world that have been learned. How would you engage it and interpret it without language?

I think you could simply not engage most of this language stuff - television, music, reading, writing, speaking. I generally don't watch a television or listen to music. I don't even have a TV or radio. The big change for me would be reading and writing. I often jot down some inspiration that comes to me, or seek out writing on some subject that takes my interest. I wonder what I would do with those impulses if I could not engage them via language.

You're right about symbols having meaning attached to them, too. The practice would involve simply not activating those associations when you encounter the symbol. The same goes for any language you encounter. Simply don't interpret it. This brings to mind times when I've had my attention on something, and so heard someone's words but didn't "get" what they were saying, because I wasn't interpreting the language. Maybe that could be done at will.

The world: uninterpreted.

I wonder what the day-to-day experience would feel like?

(I've tried to rephrase all "isness" words, so please let me know if you caught any )

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by OlderWiser

Language is hard-wired into the human animal. A huge portion of our nervous system is set up to interpret it. Babies start interpreting it long before they can reproduce it. It's very much part of the experience of being human, hard-wired into our DNA.

Do you have more information on this?

[Brown Eyed Mystic]

You're right about symbols having meaning attached to them, too.

Gotcha! Ain't that a form of "is-ness" too?
Didn't look for more

[OlderWiser]

Originally Posted by Plays With Life

Do you have more information on this?

Well, psycholinguistics isn't my field, though I have read a fair bit on the topic, just because I find it interesting.

One author I can recommend is George Lakoff. Most of his books are political, but his writings on how language shapes concepts and ideas is applicable to most other fields. I also very, very much recommend is book, "Metaphors We Live By". It's an incredibly insight into the human mind and how it works, and the role language has in every aspect of our thoughts, beliefs, and behavior. Also have a look at "Women, Fire, and Dangerous Things". The insight into the mind based on linguistics is really fascinating.

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by Brown Eyed Mystic

Gotcha! Ain't that a form of "is-ness" too?
Didn't look for more

Ah! Yeah it is. Thanks

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by OlderWiser

Well, psycholinguistics isn't my field, though I have read a fair bit on the topic, just because I find it interesting.

One author I can recommend is George Lakoff. Most of his books are political, but his writings on how language shapes concepts and ideas is applicable to most other fields. I also very, very much recommend is book, "Metaphors We Live By". It's an incredibly insight into the human mind and how it works, and the role language has in every aspect of our thoughts, beliefs, and behavior. Also have a look at "Women, Fire, and Dangerous Things". The insight into the mind based on linguistics is really fascinating.

Thanks for the pointers.