Natural deaths?

[Athena]

How are spiritual contracts written to incude time and method of death?

A prominent music producer in my area just passed due to suicide, in the news people pointed to a breakup with his fiancee, as well as his struggle with bipolar disorder and depression. Is this a 'natural death' on spiritual terms, or did he leave the world before he was meant to? Was this supposed to happen as it did? What will he encounter on the other side?

It is interesting to note that many successful artists and creatives are noted to have some mental instabilites. In this case, it seems like this person was blessed with a mind that was both artistically talented, but which also tormented him. Did the God-force or the spirits plan for him to have such a mind, to contribute music to millions, and also to leave the world when he did?

Is 'natural death' of body failure at old age the only kind of written death, or are accidents and suicides also written in contracts and accepted by God/spirits as natural passings well?

[Erin Pavlina]

I'm going to be writing a blog entry soon on the spiritual consequences of suicide.

But this man's suicide was not a natural death in terms of his spiritual contract.

Accidents are sometimes planned (that sounds like an oxymoron doesn't it?)

[Athena]

Great, Erin!


I'll add that in the case of this man, he was young (perhaps reckless?), and often under the influence of drugs (like marijuana, I don't know if any others, but may have had a clouded mind at the time).


Also wondering about people who live dangerously, for instance Steve Irwin, whose actions were always on the edge of danger, as some would say 'inviting death'.

And also, in cases where people seem to have attracted negative things to themselves, for instance cancer in the LOA view, or people who have lived imbibing toxins for a long period of time, like smokers or drinkers who eventually die from lung cancer or cirrhosis, 'slow suicides' as some say.

Can those be termed natural deaths, where this man's instant death was not?

It seems that there aren't clear lines between 'natural deaths', where something happens TO someone, and deaths in which the person attracts the deadly circumstances.

[Matthew Shea]

Regarding people like Steve Irwin, there is a big difference between accepting that an action of yours carries an above average risk of death and purposely bringing about your death. I'm sure Steve didn't want to die, but I'm also sure he accepted the fact that he was dealing with an animal that could possibly kill him. There may have been something he could have done to avoid what happened, but in that case his only wrongdoing is a bit of carelessness that had unfortunately tragic results. You also have to consider motivations. In other words, his actions in particular served a higher purpose, i.e. educating people about animals and helping to preserve and protect them. He wasn't just agitating the animal for the sake of agitating it.

[Michelle]

In reference to artists who are mentally unstable...

I find this comes from being sensitive in such a way it makes one want to die in order to be relieved of the a.) incredible pain and b.) boundless joy and ecstasy that comes with it. It also stems from having to a.) be vulnerable in order to produce "art" while b.) subjecting all your exposed vulnerabilities to judgement, criticism or even simple enjoyment by others. Art is strangely private and intimate while being public and exhibitionistic. Any artist who claims to be free of understanding these paradoxes has not yet understood art.

In this day and age though, there are more possibilities for artists to help (and be) themselves.

I've been through years of psychotherapy, done reiki, trying eft, 8 years conservatory, converted my belief system to subjective reality, work day and night to release anything which might stand in the way of my singing well ... and now finally feel like I might be somewhere close to sane and creating true art.

[Athena]

Matthew: that's a great explanation, to point to the intention as the important part. But also in the case of the artist, his intention was to relieve his suffering.
I think before one can contribute to others, especially on a large scale, it's an important prerequisite to be stable in oneself, especially mental stability.
If he felt that his mental health and circumstances in his life no longer served him to allow his talents to flow through him and contribute, as he already had to millions in the span of his short career, maybe by leaving this life he freed his spirit to move on to new pursuits.

Whether or not the action was shortsighted, if he could have waited and seen through his circumstances or tried to work through his mental troubles, I don't know. Most of all I hope that he is in heaven and that his spirit is at peace!


Michelle: that's great that you worked through your mental state and outlook to open up to your art-- it's great that you seem to be 'grounded' and mentally clear, as well as open to the flow of art. Many artists seem try to live exclusively in their art, while often neglecting other practical parts of their lives, financial, mental, health, relationships, etc. It's good to see that balance in all parts helps you to enhance the flow of your creative spirit.

[Dharma]

You choose when you leave the physical dimension.
Most of the death we see is unconscious. The inner self knows it's going to end it, but the ego is not willing to go there. People can choose to die in their sleep, from a disease, in an accident, or more consciously but extremely polarized, suicide.

You cannot leave early or on schedule. You choose when you want to leave and that choice is in the moment. You are not scripted to be born, stay on the earth for 75 years, and then die in a freak waterskiing accident. It's not scripted like that.

You can develop terminal cancer, have one week to live and then say, "no, I want to live", and then wake up the next day cancer-free. It's a choice in the moment.

What will he [prominent music producer] encounter on the other side?

He probably went unconscious the moment he left the physical plane and will try again in another body/time/place if he chooses to incarnate again. He can also choose to work out his issues in the non-physical realms too.

[Mitalp]

Drugs may have clouded his mind, but I wouldn't say marijuana. My reason is because I used to be very depressed and suicide was a constant theme on my mind. Marijuana always cleared things up for me and made it much easier. I know they say that your problems are still there after you come down from the high, but so is the clarity and insight that high gives you. I can truly say marijuana and music saved my life, they held my hand through the dark nights.

Originally Posted by Athena

Great, Erin!


I'll add that in the case of this man, he was young (perhaps reckless?), and often under the influence of drugs (like marijuana, I don't know if any others, but may have had a clouded mind at the time).


Also wondering about people who live dangerously, for instance Steve Irwin, whose actions were always on the edge of danger, as some would say 'inviting death'.

And also, in cases where people seem to have attracted negative things to themselves, for instance cancer in the LOA view, or people who have lived imbibing toxins for a long period of time, like smokers or drinkers who eventually die from lung cancer or cirrhosis, 'slow suicides' as some say.

Can those be termed natural deaths, where this man's instant death was not?

It seems that there aren't clear lines between 'natural deaths', where something happens TO someone, and deaths in which the person attracts the deadly circumstances.

[Mitalp]

No suicide is a natural death, because it's not God or the Universe that's ready to take you. It's your mind that takes you.

A lot of times the pain pours out in creativity. I actually sometime miss the pain, because the poetry I used to right while depressed, was the best I ever wrote.

Originally Posted by Athena

How are spiritual contracts written to incude time and method of death?

A prominent music producer in my area just passed due to suicide, in the news people pointed to a breakup with his fiancee, as well as his struggle with bipolar disorder and depression. Is this a 'natural death' on spiritual terms, or did he leave the world before he was meant to? Was this supposed to happen as it did? What will he encounter on the other side?

It is interesting to note that many successful artists and creatives are noted to have some mental instabilites. In this case, it seems like this person was blessed with a mind that was both artistically talented, but which also tormented him. Did the God-force or the spirits plan for him to have such a mind, to contribute music to millions, and also to leave the world when he did?

Is 'natural death' of body failure at old age the only kind of written death, or are accidents and suicides also written in contracts and accepted by God/spirits as natural passings well?

[Athena]

Dharma: I agree, I think that whatever the script is, that is how the story goes. There shouldn't be a right or wrong way to die, from a spiritual perspective. Maybe there is some leeway in circumstances, for instance, the producer was meant to leave the earth this year, and some way or another he would have passed on. That he had a hand in his own death, I think, shouldn't change anything on a spiritual level.

I wonder if anyone can try to channel him and see what's up!?

Mitalp: Isn't the mind part of God and Universe? How was his mind separate from that at that time?

[Liara Covert]

If people assume there's a "right or a wrong way" to die, they may assume they have control over the where, when and how. Suicide excluded, it doesn't appear to me that we, as individuals, have a large amount of control over the exact timing of this future event.

If death is a question of changing consciousness, your belief system may somehow determine if you choose to come back. After all, in life, we shape consciousness according to our hopes and desires (or lack of them). Some belief systems even deny the idea of reincarnation as a collective choice.

Some people favour the concept of reincarnation since it offers hope for social, psychological or circumstantial advancement. Ironically, this doesn't necessaily seem to be a reflection of increasing detachment. I wonder how we, as individuals, might guide the nature or mechanism of rebirth even if something we can't see or grasp in life is also involved? This intrigues me.

[Athena]

Some people favour the concept of reincarnation since it offers hope for social, psychological or circumstantial advancement. Ironically, this doesn't necessaily seem to be a reflection of increasing detachment.

This is true, and also in the reverse-- I also wonder why enlightenment seems to come easily to those who have separated themselves from society, monks, gurus, sages, etc, who went to the mountaintop to meditate for years and finally found themselves free of the cycle of reincarnation? It seems to me a very isolated and non-contributive practice. It seems like advancement of your soul, if there is such a thing, would better come through contributing to the progress of humanity, rather than isolating yourself and trying to transcend humanity?

[jamasiel]

They all serve their purpose. I'd tend to think that suicide would be a less-fruitful option, but still a part of the flow of the universe in a larger sense.
More fruitful options are encouraged, but really, it's literally impossible to act outside of the way of the Universe.