Consciousness of Reason

[darkw0rker]

I have been very curious about this level of consciousness. I think Steve's description of this level is not accurate and is misleading.

When I think of this level what comes to my mind are men like Einstein, Kant, Spinoza and all other great philosophers. They all have something in common. They have transcended their emotions and think fully rationally. Reason is also a value that is an end in itself, not merely a means to another passion or desire.

Let's talk about reason here. I'm pretty sure that there's a lot I don't know about this level. So I would be glad if someone would enlighten me.

[Zas]

"The only real valuable thing is intuition." -Einstein

[Xanafax]

Intuition is not knowledge, nor is it the means to gain knowledge.

I had to laugh, you called Kant a great philosopher!! lol.

Reason, in my opinion, is the only way we can ever really know anything. Intuition has its place. But I do not believe there is anything higher on the scale in terms of acquiring knowledge, than reason.

[ZHereford]

Originally Posted by Xanafax

I had to laugh, you called Kant a great philosopher!! lol.

Kant was a great philosopher and one of the most influential!

Reason, in my opinion, is the only way we can ever really know anything. Intuition has its place. But I do not believe there is anything higher on the scale in terms of acquiring knowledge, than reason.

The empiricist philosophers such as Locke, Berkeley and Hume would beg to differ with you.

[Zas]

My point was that Einstein might not agree with the idea that his value was primarily due to "rationality," as the original post suggests. Of course, I don't converse with the dead, so I don't actually know the truth about him or about the other people mentioned.

I used to be primarily logic-oriented, but was inspired by this site to explore other tools. In my experience now, it has a lot of limitations. I mean, it's not the people who can add and subtract p's and q's who solve problems and who break into new territory- It's the people with fearless imagination. BTW, it's kinda funny when you explore the historical development of our understanding of matter because a lot of it seems to be tied up in politics and drama. (Particularly if you check out BBC's "Illusion of Reality" vid with Professor Jim Al-Khalili on Google, hee hee.)

It's funny too that rationalization can be considered a psychological defense mechanism. I mean, it's not really about truth if your biases will affect your argument. For instance, Einstein could be argued to be a great example of rational thinking OR a great example of following hunches (which are feelings.)

I think a true master of answers and solutions uses all the tools available and acknowledges all limitations. To me, Einstein is an amazing example of using all of one's resources.

[darkw0rker]

Originally Posted by Xanafax

Intuition is not knowledge, nor is it the means to gain knowledge.

I had to laugh, you called Kant a great philosopher!! lol.
.

Either you have no idea who a great philosopher is, or you have no idea who Kant was.

And regarding intuition, it actually is a way to get knowledge. Numerous mathematical discoveries were merely by means of intuition, therefore reason was a way to explain or prove it right.

Although I do not see intuition as a metaphysical magical ability. It's just a skill that has to be exercised in a given activity. One can have a high degree of intuition in mathematics but none in other fields.

[Bative]

Intuition is the key factor in understanding how the human mind and society evolved. Without intuition humans would never have taken the proper steps in the first place to achieve the state of evolution is has.

Through intuition the imaginative elaboration of physical sciences can be applied to known data, if you apply what resources a n intuitive mind holds, combined with a previously worldly taught regiment of reason and logic, you are bound to have good outcomes.

This is why philosophers and scientists who achieve these states of consciousness often are also inventors, with heavy backed up methodological theory and observation.

You start to notice the effects of evolution everywhere in nature, and the rational effect evolution has on our minds and consciences..

[AirBreather]

Originally Posted by darkw0rker

I have been very curious about this level of consciousness. I think Steve's description of this level is not accurate and is misleading.

*snip*

If you are referring to Levels of Consciousness , and want a better look at the source he is referring to (David R. Hawkins writeups on the levels of consciousness, especially reason) - check out "Transcending the Levels of Consciousness" ( Amazon.com: Transcending the Levels of Consciousness: Dr. David R. Hawkins M.D. Ph.D.: Books ).

There are in-depth writeups for each 'level of consciousness' therein.