Two Religious Questions

[Andrew Michaels]

I've read the bible several times, and I'm trying to find the exact quote and page number for the line where god admits to being a jealous and wrathful god. It may have been in Job.

Also, I'm not sure if this is an official philosophical stance, but I remember a few years back reading "A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man." In it, he, for a time, chooses a stance, which may have been in Latin, which meant "I shall not serve," or some such.

I've had no luck finding the exact term.

Can anyone help me with these two?

Thanks.

[Angela]

There's the second commandment, talking about graven images:

"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God."

[tropicality]

You could try checking out Biblical Injustice

edit: I just have to add this in here! http://loljesus.com/wp-content/uploads/bible%20copy.jpg

[Yev]

There are several instances where the god of the bible makes this claim
See Exodus 20:5, Deuteronomy 4:24, 5:9 and 6:15, Joshua 24:19, Nahum 1:2.

Sorry, I have no idea of your second question.

[Matthew Shea]

Originally Posted by tropicality

You could try checking out Biblical Injustice

Please be very careful of this web site. The site's author admits to his poor understanding and lack of faith and the site itself is chocked full of misunderstandings and passages being taken out of context. If you truly want to understand the bible, including all the relevant context, pick up a copy of the New Jerusalem Bible. It's fully annotated and one of, if not the most accurate translation available.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Andrew Michaels

Also, I'm not sure if this is an official philosophical stance, but I remember a few years back reading "A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man." In it, he, for a time, chooses a stance, which may have been in Latin, which meant "I shall not serve," or some such.

I haven't read this myself, but some bouncing around on the Internet got me this:

"I will tell you what I will do and what I will not do. I will not serve that in which I no longer believe, whether it call itself my home, my fatherland, or my church: and I will try to express myself in some mode of life or art as freely as I can and as wholly as I can, using for my defence the only arms I allow myself to use — silence, exile and cunning."

And I would call it indicative of the "quest for autonomy", as termed by Wikipedia.
A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Liara Covert]

Nahum 1:2 A jealous and avenging God is the LORD; The LORD
Nahum 1: 2 (and parallel translations)

SparkNotes: A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man: Glossary of Words and Latin Phrases
Glossary of Words & Latin Phrases from Portait of An Artist as a Young Man

[Megan]

Exodus 15:6 Thy right hand, O LORD, is become glorious in power: thy right hand, O LORD, hath dashed in pieces the enemy.

Exodus 15:7 And in the greatness of thine excellency thou hast overthrown them that rose up against thee: thou sentest forth thy wrath, which consumed them as stubble.

Exo 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

Exo 22:19 Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.

Exo 22:20 He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

Exo 22:21 Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Exo 22:22 Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child.

Exo 22:23 If thou afflict them in any wise, and they cry at all unto me, I will surely hear their cry;

Exo 22:24 And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.

Exo 32:10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.

Exo 32:11 And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand?

Exo 32:12 Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people.

Numbers 11:33 And while the flesh was yet between their teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of the LORD was kindled against the people, and the LORD smote the people with a very great plague.

Num 16:46 And Moses said unto Aaron, Take a censer, and put fire therein from off the altar, and put on incense, and go quickly unto the congregation, and make an atonement for them: for there is wrath gone out from the LORD; the plague is begun.

Deuteronomy 9:7 Remember, and forget not, how thou provokedst the LORD thy God to wrath in the wilderness: from the day that thou didst depart out of the land of Egypt, until ye came unto this place, ye have been rebellious against the LORD.

Deu 9:8 Also in Horeb ye provoked the LORD to wrath, so that the LORD was angry with you to have destroyed you.

Deu 9:22 And at Taberah, and at Massah, and at Kibrothhattaavah, ye provoked the LORD to wrath.

Deu 11:17 And then the LORD'S wrath be kindled against you, and he shut up the heaven, that there be no rain, and that the land yield not her fruit; and lest ye perish quickly from off the good land which the LORD giveth you.

Deu 29:23 And that the whole land thereof is brimstone, and salt, and burning, that it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein, like the overthrow of Sodom, and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim, which the LORD overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath:

Deu 29:28 And the LORD rooted them out of their land in anger, and in wrath, and in great indignation, and cast them into another land, as it is this day.

1 Samuel 28:18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day.

2 Kings 22:13 Go ye, enquire of the LORD for me, and for the people, and for all Judah, concerning the words of this book that is found: for great is the wrath of the LORD that is kindled against us, because our fathers have not hearkened unto the words of this book, to do according unto all that which is written concerning us.

2 Ki 22:17 Because they have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods, that they might provoke me to anger with all the works of their hands; therefore my wrath shall be kindled against this place, and shall not be quenched.

2Ki 23:26 Notwithstanding the LORD turned not from the fierceness of his great wrath, wherewith his anger was kindled against Judah, because of all the provocations that Manasseh had provoked him withal.

2Chronicles 12:7 And when the LORD saw that they humbled themselves, the word of the LORD came to Shemaiah, saying, They have humbled themselves; therefore I will not destroy them, but I will grant them some deliverance; and my wrath shall not be poured out upon Jerusalem by the hand of Shishak.

2Ch 28:11 Now hear me therefore, and deliver the captives again, which ye have taken captive of your brethren: for the fierce wrath of the LORD is upon you.

2Ch 28:13 And said unto them, Ye shall not bring in the captives hither: for whereas we have offended against the LORD already, ye intend to add more to our sins and to our trespass: for our trespass is great, and there is fierce wrath against Israel.

2Ch 29:8 Wherefore the wrath of the LORD was upon Judah and Jerusalem, and he hath delivered them to trouble, to astonishment, and to hissing, as ye see with your eyes.

2Ch 29:10 Now it is in mine heart to make a covenant with the LORD God of Israel, that his fierce wrath may turn away from us.

2Ch 30:8 Now be ye not stiffnecked, as your fathers were, but yield yourselves unto the LORD, and enter into his sanctuary, which he hath sanctified for ever: and serve the LORD your God, that the fierceness of his wrath may turn away from you.

2Ch 32:25 But Hezekiah rendered not again according to the benefit done unto him; for his heart was lifted up: therefore there was wrath upon him, and upon Judah and Jerusalem.

Job 19:29: But now, be afraid of the sword--- the sword that brings God's wrath on sin, so that you will know there is one who judges.

Job 21:20: Let sinners bear their own punishment; let them feel the wrath of Almighty God.

etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc...............................................

Shucks...the Old Testament goes on forever on wrath.

Here's a sampling from the New Testament:

Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Rom 13:4 For he [the ruler] is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

1Thessalonians 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

1Th 2:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Rev 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.

Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Now you know where Jerry Fallwell gets his material.

I'll work on jealousy next, if I have the strength. Air, I need air...

[Megan]

Deuteronomy 4:24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.

Deu 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me, ...

Deu 6:15 (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth.

Joshua 24:19 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins.

Nahum 1:2 God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.

Zechariah 1:14 So the angel that communed with me said unto me, Cry thou, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with a great jealousy.

Zec 8:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I was jealous for Zion with great jealousy, and I was jealous for her with great fury.

Houston, we've got a problem...a theodicy problem....

[Acting Like Godot]

Also look out for the little anecdotes of 40-day floods; cities turning into salt; swarms of invading locusts; seven years of famine etc etc.

[Megan]

...well, actually...I am a Christian, but what can I say, it's easy to make the Bible look pretty darn ridiculous, I must admit.

I can do it pretty well my self--no match for ol' Tom Paine, you understand, but I can do a respectable job, don't you think?

[Rocket Surgery]

Originally Posted by Megan

...well, actually...I am a Christian, but what can I say, it's easy to make the Bible look pretty darn ridiculous, I must admit.

I can do it pretty well my self--no match for ol' Tom Paine, you understand, but I can do a respectable job, don't you think?

There's all kinds of Christians, Megan. Sounds like you're one of the rare kind that is able to filter out scripture from the Bible that conflicts with the true message of Jesus.

The real problem with religions, (especially the two "superpowers" of Islam and Christianity), is the inability of the fundamentalist factions within each to consider the possibility that their "holy" books may just be fallible after all.

~ RS

[Megan]

It's been a long journey, RS.